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Message no. 1
From: Vincent Pellerin <Vincent.Pellerin@***.GMC.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: My questions IV
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:22:00 -0500
I'm happy to see my questions are producing some argumentations.
Some peoples have ideas similar to my own, some very different, I beleive
this is what they ment when they said that magic work differently for each
mage, depending on is vision and belief.... it is the same thing with the
rules !!

Some peoples are making definitive statements (he ! they just know)
but are not making any argumentations or telling where they got this
knowledge.
Some are admitting they don't know or tell me of their house rules
(thanks), it is a little bit flattering to know that most these questions
don't have a straight definite answer written somewhere (i know there is the
page 110 of the gimoire, i will check it out this weekend), it certainly
proove me i'm not stupid.

I'll just continue to send the questions and see the the wet carp
fly around.

P.S. I know (now) that some of the future questions have their answer in the
neo-ana. guide to the awakened, please for these questions don't tell me the
answer is the naga. (well maybe for the others)...

Crash, boum, bang.......




SRII.138 Spell locks

When a spell is sustained by a spell lock or quickened,
can you still control it (ex. levitate item, magic finger).

*Yes
No

Does it count vs the maximum number of spell you can
sustain (you're not sustaining it but you are controlling it).

Yes
*No

It is said at the page 148 that a caster know when his
spell is been attacked and can allocate magic pool dice for its
defence. Does that include quickened, lock sustained, and
elementally sustained spells ?

Yes
No

SRII.140 Aid sorcery

If an fire elemental has the order to protect someone
from combat spell, are is dices used up only if a spell is cast or
as soon as they are allocated (see P85, magic pool), spell or no
spell to defend against ? (The same goes for the spellcasting,
does he wait for you to use is dices or must you specify when
you'll use them.)

*A)Only if a spell is cast
B)They are used when allocated (Better have a really good
timing eh!)


SRII.142 Spell sustaining

Where goes the elemental when sustaining a spell ?
A)He stay in LOS of the spell
*B)He goes back from wherever he came from and sustain it from
there


SRII.145 Astral perception

Can the astral perception be used as an enhanced vision?
It give a universal +2 on all physical action on any light
conditions. What would be the modifier for the mist, smoke,
fog and rain ?

Please specify

Can someone astrally perceiving be blinded by glare or flash
grenades, can he use laser sight ?

Yes
*No

Is someone astraly perceiving have is eyes closed ?

Yes
*No
Maybe (have no effect on the perception)

_________________________________________________________________________
| _______ "You are yong only once....... |
| \ \ / ......... but you can be immature all yourlife !"|
| \ ___/ / -heard somewhere, i don'tremember |
| \ / |
| \_/ Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca |
|________________________________________________________________________|
Message no. 2
From: Andrew <wadycki@********.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: My questions IV
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:41:21 -0600
On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, Vincent Pellerin wrote:

> SRII.138 Spell locks
>
> When a spell is sustained by a spell lock or quickened,
> can you still control it (ex. levitate item, magic finger).
>
> *Yes
> No

I would say yes for spell locks, you may have to "restart" the lock, but
otherwise you should have control. For quickened, I am not sure,
quickening seems to be more of a self sustained spell, that isn't
connected to the mage anymore, so I think I would say no.

> Does it count vs the maximum number of spell you can
> sustain (you're not sustaining it but you are controlling it).
>
> Yes
> *No

Unless I missed something in the early discussions, there is not a limit
to the spells you can sustain, they just keep adding a +2 to your target
numbers.

> It is said at the page 148 that a caster know when his
> spell is been attacked and can allocate magic pool dice for its
> defence. Does that include quickened, lock sustained, and
> elementally sustained spells ?
>
> Yes
> No

This one I would have to look at, but if the spell is on you, then your
defenxe covers it. Wait, how can you use spell defense to protect a
spell from a spell attack? The spells fight it out in astral space and
defense dice don't matter.

> SRII.140 Aid sorcery
>
> If an fire elemental has the order to protect someone
> from combat spell, are is dices used up only if a spell is cast or
> as soon as they are allocated (see P85, magic pool), spell or no
> spell to defend against ? (The same goes for the spellcasting,
> does he wait for you to use is dices or must you specify when
> you'll use them.)
>
> *A)Only if a spell is cast
> B)They are used when allocated (Better have a really good
> timing eh!)

