Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: tkerby@***.net (Tim Kerby)
Subject: New Adept Power
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 96 22:40:52 EDT
Hello all !

I am developing a new character, a PhysAd, former paramedic, and also a
former member of a Doc Wagon High Threat Response Team. I have developed
a new power that I think fits the character real well, but I wanted to bounce
it off of you all before I presented it to the GM, so, here it is:

Healing Hands

This power allows the physical adept to heal physical damage upon touch, up
to a number of boxes equal to the level attained. The healing is instaneous and requires
no success test. The subject removes a number of boxes equal to the number that the
adept desired, and the adept adds the same number to his mental damage track.

(For example, Ricco the sam. takes a nasty medium wound, a gaping blow to his
shoulder. Benev O'Lent the PA, lays his hands on Ricco, and his wound disappears.
Except for the major migrane that Benev now has...)

Cost of the power is as follows:
Damage Level (maximum) Cost
L .5
M 1
S 2
D 4

Let me know what you think. Thanks!



____TIM KERBY____ |===================================================
tkerby@***.net |"Never relax. Your run may be over, but someone, somewhere,
drekhead@***.com | is just starting his and the target could be you."
_________________ |===================================================
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GCA d-(+)@ s: a- C+(++)>+++$ U--- P? L+ E? W N o? K- w--- O++>+++$ M-- V? PS+ PE++
Y PGP- t+(++) 5 X+ R(+) tv@ b++ DI(+) D++ G e h--- r+++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 2
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:14:17 +0100
Tim Kerby said on 7 Apr 96...

> Healing Hands
>
> This power allows the physical adept to heal physical damage upon touch, up
> to a number of boxes equal to the level attained. The healing is instaneous and
requires
> no success test. The subject removes a number of boxes equal to the number that the
> adept desired, and the adept adds the same number to his mental damage track.
>
> (For example, Ricco the sam. takes a nasty medium wound, a gaping blow to his
> shoulder. Benev O'Lent the PA, lays his hands on Ricco, and his wound disappears.
> Except for the major migrane that Benev now has...)
>
> Cost of the power is as follows:
> Damage Level (maximum) Cost
> L .5
> M 1
> S 2
> D 4
>
> Let me know what you think. Thanks!

Looks OK, except it should at least take some more time than one action
(as it seems to do here).

Another way of doing this style of power:
Let the adept roll a Magic test vs. the same TN as would be needed for a
Heal spell (10 - Essence + 1/2 Body Index), and each success removes one
box of damage, up to the level purchased in the power. The time required
is one minute, divided by the number of successes used to reduce time
(those can't be used to heal, and vice-versa).
The power costs 2 Magic points as base, plus .25 per level (including the
first).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"We don't smoke the shit, we just sell it" --cigarette manufacturer
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 3
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:39:05 +0100 (BST)
|Hello all !
|
|I am developing a new character, a PhysAd, former paramedic, and also a
|former member of a Doc Wagon High Threat Response Team. I have developed
|a new power that I think fits the character real well, but I wanted to bounce
|it off of you all before I presented it to the GM, so, here it is:
|
|Healing Hands
|
|This power allows the physical adept to heal physical damage upon touch, up
|to a number of boxes equal to the level attained. The healing is instaneous and requires
|no success test. The subject removes a number of boxes equal to the number that the
|adept desired, and the adept adds the same number to his mental damage track.

Kind of makes the Mage spell redundant. I'd suggest you rewrite it to
include drain, as per the spell. You also don't have a sustained time or 1
hour time limit, so I'd make the drain harder.


--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack in |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal subjects in:-|to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can still say FUCK! Americans can't|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.gov>
Subject: New Adept Power -Reply
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 09:08:00 -0400
>>> Tim Kerby <tkerby@***.net> 04/07/96 10:40pm
>>>
Healing Hands

This power allows the physical adept to heal physical
damage upon touch, up to a number of boxes equal to
the level attained. The healing is instaneous and
requires no success test. The subject removes a
number of boxes equal to the number that the adept
desired, and the adept adds the same number to his
mental damage track.

Cost of the power is as follows:
Damage Level (maximum) Cost
L .5
M 1
S 2
D 4

I would suggest not allowing them to heal Deadly
Damage since there is no success/resist test it means
you can bring back people from the dead (true you
pass out while doing it but most healing is done
AFTER combat). I would also double the costs of all
the power except for light so M=2 S=4. ANd just to
stop the munchkins after being healed this way no
other form of magical treatment would work just as the
treat/heal spells work. :)


Jeff Riordan
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power -Reply
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 96 23:39:30 +1030
> I would suggest not allowing them to heal Deadly
>Damage since there is no success/resist test it means
>you can bring back people from the dead (true you
>pass out while doing it but most healing is done
>AFTER combat). I would also double the costs of all

Deadly wounds aren't the same as death...


--
* *
/_\ "A friend is someone who likes the same TV programs you do" /_\
{~._.~} "Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen {~._.~}
( Y ) to be dressed for it." -- Woody Allen ( Y )
()~*~() Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au ()~*~()
(_)-(_) (_)-(_)
Message no. 6
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:08:35 +0200
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:08:31 +0200 (MET DST)

> Healing Hands
> [description deleted]

First of all: I like the idea of a healing power for PAs - but we
should talk about the way HOW it is done again because this
possibility would be MUCH better than any healing spell around and
seems to need some more brainwork.

I think you HAVE to roll dices against a TN that should be modified by
Major-Headache" - powers). O.K. - no more babbling, here is my
approach on this one:


Healing Hands - Power Cost: 2

The PA touches a voluntary subject and rolls a number of dice equal to
his magic attribute against a injury modified TN of [6 - Essence +
Body Index/2]. Each success subtracts from the subjects physical
condition monitor. The speed is instantaneous.
The PA channels a lot of magical energy through his own body while
healing the other, so he has to resist a [10 - Essence + Body
Index/2] drain with a wound level equal to the wound he just tried to
cure. The PA may use willpower for resisting this drain.
Use of the Healing Hands power does NOT prevent further magical
healing or first aid but the same Adept may NOT use Healing Hands
again for this set of wounds.


This gives the PA the possibility of bringing even high-cybered people
back to life better than any mage/shaman can. The power is
instantaneous and needs no sustaining - hence it is very powerful in
combat situations...

Comments ?

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 7
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:09:24 -0600 (MDT)
Georg Greve wrote:
|
|Healing Hands - Power Cost: 2
|
|The PA touches a voluntary subject and rolls a number of dice equal to
|his magic attribute against a injury modified TN of [6 - Essence +
|Body Index/2].

How about a TN of 10 - ((Subject's Essence + Body Index)/2). That way the
best target number you could get would be 4 (which seems to be the baseline
for SRII). Or if you think it should be easier because it's a one-shot
maybe a TN of 8 - (etc). But starting the equation with a 6 seems to low.

|Each success subtracts from the subjects physical
|condition monitor. The speed is instantaneous.
|The PA channels a lot of magical energy through his own body while
|healing the other, so he has to resist a [10 - Essence + Body
|Index/2] drain with a wound level equal to the wound he just tried to
|cure. The PA may use willpower for resisting this drain.
|Use of the Healing Hands power does NOT prevent further magical
|healing or first aid but the same Adept may NOT use Healing Hands
|again for this set of wounds.

|This gives the PA the possibility of bringing even high-cybered people
|back to life better than any mage/shaman can. The power is
|instantaneous and needs no sustaining - hence it is very powerful in
|combat situations...
|
|Comments ?

Nice.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 8
From: "Randy Nickel (General)" <a-randyn@*********.com>
Subject: RE: New Adept Power
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:00:31 -0700
If you are going to do this healing by touch for PhysAds why don't you
just make your PA a cross Phys/Sorcerer Adept? It would also give you
more range with your healing.

Randy
Message no. 9
From: Bert Van de Merckt <Bert.VandeMerckt@****.be>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 00:11:42 +0200
Georg Greve wrote:
> Healing Hands - Power Cost: 2
>
> The PA touches a voluntary subject and rolls a number of dice equal to
> his magic attribute against a injury modified TN of [6 - Essence +
> Body Index/2]. Each success subtracts from the subjects physical
> condition monitor. The speed is instantaneous.
> The PA channels a lot of magical energy through his own body while
> healing the other, so he has to resist a [10 - Essence + Body
> Index/2] drain with a wound level equal to the wound he just tried to
> cure. The PA may use willpower for resisting this drain.
> Use of the Healing Hands power does NOT prevent further magical
> healing or first aid but the same Adept may NOT use Healing Hands
> again for this set of wounds.
>
> This gives the PA the possibility of bringing even high-cybered people
> back to life better than any mage/shaman can. The power is
> instantaneous and needs no sustaining - hence it is very powerful in
> combat situations...
>
> Comments ?

