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Message no. 1
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: New Adept idea
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 23:03:38 +0000
Ok guys. I've had an idea for a new kind of magical adept. Let me know
about any problems you see with it, or if this idea has already been
posted. Also I have a few questions that maybe you guys can help me hash
out. Here goes:

Astral Adept

The Astral Adept has full access to the Astral Plane just like any
full magician. However, he cannot cast spells or conjure spirits. Astral
Perception and Projection are his only abilities. Though Initiates may
use the Masking abilities and travel through the Meta-Planes. These
adepts may use the Sorcery Skill for normal astral activities (ie.
astral combat, astral tracking, etc...), but spell casting (even in the
astral) is not possible. The Aura Reading Skill is also available as per
normal rules. Weapon foci is the only usable focus for an adept.
On the up side, Astral Adepts can survive longer periods in astral
space. Instead of losing 1 point of essence for every hour out of the
body, an adept will lose 1 point for every TWO hours. Essence still
returns at the rate of 1 point per minute while back in his physical
body.

Now for the question. Should the adept be allowed to roll against
drain instead of losing the 1 point of essence (at his choice)? How
would he go about this? (Number of hours in astral)Deadly drain code?
What do you think?

Later,
Doug
Message no. 2
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 09:10:38 +0200
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 09:10:34 +0200 (MET DST)

> Now for the question. Should the adept be allowed to roll against
> drain instead of losing the 1 point of essence (at his choice)? How
> would he go about this? (Number of hours in astral)Deadly drain code?
> What do you think?

First of all: I like the idea - this sounds like a good possibility to
me, but he HAS to lose essence just like "usual" magicians do. Adepts
only have access to certain areas of magic and they have the same
rules there as all magic users have.
So if they lose 1 points essence / hour everything is fine.

Bye...
Georg
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 10:49:38 +0200
>Weapon foci is the only usable focus for an adept.

Does this adept have the Magic Pool associated with his Sorcery skill, that
can be used against incoming spells? If so, how about a power focus?

> Now for the question. Should the adept be allowed to roll against
>drain instead of losing the 1 point of essence (at his choice)? How
>would he go about this? (Number of hours in astral)Deadly drain code?
>What do you think?

Sounds OK, maybe you should make it (hours astral + Background Count of area)D.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Some use for knowledge can always be found
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 4
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 01:58:56 +0000
On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, Georg Greve wrote:

> > Now for the question. Should the adept be allowed to roll against
> > drain instead of losing the 1 point of essence (at his choice)? How
> > would he go about this? (Number of hours in astral)Deadly drain code?
> > What do you think?
>
> First of all: I like the idea - this sounds like a good possibility to
> me, but he HAS to lose essence just like "usual" magicians do. Adepts
> only have access to certain areas of magic and they have the same
> rules there as all magic users have.
> So if they lose 1 points essence / hour everything is fine.

Ok. I'll buy that. (Guess I'm trying to get a bit munchkin, hu?) :)

>
> Bye...
> Georg
>

Thnx,
Doug
Message no. 5
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 02:06:13 +0000
On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >Weapon foci is the only usable focus for an adept.
>
> Does this adept have the Magic Pool associated with his Sorcery skill, that
> can be used against incoming spells? If so, how about a power focus?

I don't know. He can use the Sorcery skill for astral combat and such,
but I didn't know if using it for spell defense was going too far for an
adept who only has access to the astral plane.

> > Now for the question. Should the adept be allowed to roll against
> >drain instead of losing the 1 point of essence (at his choice)? How
> >would he go about this? (Number of hours in astral)Deadly drain code?
> >What do you think?
>
> Sounds OK, maybe you should make it (hours astral + Background Count of area)D.

Ok. What does everyone else think? I know this isn't normal for other
adepts, but I wanted to compensate for a perceived lack of power on my part.

> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

Thnx,
Doug
Message no. 6
From: Schreiner Thomas <schreini@**********.FH-AUGSBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 22:49:01 +0200
Georg Greve wrote:

> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 09:10:34 +0200 (MET DST)
>
> > Now for the question. Should the adept be allowed to roll against
> > drain instead of losing the 1 point of essence (at his choice)? How
> > would he go about this? (Number of hours in astral)Deadly drain code?
> > What do you think?
>
> First of all: I like the idea - this sounds like a good possibility to
> me, but he HAS to lose essence just like "usual" magicians do. Adepts
> only have access to certain areas of magic and they have the same
> rules there as all magic users have.
> So if they lose 1 points essence / hour everything is fine.
>
> Bye...
> Georg
>

But think of the phys. Adepts. They HAVE very special Powers that
could only be accessed by them and no regular mage can use it.
I like him/her too. I think this is a good idea because theese adepts
are best in astral guarding of persons/buildings and in the hands of a
good GM they could be very powerful (*evil GM grin*).

