Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	"Nat C." <natc@*****.net>
Subject:	New Bullets
Date:	Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:31:21 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 1 With all this talk of new bulls, I have come up with some of my own new
gizmos:

Needle tiped rounds: These are really explosive rounds with a long needle
on the tip. The needle is long enough to do some damage but small
enough to be loaded into normal gun. It delivers normal exploding
ammo minus the bonus plus one more light wound. Another problem
is that you can only load needle tiped rounds one at a time by hand.

Frictionless rounds: These are normal rounds but they have a frictionless
cassing which is basically millions of mono wires lined up around
the head so it blows through most substances untill it falls
apart. It does damage to everything in it's path untill it's
medium range limit. It does normal damage to anything behind
barriers as well.

Flame rounds: These are the exact opposit of frictionless rounds because
they are made to cause major friction. Because of this, they heat
up to extreem tempretures durring flight and will burn up at
their long reange limit. On the plus side they cause 1 extra
level of power per range index exceded. The short range does not
count. They will cause normal flamable substances to ignight instantly.

Bladed rounds: These act like little knives when shot and enter soft
targets more easily than normal rounds and can cause internal
damage if the victem moves armound. They add one to the power
level of any bullet when firing at a soft target and if the
target moves, they must make a TN5 role agenst body to avoid further
damage (L). The power level lowers by two if fired at a hard target.

Caseless rounds: These are like normal rounds but have no case. Twice as
many can be loaded into a clip.

Liquid rounds: these are really solid but they are made of a plastic
which melts in flight and gets very hot. They will instantly burn
through light armor and cloathing and they cause varing degries
of damage. The power level is normal+(4-Body). The damage level
always S. The rounds will burn up at the medium range index.

Thanks and I hope you like them. I will probibly have more if you like these.

From:	Benjamin <benjamin@*****.com>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:39:44 PDT

Message no. 2 >With all this talk of new bulls, I have come up with some of my own new
>gizmos:
>

Cool, if a little munchy. Unless you don't tell the playters about
them and give them to corps... <standard evil GM laugh #37 here>

>Needle tiped rounds: These are really explosive rounds with a long needle
> on the tip. The needle is long enough to do some damage but small
> enough to be loaded into normal gun. It delivers normal exploding
> ammo minus the bonus plus one more light wound. Another problem
> is that you can only load needle tiped rounds one at a time by hand.
>

Quite reasonable, acutally. How does it get staged down, thogh?

>Frictionless rounds: These are normal rounds but they have a frictionless
> cassing which is basically millions of mono wires lined up around
> the head so it blows through most substances untill it falls
> apart. It does damage to everything in it's path untill it's
> medium range limit. It does normal damage to anything behind
> barriers as well.
>

Very munchy. Try rolling a few dice here to avoid the munchieness.

>Flame rounds: These are the exact opposit of frictionless rounds because
> they are made to cause major friction. Because of this, they heat
> up to extreem tempretures durring flight and will burn up at
> their long reange limit. On the plus side they cause 1 extra
> level of power per range index exceded. The short range does not
> count. They will cause normal flamable substances to ignight instantly.
>

Heheheh... Fire!FIRE!

>Bladed rounds: These act like little knives when shot and enter soft
> targets more easily than normal rounds and can cause internal
> damage if the victem moves armound. They add one to the power
> level of any bullet when firing at a soft target and if the
> target moves, they must make a TN5 role agenst body to avoid further
> damage (L). The power level lowers by two if fired at a hard target.
>

Cool! resisting 5L damage EVERY ACTION!

>Caseless rounds: These are like normal rounds but have no case. Twice as
> many can be loaded into a clip.
>

Sorry, but you're a bit late on this one. See FoF.

>Liquid rounds: these are really solid but they are made of a plastic
> which melts in flight and gets very hot. They will instantly burn
> through light armor and cloathing and they cause varing degries
> of damage. The power level is normal+(4-Body). The damage level
> always S. The rounds will burn up at the medium range index.
>
>

Reasonable. Kinda stupid, actually. Shoot one of theses at a troll
Sam: power level of 0.

>Thanks and I hope you like them. I will probibly have more if you like these.

<in bad beavis/butthead impression> Huhhuhuhuh... Die! DieDieDie!
Shut up, Beavis.