Yeah - I do not know why you wanna give the PA healing skills? Leftovers from a wild ADnD
period?
The Shadowrun world _is_ a deadly place, let's keep it that way.
[you've got my players bugging me already!! :)]

[---------------------------------------------]
"Pub: Ah,yes,a meeting place where people
attempt to reach advanced states of mental
incompetence by the repeated consumption of
fermented vegetable drinks." - Kryten
[-------------------------------]
mailto:Bert.VanDeMerckt@****.be
http://www.ping.be/~ping8611
Roleplaying LINK of LINKS page:
http://www.ping.be/~ping8611/rpglinks.html
[--------------------------------------------]
Message no. 10
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:15:32 +0200
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:15:28 +0200 (MET DST)

> Yeah - I do not know why you wanna give the PA healing skills?
> Leftovers from a wild ADnD period?

I just thought it would make sense and fit into the whole load of
abilities PAs can get...

> The Shadowrun world _is_ a deadly place, let's keep it that way.

Yup. The day SR quits being deadly I quit playing SR. ;-)

> [you've got my players bugging me already!! :)]

Oooooops. Sorry ! ;-))

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 11
From: seb@***.ripco.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:07:29 -0500 (CDT)
>
> Georg Greve wrote:
> |
> |Healing Hands - Power Cost: 2
> |
> |The PA touches a voluntary subject and rolls a number of dice equal to
> |his magic attribute against a injury modified TN of [6 - Essence +
> |Body Index/2].
>
> How about a TN of 10 - ((Subject's Essence + Body Index)/2). That way the
> best target number you could get would be 4 (which seems to be the baseline
> for SRII). Or if you think it should be easier because it's a one-shot
> maybe a TN of 8 - (etc). But starting the equation with a 6 seems to low.

The TN is NOT to low, given the bit below- the most power ca heal is the PA's
magic rating (no magic pool). Heck, the TN on my PC would be 9, 10 if I get
more Bioware. Magical healing on a caracter like that is just an aftethought
anyhow.
>
> |Each success subtracts from the subjects physical
> |condition monitor. The speed is instantaneous.
> |The PA channels a lot of magical energy through his own body while
> |healing the other, so he has to resist a [10 - Essence + Body
> |Index/2] drain with a wound level equal to the wound he just tried to
> |cure. The PA may use willpower for resisting this drain.
> |Use of the Healing Hands power does NOT prevent further magical
> |healing or first aid but the same Adept may NOT use Healing Hands
> |again for this set of wounds.
>
I dunno about this- healing boosts would be tough to "stack"- there is
only so much you can do for a body, and this should not be a "divine
intervention" type of thing.
> |This gives the PA the possibility of bringing even high-cybered people
> |back to life better than any mage/shaman can.

NAH, i've seen mages muster 20 dice heal spells, before Karma was added.
The power is
> |instantaneous and needs no sustaining - hence it is very powerful in
> |combat situations...
> |
> |Comments ?
>
> Nice.
>
> -David
>
> /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
> ~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
>


--
--Seb
Message no. 12
From: tkerby@***.net (Tim Kerby)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 21:49:42 EDT
On Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:08:35 +0200 Georg Greve wrote:

>First of all: I like the idea of a healing power for PAs - but we
>should talk about the way HOW it is done again because this
>possibility would be MUCH better than any healing spell around and
>seems to need some more brainwork.

Thanks, I liked the idea too. I am think of other beneficial powers as
well.

>Healing Hands - Power Cost: 2
<Rest of Georg's excellent version deleted>

That was great, but, I don't know, I kinda wanted the power to be like
other
PA powers and not require a dice roll. I cannot think of any other PA
power
that requires a roll. I think that if I add the below to my original
version,
that it would be quite balanced. I don't find it too powerful at all.
If the PA
goes around healing people every chance he gets, he gets real fragged.


>Use of the Healing Hands power does NOT prevent further magical
>healing or first aid but the same Adept may NOT use Healing Hands
>again for this set of wounds.

I like this addition and will add it. Thanks.


____TIM KERBY____ |===================================================
tkerby@***.net |"Never relax. Your run may be over, but someone, somewhere,
drekhead@***.com | is just starting his and the target could be you."
_________________ |===================================================
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GCA d-(+)@ s: a- C+(++)>+++$ U--- P? L+ E? W N o? K- w--- O++>+++$ M-- V? PS+ PE++
Y PGP- t+(++) 5 X+ R(+) tv@ b++ DI(+) D++ G e h--- r+++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 13
From: tkerby@***.net (Tim Kerby)
Subject: RE: New Adept Power
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 21:51:49 EDT
On Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:00:31 -0700 you wrote:

>If you are going to do this healing by touch for PhysAds why don't you
>just make your PA a cross Phys/Sorcerer Adept? It would also give you
>more range with your healing.
>
>Randy

Yes, but it wouldn't be as cool. :)


____TIM KERBY____ |===================================================
tkerby@***.net |"Never relax. Your run may be over, but someone, somewhere,
drekhead@***.com | is just starting his and the target could be you."
_________________ |===================================================
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GCA d-(+)@ s: a- C+(++)>+++$ U--- P? L+ E? W N o? K- w--- O++>+++$ M-- V? PS+ PE++
Y PGP- t+(++) 5 X+ R(+) tv@ b++ DI(+) D++ G e h--- r+++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 14
From: dherr@********.net (David Herr)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 22:47:34 EDT
>TN of [6 - Essence + Body Index/2]

I think that you mean [6-(essence+ body index/2)] I know that its just
nitpicking, but there are munchkins out there (*Elmer Fud mode on*
shh, be vewy vewy qwiet, I am hunting munchkins *end Elmer Fud mode*).
Message no. 15
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.com>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 20:45:12 PDT
>>TN of [6 - Essence + Body Index/2]
>
>I think that you mean [6-(essence+ body index/2)] I know that its just
>nitpicking, but there are munchkins out there (*Elmer Fud mode on*
>shh, be vewy vewy qwiet, I am hunting munchkins *end Elmer Fud mode*).

Why? The rules of magi... Sorry, math, say yuou do that from left to
right.

So, Billy Joe Sam has an essence of 3, and a body index of 2

So:
6
-3
--
3
+2
--
5

Simple, Neh?
Message no. 16
From: Kenneth Horner <kwhorner@*******.edu>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 21:59:04 -0700 (PDT)
On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Benjamin wrote:

> >>TN of [6 - Essence + Body Index/2]
> >
> >I think that you mean [6-(essence+ body index/2)] I know that its just
> >nitpicking, but there are munchkins out there (*Elmer Fud mode on*
> >shh, be vewy vewy qwiet, I am hunting munchkins *end Elmer Fud mode*).
>
> Why? The rules of magi... Sorry, math, say yuou do that from left to
> right.
>
> So, Billy Joe Sam has an essence of 3, and a body index of 2
>
> So:
> 6
> -3
> --
> 3
> +2
> --
> 5
>
> Simple, Neh?
>
How about [6-3+2/2]=[6-3+1]=4 But that makes it an advantage to have
more bioware. Billy Bob sam has essence 3 and Body Index of 6:
[6-3+6/3]=[6-3+3]=6 (as opposed to 0) where master mage with 6 essence
and 0 BI also has a [6-6+0/2]=0. what the hell am I doing? Oh well,
since I don't know why I am posting these figures, accept the correction
as my offering.

Nutcracker
Message no. 17
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:09:45 +0200
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:09:41 +0200 (MET DST)

> Thanks, I liked the idea too. I am think of other beneficial powers as
> well.

Post them here - I'd like to hear them...

> >Healing Hands - Power Cost: 2
> <Rest of Georg's excellent version deleted>

> That was great, but, I don't know, I kinda wanted the power to be like
> other
> PA powers and not require a dice roll. I cannot think of any other PA
> power
> that requires a roll. I think that if I add the below to my original

What about: Unarmed Combat, Combat Sense, Missile Parry ... and so on?
Everything with a unsure/variable outcome requires a dice roll - thats
the idea of using dice rolls in RPGs, after all.

> version,
> that it would be quite balanced. I don't find it too powerful at all.
> If the PA
> goes around healing people every chance he gets, he gets real fragged.

I am sorry, but I think even with the addition it is still far to
powerful. Did you playtest it already ? A PA would become the ultimate
"Healing Machine"... my Shaman (and he's a big, tough guy and knows
what he's doing) has trouble healing more than 2-3 boxes if our Sammy
needs his help. AND he usually gets drained by doing so because he put
everything in the result... your PA could heal him FULLY with about
the SAME drain my Shaman takes... and that's SURE and dependable - no
worries about how injured your PA may already be... sorry, but that's
imbalancing in my eyes.