Wrong logic here too. Aid sorcery adds, to the spell or pool, i forget.
If the elemental has orders to protect someone, then it would fight the
spell astrally.

> SRII.142 Spell sustaining
>
> Where goes the elemental when sustaining a spell ?
> A)He stay in LOS of the spell
> *B)He goes back from wherever he came from and sustain it from
> there

I'd say he is like melded with the spell and is sustaining it that way.
So maybe you could take out the spell or the elemental, it would be a
slightly merged aura.

> SRII.145 Astral perception
>
> Can the astral perception be used as an enhanced vision?
> It give a universal +2 on all physical action on any light
> conditions. What would be the modifier for the mist, smoke,
> fog and rain ?
>
> Please specify
>
> Can someone astrally perceiving be blinded by glare or flash
> grenades, can he use laser sight ?
>
> Yes
> *No

I would say no glare or visual mods, but also no laser sight. So you can
have a +2 and nothing else (and wounds though). You also have the
benefits of seeing invis creatures and knowing the mages and stuff like that.

> Is someone astraly perceiving have is eyes closed ?
>
> Yes
> *No
> Maybe (have no effect on the perception)

In most stories, the eyes roll back or close or something. I would say
there is something happening, either closed eyes, or (what I would like)
a slight glow to the eyes.

Hope this helps.

-Andrew
Message no. 3
From: An Unofficial Shadowrun Guru Named Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: My questions IV
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 12:11:53 +0200
> When a spell is sustained by a spell lock or quickened,
>can you still control it (ex. levitate item, magic finger).
>
> *Yes

If you couldn't, what would be the point of locking such a spell?

> Does it count vs the maximum number of spell you can
>sustain (you're not sustaining it but you are controlling it).
>
> *No

Is there a maximum number of spells? I though it simple was +2 TN per spell
you sustain. And no, I don't think each spell lock adds +2 to the TN for
casting other spells -- the lock sustains it so the magician doesn't have to.

> It is said at the page 148 that a caster know when his
>spell is been attacked and can allocate magic pool dice for its
>defence. Does that include quickened, lock sustained, and
>elementally sustained spells ?
>
> Yes

You can allocate spell defense to anything in your LOS as far as I'm aware.

> Can the astral perception be used as an enhanced vision?
> It give a universal +2 on all physical action on any light
> conditions. What would be the modifier for the mist, smoke,
> fog and rain ?

If you can live with the +2 instead of +8 for total darkness, I'd say yes.

> Is someone astraly perceiving have is eyes closed ?

Yes or no, depends on the person. In the SR1 opening story, Sally closes her
eyes to astrally perceive, but I feel it could be done equally well with
open eyes.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'm not like them. But I can pretend.
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 4
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: My questions IV
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 21:29:34 +1000
Vincent Pellerin writes:

> When a spell is sustained by a spell lock or quickened,
> can you still control it (ex. levitate item, magic finger).

I would certainly assume so. Else there would be little point in doing it.
All a spell lock/quickening does is remove the burden of sustaining the
spell from the caster, it has no other effects, so I'd say the caster could
control the spell as per normal.

> Does it count vs the maximum number of spell you can
> sustain (you're not sustaining it but you are controlling it).

I'd say no, since in the description of the spell lock it says "...allowing
the spell to be sustained without the casting magician's concentration or
concern." The magician does not need do sustain the spell himself, hence it
does not count towards the maximum number of spells he can have sustained.

> It is said at the page 148 that a caster know when his
> spell is been attacked and can allocate magic pool dice for its
> defence. Does that include quickened, lock sustained, and
> elementally sustained spells ?

Quickened and elementally sustained spells yes, but spell locked ones, no.
An attack on a spell locked spell is made against the lock, not the spell (pg
148 SRII).

> If an fire elemental has the order to protect someone
> from combat spell, are is dices used up only if a spell is cast or
> as soon as they are allocated (see P85, magic pool), spell or no
> spell to defend against ? (The same goes for the spellcasting,
> does he wait for you to use is dices or must you specify when
> you'll use them.)