Shiftboy (aka Benjamin Kercheval)
benjamin@*****.com (NOT whatever happenes to be in the From: line today)

Probably the world's only 14-year-old Weretiger PhysAd

no website

From:	Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Tue, 16 Apr 96 16:58:53 +1030

Message no. 3 >Needle tiped rounds: These are really explosive rounds with a long needle
> on the tip. The needle is long enough to do some damage but small
> enough to be loaded into normal gun. It delivers normal exploding
> ammo minus the bonus plus one more light wound. Another problem
> is that you can only load needle tiped rounds one at a time by hand.

Um... why would it do more damage? I mean, the bullet doing the rest of
the damage is just behind, and closing fast... Also, I can't see it being
loaded into an automatic weapon. Maybe a breech or muzzle-loading gun,
but not a cartridge or magazine based weapon. It'd just get in the way.

>Frictionless rounds: These are normal rounds but they have a frictionless
> cassing which is basically millions of mono wires lined up around
> the head so it blows through most substances untill it falls
> apart. It does damage to everything in it's path untill it's
> medium range limit. It does normal damage to anything behind
> barriers as well.

Just 'cause it's frictionless doesn't mean it's got super penetration
powers. What it'll mean is that it won't slow down in the atmosphere,
much. It's still got to give off kinetic energy to move the air, and more
to move the things it hits. What it won't do is give off "waste" energy,
in the form of heat.

>Flame rounds: These are the exact opposit of frictionless rounds because
> they are made to cause major friction. Because of this, they heat
> up to extreem tempretures durring flight and will burn up at
> their long reange limit. On the plus side they cause 1 extra
> level of power per range index exceded. The short range does not
> count. They will cause normal flamable substances to ignight instantly.

Umm... Do you know how hot the bullet already is?? I'll give you an
example. Shoot a petrol tank. Odds are it'll start burning, even if there
isn't a spark. That bullet is HOT.

>Bladed rounds: These act like little knives when shot and enter soft
> targets more easily than normal rounds and can cause internal
> damage if the victem moves armound. They add one to the power
> level of any bullet when firing at a soft target and if the
> target moves, they must make a TN5 role agenst body to avoid further
> damage (L). The power level lowers by two if fired at a hard target.

What's the conceptual difference between this and flechette?

>Caseless rounds: These are like normal rounds but have no case. Twice as
> many can be loaded into a clip.

There are already rules for caseless ammo. See FoF. Oh, and taking off
the case does NOT half the height of the bullet. You've got a minimum
size anway: the bullet head.

>Liquid rounds: these are really solid but they are made of a plastic
> which melts in flight and gets very hot. They will instantly burn
> through light armor and cloathing and they cause varing degries
> of damage. The power level is normal+(4-Body). The damage level
> always S. The rounds will burn up at the medium range index.

Um... how 'bout "No?" If it melts in flight, it'll spread, and end up
coating the target in a VERY thin layer of plastic, which will impart a
neglible amount of heat. Assuming it doesn't just break up in flight. In
addition, you're wasting a lot of your kinetic energy, by hitting the
target with a "soft" bullet.

Nice ideas though... keep them coming, but think them through a bit.

--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.

From:	Kenneth Horner <kwhorner@*******.edu>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:24:03 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 4 On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Robert Watkins wrote:

> >Frictionless rounds: These are normal rounds but they have a frictionless
> > cassing which is basically millions of mono wires lined up around
> > the head so it blows through most substances untill it falls
> > apart. It does damage to everything in it's path untill it's
> > medium range limit. It does normal damage to anything behind
> > barriers as well.
>
> Just 'cause it's frictionless doesn't mean it's got super penetration
> powers. What it'll mean is that it won't slow down in the atmosphere,
> much. It's still got to give off kinetic energy to move the air, and more
> to move the things it hits. What it won't do is give off "waste" energy,
> in the form of heat.
>
If the bullet was frictionless, it would slide right off your armor, or
skin, or clothing. Neither would you be able to rifle it, so the range
would be terrible. I fail to see why a bunch of monowires covering the
head of the bullet is frictionless.

Nutcracker

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Wed, 17 Apr 1996 11:39:22 +0100

Message no. 5 Kenneth Horner said on 16 Apr 96...

