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Message no. 1
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:32:16 +1000
According to page 184 of SR3, "A shaman leaves a nature spirit's domain,
any remaining services the spirit owes are canceled. The spirit will
fulfill any services requested before the shaman left the domain, in which
case the spirit remains until the last service is complete or until the
next sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first." Now, am I reading this
right? A shaman, standing on an forested mountain can summon up say a
mountain spirit order it to attack whomeve, then change domains by shifting
his attention, summon up a forest spirit order it to attack whomever, and
then finally switch domains again and summon up a wind spirit and order it
to do the same thing. I know what it says, I know what it means, but it
seems a little hinky to me. What do you all think?

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."
Message no. 2
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:02:32 -0500
----------
> From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
>
> According to page 184 of SR3, "A shaman leaves a nature spirit's
domain,
> any remaining services the spirit owes are canceled. The spirit will
> fulfill any services requested before the shaman left the domain, in
which
> case the spirit remains until the last service is complete or until the
> next sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first."

<snip example>

Precisely. And as a note, for druids they stay 24 hours, which means you
do not piss off a druid in his home circle...

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and hands,
and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how to expand
the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 3
From: 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:08:57 -0400
>According to page 184 of SR3, "A shaman leaves a nature spirit's domain,
>any remaining services the spirit owes are canceled. The spirit will
>fulfill any services requested before the shaman left the domain, in which
>case the spirit remains until the last service is complete or until the
>next sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first." Now, am I reading this
>right? A shaman, standing on an forested mountain can summon up say a
>mountain spirit order it to attack whomeve, then change domains by shifting
>his attention, summon up a forest spirit order it to attack whomever, and
>then finally switch domains again and summon up a wind spirit and order it
>to do the same thing. I know what it says, I know what it means, but it
>seems a little hinky to me. What do you all think?

Yes, I'd say that right...and yes, I'd agree with your reservations about it.

Maybe take these few things into consideration:

A) You summon the Forest Spirit then you summon the Mountain Spirit.
OK...now this mountain has been here a LOOONG time...the forest not as
long...so maybe this Mountain Spirit is a bit resentful of the Forest
Spirit. He'll attack sure, but if you switch out of his domain, maybe
he'll just kind of sit back and see how the Forest Spirit does...if it gets
banished or disrupted, then he'll take his turn...etc etc. I don't think
I'd make different spirits all out and attack another one...but maybe some
spirits don't work well with others. I know I (as a PC) wouldn't want to
try getting a Fire and Water Elemental working together on anything!

B) To summon the Forest Spirit, you have to be in the forest region...if
it's dense enough...maybe you can't get enough of the sky to summon a Wind
Spirit. I don't like the description of just being able to switch your
perception to another domain...not without moving around a bit or
something. This really won't be too much of a hamper probably.

C) If someone gets carried away with this...limit mixed domain areas.
Either just have a mountain with some trees...not enough to be a Forest, or
use the above justifications.

--00DNA
<<Replication Terminated>>
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:16:42 -0600
Bob Tockley wrote:
/
/ According to page 184 of SR3, "A shaman leaves a nature spirit's domain,
/ any remaining services the spirit owes are canceled. The spirit will
/ fulfill any services requested before the shaman left the domain, in which
/ case the spirit remains until the last service is complete or until the
/ next sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first." Now, am I reading this
/ right? A shaman, standing on an forested mountain can summon up say a
/ mountain spirit order it to attack whomeve, then change domains by shifting
/ his attention, summon up a forest spirit order it to attack whomever, and
/ then finally switch domains again and summon up a wind spirit and order it
/ to do the same thing. I know what it says, I know what it means, but it
/ seems a little hinky to me. What do you all think?

Yep, that's the way it works.