I take it what you are doing here is using a remote service, and specifying
that the elemental has to protect "x" from spells? Hmm, this is a doozey.
I'd have to say it couldn't be done myself, since the Aid Sorcery service
would be what you were using to protect the individual, but to make use of
the Aid Sorcery you need to have a Magic Pool. So unless the individual has
a Magic Pool (in which case why do they need the elemental anyhow?) then
it wouldn't work. But I don't really know, since "protect Jim from spells"
sounds like a good use of an elemental, it's just that I can't see how to
make it happen using the rules as they are.

> Where goes the elemental when sustaining a spell ?

He hangs around in astral space somewhere. Note that when I say astral space
I mean the etheric plane, not the metaplanes. I say this because to demand a
service of an elemental, the mage needs to command it to appear. It appears,
and stays in astral space by preference. So that while it is carrying out
services it needs to be either on the etheric, or the physical planes.

> Can the astral perception be used as an enhanced vision?
> It give a universal +2 on all physical action on any light
> conditions. What would be the modifier for the mist, smoke,
> fog and rain ?

I'd give no modifier for darkness or glare (except the universal +2 for
physical actions and activities for astrally perceiving). But for water and
flame (eg rain and smoke) I'd use the table on pg 88 of the Grimything.
Based on this, mist, smoke, fog, rain etc would not rate modifiers (since
the lowest modifier is +1 and that's for 50m depth water). Smoke might,
since an open flame has a visibility modifier of +2 on the astral, so you
could easily say smoke has a +1.

> Can someone astrally perceiving be blinded by glare or flash
> grenades, can he use laser sight ?

No, since he does not see real, physical light, so he is not affected by it.
Since laser sights are light based, he couldn't see the dots.

> Is someone astraly perceiving have is eyes closed ?

Yes, he could. I base this on the fact that "Assensing is the sixth sense
that allows perception of magical energy and astral form." (pg 145 SRII). It
is another sense that the magician has, so there is no requirement for his
eyes to be open (or even there). I'll clarify that last bit by giving the
example of the magician in one of the early SR modules (Dream Chipper
perhaps?) who was blind, but could still astrally perceive.

--
Damion Milliken Nominee for the title of _Shadowrun Guru_ adm82@***.edu.au

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Message no. 5
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: My questions IV
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:41:38 +0200
> SRII.138 Spell locks
>
> When a spell is sustained by a spell lock or quickened,
> can you still control it (ex. levitate item, magic finger).
>
> *Yes
> No

Sure, why not? This does have some weird quirks though as some spells
restrict themselves to only one target. Like Mind Probe for example probes
only one individual only once :)

> Does it count vs the maximum number of spell you can
> sustain (you're not sustaining it but you are controlling it).
>
> Yes
> *No

If you are not sustaining it why should it count ? :)
So the answer is No.

> It is said at the page 148 that a caster know when his
> spell is been attacked and can allocate magic pool dice for its
> defence. Does that include quickened, lock sustained, and
> elementally sustained spells ?
>
> Yes
> No

This goes for quickened spells, is irrelevant for locked spells
(by the time you'd feel it, they are gone) and doesnt include elementally
sustained spells.

> SRII.140 Aid sorcery
>
> If an fire elemental has the order to protect someone
> from combat spell, are is dices used up only if a spell is cast or
> as soon as they are allocated (see P85, magic pool), spell or no
> spell to defend against ? (The same goes for the spellcasting,
> does he wait for you to use is dices or must you specify when
> you'll use them.)
>
> *A)Only if a spell is cast
> B)They are used when allocated (Better have a really good
> timing eh!)

Only if a spell is cast, however if someone decides to use this as
a backup spell defence he can fall back to anytime he feels down :)
I'd rule that the force of the elemental drops (just as per the sustain
spell power) one point a day.

> SRII.142 Spell sustaining
>
> Where goes the elemental when sustaining a spell ?
> A)He stay in LOS of the spell
> *B)He goes back from wherever he came from and sustain it from
> there

It stays around in the astral. This has the added advantage that it also
protects the spell for astral attackers (well as long as he has a respectable
rating).

> SRII.145 Astral perception
>
> Can the astral perception be used as an enhanced vision?
> It give a universal +2 on all physical action on any light
> conditions. What would be the modifier for the mist, smoke,
> fog and rain ?

Definitely - you would have a +2 penalty for all non-magical
actions and no penalty for the use of magic. OTOH this makes you vulnerable
to astral attacks. Mist, smoke, fog etc. would give you no extra modifiers.