Survive your next session ...


-----------///----------------------------------------------------------------
/// Email: Schreini@**********.Fh-Augsburg.de
---------///------------------------------------------------------------------
\\\/// Use your Brain
------\XX/----------------------------------------- Clawfinger ---------------
Message no. 7
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 23:41:56 +0000
On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, Schreiner Thomas wrote:

> Georg Greve wrote:
> > First of all: I like the idea - this sounds like a good possibility to
> > me, but he HAS to lose essence just like "usual" magicians do. Adepts
> > only have access to certain areas of magic and they have the same
> > rules there as all magic users have.
> > So if they lose 1 points essence / hour everything is fine.
> >
> > Bye...
> > Georg
>
> But think of the phys. Adepts. They HAVE very special Powers that
> could only be accessed by them and no regular mage can use it.

Actually I was saving this idea for my "Psychic Adept". I'll post what I
have so far at a later date, once I have the astral guy rules fleshed out.

Isn't Shadowrun just the funnest game around? =)

Later,
Doug
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:15:48 +0200
>I don't know. He can use the Sorcery skill for astral combat and such,
>but I didn't know if using it for spell defense was going too far for an
>adept who only has access to the astral plane.

You designed the adept, so it's your choice :) If you say he doesn't have a
Magic Pool, I think it would be best for you to add that to the description,
to avoid confusion.

>> Sounds OK, maybe you should make it (hours astral + Background Count of
area)D.
>
>Ok. What does everyone else think? I know this isn't normal for other
>adepts, but I wanted to compensate for a perceived lack of power on my part.

I like this idea of being able to stay in astral space longer, though at a
risk. I do think you should make it one Essence point per hour, but with
that option of taking Drain instead of losing the point.
BTW, is the Drain physical or Stun? As a suggestion, how about: if the TN
for resisting the Drain is higher than the adept's Magic Attribute, it's
physical, otherwise it's Stun?

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Some use for knowledge can always be found
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 9
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 02:46:00 +0000
On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >I don't know. He can use the Sorcery skill for astral combat and such,
> >but I didn't know if using it for spell defense was going too far for an
> >adept who only has access to the astral plane.
>
> You designed the adept, so it's your choice :) If you say he doesn't have a
> Magic Pool, I think it would be best for you to add that to the description,
> to avoid confusion.

Ok. An Astral adept can make use of an Astral Magic Pool for spell defense
WHILE IN ASTRAL REALM ONLY. Other than that, he has full use of the Astral
Combat Pool and Initiates also gain the additional Astral Pool.

> I like this idea of being able to stay in astral space longer, though at a
> risk. I do think you should make it one Essence point per hour, but with
> that option of taking Drain instead of losing the point.
> BTW, is the Drain physical or Stun? As a suggestion, how about: if the TN
> for resisting the Drain is higher than the adept's Magic Attribute, it's
> physical, otherwise it's Stun?

Done. However, should I make the drain level Serious instead of Deadly?
Or would this make it too easy for him. On second though, If an adept
with Magic 6 stays in astral for more than 6 hours W/OUT taking the
temporary essence loss all this time, he deserves the punishent. Don't
you think? I think I'll stick with the (Hours + Background count)D.

One more question, does this temporary essense loss affect normal
magician's magic rating? I couldn't find any rules on this.

Thanks for your help on this. (Now just wait till I start posting my
ideas on the "Psychic Adept". Thats gonna take some REAL work. :>

Doug
Message no. 10
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 13:33:29 +0200
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 13:33:26 +0200 (MET DST)

> But think of the phys. Adepts. They HAVE very special Powers that
> could only be accessed by them and no regular mage can use it.
> I like him/her too. I think this is a good idea because theese adepts
> are best in astral guarding of persons/buildings and in the hands of a
> good GM they could be very powerful (*evil GM grin*).