Consider that the Shaman is on his home turf. Anyone on their home
turf can make themselves a serious obstacle.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 5
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:54:38 -0400
> According to page 184 of SR3, "A shaman leaves a nature spirit's
> domain,
> any remaining services the spirit owes are canceled. The spirit will
> fulfill any services requested before the shaman left the domain, in
> which
> case the spirit remains until the last service is complete or until
> the
> next sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first." Now, am I reading
> this
> right? A shaman, standing on an forested mountain can summon up say a
> mountain spirit order it to attack whomeve, then change domains by
> shifting
> his attention, summon up a forest spirit order it to attack whomever,
> and
> then finally switch domains again and summon up a wind spirit and
> order it
> to do the same thing. I know what it says, I know what it means, but
> it
> seems a little hinky to me. What do you all think?
>
Well, assuming you actually got into combat (or
whatever) in a triple domain area (kinda rare), and assuming you could
handle the drain from summoning three spirits worth having in any short
amount of time (I am assuming one per combat turn since you are making
them attack), and that the bad guys don't just wax you and deal with the
spirit later, and that the spirits all get along well enough to actually
attack effectively (as opposed to taking turns like extras in a Bruce
Lee movie), then yes its pretty powerful.
Message no. 6
From: Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:46:30 -0400
(snip)

> > next sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first." Now, am I reading
> > this
> > right? A shaman, standing on an forested mountain can summon up say a
> > mountain spirit order it to attack whomeve, then change domains by
> > shifting
> > his attention, summon up a forest spirit order it to attack whomever,
> > and
> > then finally switch domains again and summon up a wind spirit and
> > order it
> > to do the same thing. I know what it says, I know what it means, but
> > it
> > seems a little hinky to me. What do you all think?
> >
> Well, assuming you actually got into combat (or
> whatever) in a triple domain area (kinda rare), and assuming you could
> handle the drain from summoning three spirits worth having in any short
> amount of time (I am assuming one per combat turn since you are making
> them attack), and that the bad guys don't just wax you and deal with the
> spirit later, and that the spirits all get along well enough to actually
> attack effectively (as opposed to taking turns like extras in a Bruce
> Lee movie), then yes its pretty powerful.
>

O.K. I admit to being one of the poorest rules lawyers out there, but my
recollection is that a Shaman is limited to ONE spirit at a time. In order
to summon the second spirit he would have to wait for the first to
die/disapate. Thus, in order to summon forest spirit he would have to
dismiss the mountain spirit.

Unless the first spirit was specially summoned for a specific task and all
of his services were spent on that task. (Like when a hermetic summons an
elemental for remote service "guard my house").

But, like I said, I am a terrible rules lawyer, so let the THWACKING
commence.

- Kama
Message no. 7
From: 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:11:47 -0400
>O.K. I admit to being one of the poorest rules lawyers out there, but my
>recollection is that a Shaman is limited to ONE spirit at a time. In order
>to summon the second spirit he would have to wait for the first to
>die/disapate. Thus, in order to summon forest spirit he would have to
>dismiss the mountain spirit.

I think that was probably in regards to 1 spirit in 1 domain. I'm pretty
sure you're right. That you can't have control of more than one spirit...I
don't know where it says that though.
But...it does say, at least in SR3, that a spirit will continue to perform
its duties you assigned to it if you leave it's domain. So, for an area
with overlapping domains, you summon one spirit, tell it to bust up some
guys, switch your perception to the other domain which leaves this spirit
from your control but it still performs its action, and then you summon
another spirit in the other domain. So you never have control of more than
1 spirit.

--00DNA
<<Replication Terminated>>
Message no. 8
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:25:29 -0400
Kama wrote:
>
> O.K. I admit to being one of the poorest rules lawyers out there, but my
> recollection is that a Shaman is limited to ONE spirit at a time. In order
> to summon the second spirit he would have to wait for the first to
> die/disapate. Thus, in order to summon forest spirit he would have to
> dismiss the mountain spirit.

