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Message no. 1
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 22:10:47 -0600
I came up with a little gadget myself called nerve replacements. The
essence cost would be along the lines of 5.9 or even 6 (it replaces the
entire nervous system except the brain), but gives ungodly bonuses to
reaction and combat pool, something like rctn +10, +5D6 initiative.

The technical side would be that it replaces the nervous system with
metallic wires or even opticable, both of which send signals faster than
regular nerves, which rely on chemical interfaces. It would have an
electrical shock buffer to reduce the damage from electrical attacks to
normal, unless, of course, it uses opticable, which wouldn't conduct
electricity quite so well.

John IV aka John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geek Code 2.1
GM/S/O d H-(--) s+:+ !!g p0 au>+++ a18 w--(+) v+(*) C++++ US P? L- !3
E---- N- K W-- M+++ !V -po+ Y+>++ t++>+++@ 5-- j++@ R++>+++ G(''') tv
b+ D- B--- e+>+++ u--(+) h->++ f+ r---(*) n-(---) !y+
Message no. 2
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 16:46:16 +1000
John IV writes:

> I came up with a little gadget myself called nerve replacements. The
> essence cost would be along the lines of 5.9 or even 6 (it replaces the
> entire nervous system except the brain), but gives ungodly bonuses to
> reaction and combat pool, something like rctn +10, +5D6 initiative.
>
> The technical side would be that it replaces the nervous system with
> metallic wires or even opticable, both of which send signals faster than
> regular nerves, which rely on chemical interfaces. It would have an
> electrical shock buffer to reduce the damage from electrical attacks to
> normal, unless, of course, it uses opticable, which wouldn't conduct
> electricity quite so well.

Well, at first the idea sounds fine, but just think about it for a little.
Now, SR essence is related to buggering up natural neural pathways right?
Now, if you replaced _all_ neural portions of your body with cyber, then you
could add on as much new cyber as you liked, sinse you would never be removing
any more neural tissue. Hence you could get any cyber which wasn't in the brain
for free. If you just take a look at whats available, you will see that this
soon adds up to way more than 5.9 or 6. Therefore to replace the entire human
nervous system takes much more than 5.9 or 6 essense.

A question along these lines: If essense is reduced by
removal/replacement/conection to the nervous system, then why does bone
lacing cost essense? Likewise Dermal Armour. And probably others too.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+) !tv(--)@ b++ D+ B?
e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 3
From: Matt <mosbun@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 09:02:58 -0500
>Well, at first the idea sounds fine, but just think about it for a little.
>Now, SR essence is related to buggering up natural neural pathways right?

Not necessarily. The Tir Na nOg book has a Shadowtalk post that deals with
a possible theory about cyberware and Essence, having to do with an "Astral
Template" and how cyber/bioware deviates from this template.
In other words, according to one theory- it's not just how cyberware affects
the nervous system, but how it unnaturally changes the body as a whole.

>A question along these lines: If essense is reduced by
>removal/replacement/conection to the nervous system, then why does bone
>lacing cost essense? Likewise Dermal Armour. And probably others too.

See above.

Matt
Message no. 4
From: "Scott D. Peterson" <scpeters@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 01:09:58 -0600
On Fri, 9 Sep 1994, John Moeller wrote:

> I came up with a little gadget myself called nerve replacements. The
>
> The technical side would be that it replaces the nervous system with
> metallic wires or even opticable, both of which send signals faster than
> regular nerves, which rely on chemical interfaces. It would have an
> electrical shock buffer to reduce the damage from electrical attacks to
> normal, unless, of course, it uses opticable, which wouldn't conduct
> electricity quite so well.

Hey John just a thought but what happens to all of the hormones that have
a passive/active influence on the CNS. I like the idea but as with a lot
of the Shadowrun 'ware the operation/maintenance of the whole organism is
taken for example. Now I know that the tech is supposed to compensate but
could you immagine what happens to the nor-epinephrin reuptake at the
synapses if the cns doesnt signal for it. Sooner than later the organic
body would shut down since all of the synapses are hanging onto the
adrenalin. Unless the system you describe could find a way of dumping it
into the lymph nodes.