Come on - this can't be serious. Physical Adepts are something TOTALLY
different. They have powers noone else has, but they don't have even
ONE of the powers the other magicial active characters have.

Bye...
Georg

P.S. Yea - I know they can buy Astral Perception which the others got,
but they have to BUY it for 1 Point of Magic - they don't have it
automatically.
Message no. 11
From: Schreiner Thomas <schreini@**********.FH-AUGSBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: New Adept Idea
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 00:09:01 +0200
Georg Greve wrote

> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 13:33:26 +0200 (MET DST)
>
> > But think of the phys. Adepts. They HAVE very special Powers that
> > could only be accessed by them and no regular mage can use it.
>
> Come on - this can't be serious. Physical Adepts are something TOTALLY
> different. They have powers noone else has, but they don't have even
> ONE of the powers the other magicial active characters have.
>
> Bye...
> Georg
>
> P.S. Yea - I know they can buy Astral Perception which the others got,
> but they have to BUY it for 1 Point of Magic - they don't have it
> automatically.
>

Sorry, but Phys Adepts can initate and use weaponfocilike regular
mages. Also the can loose magic points caused by a deadly wound. And of
course astral perception costs two points of Magic.


-----------///------------------------------------------------------
/// Email: Schreini@**********.Fh-Augsburg.de
---------///--------------------------------------------------------
\\\/// Never forget to smile ...
------\XX/----------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:09:33 +0200
>Done. However, should I make the drain level Serious instead of Deadly?

Deadly, I think -- let's not make it too easy on them :) Hey, I suddenly
thought of something: with what is this Drain resisted? Willpower? Magic?
Essence? I don't think you ever mentioned that...

>One more question, does this temporary essense loss affect normal
>magician's magic rating? I couldn't find any rules on this.

I don't think it's mentioned anywhere, but I'd say it doesn't affect the
Magic rating.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Will it ever be the same again?
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:09:45 +0200
>Come on - this can't be serious. Physical Adepts are something TOTALLY
>different. They have powers noone else has, but they don't have even
>ONE of the powers the other magicial active characters have.

Which isn't a reason why other kinds of magician couldn't get special powers
others can't have. Hell, IMHO it's a reason to _make_ magicians with
"unique" powers. Why should physads be the only kind of adept with
special/unique powers?

>P.S. Yea - I know they can buy Astral Perception which the others got,
>but they have to BUY it for 1 Point of Magic - they don't have it
>automatically.

2 points, actually :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Will it ever be the same again?
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 14
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 01:22:19 +0000
On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >Done. However, should I make the drain level Serious instead of Deadly?
>
> Deadly, I think -- let's not make it too easy on them :) Hey, I suddenly
> thought of something: with what is this Drain resisted? Willpower? Magic?
> Essence? I don't think you ever mentioned that...

Frag! I forgot all about that. Essence maybe? Since it is a matter of the
essence loss, I would think that it should be the current essence. That
way, it makes it harder for an adept to resist the drain when he has been
taking the essence loss for several hours. Makes for a good reason to get
back to his body in a hurry. No? [Evil GM-like grin] (Hey, I can't do
the real evil GM grin, since I'm no GM :)

Thanks for reminding me about resisting the drain.

Doug
Message no. 15
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:45:18 +0930
Georg Greve wrote:
<Beef about physads deleted...>
>
> P.S. Yea - I know they can buy Astral Perception which the others got,
> but they have to BUY it for 1 Point of Magic - they don't have it
> automatically.

Sorcery and Conjuring adepts can't even do that... The price of being an
adept is that you don't have the full range of powers of a full mage. At
least physads have unique powers.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 16
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:11:05 +0200
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:11:02 +0200 (MET DST)

> Which isn't a reason why other kinds of magician couldn't get special powers
> others can't have. Hell, IMHO it's a reason to _make_ magicians with
> "unique" powers. Why should physads be the only kind of adept with
> special/unique powers?

Sure, but these special powers shouldn't be something that exists
already. Look at all the adepts (sorcery, elemental a.s.o.) - they all
got a PART of the cake which full blooded magicians get as a whole
(Hey - that's what priorities are all about). So you shouldn't make an
adept that has access to a part of the cake in a BETTER way than the
usual magicians do. If you want to get that you would have to make
this a "priority A - adept". But there is no reason why you shouldn't
bae a "new cake" for another special adept. All you got to watch is,
that the adept has to be well balanced and he has to be weaker than
full blooded magicians, because he only used priority B for magic.