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 18
From: John Bennett <GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 12:03:34 EDT
On Tue, 9 Apr 1996 20:45:12 PDT Benjamin said:
>>>TN of [6 - Essence + Body Index/2]
>>
>>I think that you mean [6-(essence+ body index/2)] I know that its just
>>nitpicking, but there are munchkins out there (*Elmer Fud mode on*
>>shh, be vewy vewy qwiet, I am hunting munchkins *end Elmer Fud mode*).
>
>Why? The rules of magi... Sorry, math, say yuou do that from left to
>right.
True but it also says you do all the operation presents, (in your example
below, you never divided the body index by 2) and that you do multiplication
and division before doing any addition and subtraction (PEMDAS=parenthese,
exponents, multi/div, add/subt)
>
>So, Billy Joe Sam has an essence of 3, and a body index of 2
>
>So:
> 6
>-3
>--
> 3
>+2
>--
> 5
>
>Simple, Neh?
Apparently not,
6-[Ess + Body Ind/2]=(using your example) 6 - [3 + 2/2]
6 - [3 + 1]
6 - 4 = 2

6-[(Ess + Body Ind)/2] = 6 - [(3 + 2)/2]
6 - [5/2]
6 - 2.5 = 3.5, rounded down (as are most tn) 3.

There is a difference, and with other numbers, the difference may be even more
drastic.

Sgt Pepper, grad student, mathematics


Come to Elfman's World, http://www.ecu.edu/~grbennet/elfman.html

GeekCodev3.0

GM/ED d- s+: g+ a26 c++ u- P? L E? W !N K- w+ M-- V+ PS+ PE Y+ PGP-
t+ 5 X+ R+ tv+ b+(++) DI d G e++(+++) h+ r++(+++) y+
Message no. 19
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 09:12:57 +0200
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 09:12:53 +0200 (MET DST)

> >TN of [6 - Essence + Body Index/2]
> I think that you mean [6-(essence+ body index/2)] I know that its just
> nitpicking, but there are munchkins out there (*Elmer Fud mode on*
> shh, be vewy vewy qwiet, I am hunting munchkins *end Elmer Fud mode*).

Ooops. Of course I meant that. Please don't ask me WHY I removed those
brackets, but they were there in the beginning... *scratch*

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 20
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.com>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 14:47:20 PDT
>How about [6-3+2/2]=[6-3+1]=4 But that makes it an advantage to have
>more bioware. Billy Bob sam has essence 3 and Body Index of 6:
>[6-3+6/3]=[6-3+3]=6 (as opposed to 0) where master mage with 6 essence
>and 0 BI also has a [6-6+0/2]=0. what the hell am I doing? Oh well,
>since I don't know why I am posting these figures, accept the correction
>as my offering.

I don't get it. Why is a high TN a Good Thing(tm)? It makes it harder.
Message no. 21
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 12:43:47 +0100 (BST)
|
|>How about [6-3+2/2]=[6-3+1]=4 But that makes it an advantage to have
|>more bioware. Billy Bob sam has essence 3 and Body Index of 6:
|>[6-3+6/3]=[6-3+3]=6 (as opposed to 0) where master mage with 6 essence
|>and 0 BI also has a [6-6+0/2]=0. what the hell am I doing? Oh well,
|>since I don't know why I am posting these figures, accept the correction
|>as my offering.
|
|I don't get it. Why is a high TN a Good Thing(tm)? It makes it harder.
|

That is precisely the point.
What's the point of having a mage spell with a target number of
8-essence+body index that has to be sustained for a certain amout of time to
become permanent if some smarmy PhysAd can slap you on the back, instantly
curing you with a *lower* target number?
Also, the mage has drain to deal with, and the PhysAd didn't (unless I
missed that bit).
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack in |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal subjects in:-|to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can still say FUCK! Americans can't|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 22
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:18:10 +0200
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:18:06 +0200 (MET DST)

> That is precisely the point.
> What's the point of having a mage spell with a target number of
> 8-essence+body index that has to be sustained for a certain amout of time to
> become permanent if some smarmy PhysAd can slap you on the back, instantly
> curing you with a *lower* target number?

Because the idea was to give the PA a slight advantage on "on the
spot" healings even for characters with some Cyberware. The TN is 2
lower than the TN for a Treat spell, but most mages have more dice for
their treat spells than the PA will have for his healing
power. Meaning: He has a SLIGHT advantage - but he pays 2 points of
Magic for it... sounds fair to me.

> Also, the mage has drain to deal with, and the PhysAd didn't (unless I
> missed that bit).

Read my initial posting: The PA HAS to resist a NASTY drain after
doing so.

By the way: What's all this "Bioware is favored" discussion all about?
The TN for magical healings is ALWAYS modified by half the body
index... and it even says this is ALWAYS rounded down. I just used the
"as standard as it gets" rule - I only made the base TN a little bit
lower because a PA has fewer dice and should get a sligh advantage on
the result. His drain is NASTY, though - so I don't see where the
problem is.

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 23
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 17:44:21 -0500
I disagree with this power (or at least how its been formulated) mainly on
the basis that it is MUCH better than pain resistance and cheaper. Here's
some ideas for evening out a particularly rough power...

1) Magic = number of dice rolled at base TN 4 (successes = boxes healed).
2) Only one attempt may be made (a'la healing spells).
3) Drain of (boxes of damage target has)D
4) Target number modified as per healing spells.
5) Magic cost of 2.0

So if a 2nd level initiate with a 8 magic rating tried to heal a character
who had taken 7 boxes of damage, he would roll his magic (8) in dice against
a target number of 4 (we'll assume the target has a 6 essence), probably
getting 4 successes. Which means it would heal 4 boxes. Then he would have
to roll against a drain of 7D(stun) with his willpower.

<is too tired to really do a good job of explaining the whys right now>

Whatcha think?


------------------------------------------------------------
* Bob Ooton -- <topcat@******.net> *
* Golden Tiger Association -- Submission Fighting Team *
------------------------------------------------------------
* With the speed of a striking cobra he pulled his machine *
* pistol and jammed the muzzle against Mozart's nose. "I *
* put my gun on rock and roll, there nothing left of you *
* but ears, man." -- "Mozart in Mirrorshades" *
------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 24
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 10:17:31 +0100
TopCat said on 12 Apr 96...

> 1) Magic = number of dice rolled at base TN 4 (successes = boxes healed).
> 2) Only one attempt may be made (a'la healing spells).

In addition to health spells, or as a substitute for them? I'd probably
make this power count as a health spell, so once applied it's not possible
to do magical or mundane first aid on the subject.

Also, how about required time? Also like healing spells seems like a good
idea.

> 3) Drain of (boxes of damage target has)D

I think he wrote that the drain was an automatic number of boxes of damage
that were healed. So if the adept heals 6 boxes, he takes Serious Stun
damage, without a test to resist it.

> 4) Target number modified as per healing spells.

Definitely.

> 5) Magic cost of 2.0

Maybe only make it available to initiates?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Can I use these condoms on the continent, or do I need a European adaptor?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 25
From: Larry <lomion@********.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 15:46:19 -0400
<little snipp>
>1) Magic = number of dice rolled at base TN 4 (successes = boxes healed).
>2) Only one attempt may be made (a'la healing spells).
>3) Drain of (boxes of damage target has)D
>4) Target number modified as per healing spells.
>5) Magic cost of 2.0
>
>So if a 2nd level initiate with a 8 magic rating tried to heal a character
>who had taken 7 boxes of damage, he would roll his magic (8) in dice against
>a target number of 4 (we'll assume the target has a 6 essence), probably
>getting 4 successes. Which means it would heal 4 boxes. Then he would have
>to roll against a drain of 7D(stun) with his willpower.

Not bad, very simple and straightfoward, also makes it comparable to other
powers in level of power. Doesn't make it better or worse that other
healing stuff, though I might bump up cost to 3 instead of 2 since it's not
a leveled power.

Larry Sica
lomion@**.cybernex.net
http://www2.cybernex.net/~lomion
-----------------------------------------------
"I see the eyes but not the tears
This is my affliction"
>From "Eyes that last I saw in tears", T.S. Eliot
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 26
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 12:26:30 +0200
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 12:26:26 +0200 (MET DST)

> Not bad, very simple and straightfoward, also makes it comparable to other
> powers in level of power. Doesn't make it better or worse that other
> healing stuff, though I might bump up cost to 3 instead of 2 since it's not
> a leveled power.

Huh ? Why is this rule levelled in your eyes and mine isn't ? *scratch*

TopCat's approach My approach
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

# of dice: Magic Magic

Target # 4-Essence + BI/2 6-Essence + BI/2

Speed: Inst. Inst.