> If the bullet was frictionless, it would slide right off your armor, or
> skin, or clothing. Neither would you be able to rifle it, so the range
> would be terrible. I fail to see why a bunch of monowires covering the
> head of the bullet is frictionless.

Wouldn't it also peel away the inside of your gun barrel? If so, then
after a few shots with these bullets you'd have to get yourself a new gun
(or at least a new barrel) if you want to hit anything at all... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Maybe I'm all messed up. But this is the only time I really feel alive.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	"Nat C." <natc@*****.net>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:45:39 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 6 On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Kenneth Horner wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> > >Frictionless rounds: These are normal rounds but they have a frictionless
> > > cassing which is basically millions of mono wires lined up around
> > > the head so it blows through most substances untill it falls
> > > apart. It does damage to everything in it's path untill it's
> > > medium range limit. It does normal damage to anything behind
> > > barriers as well.
> >
> > Just 'cause it's frictionless doesn't mean it's got super penetration
> > powers. What it'll mean is that it won't slow down in the atmosphere,
> > much. It's still got to give off kinetic energy to move the air, and more
> > to move the things it hits. What it won't do is give off "waste"
energy,
> > in the form of heat.
> >
> If the bullet was frictionless, it would slide right off your armor, or
> skin, or clothing. Neither would you be able to rifle it, so the range
> would be terrible. I fail to see why a bunch of monowires covering the
> head of the bullet is frictionless.

It is not really 'frictionless' but extreemly low friction because like
you say, you would not be able to shoot it. Mono wires are extreemly low
friction; thats what gives them the power to cut through almost anything
and a diamond is just the same was because it is one big molecule (a
perfect one that is). The same aplies to this bullet. It is like firing a
diamond ans yes that would have super penitration. The army now uses a
sythetic diamond film to cover its warheds with so they have greater air
speed and peniteation. The same aplies for this and it would be practicle
for firing out of a gun because the point is really the only penitrating
part. The rest of the bull just glides through and that aprt can be
rifled better than normal bullets because it will not slow down much at
all in the barrel. Thank you

Xyphius

From:	"Nat C." <natc@*****.net>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:03:28 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 7 On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Robert Watkins wrote:

> >Needle tiped rounds: These are really explosive rounds with a long needle
> > on the tip. The needle is long enough to do some damage but small
> > enough to be loaded into normal gun. It delivers normal exploding
> > ammo minus the bonus plus one more light wound. Another problem
> > is that you can only load needle tiped rounds one at a time by hand.
>
> Um... why would it do more damage? I mean, the bullet doing the rest of
> the damage is just behind, and closing fast... Also, I can't see it being

You are right with normal bullets and I concidered that but with
explosive rounds. With explosive rounds, like I said, the needle would
enter the body, the bullet would explode and the needle still reamins behind.

> loaded into an automatic weapon. Maybe a breech or muzzle-loading gun,
> but not a cartridge or magazine based weapon. It'd just get in the way.

Thats what I tried to say.

>
> >Frictionless rounds: These are normal rounds but they have a frictionless
> > cassing which is basically millions of mono wires lined up around
> > the head so it blows through most substances untill it falls
> > apart. It does damage to everything in it's path untill it's
> > medium range limit. It does normal damage to anything behind
> > barriers as well.
>
> Just 'cause it's frictionless doesn't mean it's got super penetration
> powers. What it'll mean is that it won't slow down in the atmosphere,
> much. It's still got to give off kinetic energy to move the air, and more
> to move the things it hits. What it won't do is give off "waste" energy,
> in the form of heat.

see my other letter

>
> >Flame rounds: These are the exact opposit of frictionless rounds because
> > they are made to cause major friction. Because of this, they heat
> > up to extreem tempretures durring flight and will burn up at
> > their long reange limit. On the plus side they cause 1 extra
> > level of power per range index exceded. The short range does not
> > count. They will cause normal flamable substances to ignight instantly.
>
> Umm... Do you know how hot the bullet already is?? I'll give you an
> example. Shoot a petrol tank. Odds are it'll start burning, even if there
> isn't a spark. That bullet is HOT.

Yeah bullets are hot but these are supper hot. They are so hot, unlike
normal bullets, that they heat up the surounding air faster than they
move which is why if you fire through the wall of a building it doesn't
erupt inot flame. With these it does.