Bye...
Georg
Message no. 17
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: New Adept Idea
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:02:35 +0200
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:02:32 +0200 (MET DST)

> Sorry, but Phys Adepts can initate and use weaponfocilike regular
> mages. Also the can loose magic points caused by a deadly wound. And of
> course astral perception costs two points of Magic.

Come on - don't play dumb. Being able to intiate and being able to use
a weapon focus are no powers by itself.
But if you think the possibility of turning right with a car is a
POWER, then you could say that of course. I only think this would be
rather funny - just imagine: Q:"What special SUPERPOWERS do you have
?" A:"I can turn right with my car unfortunately I haven't got the
'turn left' Superpower yet.". *giggle* *laugh*
Being able to initiate and being able to use a weapon focus is no
POWER (and NO - the chance to loose magic attribute due to deadly
wounds is no power, too), it is a possibility.

Bye...
Georg

P.S. I hope I didn't stomp on your foot too heavily - I didn't want to
offend you...
Message no. 18
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 00:38:42 +0000
On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Georg Greve wrote:

> this a "priority A - adept". But there is no reason why you shouldn't
> bae a "new cake" for another special adept. All you got to watch is,
> that the adept has to be well balanced and he has to be weaker than
> full blooded magicians, because he only used priority B for magic.

You don't think that the loss of any spellcasting and conjuring (as well
as enchantment) abilities makes him weaker?

Doug
Message no. 19
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 17:37:02 +0930
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> You don't think that the loss of any spellcasting and conjuring (as well
> as enchantment) abilities makes him weaker?

Only if he doesn't get a whole range of abilities that more than compensate
for this loss...

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 11:18:50 +0200
>> with what is this Drain resisted? Willpower? Magic?
>> Essence? I don't think you ever mentioned that...
>
>Frag! I forgot all about that. Essence maybe? Since it is a matter of the
>essence loss, I would think that it should be the current essence. That
>way, it makes it harder for an adept to resist the drain when he has been
>taking the essence loss for several hours. Makes for a good reason to get
>back to his body in a hurry. No?

I don't know, maybe we should make it resisted by the char's Magic rating --
otherwise, what does the adept use that rating for anyway? He can't banish,
he can't cast spells, and in this way it at least makes sense for him to
initiate to get a higher Magic rating -- spend more time in astral space.

>[Evil GM-like grin] (Hey, I can't do
>the real evil GM grin, since I'm no GM :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Let it all out
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 11:18:56 +0200
>So you shouldn't make an
>adept that has access to a part of the cake in a BETTER way than the
>usual magicians do.

Yes, the astral adept, as written now, is better at staying in astral space
than regular magicians. But that is the _only_ thing he can do. A sorcery
adept can, yes, only cast spells. But look at the variety of things he can
do with those spells. Then take a conjuring adept. In my eyes, they're more
limited than sorcery adepts yet still they're priority B folks. I think this
astral adept will work just fine as priority B with his only real ability
being to stay in astral space longer than most other people.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Let it all out
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 22
From: Charles KcKenzie <kilroy@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 17:07:54 -0500
On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >> with what is this Drain resisted? Willpower? Magic?
> >> Essence? I don't think you ever mentioned that...
> >
> >Frag! I forgot all about that. Essence maybe? Since it is a matter of the
> >essence loss, I would think that it should be the current essence. That
> >way, it makes it harder for an adept to resist the drain when he has been
> >taking the essence loss for several hours. Makes for a good reason to get
> >back to his body in a hurry. No?
>
> I don't know, maybe we should make it resisted by the char's Magic rating --
> otherwise, what does the adept use that rating for anyway? He can't banish,
> he can't cast spells, and in this way it at least makes sense for him to
> initiate to get a higher Magic rating -- spend more time in astral space.
>
How about giving them an ability to manifest or special astral combat
abilities? Mabye the ability to trap an astrally projecting mage?
As it is, they seem FAR weaker than any other sort of adept.