Drain: NumberofBoxesHealed D 10-Essence + BI/2 WL

DiceForDrain: Willpower Willpower

Magic Cost: 2 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only differences are:

- TopCats TN is lower

- My drain depends on how spoiled the other body is, making the PA pay
for all the metal he bonded to the meat again

- TopCats drain only depends on the # of effective boxes
healed. Meaning: The drain will be harder to withstand for sane (high essence)
Characters than it will be for "Cybered to the Max Superheroes"...

TopCat's approach isn't bad in my eyes - mostly because it resembles
mine (made about 1.5 weeks ago) very closely - we can always talk
about the lower TN... no problem. What I do not like about it is that
the drain for healing Characters that are "magic friendly" is higher
than it is for forcing healing magic in a spoiled and nearly dead
Cyber-Body...imagine:

HH the PA with Healing Hands (Magic 8) tries to heal 2 people

A (Essence: 0, Body Index 6):

TN for Healing: 7
# of boxes healed: 1-2 (depends on how good you roll your dice and
whether you tend to use Karma)

DRAIN: 2D


B (Essence: 6, Body Index 0):

TN for Healing: 2
# of boxes healed: 6

DRAIN: 6D


Even TRYING to heal this Cyber-Hero would usually give a magical
character a MAJOR headache (depending on the WL of the
victim)... TopCats approach makes it much more dangerous to heal
magical characters than cybered ones - even though the amount of used
magic should be the same (same number of dice)... this is what is bad
in my eyes.


And please: Could ANYONE explain why you now say TopCats rule is great
and very balanced while mine wasn't ? I really don't get it...

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 27
From: Larry <lomion@********.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 15:37:26 -0400
>The only differences are:
>
>- TopCats TN is lower
The way I read this from the example is that it is treated as a Heal spell
for this (i.e. Essence modifies the TN number) so a low Essence effects it.



>- My drain depends on how spoiled the other body is, making the PA pay
>for all the metal he bonded to the meat again

>- TopCats drain only depends on the # of effective boxes
>healed. Meaning: The drain will be harder to withstand for sane (high essence)
>Characters than it will be for "Cybered to the Max Superheroes"...
What this means is that the more you heal the darder it is to resist drain,
and by having it at D base mno matter what it's tough to fully resist all
drain unless you just keep the guy from dying. You heal a serious wound
your base TN for resist drain is 6, plus any mod's. This reduces the i'm a
healing battery factor immensly.

>And please: Could ANYONE explain why you now say TopCats rule is great
>and very balanced while mine wasn't ? I really don't get it...
I read Topcat's take on it as closer to the various Healing spells and
such already in the game. Which is how I view most Adept powers that aren't
purely physical should be. That is why I view it as more balanced. Even
though SR's magic system is crazy and confusing at times I try and maintain
some sort of consistency within it, this way just seems simpler mostly.

Larry Sica
lomion@**.cybernex.net
http://www2.cybernex.net/~lomion
-----------------------------------------------
"I see the eyes but not the tears
This is my affliction"
>From "Eyes that last I saw in tears", T.S. Eliot
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 28
From: John Lambert <vidar@******.edu.au>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 16:15:11 +1000 (EST)
On Sun, 14 Apr 1996, Georg Greve wrote:

> Drain: NumberofBoxesHealed D

Small mistake, it's number of boxes of damage not number of
boxes healed. So if the target had 5 boxes of damage the drain would be 5D.

John.

vidar@******.edu.au
Message no. 29
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 17:27:37 +0200
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 17:27:32 +0200 (MET DST)

> Small mistake, it's number of boxes of damage not number of
> boxes healed. So if the target had 5 boxes of damage the drain would be 5D.

Ahhh... NOW it begins making sense. I already thought whether TopCat
lost all his instincts for good rules. This is a possible alteration
of my approach - though I don't see the major advantage in it. I
wanted to keep the rule as close as possible to the health spells,
hence I wanted a "Wound Level" Base for the drain - but this is open to
negotiation/discussion in my eyes... ;-)

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 30
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:26:09 -0500
> TopCat's approach My approach
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
># of dice: Magic Magic
>
>Target # 4-Essence + BI/2 6-Essence + BI/2
>
>Speed: Inst. Inst.
>
>Drain: NumberofBoxesHealed D 10-Essence + BI/2 WL
>
>DiceForDrain: Willpower Willpower
>
>Magic Cost: 2 2

>- TopCats TN is lower
>- My drain depends on how spoiled the other body is, making the PA pay
>for all the metal he bonded to the meat again
>- TopCats drain only depends on the # of effective boxes
>healed. Meaning: The drain will be harder to withstand for sane (high essence)
>Characters than it will be for "Cybered to the Max Superheroes"...

First off, you got my idea wrong with drain. It's the number of boxes the
target has taken, not the number that was healed. So if you healed 3 boxes
on a character who'd taken 6 boxes, you'd resist 6D. So my drain is clearly
the meaner of the two. Also, if the number of boxes is higher than your
magic rating, guess what? Physical damage.

Secondly, the target number should be 4 + (10 - essence, rounded up) + (body
index/2 rounded up) + (any other situational modifiers).

Third, you've already paid for the magic loss for cyberware, which means
you'll have less dice to heal the person with. So that's already taken it's
toll. And no way is it easier for a cybered character to heal someone than
a non-cybered. It's equal (except that the cybered one will have less dice
to heal with).

>And please: Could ANYONE explain why you now say TopCats rule is great
>and very balanced while mine wasn't ? I really don't get it...

Because you had my rule all wrong :)


--
Bob Ooton
<topcat@******.net>

P.S. Took me a while, but I finally got to reply to this! Sorry if someone
already handled my points for me. :)
Message no. 31
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:28:46 +0200
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:28:41 +0200 (MET DST)

TopCat wrote:
> First off, you got my idea wrong with drain. It's the number of boxes the
> target has taken, not the number that was healed. So if you healed 3 boxes
> on a character who'd taken 6 boxes, you'd resist 6D. So my drain is clearly
> the meaner of the two. Also, if the number of boxes is higher than your
> magic rating, guess what? Physical damage.

O.K. - someone alese already explained it to me... that was my
fault... your drain is harder and if you all seem to like it that
much I agree.

> Secondly, the target number should be 4 + (10 - essence, rounded up) + (body
> index/2 rounded up) + (any other situational modifiers).

Sorry but this is plain ridiculous. Even elementary school math tells
you this is:

14 - (essence, round UP) + (BI/2 round UP)

So why this 4 + (10 - X) + (BI / 2) - crap ? And why do you screw up the
way Essence and BI are rounded usually in SR. The USUAL way for
rounding stuff is ALWAYS rounding DOWN essence and rounding DOWN the
(BI/2).
The first time you said: Base TN 4, modified as all healing spells
which would have been

4 - (essence, round DOWN) + (BI/2 round DOWN)

so why this crap above ? *scratch* But if you are happy with it: Your
TN is higher now and your are rounding the other way. Satisfied ?

> Third, you've already paid for the magic loss for cyberware, which means
> you'll have less dice to heal the person with. So that's already taken it's
> toll. And no way is it easier for a cybered character to heal someone than
> a non-cybered. It's equal (except that the cybered one will have less dice
> to heal with).

Huh ? The PA paid for the Essence loss of the Sammy he is going to
heal by losing magic ? Sorry, but I get the impression you were drunk
as hell writing this mail... and by the way: NOONE EVER claimed that
it should be easier for Cybered people to heal each other, I don't
know where you got this one from.

> Because you had my rule all wrong :)

Sorry, but if your rule is really what your wrote above we can just
skip it because noone who's sane will ever take the power then. I mean
WHO is going to pay 2 points of magic to be able to throw a few dice at
a BASE TN of 14 only to take a HELLISH drain afterwards ?
Apart from that: Changing the way essence and BI/2 are rounded for
this one power is stupid and all you will get is a lot of confused
players.

I still believe my rule was the better one, sorry, because it A.) made
sense and it B.) didn't mess around with the way things are usually
handled in SR. ;-)

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 32
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.gov>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:35:41 -0400
>>> TopCat <topcat@******.net> 04/17/96 06:26pm

Secondly, the target number should be 4 + (10 -
essence, rounded up) + (body index/2 rounded up) +
(any other situational modifiers).
<<<<<

I just have one question as to why you have the TN
so high? Are you Deleberatly making the target
number higher since it isn't a spell? Even trying to
heal a non cybered/biowared means you start at a low
TN of 8. Assuming you aren't trying to heal a
Wedndigo or Vampire :).
I've haven't been able to pay full attention to the
topic so I probably missed some of the arguments
for/against this system. As it stands now why would a
PA ever try to get healing since the magical spell can
do better with a lower TN, and able to heal more of the
damage without risk of physical drain?
Message no. 33
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 08:17:07 -0600 (MDT)
|TopCat wrote:
|
|> Secondly, the target number should be 4 + (10 - essence, rounded up) + (body
|> index/2 rounded up) + (any other situational modifiers).

