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Message no. 1
From: Shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:05:44 +0200
Well, after spending 11 hours this weekend getting 3 bloody newbs to create
their characters because <whiny voice>...we don't want the archetypes, we
want our own characters </whiny voice> I have come up with a couple of rules
on the subject.

Especially after all this time, we ended up with characters that just
weren't here nor there. One guy, trying to get a kick-ass Street Sam,
figured he could do better than the one in the book, we ended up with a WAY
inferrior one compared to the book, because of the standard law of Cool Shit
TM. (This looks cool, it might come in handy I want it.) Plus having to
explain that generic skills like (Vehicle B/R) don't exist and why, also
took up quite a lot of time.

P1: But I don't want to spend points on Pistol, and Submachine Gun and
Shotgun and ...., can't I just have Guns 6 ?

GM (me): No.

P1: Why not?

GM: Because they don't work the same, someone who is good with a Pistol,
might not be as good with a submachine gun cause the re-coil and weight etc.
is different.

P2: But then won't being able to fire a handgun make it easier for me to
fire a smg, they're similar?

GM: *thinking, how many smg's have you fired in your life?* Yes, that's why
you can default from one skill in the group to the other, it's possible,
it's just going to be harder.

P1: Oh, but isn't there a skill that lets me fire them all equally well?

GM: GARRRRR! *Pulls out live AK-47 purchased on blackmarket and fires a few
rounds at players to demonstrate balistics* (Not really)

Anyway, after going through this for nearly every skill, then similar
variations for Cyberware and adept powers, I'm waking up in the middle of
the night screaming things like
"YES! THE ESSENCE COST IS 0.16 AND THAT'S IT, IT WON'T GET ANY LOWER KNOW
MATTER WHAT YOU DO!!! No matter how much more nuyen you spend, not even if
you re-attach your testicles via direct feed to your left cerebral
hemisphere to make you more human!!!!"

Right, I'm losing track.

>From now on, Newbs MAY ONLY play archetypes out of the book. After playing
their archetype for more than 3 months or 12 gaming sessions, they can bring
me a character CONCEPT (NOTE: A character concept.) and if they put enough
background in, I'll help them create the character.

No more munching out on creation and then trying to adapt history to fit.

[quote]
...I was designed by the yakuza as the ultimate killing machine, then they
got tired of me and tried to kill me so I ran away.
[/quote]

NEVER EVER again am I going through the sourcebooks explaining EACH and
EVERY *&#$ piece of cyber and why and why not it would be usefull.

Now I know why there are archetypes in the book. Thank you FanPro/Fasa, I
am now a believer.

[/rant]
Message no. 2
From: pgrosse@********.com (Paul Grosse)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:23:59 -0500
> From: Shannon Buys [mailto:Shannon@*****.co.za]
>
> Well, after spending 11 hours this weekend getting 3 bloody
> newbs to create

<snip of what sounds like a GM's nightmare>

Hmm, well I'm glad that I'm reading the book and anaylizing the system
before I get in a game (if I can find one, still no luck) :)
Message no. 3
From: Number_10_Ox@**********.com (Number Ten)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:48:00 -0800 (PST)
--- Shannon Buys <Shannon@*****.co.za> wrote:

> No more munching out on creation and then trying to adapt history to fit.

> [quote]
> ...I was designed by the yakuza as the ultimate killing machine, then
> they got tired of me and tried to kill me so I ran away.
> [/quote]

Shannon,

much as I hate to say it, I don't think the problem here is with the
Shadowrun rules. I think the problem is with your players.

(I think I am lucky. My current group is so un-munchkinish, the other day
one of them came up to me and requested that a house rule be removed
because in his opinion it was making his character too powerful. Go fig.
:))

--number 10.


====number_10_ox@**********.com

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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@****.net (Saren Johnson)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:11:43 -0700
>>> Shannon Buys ranted about:

[rant]

NEVER EVER again am I going through the sourcebooks explaining EACH and
EVERY *&#$ piece of cyber and why and why not it would be usefull.

Now I know why there are archetypes in the book. Thank you FanPro/Fasa, I
am now a believer.

[/rant]

<<<

I must say, after spending the most depressing day at work. I was waiting
for the extraction team to show up and take me away from the bulldrek. Your
rant was just what I needed to cheer me up. Sorry, can't be much of a
help...

Saren - Wageslave - Shadowrunner Wannabe...
Message no. 5
From: sf_fuller@********.com.au (Simon & Fiona)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:39:15 +1100
----- Original Message -----
From: Shannon Buys <Shannon@*****.co.za>
To: Dumpshock list <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:05 PM
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]

> Now I know why there are archetypes in the book. Thank you FanPro/Fasa, I
> am now a believer.
>

Yes, the 3rd edition archetypes have everything you need for pretty much any
character concept. All you need to do is change the race (unless you really
like trolls), move a couple of skills around, and there's your ideal
character inside of 10 minutes. As opposed to about a week and a half of
intense study and cross reference.
Message no. 6
From: Shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:33:44 +0200
Number Ten wrote:

much as I hate to say it, I don't think the problem here is with the
Shadowrun rules. I think the problem is with your players.
------------------------
Yup, I never said there was anything wrong with the rules, I know it's due
to a bunch of newbs and the rest, also my lack of foresight. It's just that
character creation for a person who's both new to the game AND the genre can
be a bit daunting. Therefore, as I said, USE THE FRIENDLY ARCHETYPES.
Message no. 7
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:41:55 +0100
According to Simon & Fiona, on Mon, 18 Nov 2002 the word on the street was...

> Yes, the 3rd edition archetypes have everything you need for pretty much
> any character concept. All you need to do is change the race (unless you
> really like trolls), move a couple of skills around, and there's your
> ideal character inside of 10 minutes. As opposed to about a week and a
> half of intense study and cross reference.

One way to make character creation go faster is to not use all the extra
books. Give new players the main rules, and tell them that they can use
what's in there, but that's it. They might whine about that, too, especially
if they've looked in the other books, but it will mean they'll spend less
time browsing through them all to find the perfect stuff for their
characters.

You can also impose a money limit (say, no higher than 90,000 nuyen) because
the number one thing that takes a lot of time when creating a character is
spending the starting money.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: jhogan@**********.nf.net (Jonathan)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:55:42 -0330
> You can also impose a money limit (say, no higher than 90,000 nuyen)
because
> the number one thing that takes a lot of time when creating a character is
> spending the starting money.
>

Another thing that might speed up the process is letting your newbs create a
concept (cause I have to tell you guys those example archtypes have about as
much fun flavoring as cardboard) and then YOU do up the characters. Since
you know the rules you go by what they give you ahead of time.

It's how my GM introduced me to SR and I still have my character. :)

Then when it comes game time there's no wait on characters rather just rule
clarifications :)
Message no. 9
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Newbie Character creation [RANT]
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:00:50 +0100
According to Jonathan, on Tue, 19 Nov 2002 the word on the street was...

> Another thing that might speed up the process is letting your newbs
> create a concept (cause I have to tell you guys those example archtypes
> have about as much fun flavoring as cardboard) and then YOU do up the
> characters. Since you know the rules you go by what they give you ahead
> of time.

This certainly works, and it's usually how I do it when a new player -- if
they look like a stayer -- joins the group. It might be a bit more
difficult if you have the kind of players who absolutely _have_ to make
their own characters, though...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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