Kilroy. (No, not the one from the newsgroup...)
Message no. 23
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:48:11 +0000
On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, Charles KcKenzie wrote:

> > I don't know, maybe we should make it resisted by the char's Magic rating --
> > otherwise, what does the adept use that rating for anyway? He can't banish,
> > he can't cast spells, and in this way it at least makes sense for him to
> > initiate to get a higher Magic rating -- spend more time in astral space.
> >
> How about giving them an ability to manifest or special astral combat
> abilities? Mabye the ability to trap an astrally projecting mage?
> As it is, they seem FAR weaker than any other sort of adept.
>
> Kilroy. (No, not the one from the newsgroup...)

Actually I thought that any magician who can astrally project can
manifest them selves in the physical. Which brings up another question;
When a projecting mage manifests, does he see with his astral sensing
(asensing) or can he see with more conventional senses.
Other than that, I think he is just about right for being a priority B
character. Adding other "special" combat abilities (other than the
OPTIONAL rule to essence loss) would just make him evem more powerful.
Anyway, I think I just about have the bugs worked out. I'll be posting it
when I have some time to re-type it all in.

Thanks for all the help guys,
Doug
Message no. 24
From: Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 17:20:38 -0700
>On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, Charles KcKenzie wrote:
>
>> > I don't know, maybe we should make it resisted by the char's Magic
rating --
>> > otherwise, what does the adept use that rating for anyway? He can't banish,
>> > he can't cast spells, and in this way it at least makes sense for him to
>> > initiate to get a higher Magic rating -- spend more time in astral space.
>> >
>> How about giving them an ability to manifest or special astral combat
>> abilities? Mabye the ability to trap an astrally projecting mage?
>> As it is, they seem FAR weaker than any other sort of adept.
>>
>> Kilroy. (No, not the one from the newsgroup...)
>
>Actually I thought that any magician who can astrally project can
>manifest them selves in the physical. Which brings up another question;
>When a projecting mage manifests, does he see with his astral sensing
>(asensing) or can he see with more conventional senses.
>Other than that, I think he is just about right for being a priority B
>character. Adding other "special" combat abilities (other than the
>OPTIONAL rule to essence loss) would just make him evem more powerful.
>Anyway, I think I just about have the bugs worked out. I'll be posting it
>when I have some time to re-type it all in.
>
>Thanks for all the help guys,
> Doug

I'm kind of coming in the middle of the conversation, but I'm under the
distinct impression that any time the mage spends while he is projecting, he
uses his astral senses. The rational would be that even though he is
manifesting, he still has no physical form and is only present on the astral
plane. There's my 2 cents.
Message no. 25
From: Kelly Martin <kelly@*******.BLOOMINGTON.IN.US>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 20:13:26 EST5
"Doug" == Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV> writes:

Doug> Actually I thought that any magician who can astrally project
Doug> can manifest them selves in the physical.

this is true as far as i know.

Doug> Which brings up another question; When a projecting mage
Doug> manifests, does he see with his astral sensing (asensing) or can
Doug> he see with more conventional senses.

astral senses. even when one is manifesting physically, one is still
in astral space. at least, that's my opinion; see the Grimoire II,
p.86.

k.
--
kelly martin <kelly@*******.bloomington.in.us>

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed
ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.
One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet
be determined to make them otherwise. -- F. Scott Fitzgerald
Message no. 26
From: Charles KcKenzie <kilroy@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 22:28:39 -0500
> Doug wrote...
> Actually I thought that any magician who can astrally project can
> manifest them selves in the physical. Which brings up another question;
> When a projecting mage manifests, does he see with his astral sensing
> (asensing) or can he see with more conventional senses.
> Other than that, I think he is just about right for being a priority B
> character. Adding other "special" combat abilities (other than the
> OPTIONAL rule to essence loss) would just make him evem more powerful.
> Anyway, I think I just about have the bugs worked out. I'll be posting it
> when I have some time to re-type it all in.

Um...say what?!? Mages can manifest themselves physically?
Why all the rules for grounding spells then? And doesn't this make mages WAY
TOO GOOD at getting places? Why bother with all the rest of the
team...just have the mage materialize in the middle of the place we're
going to...

I'm a bit confused here...isn't manifesting just something for elementals
and spirits?