>
> >Bladed rounds: These act like little knives when shot and enter soft
> > targets more easily than normal rounds and can cause internal
> > damage if the victem moves armound. They add one to the power
> > level of any bullet when firing at a soft target and if the
> > target moves, they must make a TN5 role agenst body to avoid further
> > damage (L). The power level lowers by two if fired at a hard target.
>
> What's the conceptual difference between this and flechette?

Flechette are manny little shards of lead or some other substance while
these are just slugs that end in a flat tip with blades on either side.
This way it retains some of its power when fired at an armored target

>
> >Caseless rounds: These are like normal rounds but have no case. Twice as
> > many can be loaded into a clip.
>
> There are already rules for caseless ammo. See FoF. Oh, and taking off
> the case does NOT half the height of the bullet. You've got a minimum
> size anway: the bullet head.

Sorry, I need to get that book and yes one of the things for REAL
caseless ammo is that you can carry more. If it doesn't include that in
the book, it should

>
> >Liquid rounds: these are really solid but they are made of a plastic
> > which melts in flight and gets very hot. They will instantly burn
> > through light armor and cloathing and they cause varing degries
> > of damage. The power level is normal+(4-Body). The damage level
> > always S. The rounds will burn up at the medium range index.
>
> Um... how 'bout "No?" If it melts in flight, it'll spread, and end up
> coating the target in a VERY thin layer of plastic, which will impart a
> neglible amount of heat. Assuming it doesn't just break up in flight. In
> addition, you're wasting a lot of your kinetic energy, by hitting the
> target with a "soft" bullet.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. It does not spread in flight. This was
demonstraited by an experament envolving little beebees (sp?) speaded up
and fired at six inches of titanium steel aloy. They riped it to shreads
and they had computer video showing that they do not loose their shape in
flight because they are going so fast. Thus when it hits, all of it hits
at one time and it is really hot and it loses no kinetic energy untill it
hits and enters the body.

>
> Nice ideas though... keep them coming, but think them through a bit.

Thanx,
Xyphius

>
>
> --
> Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
> Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
> are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
>
>
>

From:	"Nat C." <natc@*****.net>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:10:06 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 8 > >Liquid rounds: these are really solid but they are made of a plastic
> > which melts in flight and gets very hot. They will instantly burn
> > through light armor and cloathing and they cause varing degries
> > of damage. The power level is normal+(4-Body). The damage level
> > always S. The rounds will burn up at the medium range index.
> >
> >
>
> Reasonable. Kinda stupid, actually. Shoot one of theses at a troll
> Sam: power level of 0.

You don't fire these at them just like you don't fire flechette at tanks.
If you think about it, you could shoot a 6S bull from a holdout if you
fire at something with 2 body. Thats almost as good as a sport rifle
without the range of corse.

Xyphius

From:	mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:26:07 -0500

Message no. 9 >You are right with normal bullets and I concidered that but with
>explosive rounds. With explosive rounds, like I said, the needle would
>enter the body, the bullet would explode and the needle still reamins behind.
There's been an explosion behind this needle, and you expect it to still be
there? Gee, the small amounts of shrapnel from the bullet exploding and
tearing through the flesh isn't so bad, it's this damn needle thats really
kicking my ass.

>Sorry, I need to get that book and yes one of the things for REAL
>caseless ammo is that you can carry more. If it doesn't include that in
>the book, it should
It does. But not as much as you suggested. Brass doesn't take up 50% of
the space of a bullet.

Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"You only need two things in this world. WD40 to make things go, and duct
tape to make them stop."

From:	Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Thu, 18 Apr 96 12:08:56 +1030

Message no. 10 >> There are already rules for caseless ammo. See FoF. Oh, and taking off
>> the case does NOT half the height of the bullet. You've got a minimum
>> size anway: the bullet head.
>
>Sorry, I need to get that book and yes one of the things for REAL
>caseless ammo is that you can carry more. If it doesn't include that in
>the book, it should

It does (in FoF, anywhere). 15% extra. But you're not going to double the
amount you can carry, simply because you've got the minimum size
constraint of the bullet head.