Sorry to get med-technical but some of the proposed ideas have a hard time
explaining how the compensate for the normal body functions. I have a
tendency of making sure to explain it to myself and my players so that
they (and I) know the limitations of what they drag into their bodies.

Laters Edge.
______________________________________________________________________________
CURR AHEE
Keep Up the Fire You Manchu Mother

Scott Peterson EMT-B (Candidate) US ARMY INFANTRY (Light) Ret.
<scpeters@****.edu>

....Watch your fire and check your targets.....
.....God is dead!....If there's a Hell I'll see you there.....
.....Scuse me but who said you could talk?.....
^
.....Flatline!..D-Fib...200 Joules.. /| ....Clear!!!!!!!!!
___________________________________ .__/ | ___________________________________
` |/
"
Message no. 5
From: "Scott D. Peterson" <scpeters@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 01:26:45 -0600
On Sat, 10 Sep 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> John IV writes:

> > The technical side would be that it replaces the nervous system with
> > metallic wires or even opticable, both of which send signals faster than
> > regular nerves, which rely on chemical interfaces. It would have an
> > electrical shock buffer to reduce the damage from electrical attacks to
> > normal, unless, of course, it uses opticable, which wouldn't conduct
> > electricity quite so well.
>
> Well, at first the idea sounds fine, but just think about it for a little.
> Now, SR essence is related to buggering up natural neural pathways right?
> Now, if you replaced _all_ neural portions of your body with cyber, then you
> could add on as much new cyber as you liked, sinse you would never be removing
> any more neural tissue. Hence you could get any cyber which wasn't in the brain
> for free. If you just take a look at whats available, you will see that this
> soon adds up to way more than 5.9 or 6. Therefore to replace the entire human
> nervous system takes much more than 5.9 or 6 essense.

Something else I forgot to mention. If all but the Brain is replaced (and
I'd hate to do the surgery) how does the Brain interpret the data.
Granted its all electrical but the CNS uses its own language and I doubt
that haveing 10% speak one lingo and the other 90% another would cause
lots of internal confusion. The shrinks would make lots of money as would
the neurologits but the PC's would be hating life i think.

My third bit.
Edge.

______________________________________________________________________________
CURR AHEE
Keep Up the Fire You Manchu Mother

Scott Peterson EMT-B (Candidate) US ARMY INFANTRY (Light) Ret.
<scpeters@****.edu>

....Watch your fire and check your targets.....
.....God is dead!....If there's a Hell I'll see you there.....
.....After this life every kid in America will want to be me.....

^
.....Flatline!..D-Fib...200 Joules.. /| ....Clear!!!!!!!!!
___________________________________ .__/ | ___________________________________
` |/
"
Message no. 6
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 17:44:28 +1000
Scott writes:

> Something else I forgot to mention. If all but the Brain is replaced (and
> I'd hate to do the surgery) how does the Brain interpret the data.
> Granted its all electrical but the CNS uses its own language and I doubt
> that haveing 10% speak one lingo and the other 90% another would cause
> lots of internal confusion. The shrinks would make lots of money as would
> the neurologits but the PC's would be hating life i think.

Well, in between all interactive cyber (anything requiring concious use by
the user, so not including bone lacing type things) there is the interface
connectors. Kind like the ftp connectors we use to link up to Mac systems,
and download to our unix system I guess. Anyway, these do all the command
switching. One could likewise argue that if somebody has a cyber arm, then
they have the 10% to 90% ratio too - just 'round the other way, and they
function OK.

How ever, with the idea (from whichever source book it was) about the
astral template, then the cns can be excluded from essense arguments, so
yeah, the shrinks woudl be having a field day with somebody like that -
assuming they could survive of course.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+) !tv(--)@ b++ D+ B?
e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 7
From: "Scott D. Peterson" <scpeters@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 04:09:05 -0600
On Sun, 11 Sep 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> Scott writes:
>
> > Something else I forgot to mention. If all but the Brain is replaced (and
> > I'd hate to do the surgery) how does the Brain interpret the data.
> > Granted its all electrical but the CNS uses its own language and I doubt
> > that haveing 10% speak one lingo and the other 90% another would cause
> > lots of internal confusion. The shrinks would make lots of money as would
> > the neurologits but the PC's would be hating life i think.
>
> Well, in between all interactive cyber (anything requiring concious use by
> the user, so not including bone lacing type things) there is the interface
> connectors. Kind like the ftp connectors we use to link up to Mac systems,
> and download to our unix system I guess. Anyway, these do all the command
> switching. One could likewise argue that if somebody has a cyber arm, then
> they have the 10% to 90% ratio too - just 'round the other way, and they
> function OK.