Mage with E 6 and BI 6 is being healed.

TN = 4 + (10 - 6) + (6/2) = 4 + 4 + 3 = 11

Sammy with E 1 and BI 1 is being healed.

TN = 4 + (10 - 1) + (1/2) = 4 + 9 + 1 = 14

An 11 is a pretty high target number for healing a person without cyber or
bodyware. And why is it easier to heal someone with a low body index?

Or should the equation be, 4 + {10 - [E(ru) + (BI/2)(ru)]} ?

Where E = Essence, BI = Body Index, and (ru) = round up.

Mage with E 6, BI 6.

TN = 4 + {10 - [6 + (6/2)]} = 4 + (10 - 9) = 5

Sam with E 1, BI 1.

TN = 4 + {10 - [1 + (1/2)(ru)]} = 4 + (10 - 2) = 12

Those are target numbers that I can live with.

A quick note on the "round up" vs "round down". I lean towards
rounding
down. If someone's essence is 5.5 then I think they should be treated as
having an essence of 5 for purposes of healing and etc. They don't have an
essence of 6 anymore. Same goes for body index.

BTW, I like the idea of the transfer of physical damage healed to being
stun damage to the adept doing the healing. What happens if the adept heals
stun damage though?

How about if an adept heals physical damage that exceeds his magic rating
then the excess is transfered as physical damage. Adept with Magic 6 heals
8 boxes of damage. He takes 6 stun and 2 physical. If an adept heals stun
damage then it transfers as stun damage, regardless of how many boxes he
heals (unless of course the adept already has stun damage, then overflow
becomes physical as per the rules). I can't remember all of the original
posting so if you allready said this I'm probably looking like a fool right
now :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 34
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.gov>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 10:58:52 -0400
One comment I would like to make about the healing
of Stun damage. DON'T DO IT! No magic spell can
totally heal Stun damage (remove the effects possibly
but since I haven't read awakenings I can't be sure).
I've always believed that it was a basic concept of SR
that only Time/rest can heal stun.

>>> David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.org> 04/18/96
10:17am >>>

BTW, I like the idea of the transfer of physical damage
healed to being stun damage to the adept doing the
healing. What happens if the adept heals stun
damage though?
Message no. 35
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:41:40 -0600 (MDT)
Jeffrey Riordan wrote:
|
|of Stun damage. DON'T DO IT! No magic spell can
|totally heal Stun damage (remove the effects possibly
|but since I haven't read awakenings I can't be sure).
|I've always believed that it was a basic concept of SR
|that only Time/rest can heal stun.

Uh...would someone please check the Treat and Heal spells to see if
they are limited to being used to heal physical damage? Cuz if that's
the case then I've been doing it wrong for five years. (I would check
myself, except that I'm at work.)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 36
From: Valerie A Olson <volson@********.ca>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 12:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 18 Apr 1996, David Buehrer wrote:

>
> Uh...would someone please check the Treat and Heal spells to see if
> they are limited to being used to heal physical damage? Cuz if that's
> the case then I've been doing it wrong for five years. (I would check
> myself, except that I'm at work.)
>
> -David
>
}}O.K. David I have the main rule book open in front of me, so I will
}}quote it directly
}}
}}Pg.112,"Healing stun damage"
}}
}}"Resting is the only way that stun damage can be recovered.No medical
}}treatmentrealy helps, nor does any magical spell currently known to man."
}}
}}So I guess that about wraps it up, it doesn't seem to preclude your
}}designing a spell that *will* heal stun though, and if you do please let
}}me know I've got a mage buddy who'll love ya forever.
}}
}} The ROO-MAN.
Message no. 37
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 10:57:30 -0600 (MDT)
Valerie A Olson wrote:
|
|On Thu, 18 Apr 1996, David Buehrer wrote:
|
|> Uh...would someone please check the Treat and Heal spells to see if
|> they are limited to being used to heal physical damage? Cuz if that's
|> the case then I've been doing it wrong for five years. (I would check
|> myself, except that I'm at work.)
|>
|> -David
|>
|}}O.K. David I have the main rule book open in front of me, so I will
|}}quote it directly
|}}
|}}Pg.112,"Healing stun damage"
|}}
|}}"Resting is the only way that stun damage can be recovered.No medical
|}}treatmentrealy helps, nor does any magical spell currently known to man."
|}}
|}}So I guess that about wraps it up, it doesn't seem to preclude your
|}}designing a spell that *will* heal stun though, and if you do please let
|}}me know I've got a mage buddy who'll love ya forever.
|}}
|}} The ROO-MAN.

Doh!...dOh!...doH!... One of my players is not going to be pleased.

Thanks,
-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 38
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.com>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 15:50:41 PDT
>An 11 is a pretty high target number for healing a person without cyber or
>bodyware. And why is it easier to heal someone with a low body index?
Because someone without Bioware has a BI of 0.
Message no. 39
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 20:04:25 -0500
>> Secondly, the target number should be 4 + (10 - essence, rounded up) + (body
>> index/2 rounded up) + (any other situational modifiers).

>Sorry but this is plain ridiculous. Even elementary school math tells
>you this is:
>
> 14 - (essence, round UP) + (BI/2 round UP)

+ situation modifiers. If you really can't handle 4 + (10 - essence,
rounded up)...etc, then you can have it as 14 - (essence, rounded up)...etc.
Feel better?

>So why this 4 + (10 - X) + (BI / 2) - crap ? And why do you screw up the
>way Essence and BI are rounded usually in SR. The USUAL way for
>rounding stuff is ALWAYS rounding DOWN essence and rounding DOWN the
>(BI/2).

I don't think you realize how this works. If I have a 6 essence then the
target number is lower (8) than if I have a 4 essence (10), hence easier
healing for the non-cybered. The round up part makes it harder to heal
cybered people, which isn't as it is in the rules for body index (I could
never find anything that states "round up" or "round down" when it
comes to
essence and healing. Our group just went with rounding up because that's
the way magic ratings go). If I round down, it makes things easier, and I
didn't want that.

>The first time you said: Base TN 4, modified as all healing spells
>which would have been
>
> 4 - (essence, round DOWN) + (BI/2 round DOWN)

Actually, healing spells are (10 - essence), so you have this wrong too.
What I meant by "modified as per healing spells" was the essence and body
index modifiers, which I have represented very nicely and you don't seem to
understand. I just tacked a 4 onto that to make it harder than magic.

>so why this crap above ? *scratch* But if you are happy with it: Your
>TN is higher now and your are rounding the other way. Satisfied ?

Very, because mine makes sense.

>> Third, you've already paid for the magic loss for cyberware, which means
>> you'll have less dice to heal the person with. So that's already taken it's
>> toll. And no way is it easier for a cybered character to heal someone than
>> a non-cybered. It's equal (except that the cybered one will have less dice
>> to heal with).

>Huh ? The PA paid for the Essence loss of the Sammy he is going to
>heal by losing magic ? Sorry, but I get the impression you were drunk
>as hell writing this mail... and by the way: NOONE EVER claimed that
>it should be easier for Cybered people to heal each other, I don't
>know where you got this one from.

You still don't understand me, you're lost. Okay, SIMPLE math time...

1) PA with 6 magic (no cyber) heals someone, he rolls 6 dice.
PA with 4 magic (some cyber) heals someone, he rolls 4 dice.
6 dice is actually more than 4 dice. Hence, the loss of essence has an
effect (a very potent one as well) on the ability.

2) PA with 6 magic rolls to heal a samurai with a 2 essence, TN is 14.
PA with 6 magic rolls to heal a character with a 6 essence, TN is 8.
8 is less than 14, hence is easier to achieve.

Got it this time?

Through these two very simple examples, we can derive that in no way, shape,
or form will it be easier to heal a cybered person, heal as a cybered
person, or any combination thereof. Lost essence (and body) hurts all
around in my version.

>Sorry, but if your rule is really what your wrote above we can just
>skip it because noone who's sane will ever take the power then. I mean
>WHO is going to pay 2 points of magic to be able to throw a few dice at
>a BASE TN of 14 only to take a HELLISH drain afterwards ?

Someone who wants to be able to heal by touch as a physad without
munchkinning the power to suit his tastes. Any power that closely
duplicates a spell effect is harder to perform than said spell (e.g., boost
attribute and increase attribute). If I wanted to munch, I would've made it
easier and cheaper.

I never made anyone choose my version. They chose it because it works
better and more fairly. In fact, you're the only one who seems to have
problems and most of those are unjustified (see my SIMPLE math section again).

>Apart from that: Changing the way essence and BI/2 are rounded for
>this one power is stupid and all you will get is a lot of confused
>players.