Close. The shaman is limited to one *domain* at a time. He could summon
two forest spirits at once, but if he wanted to summon a mountain spirit
the two forest spirits would be dismissed and their remaining services
rendered null and void, just as your example states.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 9
From: Trunks Ryuko <trunks@********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in Combat
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:16:45 -0400
I believe that smaller domains take precedence over larger ones and I am
inclined to say that without leaving the smaller domain, you can not
access the larger one. IE: A person in a forest on a mountain. While you
are in the forest, it is forest domain, but if you leave the forestted
area, you are then in the mountain domain. Am I making sense or do I need
another dose of CRACK (tm) again? :)

-James
trunks@********.org
Message no. 10
From: William Ashe <wmashe@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:15:03 -0700
<Big Snip>
>/ According to page 184 of SR3, "A shaman leaves a nature spirit's domain,
>/ any remaining services the spirit owes are canceled. The spirit will


o.k. In SR2 that little problem was solved by allowing only one spirit to be
conjured at a time. That meant (at least as how I read it) the first spirit
would have to be dismissed or destroyed. If the spirit is still around
doing mean things to his target then the shaman is SOL in the next domain.
Did SR3 change that?

Regards
Bright-Light
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:40:40 +0200
According to Kama, at 15:46 on 8 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> O.K. I admit to being one of the poorest rules lawyers out there, but my
> recollection is that a Shaman is limited to ONE spirit at a time. In order
> to summon the second spirit he would have to wait for the first to
> die/disapate. Thus, in order to summon forest spirit he would have to
> dismiss the mountain spirit.

Partly true, in that the mountain spirit will remain for as long as it has
an order it can carry out. So, if the shaman says "Attack those people
over there until they're all dead" and then switches to the sky to summon
another spirit, the mountain spirit will keep attacking. The shaman loses
all remaining services he or she had left from that spirit, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:40:41 +0200
According to Steve Eley, at 16:25 on 8 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> Close. The shaman is limited to one *domain* at a time. He could summon
> two forest spirits at once, but if he wanted to summon a mountain spirit
> the two forest spirits would be dismissed and their remaining services
> rendered null and void, just as your example states.

Also close. Any shaman can summon only one spirit per domain. Multiple
shamans can summon multiple spirits from the same domain, but no shaman
can have two or more spirits in the same domain.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:58:53 +1000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of Bob Tockley
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 1:32 AM
>
>
> right? A shaman, standing on an forested mountain can
> summon up say a
> mountain spirit order it to attack whomeve, then change
> domains by shifting
> his attention, summon up a forest spirit order it to attack
> whomever, and
> then finally switch domains again and summon up a wind
> spirit and order it
> to do the same thing. I know what it says, I know what it
> means, but it
> seems a little hinky to me. What do you all think?

I always thought that he was unable to shift his attention to that of
another domain in a shared domain while he had a spirit that he had
conjured from one of the sub-domain. To summon another spirit he
would have to let the first one go, or move to another place
physically.

NightRain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, |
| and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947
Message no. 14
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:27:49 -0400
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, NightRain wrote:

<snip mountain example>
->I always thought that he was unable to shift his attention to that of
->another domain in a shared domain while he had a spirit that he had
->conjured from one of the sub-domain. To summon another spirit he
->would have to let the first one go, or move to another place
->physically.

I was under the understanding that any one location only has one
domain period (exception being wind or storm spirits, which aren't really
an exception since their domain is simply vertical of the others). The
smaller domain takes precendence over the larger one. If a shaman in a
small grove of trees on the top of a mountian was trying to summon a
spirit, he'd get a forest spirit. In order to summon a mountian spirit
(or whatever) he'd need to leave the forest. In order to summon a wind
spirit, there'd have to be wind (which is most of the time but I like to
frag with my players just prior to a fight) and relatively open sky (also
not in a forest, maybe a clearing).