Kilroy.
Message no. 27
From: Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 20:42:02 -0700
>> Doug wrote...
>> Actually I thought that any magician who can astrally project can
>> manifest them selves in the physical. Which brings up another question;
>> When a projecting mage manifests, does he see with his astral sensing
>> (asensing) or can he see with more conventional senses.
>> Other than that, I think he is just about right for being a priority B
>> character. Adding other "special" combat abilities (other than the
>> OPTIONAL rule to essence loss) would just make him evem more powerful.
>> Anyway, I think I just about have the bugs worked out. I'll be posting it
>> when I have some time to re-type it all in.
>
>Um...say what?!? Mages can manifest themselves physically?
>Why all the rules for grounding spells then? And doesn't this make mages WAY
>TOO GOOD at getting places? Why bother with all the rest of the
>team...just have the mage materialize in the middle of the place we're
>going to...
>
>I'm a bit confused here...isn't manifesting just something for elementals
>and spirits?
>
>Kilroy.
>
Mages can manifest in the physical world, but can only appear or speak, they
still can't affect the physical plane. They even appear translucent and such.
Message no. 28
From: Kelly Martin <kelly@*******.BLOOMINGTON.IN.US>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 23:35:49 EST5
"Charles" == Charles KcKenzie <kilroy@**.WISC.EDU> writes:

Charles> Um...say what?!? Mages can manifest themselves physically?
Charles> Why all the rules for grounding spells then? And doesn't
Charles> this make mages WAY TOO GOOD at getting places? Why bother
Charles> with all the rest of the team...just have the mage
Charles> materialize in the middle of the place we're going to...

a mage who is "physically manifest" is merely visible physically (and
it will be clearly apparent that he's manifesting, and not actually
present). he cannot do anything physically, but can speak to living
beings (but cannot hear telecoms or read monitors or interact in any
way with a non-living entity). he is not actually physically present.

k.
--
kelly martin <kelly@*******.bloomington.in.us>

I could tell by his slurred speech, the heavy glaze over his eyes,
and his inability to stand straight that he was under the influence
of a powerful narcotic. That, or he was a graduate student.
Message no. 29
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 10:02:02 +0300
On Sat, 9 Sep 1995, Charles KcKenzie wrote:

> > Doug wrote...
> > Actually I thought that any magician who can astrally project can
> > manifest them selves in the physical. Which brings up another question;
> > When a projecting mage manifests, does he see with his astral sensing
> > (asensing) or can he see with more conventional senses.
> > Other than that, I think he is just about right for being a priority B
> > character. Adding other "special" combat abilities (other than the
> > OPTIONAL rule to essence loss) would just make him evem more powerful.
> > Anyway, I think I just about have the bugs worked out. I'll be posting it
> > when I have some time to re-type it all in.
>
> Um...say what?!? Mages can manifest themselves physically?
> Why all the rules for grounding spells then? And doesn't this make mages WAY
> TOO GOOD at getting places? Why bother with all the rest of the
> team...just have the mage materialize in the middle of the place we're
> going to...
>
> I'm a bit confused here...isn't manifesting just something for elementals
> and spirits?
the mages that use astral projection can not manifest or materialized in
physical plane bu they can have a form that will be seen from a physical
plane . this means that thy can talk, see (not read from a letter -but
they can see the motions that are in that letter-) of cource they use
their astral senses so everything around them is alwways bright even in a
dark room. Also they can not ground spells because they are in astral but
only they can be seen from physical plane.
Message no. 30
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 02:20:41 +0000
On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Ioannis Pantelidis wrote:

> > I'm a bit confused here...isn't manifesting just something for elementals
> > and spirits?
> the mages that use astral projection can not manifest or materialized in
> physical plane bu they can have a form that will be seen from a physical
> plane . this means that thy can talk, see (not read from a letter -but
> they can see the motions that are in that letter-) of cource they use
> their astral senses so everything around them is alwways bright even in a
> dark room. Also they can not ground spells because they are in astral but
> only they can be seen from physical plane.
>
Sorry, I didn't quite word that correctly. I knew what I said, just
didn't know how I said it. (As if I'm not being even more confusing already).

Doug
Message no. 31
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: New Adept idea
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 11:41:33 +0200
>> Actually I thought that any magician who can astrally project can
>> manifest them selves in the physical.
>
>Um...say what?!? Mages can manifest themselves physically?
>Why all the rules for grounding spells then? And doesn't this make mages WAY
>TOO GOOD at getting places?

Magicians _cannot_ manifest.

What they can do is make themselves visible and/or audible on the physical
plane while they are, in fact, astrally projecting. You can see them, they
can see you, but they can't affect you physically. _You_ can push them
aside, however, without them being able to do anythign about it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
He has you all fooled
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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