> Please specify
> Can someone astrally perceiving be blinded by glare or flash
> grenades, can he use laser sight ?
>
> Yes
> *No

Definitely no, on both acounts. One doesnt use his physical eyes when
perceiving.

> Is someone astraly perceiving have is eyes closed ?
>
> Yes
> *No
> Maybe (have no effect on the perception)

Already answered.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

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Message no. 6
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: My questions IV
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:57:31 +0200
> > Does it count vs the maximum number of spell you can
> > sustain (you're not sustaining it but you are controlling it).
> >
> > Yes
> > *No
>
> Unless I missed something in the early discussions, there is not a limit
> to the spells you can sustain, they just keep adding a +2 to your target
> numbers.

Your Sorcery is the limit.

> > SRII.140 Aid sorcery
> >
> > If an fire elemental has the order to protect someone
> > from combat spell, are is dices used up only if a spell is cast or
> > as soon as they are allocated (see P85, magic pool), spell or no
> > spell to defend against ? (The same goes for the spellcasting,
> > does he wait for you to use is dices or must you specify when
> > you'll use them.)
> >
> > *A)Only if a spell is cast
> > B)They are used when allocated (Better have a really good
> > timing eh!)
>
> Wrong logic here too. Aid sorcery adds, to the spell or pool, i forget.
> If the elemental has orders to protect someone, then it would fight the
> spell astrally.

Correct, but someone could still order an elemental to "protect him from
a combat spell" when he is in no danger and use this as a backup defence.
So that the elemental attacks the next spell cast on him - even if thats
in two weeks from now.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 7
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: My questions IV
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 02:44:41 -6200
An Unofficial Shadowrun Guru Named Gurth writes:

> Is there a maximum number of spells? I though it simple was +2 TN per spell
> you sustain. And no, I don't think each spell lock adds +2 to the TN for
> casting other spells -- the lock sustains it so the magician doesn't have to.

pg 128 SRII "A magician may simultaneously sustain a maximum number of
spells equal to his Sorcery skill."

> You can allocate spell defense to anything in your LOS as far as I'm aware.

Providing it is on the same plane as you. This works fine for spell locks,
but not the others. However, the others fall under the catagory of spells on
the astral, and are therefore affected by the rules on pg 148, which says
that the caster of a spell may allocate Magic Pool dice to assist the spell
in astral combat.

--
Damion Milliken Nominee for the title of _Shadowrun Guru_ adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
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Message no. 8
From: Andrew <wadycki@********.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: My questions IV
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:58:53 -0600
On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:

> > > Does it count vs the maximum number of spell you can
> > > sustain (you're not sustaining it but you are controlling it).
> > >
> > > Yes
> > > *No
> >
> > Unless I missed something in the early discussions, there is not a limit
> > to the spells you can sustain, they just keep adding a +2 to your target
> > numbers.
>
> Your Sorcery is the limit.

Must have been one of those things changed from 1st edition and never
came into play. I don't know how many people actually ever get close to
that limit.

> > > SRII.140 Aid sorcery
> > >
> > > If an fire elemental has the order to protect someone
> > > from combat spell, are is dices used up only if a spell is cast or
> > > as soon as they are allocated (see P85, magic pool), spell or no
> > > spell to defend against ? (The same goes for the spellcasting,
> > > does he wait for you to use is dices or must you specify when
> > > you'll use them.)
> > >
> > > *A)Only if a spell is cast
> > > B)They are used when allocated (Better have a really good
> > > timing eh!)
> >
> > Wrong logic here too. Aid sorcery adds, to the spell or pool, i forget.
> > If the elemental has orders to protect someone, then it would fight the
> > spell astrally.
>
> Correct, but someone could still order an elemental to "protect him from
> a combat spell" when he is in no danger and use this as a backup defence.
> So that the elemental attacks the next spell cast on him - even if thats
> in two weeks from now.

As long as you 14 services, if it is hanging around it has a number of
days equal to its services. My point was the whole "dice" allocation is
never used in such a setup.

-Andrew
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: My questions IV
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 11:35:12 +0200
> Correct, but someone could still order an elemental to "protect him from
>a combat spell" when he is in no danger and use this as a backup defence.
>So that the elemental attacks the next spell cast on him - even if thats
>in two weeks from now.

He'd have to have 15+ services from the elemental in that case -- every 24
hours spent performing a single, continual service counts as one service.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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