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 15
From: 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:25:01 -0400
At 10:27 AM 9/10/98 -0400, Fixer wrote:

> I was under the understanding that any one location only has one
>domain period (exception being wind or storm spirits, which aren't really
>an exception since their domain is simply vertical of the others). The
>smaller domain takes precendence over the larger one. If a shaman in a
>small grove of trees on the top of a mountian was trying to summon a
>spirit, he'd get a forest spirit. In order to summon a mountian spirit
>(or whatever) he'd need to leave the forest. In order to summon a wind
>spirit, there'd have to be wind (which is most of the time but I like to
>frag with my players just prior to a fight) and relatively open sky (also
>not in a forest, maybe a clearing).

Sorry. I don't have the book on my right now, but it says (at least in
SR3) that multiple domains exist. All one has to do is change their
"perception" to another domain. The example given is a Forested Mountain.


--00DNA
<<Replication Terminated>>
Message no. 16
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:53:16 -0500
>> O.K. I admit to being one of the poorest rules lawyers out there, but
my
>> recollection is that a Shaman is limited to ONE spirit at a time. In
order
>> to summon the second spirit he would have to wait for the first to
>> die/disapate. Thus, in order to summon forest spirit he would have to
>> dismiss the mountain spirit.
>
>Close. The shaman is limited to one *domain* at a time. He could
summon
>two forest spirits at once, but if he wanted to summon a mountain
spirit
>the two forest spirits would be dismissed and their remaining services
>rendered null and void, just as your example states.


As an additional note, I would require the shaman in question to spend
an action "re-tuning" his focus to the aspect he wished to address
before summoning a spirit from the new domain.

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
Proud owner of #972
Message no. 17
From: Matthew Waddilove <matthew@*********.U-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:12:11 +0100
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, NightRain wrote:
>
><snip mountain example>
>->I always thought that he was unable to shift his attention to that of
>->another domain in a shared domain while he had a spirit that he had
>->conjured from one of the sub-domain. To summon another spirit he
>->would have to let the first one go, or move to another place
>->physically.
>
> I was under the understanding that any one location only has one
>domain period (exception being wind or storm spirits, which aren't really
>an exception since their domain is simply vertical of the others). The
>smaller domain takes precendence over the larger one. If a shaman in a
>small grove of trees on the top of a mountian was trying to summon a
>spirit, he'd get a forest spirit. In order to summon a mountian spirit
>(or whatever) he'd need to leave the forest. In order to summon a wind
>spirit, there'd have to be wind (which is most of the time but I like to
>frag with my players just prior to a fight) and relatively open sky (also
>not in a forest, maybe a clearing).
>


Again showing off that I now have SR3 and can quote from it.

SR3 Page 184 second coloumn 4th paragraph
"A shaman can only be in one domain at a time, even if multiple domains
exist in an area. If you are in an area of multiple domains, you must chose
which domain you are in. This affects which type of nature spirit you can
attempt to summon. If you chose to shift your attention to a different
domain, then you have "left" the previous domain. A shaman can only summon
one nature spirit in any given domain."

Hope this help clear this up.

yet again I can't say what it's like in SR2 as I don't have it here

-Matthew Waddilove
Happy because I got SR3, Atzlan, Bug City and Target: UCAS yesterday :)
Message no. 18
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:20:44 EDT
In a message dated 9/11/1998 4:08:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
matthew@*********.U-NET.COM writes:

<snipped the SR3 quote: YAY!!!>

> Hope this help clear this up.
>
> yet again I can't say what it's like in SR2 as I don't have it here

Actually folks, this is the -exact- same rules that existed in SR2, and the
example of the guy on the mountainside is in those rules. Might be in
Grimoire, but I can't say for sure.

-K
Message no. 19
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Nature Spirits in combat?
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:54:24 +1000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of NightRain
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 10:59 PM

> I always thought that he was unable to shift his attention
> to that of
> another domain in a shared domain while he had a spirit that he had
> conjured from one of the sub-domain. To summon another spirit he
> would have to let the first one go, or move to another place
> physically.

Upon re-reading the example in the magic section though it completely
dis-proves my above theory/opinion.

Oh well, I can't be right all the time :)

NightRain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, |
| and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947

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