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Message no. 1
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Mysticism
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:26:40 +0200
(Snip Steve's Q about Mystical Magic)
>>
>>
>This is something, as I said in my principle response to Steve's Post, is
>that much of the magic in SR has a big basis upon what many people (read as
>New Agers, Pagan Believers, Druidic "Sur"-Cults, Neoshamanic Practices) base
>as their belief in magic and how magic should or should not work.
>
>-K
>
Being one of the people that started this whole mysticism thread let me give
some examples of my gripes for a pleasant change. :)

The SRII magic system falls down not in it's mechanics (an entirely
different debate) but in the feeling that it is so much more scientific and
clinical than a living art should be. Remember one of the most popular
explanations of what magic is. "The art and science of...blah blah blah"

Now I'm not a new age hippy or esoteric weirdo but I'd like a little more
art and a lot less science in my SRIII magic if thats possible please Mr
Kenson.:)

Starting of right at Ground Zero.

1) Just how common is Magic? Are people used to its effects and manifestations.
The basic rule book should pay attention, not lip service to the
realities of
"supernatural" occurences. I know that this has been adressed in (I think)
Awakenings but I WANT MORE!!!!!

2) The Naming of Names.
Powerbolt? Wrecker? Control Actions? I understand that many pioneering
magicians were hermetic corporates, but what about the pioneering GhostDance
shamans. Surely these two rather diverse groups would have come up with
different ways of utilizing their Magic not to mention what they would call
these expressions. (Pause to commit list reputation suicide) I like what WW
has done naming the abilities that their World of Darkness Chars get.
Cloak the Gathering for I dunno Invisibility? Please look into renaming
the spells to lend an air of mystery to spellcasters.

3) Spiritual Influence

Are there evil spirits that want more power on this plane that bargains
can be struck with? clarify what spirits can do please. How smart are
spirits? what is on the meta planes? Give magic users some more options
that dont include -1 to T# and +1 to what ever. Some flavour abilities
or connections that can be used by smart chars in smart ways. I realise
that FASA wants to keeps this game open to all ages but lets face facts,
If you dont like a rule or an entire game then hell don't play/use/buy
the darn thing.

I'll post more when I can think of more

Thats me , Thanks



>>>>>>BRUCE
"Dont hit me, I just drive the car!"
-Sharkboy, our Rigger to peeved razorgal<<<<<<<
Message no. 2
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:34:02 -0500
You wrote:
> 1) Just how common is Magic? Are people used to its effects and manifestations.
> The basic rule book should pay attention, not lip service to the
> realities of
> "supernatural" occurences. I know that this has been adressed in (I
think)
> Awakenings but I WANT MORE!!!!!
'realities' of supernatural occurrences? I think that area is a little too
murky to say it would be easy to treat in an RPG book that has a lot of other
material to cover in 300 pages, and I thought Awakenings did a fine job, and if
you want more you have nothing holding you back from digging it up or inventing
it on your own...

> 2) The Naming of Names.
> Powerbolt? Wrecker? Control Actions? I understand that many pioneering
> magicians were hermetic corporates, but what about the pioneering GhostDance
> shamans.
So give them different names. Why shouldn't shamans and mages be able to cast
spells with the same effects? Magic, at its heart, works the same for everyone
who casts spells and summons, the specifics vary a bit and spell choice varies.

> Cloak the Gathering for I dunno Invisibility? Please look into renaming
> the spells to lend an air of mystery to spellcasters.
Oh, come on. They tried to make the spell names obviously state what the spell
does as simply as possible. It's not a very big deal to come up with more
'mystical' names if you need them, and I figure the char's prolly use other
names anyway. (cf. Ars Magica if you really want mystical names)

> 3) Spiritual Influence
> Are there evil spirits that want more power on this plane that bargains
> can be struck with?
Yes, they're called Free Spirits.

clarify what spirits can do please. How smart are
> spirits? what is on the meta planes? Give magic users some more options
> that dont include -1 to T# and +1 to what ever. Some flavour abilities
> or connections that can be used by smart chars in smart ways. I realise
> that FASA wants to keeps this game open to all ages but lets face facts,
> If you dont like a rule or an entire game then hell don't play/use/buy
> the darn thing.
These are much better off being created by gaming groups than FASA, since they
won't please everyone with their versions. Doing it yourself, you get exactly
what you want.

losthalo
Message no. 3
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mysticism
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:48:04 -0800
At 11:26 7/9/97 +0200, Bruce wrote:
>1) Just how common is Magic? Are people used to its effects and
manifestations.
> The basic rule book should pay attention, not lip service to the
realities of
> "supernatural" occurences. I know that this has been adressed in (I
think)
> Awakenings but I WANT MORE!!!!!