Just you it sounds like, everyone else understood it fine. Besides, as I
mentioned before, it never says to round essence either way. If I have to
choose between making something extremely powerful easier or harder to do,
I'll take harder to keep everything balanced.


--------------------------------------------------------
* Bob Ooton -- <topcat@******.net> *
* Golden Tiger Association -- Submission Fighting Team *
--------------------------------------------------------
* The problem with this country today is that we're *
* getting almost as much government as we pay for. *
--------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 40
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.com>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 18:10:33 PDT
>cybered people, which isn't as it is in the rules for body index (I could
>never find anything that states "round up" or "round down" when it
comes to
>essence and healing. Our group just went with rounding up because that's
>the way magic ratings go). If I round down, it makes things easier, and I

No, Magic is rounded DOWN. every little bit of cyber hurts.
Message no. 41
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:50:29 -0500
> I just have one question as to why you have the TN
>so high? Are you Deleberatly making the target
>number higher since it isn't a spell? Even trying to
>heal a non cybered/biowared means you start at a low
>TN of 8. Assuming you aren't trying to heal a
>Wedndigo or Vampire :).

It needs to be high for various reasons. Phys ad abilities that resemble
spells always get the worst of target numbers and drain. I feel there's a
reason for this, so I incorporated it into the power. Healing a
non-cybered/bio'd character with a spell is a base 4TN. If the difference
seems high for you, then edit the TN down a bit, maybe use a 2 instead of a
4, but I highly suggest not going lower. I feel that the 4 is fair.

> I've haven't been able to pay full attention to the
>topic so I probably missed some of the arguments
>for/against this system. As it stands now why would a
>PA ever try to get healing since the magical spell can
>do better with a lower TN, and able to heal more of the
>damage without risk of physical drain?

Because he's a PA, he doesn't have access to spells. So in order to heal
anyone he'd need the power. A friendly magician isn't always going to be
around to do this for him. Physical drain will only occur if the target has
taken over the PA's magic rating in boxes, which should be pretty rare.

Hope this helped :)

--------------------------------------------------------
* Bob Ooton -- <topcat@******.net> *
* Golden Tiger Association -- Submission Fighting Team *
--------------------------------------------------------
* The problem with this country today is that we're *
* getting almost as much government as we pay for. *
--------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 42
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:50:24 -0500
>BTW, I like the idea of the transfer of physical damage healed to being
>stun damage to the adept doing the healing. What happens if the adept heals
>stun damage though?

Can't heal stun damage magically. I think that was posted around here
somewhere.

>How about if an adept heals physical damage that exceeds his magic rating
>then the excess is transfered as physical damage. Adept with Magic 6 heals
>8 boxes of damage. He takes 6 stun and 2 physical. If an adept heals stun
>damage then it transfers as stun damage, regardless of how many boxes he
>heals (unless of course the adept already has stun damage, then overflow
>becomes physical as per the rules). I can't remember all of the original
>posting so if you allready said this I'm probably looking like a fool right
>now :)

Nah, I did say that, but you don't look like a fool. Aside from the body
index bit (BI = bioware, not body - bioware), you had my idea right :)

--------------------------------------------------------
* Bob Ooton -- <topcat@******.net> *
* Golden Tiger Association -- Submission Fighting Team *
--------------------------------------------------------
* The problem with this country today is that we're *
* getting almost as much government as we pay for. *
--------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 43
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:57:34 -0500
At 06:10 PM 4/18/96 PDT, you wrote:
>>cybered people, which isn't as it is in the rules for body index (I could
>>never find anything that states "round up" or "round down"
when it comes to
>>essence and healing. Our group just went with rounding up because that's
>>the way magic ratings go). If I round down, it makes things easier, and I

> No, Magic is rounded DOWN. every little bit of cyber hurts.

Ach... that was taken (and typed) somewhat strangely. If you look at the
formula, it is 10 - essence (rounded up) which means even the tiniest bit of
cyber over means a higher target number, meaning things are more difficult.
As for the "Our group..." bit, I was speaking in the relation of cyberware
to magic rating. Which is rounded up (e.g. 4.5 essence would be same as 5
when rounded up for purpose of magic rating).

So we've got the same idea. You didn't go back to the original formula and
I didn't state it all too clearly.

--------------------------------------------------------
* Bob Ooton -- <topcat@******.net> *
* Golden Tiger Association -- Submission Fighting Team *
--------------------------------------------------------
* The problem with this country today is that we're *
* getting almost as much government as we pay for. *
--------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 44
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 23:03:48 -0500
>As for the "Our group..." bit, I was speaking in the relation of cyberware
>to magic rating. Which is rounded up (e.g. 4.5 essence would be same as 5
>when rounded up for purpose of magic rating).

I still kinda said that weird...

Where it says "4.5 essence..." make it "4.5 essence worth of cyberware
would
be the same as 5 essence worth of cyberware for the purpose of figuring out
magic rating."

That should cover the bases, I hope :)
--------------------------------------------------------
* Bob Ooton -- <topcat@******.net> *
* Golden Tiger Association -- Submission Fighting Team *
--------------------------------------------------------
* The problem with this country today is that we're *
* getting almost as much government as we pay for. *
--------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 45
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 12:30:06 +0100
David Buehrer said on 18 Apr 96...

> Uh...would someone please check the Treat and Heal spells to see if
> they are limited to being used to heal physical damage? Cuz if that's
> the case then I've been doing it wrong for five years. (I would check
> myself, except that I'm at work.)

The official FASA ruling from the SR2 book:

You cannot heal Stun damage by any magical means discovered so far.
Period.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Maybe I'm all messed up. But this is the only time I really feel alive.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 46
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 07:36:40 -0500
This is great! I get to play devils advocate!

>The official FASA ruling from the SR2 book:
>
>You cannot heal Stun damage by any magical means discovered so far.
>Period.

"Discovered so far." Which doesn't mean it couldn't happen sometime. To
also qoute the SRII rule book

"When a person's essence goes below zero, they die." That's no longer true
either. You can't say "It can't happen and will never happen." You can
only say "It can't happen when <book> was printed, but that doesn't mean it
never can." I think it comes down to whether or not a GM wants to allow it
in their campaign.

Fnord.

Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"You only need two things in this world. WD40 to make things go, and duct
tape to make them stop."
Message no. 47
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 06:59:06 -0600 (MDT)
Benjamin wrote:
|
|I wrote:
|
|>An 11 is a pretty high target number for healing a person without cyber or
|>bodyware. And why is it easier to heal someone with a low body index?
|
|Because someone without Bioware has a BI of 0.

I learned a very important lesson yesterday. If you've only gotten 4 hours
of sleep it's not a very good idea to reply to technical postings :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 48
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 07:20:52 -0600 (MDT)
TopCat wrote:
|
|>As for the "Our group..." bit, I was speaking in the relation of cyberware
|>to magic rating. Which is rounded up (e.g. 4.5 essence would be same as 5
|>when rounded up for purpose of magic rating).
|
|I still kinda said that weird...
|
|Where it says "4.5 essence..." make it "4.5 essence worth of cyberware
would
|be the same as 5 essence worth of cyberware for the purpose of figuring out
|magic rating."
|
|That should cover the bases, I hope :)

So a Sam with 2.5 Essence (3.5 essence worth of cyberware) should be
treated as if he has 4 essence worth of cyberware, making his essence a 2
for the purpose of figuring out the PA's target number, right?

And the same should go for bioware. A Sam with a 2.5 BI (2.5 points of
bioware) should be treated as having a BI/2 of 2?

14 - target's essence (rounded down) + [target's BI/2 (rounded up)]
^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^

And I stressed the word "target" because I suddenly get the feeling
that I've been reading something wrong, or that there's a point of
confusion. You were refering to the target's essence and BI right?

I got Nine hours of sleep Last night, so hopefully I'm a little smarter
today :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 49
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.com>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:35:23 PDT
>So a Sam with 2.5 Essence (3.5 essence worth of cyberware) should be
>treated as if he has 4 essence worth of cyberware, making his essence a 2
>for the purpose of figuring out the PA's target number, right?
>
>And the same should go for bioware. A Sam with a 2.5 BI (2.5 points of
>bioware) should be treated as having a BI/2 of 2?
Oh, is that what he said? I thought he meant round essence up.

Oh, and it says somewhere (I'M not looking for it!) when in doubt,
round down. Somewhere. About TN's.
Message no. 50
From: Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:37:12 -0700 (PDT)
> Oh, and it says somewhere (I'M not looking for it!) when in doubt,
> round down. Somewhere. About TN's.

Yeah, you round everything down. Actually you round against the player,
for those few cases in which rounding down is good. The only exception I
know of is the Karma cost for initiation. That rounds in favor of the char.
Message no. 51
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 13:15:56 +0100
Mike Broadwater said on 19 Apr 96...