I realize that there are interfaces but the point of what i was saying was
the fact of the whole CNS save the brain was being converted and that the
processing _languages would be diferent. But as you suggest the
interfaces would deal with this. They just dont tell you about the
interface. I realize its infered but if it wasnt stated some rule mongers
may say that it wouldnt work. Im just trying to point out some of the
physiological aspects of the technology were dealing with and (heres the
fun part) the posiable weak links in it to which ambitious characters may
go to exploit these weakness's.:)

> How ever, with the idea (from whichever source book it was) about the
> astral template, then the cns can be excluded from essense arguments, so
> yeah, the shrinks woudl be having a field day with somebody like that -
> assuming they could survive of course.

No comment, since i ant read it:)

Edge

______________________________________________________________________________
CURR AHEE
Keep Up the Fire You Manchu Mother

Scott Peterson EMT-B (Candidate) US ARMY INFANTRY (Light) Ret.
<scpeters@****.edu>

....Watch your fire and check your targets.....
.....God is dead!....If there's a Hell I'll see you there.....
.....After this life every kid in America will want to be me.....

^
.....Flatline!..D-Fib...200 Joules.. /| ....Clear!!!!!!!!!
___________________________________ .__/ | ___________________________________
` |/
"
Message no. 8
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 21:57:21 -0600
On Sat, 10 Sep 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

[ delete stuff on Nerve Replacements ]
> > electricity quite so well.

[ delete part of response ]
> soon adds up to way more than 5.9 or 6. Therefore to replace the entire human
> nervous system takes much more than 5.9 or 6 essense.

I see your point. Nerve replacements would be expensive to the point of
being priceless or some sort of government prototype. You (not PC's)
could become a real cyborg.

> A question along these lines: If essense is reduced by
> removal/replacement/conection to the nervous system, then why does bone
> lacing cost essense? Likewise Dermal Armour. And probably others too.

It's not just the nervous system (from what I understand of the Behind
the Scenes section on getting cyberware mid-campaign), but it's the
invasiveness of the surgery required to put it in. True, Bone Lacing
doesn't get very near the nervous system, but it's very invasive to go
all the way down to the bone to alter it.

John IV aka John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geek Code 2.1
GM/S/O d H-(--) s+:+ !!g p0 au>+++ a18 w--(+) v+(*) C++++ US P? L- !3
E---- N- K W-- M+++ !V -po+ Y+>++ t++>+++@ 5-- j++@ R++>+++ G(''') tv
b+ D- B--- e+>+++ u--(+) h->++ f+ r---(*) n-(---) !y+
Message no. 9
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nerve Replacements (was: Re: Powered Armor)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 22:49:06 -0600
On Sun, 11 Sep 1994, Scott D. Peterson wrote:

> Sorry to get med-technical but some of the proposed ideas have a hard time
> explaining how the compensate for the normal body functions. I have a
> tendency of making sure to explain it to myself and my players so that
> they (and I) know the limitations of what they drag into their bodies.
>
> Laters Edge.
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> CURR AHEE

No problem. I mean, I'm not the medical expert. I pretty much assume
that everybody else knows more than I do about medicine. But about the
Nerve Rep. or any other cyberware, I assume that everything is accounted
for. It just makes it easier that way.

John IV aka John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geek Code 2.1
GM/S/O d H-(--) s+:+ !!g p0 au>+++ a18 w--(+) v+(*) C++++ US P? L- !3
E---- N- K W-- M+++ !V -po+ Y+>++ t++>+++@ 5-- j++@ R++>+++ G(''') tv
b+ D- B--- e+>+++ u--(+) h->++ f+ r---(*) n-(---) !y+

Further Reading

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