I have a page at http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/working_world.html
that speculates on a lot of this. Based on statistics, magicans are about
half as common as doctors, and Adepts about twice as common. (On that page,
I have a lot of speculation on jobs that various magicians and adepts hold.)

>2) The Naming of Names.
> Powerbolt? Wrecker? Control Actions? I understand that many pioneering
>magicians were hermetic corporates, but what about the pioneering GhostDance
>shamans. Surely these two rather diverse groups would have come up with
>different ways of utilizing their Magic not to mention what they would call
>these expressions.

Actually, I think it would be cool for it to be revealed that all the names
that we see in the books are the "street names" for the spells, and have
someone rattle off corporate and tribal names for them in a Shadowland
posting, ridiculing the pomposity of the spell names...

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 4
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:49:25 -0700
| >2) The Naming of Names.
| > Powerbolt? Wrecker? Control Actions? I understand that many
pioneering
| >magicians were hermetic corporates, but what about the pioneering
GhostDance
| >shamans. Surely these two rather diverse groups would have come up with
| >different ways of utilizing their Magic not to mention what they would
call
| >these expressions.

Now this I wasn't too worried about because we had been renaming spells
since day one, but the way they were in the book were clear and descriptive
and therefore useful.

| Actually, I think it would be cool for it to be revealed that all the
names
| that we see in the books are the "street names" for the spells, and have
| someone rattle off corporate and tribal names for them in a Shadowland
| posting, ridiculing the pomposity of the spell names...

This however I like!!!!

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
Message no. 5
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mysticism
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:13:42 +0000
On 9 Jul 97 at 9:48, Max Rible wrote:

> Actually, I think it would be cool for it to be revealed that all the names
> that we see in the books are the "street names" for the spells, and have
> someone rattle off corporate and tribal names for them in a Shadowland
> posting, ridiculing the pomposity of the spell names...

Hey now, I like that.

--

=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
Message no. 6
From: Jerry Hill <agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:11:18 +0000
> are spirits? what is on the meta planes? Give magic users some

Well, much as many people here don't seem to like the WW system, if
you can browse through a copy of thier Umbra book (the Umbra being
the spiritual world of the Garou) there are some very nice metaplanes
in there. Now, I haven't re-read that book in quite some time, so
I'm not too sure of how (or if) they would fit into the SR universe
of astral and metaplanes neatly, but it seems like a great starting
place.


------------------------------------------------
Jerry Hill agh60070@*******.cc.ucf.edu
Message no. 7
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:55:02 EST
> Well, much as many people here don't seem to like the WW system, if
> you can browse through a copy of thier Umbra book (the Umbra being
> the spiritual world of the Garou) there are some very nice
> metaplanes in there. Now, I haven't re-read that book in quite some
> time, so I'm not too sure of how (or if) they would fit into the SR
> universe of astral and metaplanes neatly, but it seems like a great
> starting place.

For specific Metaplanes, Yeah, sure. Shadowland had a similar
article recently giving a few others I liked. WW's Umbra, however,
is pretty bloody inconsistent, and just doesn't fit into the SR
theme.
Message no. 8
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:28:28 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-10 10:36:00 EDT, agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU (Jerry
Hill) writes:

> > are spirits? what is on the meta planes? Give magic users some
>
> Well, much as many people here don't seem to like the WW system, if
> you can browse through a copy of thier Umbra book (the Umbra being
> the spiritual world of the Garou) there are some very nice metaplanes
> in there. Now, I haven't re-read that book in quite some time, so
> I'm not too sure of how (or if) they would fit into the SR universe
> of astral and metaplanes neatly, but it seems like a great starting
> place.
>
>
Well actually, I can think of other directions for varieties of
Metaplanes...how about the Land of the Dead for a Metaplane of Man? We've
done it and brought in the entire Egyptian mythoi as Icons.

Also, how about a few more developments on the Metaplanar assistance
level...our argument here is that "the Universe is Infinite in it's
diversity, should it not also therefore be Infinite in it's Expression?"
-K

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Mysticism, you may also be interested in:

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