> >You cannot heal Stun damage by any magical means discovered so far.
> >Period.
>
> "Discovered so far." Which doesn't mean it couldn't happen sometime.

Why do you think I added that bit?

> To also qoute the SRII rule book
>
> "When a person's essence goes below zero, they die." That's no longer true
> either. You can't say "It can't happen and will never happen." You can
> only say "It can't happen when <book> was printed, but that doesn't mean
it
> never can." I think it comes down to whether or not a GM wants to allow it
> in their campaign.

Technically, a cyberzombie *is* dead. His/her mind just doesn't know it
yet. So actually (I'm nit-picking here) the ruling from the SR2 book about
negative Essence is still true...
But you're right in adding that rules can get changed when new rulebooks
come out, but until some FASA book says that you can heal Stun damage in
any way other than resting or taking some drug against it, I'll go with
the ruling that it can't be removed by magic.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Listen this time, it's more than a rhyme
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 52
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power#
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 00:49:48 -0500
>So a Sam with 2.5 Essence (3.5 essence worth of cyberware) should be
>treated as if he has 4 essence worth of cyberware, making his essence a 2
>for the purpose of figuring out the PA's target number, right?

Exactly :)

>And the same should go for bioware. A Sam with a 2.5 BI (2.5 points of
>bioware) should be treated as having a BI/2 of 2?

Actually, for the purposes of how I designed the power, the effective BI
would be 2.5/2 = 1.25, rounded up to a 2.

>And I stressed the word "target" because I suddenly get the feeling
>that I've been reading something wrong, or that there's a point of
>confusion. You were refering to the target's essence and BI right?

"Target" is the person that the physad is trying to heal.

>I got Nine hours of sleep Last night, so hopefully I'm a little smarter
>today :)

All the intelligence in the world does no good if someone doesn't explain
something decently, for which I apologize. I'll make things much more clear
from now on :)

--------------------------------------------------------
* Bob Ooton -- <topcat@******.net> *
* Golden Tiger Association -- Submission Fighting Team *
--------------------------------------------------------
* The problem with this country today is that we're *
* getting almost as much government as we pay for. *
--------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 53
From: Bert Van de Merckt <Bert.VandeMerckt@****.be>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 22:25:47 +0200
Gurth wrote:
> > >You cannot heal Stun damage by any magical means discovered so far.
> > >Period.
> > "Discovered so far." Which doesn't mean it couldn't happen sometime.
> Why do you think I added that bit?

Guys, are you thinking about a mage 'healing' himself from stun damage???
I would assume there exists some kind of very extremely rare material which
can do that without to many penalties, but letting stun damage be healed is
just *begging* for munchkinism. ("oh well - just hellblast 'm all!")

Just the opinion of Bert.

[---------------------------------------------]
"Pub: Ah,yes,a meeting place where people
attempt to reach advanced states of mental
incompetence by the repeated consumption of
fermented vegetable drinks." - Kryten
[-------------------------------]
mailto:Bert.VanDeMerckt@****.be
http://www.ping.be/~ping8611
Roleplaying LINK of LINKS page:
http://www.ping.be/~ping8611/rpglinks.html
[--------------------------------------------]
Message no. 54
From: acgetchell@*******.edu (Adam Getchell)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 16:32:15 -0700
>Guys, are you thinking about a mage 'healing' himself from stun damage???
>I would assume there exists some kind of very extremely rare material which
>can do that without to many penalties, but letting stun damage be healed is
>just *begging* for munchkinism. ("oh well - just hellblast 'm all!")

Nah. A true munchkin would cast the spell at 1 higher than his Magic
Attribute, thus getting Physical Drain, which could then be healed.

"Look ma, no Stun."

>Just the opinion of Bert.

=================================================================
Adam Getchell
acgetchell@*******.edu
http://www.engr.ucdavis.edu/~acgetche/
=================================================================

"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent."
-- Sun Tzu
Message no. 55
From: Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:35:34 -0700 (PDT)
> Gurth wrote:
> > > >You cannot heal Stun damage by any magical means discovered so far.
> > > >Period.
> > > "Discovered so far." Which doesn't mean it couldn't happen
sometime.
> > Why do you think I added that bit?

> Letting stun damage be healed is
> just *begging* for munchkinism. ("oh well - just hellblast 'm all!")

I agree. In the Aztlan handbook, where it talks about Blood Shamans, it
mentions that "Blood shamans sometimes will cut themselves, taking
physical damage to offset the drain. Why? You can heal/treat the
physical damage." Allowing stun damage to heal like physical is just
asking for abuse. You ever wonder why stim patches frag with a mages
MR? So the mages can't slap one on to offset the drain.

---Tom---
Message no. 56
From: Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:39:07 -0700 (PDT)
> >just *begging* for munchkinism. ("oh well - just hellblast 'm all!")
>
> Nah. A true munchkin would cast the spell at 1 higher than his Magic
> Attribute, thus getting Physical Drain, which could then be healed.

I disagree. The only reason you'd need to get around the drain in that
fashion is if the speel was really fraggin big. If that's the case, then
it'll probably be in the 'D' range, espescially if you cast it at higher
than you MR. I wouldn't take a chance with a 'D' physical... espescially
when that can frag with your MR.

---Tom---
Message no. 57
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 20:11:22 -0500
>> Nah. A true munchkin would cast the spell at 1 higher than his Magic
>> Attribute, thus getting Physical Drain, which could then be healed.

>I disagree. The only reason you'd need to get around the drain in that
>fashion is if the speel was really fraggin big. If that's the case, then
>it'll probably be in the 'D' range, espescially if you cast it at higher
>than you MR. I wouldn't take a chance with a 'D' physical... espescially
>when that can frag with your MR.

Or your magic rating was low. The cybermage can be a truly deadly
adversary. Cast low drain spells (low target or low damage) with high power
and you'll come out of it easily. A force 9 mana missile cast by a mage
with a 1 magic rating will have only a 4M drain to it. Sure it's physical,
but with a couple of pool dice, this is breezed by. Of course, there are
dozens of problems (that I won't go into again) that result from being a
cybermage...

--------------------------------------------------------
* Bob Ooton -- <topcat@******.net> *
* Golden Tiger Association -- Submission Fighting Team *
--------------------------------------------------------
* The problem with this country today is that we're *
* getting almost as much government as we pay for. *
--------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 58
From: acgetchell@*******.edu (Adam Getchell)
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 19:44:50 -0700
>> Nah. A true munchkin would cast the spell at 1 higher than his Magic
>> Attribute, thus getting Physical Drain, which could then be healed.
>
>I disagree. The only reason you'd need to get around the drain in that
>fashion is if the speel was really fraggin big. If that's the case, then
>it'll probably be in the 'D' range, espescially if you cast it at higher
>than you MR. I wouldn't take a chance with a 'D' physical... espescially
>when that can frag with your MR.

I disagree, because a) a munchkin wouldn't design a spell to D if it could
be helped b) the most efficient way to damage things is with moderate
Force spells with lots of dice pumped into them, rather than high Force
spells with dice held back to offset drain c) a munchkin may have a magic
rating of less than 6 due to cyberware etc.

In my games, my players don't often keel over from the massive drain of one
spell. Rather, it's the accumulated drain that gets them, and that is what
this tactic is designed to combat.

> ---Tom---

=================================================================
Adam Getchell
acgetchell@*******.edu
http://www.engr.ucdavis.edu/~acgetche/
=================================================================

"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent."
-- Sun Tzu
Message no. 59
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.gov>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power# -Reply -Reply
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:46:28 -0400
>>> Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
04/21/96 08:39pm >>>

I disagree. The only reason you'd need to get around
the drain in that fashion is if the speel was really
fraggin big. If that's the case, then it'll probably be in
the 'D' range, espescially if you cast it at higher than
you MR. I wouldn't take a chance with a 'D' physical...
espescially when that can frag with your MR.

---Tom---
<<<<<

Actually I have used that tactic on occasion but
seldom has it been with D type spells. Usually using
Sleep (serious drain) with a force of 8. I figured if I'm
going to have to take a physical wound might as well
make it hard for them to counter it. I use most of the
magic pool for resisting to stage it down to Moderate
or less if I'm lucky. The spell tends to take down most
everyone except the folks with 5-6 will power and the
ocasionall street sam with the 6 will and pain editor.
(Now that guy was a surprise).
If it works in the situation I manage to put everyone
down and have time to treat myself before things get
serious again. Or if they don't go down I deal with the
+1, or +2 TNs till I get a chance to heal it up.
This looks like munchkin but it's actual in my
characters conception to preserve life (even the foe).
Considering that my teammates have no problem
using a grenade launcher with offensive grenades in
buildings I figure it's safer to hurt myself then have
them screw up. :)

Jriordan@***.gov
Message no. 60
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:34:06 -0500
Ballistic Protection (.75)
(Lame name, but I couldn't think of anything better). Each level of this
power provides the adept with one level Ballistic protection, which is
cumulative with any worn ballistic armor, but does not provide any
protection against astral attacks (see Mystic Armor, SR3 pg. XX... er,
170).
A common geas with this power is talisman, especially in the NAN, where
sacred shirts made in the style of those worn during the Great Ghost
Dance, which were supposed to give the wearer protection from bullets.

Comments, flames, etc.?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"One thing's for sure: It'll be years before Chelsea is willing to give a
guy a blow job."
Rick Leahy, Carpenter
Message no. 61
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:41:19 -0400
Nexx wrote:
> Ballistic Protection (.75)
> (Lame name, but I couldn't think of anything better). Each level
> of this
> power provides the adept with one level Ballistic protection, which is
> cumulative with any worn ballistic armor, but does not provide any
> protection against astral attacks (see Mystic Armor, SR3 pg. XX... er,
> 170).
[snip]
> Comments, flames, etc.?
>
The cost seems a little high - most armour has a ballistic rating 2
greater than its impact (all have at least 1 more ballistic, except
leathers - which really sucks, btw, when trying for lots of impact
without lots of ballistic). Bringing the cost down to 0.5 seems
reasonable - getting ballistc armour is easy, and it won't help you
in astral space (it shouldn't count towards quickness penalties,
either, just to state the obvious).

James Ojaste
Message no. 62
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:46:08 -0500
----------
> From: Ojaste,James [NCR] <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
> The cost seems a little high - most armour has a ballistic rating 2
> greater than its impact (all have at least 1 more ballistic, except
> leathers - which really sucks, btw, when trying for lots of impact
> without lots of ballistic). Bringing the cost down to 0.5 seems
> reasonable - getting ballistc armour is easy, and it won't help you
> in astral space (it shouldn't count towards quickness penalties,
> either, just to state the obvious).

I kinda agree, but I still see protection against guns as being slightly
more useful than protection against knives and such. Despite the recent
conversation, most people prefer guns to crossbows.

As for a more "in paradigm" reason, it could be argued that Mystic armor
interferes with the person's aura to an extent, slowing them a slight bit,
making their punch hit a bit softer... since bullets don't carry that
aural charge, they can't be slowed as easily. (True, arrows don't carry
that aural charge, but they don't need to be slowed as much)

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"One thing's for sure: It'll be years before Chelsea is willing to give a
guy a blow job."
Rick Leahy, Carpenter
Message no. 63
From: Scott Harrison <Scott_Harrison@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:46:45 -0400
Nexx <nexx@********.NET> wrote:
> Ballistic Protection (.75)
> (Lame name, but I couldn't think of anything better). Each =
level of this

We call this Mystic Ballistic Armor. A similarly lame name but at =
least one should understand what is it and what it is modeled after.

--Scott
Message no. 64
From: 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:29:02 -0400
>> Ballistic Protection (.75)


>The cost seems a little high - most armour has a ballistic rating 2

I'd actually go with a higher cost...1 point. Basically, when I add stuff
from other people's ideas or my own I tend to up the costs to reflect it's
lack of playtesting and that it could upset the balance of things too much.
Also sometimes things are experimental...If it's not listed in the book, I
say it's rare...and that includes magic...an adept would have to spend more
time learning something that different etc.
Anyway. I'd go with 1 point there because too much ballistic armor
advantage and then your adept is going to be way tough. I think the whole
Adept versus Sam thing...Sam with a gun kills adept...Adept in melee kills
sam...etc.
The idea seems good...I just might allow .75 anyway.


--00DNA
"The Matrix patterns itself on Nature" <<Replication Terminated>>
Message no. 65
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:01:39 EDT
In a message dated 9/4/98 9:36:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nexx@********.NET writes:

> Ballistic Protection (.75)
> (Lame name, but I couldn't think of anything better). Each level
of
> this
> power provides the adept with one level Ballistic protection, which is
> cumulative with any worn ballistic armor, but does not provide any
> protection against astral attacks (see Mystic Armor, SR3 pg. XX... er,
> 170).
> A common geas with this power is talisman, especially in the NAN,
> where
> sacred shirts made in the style of those worn during the Great Ghost
> Dance, which were supposed to give the wearer protection from bullets.

How about making this the same cost as Mystic Armor, except that it only
provides protection against Ballistic damaging attacks. And perhaps, as a
limitation, the number of levels combined between Mystic Armor and Ballistic
Protection can not exceed the adepts Magic attribute.

How do these sound?

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 66
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:05:41 EDT
In a message dated 9/4/98 9:49:09 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nexx@********.NET writes:

> > From: Ojaste,James [NCR] <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
> > The cost seems a little high - most armour has a ballistic rating 2
> > greater than its impact (all have at least 1 more ballistic, except
> > leathers - which really sucks, btw, when trying for lots of impact
> > without lots of ballistic). Bringing the cost down to 0.5 seems
> > reasonable - getting ballistc armour is easy, and it won't help you
> > in astral space (it shouldn't count towards quickness penalties,
> > either, just to state the obvious).
>
> I kinda agree, but I still see protection against guns as being slightly
> more useful than protection against knives and such. Despite the recent
> conversation, most people prefer guns to crossbows.
>
> As for a more "in paradigm" reason, it could be argued that Mystic armor
> interferes with the person's aura to an extent, slowing them a slight bit,
> making their punch hit a bit softer... since bullets don't carry that
> aural charge, they can't be slowed as easily. (True, arrows don't carry
> that aural charge, but they don't need to be slowed as much)

There is another possibility for how this Ballistic Protection works, in
another way. The power would be described as being a Barrier spell that has a
rating equal to the number of levels of protection the power gives, and it
only works against projectiles (bullets and the like).

An advanced version the Protection power would be the "Mystic Defenses" power,
which gives a point of impact and ballistic armor against attacks. The cost
would be 1 Power point per level, maximum number of levels equals magic
attribute.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 67
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:13:51 -0500
----------
> From: 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
> I'd actually go with a higher cost...1 point. Basically, when I add
stuff
> from other people's ideas or my own I tend to up the costs to reflect
it's
> lack of playtesting and that it could upset the balance of things too
much.
> Also sometimes things are experimental...If it's not listed in the
book, I
> say it's rare...and that includes magic...an adept would have to spend
more
> time learning something that different etc.

I didn't go with 1 for one very important reason: the Mystic Armor ability
also provides armor on the astral plane... this one doesn't.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"One thing's for sure: It'll be years before Chelsea is willing to give a
guy a blow job."
Rick Leahy, Carpenter
Message no. 68
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:14:52 -0500
----------
> From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>

> > Ballistic Protection (.75)
>
> How about making this the same cost as Mystic Armor, except that it only
> provides protection against Ballistic damaging attacks. And perhaps, as
a
> limitation, the number of levels combined between Mystic Armor and
Ballistic
> Protection can not exceed the adepts Magic attribute.

Not bad... gives the adept a chance at being a naked with the protection
Lined coat, all for three points (and, for some reason, I tend to wind up
with characters who spend a lot of time naked...)

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"One thing's for sure: It'll be years before Chelsea is willing to give a
guy a blow job."
Rick Leahy, Carpenter
Message no. 69
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:52:44 EDT
In a message dated 9/4/98 6:17:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
nexx@********.NET writes:

> > From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
>
> > > Ballistic Protection (.75)
> >
> > How about making this the same cost as Mystic Armor, except that it only
> > provides protection against Ballistic damaging attacks. And perhaps, as
> a
> > limitation, the number of levels combined between Mystic Armor and
> Ballistic
> > Protection can not exceed the adepts Magic attribute.
>
> Not bad... gives the adept a chance at being a naked with the protection
> Lined coat, all for three points (and, for some reason, I tend to wind up
> with characters who spend a lot of time naked...)

Yeah, and keeps some sort of game balance available too.

Sounds like your pc has the Strip-Tease / Demi-Moore syndrome of taking
his/her clothes off at the most inopportune times then.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 70
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: New Adept Power
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:26:26 -0500
----------
> From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
> > Lined coat, all for three points (and, for some reason, I tend to
wind up
> > with characters who spend a lot of time naked...)
>
> Sounds like your pc has the Strip-Tease / Demi-Moore syndrome of taking
> his/her clothes off at the most inopportune times then.

Nope... just a tendency to shape-change without stripping first...

Nexx
"Hmmm, dwarf sized clothing on a bear. You do realize that once you stop
sustaining the spell you're naked, Mark?"

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about New Adept Power, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!