--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************

From:	Paul@********.demon.co.uk (Paul Jonathan Adam)
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Wed, 17 Apr 1996 23:33:34 GMT

Message no. 11 In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.960417164845.19247B-100000@******.nando.net> "Nat
C." writes:
> > Umm... Do you know how hot the bullet already is?? I'll give you an
> > example. Shoot a petrol tank. Odds are it'll start burning, even if there
> > isn't a spark. That bullet is HOT.
>
> Yeah bullets are hot but these are supper hot. They are so hot, unlike
> normal bullets, that they heat up the surounding air faster than they
> move which is why if you fire through the wall of a building it doesn't
> erupt inot flame. With these it does.

Why is brick going to explode into flame, just out of interest?

> > There are already rules for caseless ammo. See FoF. Oh, and taking off
> > the case does NOT half the height of the bullet. You've got a minimum
> > size anway: the bullet head.
>
> Sorry, I need to get that book and yes one of the things for REAL
> caseless ammo is that you can carry more. If it doesn't include that in
> the book, it should

It does, but the rounds aren't half size. Remember that the comparison
people draw between the G11 and a 5.56mm weapon isn't entirely valid, since
the G11 fires a 4.7mm caseless vice a 5.56mm cased. Going from .223 to
.308 roughly doubles the weight per round as well.

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude
towards him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem.
For better or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." R. A. Lafferty

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	acgetchell@*******.edu (Adam Getchell)
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Thu, 18 Apr 1996 15:00:11 -0700

Message no. 12 >It is not really 'frictionless' but extreemly low friction because like
>you say, you would not be able to shoot it. Mono wires are extreemly low
>friction; thats what gives them the power to cut through almost anything

No, friction does not have a major role. Otherwise, graphite would make a
better knife than diamond because graphite has a lower coefficient of
friction.

It is the tensile strength (or Young's modulus if your prefer) that
determines whether a material can successfully support the stress/strain of
cutting/being cut.

>for firing out of a gun because the point is really the only penitrating
>part. The rest of the bull just glides through and that aprt can be

The geometry of the leading surface (point) determines the energy transfer
of the bullet involved in forcing apart the material in the target. A
certain minimum energy is required to shear the material at all, and then
the energy expenditure continues until no longer sufficient to overcome the
material shear modulus. Along the way, the bullet is also dumping energy
into cavitation, shock, sound, rotation, and friction. Since all bullets of
.50 caliber or less immediately begin tumbling upon striking soft targets,
the frictionlessness of the round does not have a whole lot to do with
energy transfer compared with other modes.

>Xyphius

=================================================================
Adam Getchell
acgetchell@*******.edu
http://www.engr.ucdavis.edu/~acgetche/
=================================================================

"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent."
-- Sun Tzu

From:	acgetchell@*******.edu (Adam Getchell)
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:59:31 -0700

Message no. 13 >Frictionless rounds: These are normal rounds but they have a frictionless
> cassing which is basically millions of mono wires lined up around

Coating a bullet with buckytubes would not make it frictionless. The only
material known to be frictionless is 2K Helium in a superfluid state.

Not that it would get you much, anyways. Energy still needs to be expended
by the bullet to force the target material apart. Geometry is much more
important in this regard. A solid frictionless block still has the
aerodynamic properties of a brick.

>Flame rounds: These are the exact opposit of frictionless rounds because
> they are made to cause major friction. Because of this, they heat

This already happens. Increasing the coefficient of drag for the bullet
will *not* dissipate all of an object's kinetic energy over a reasonable
length of time. An example is a drag-racer. Yes, they use parachutes to
slow down but they still require brakes to come to a complete stop.

Also, a bullet is not a very efficient way to convert to thermal energy. It
does a much better job of kinetic energy poisoning. ;-) Note that any
increase in thermal energy for the bullet comes at the expense of kinetic
energy, so you'd get a very hot bullet that bounced off armor, at best. And
the total thermal energy available is, of course, equal to the initial
kinetic energy, which is not a lot on the scale of things. If you want an
efficient thermal energy source, use a flamethrower or plasma gun.

>Liquid rounds: these are really solid but they are made of a plastic
> which melts in flight and gets very hot. They will instantly burn

The ballistic characteristics of these would be so unstable as to preclude
reliably hitting anything.

I echo what Robert said. Keep trying, but think the ideas through a little
bit more. Also, check out some sources on ballistics. Many ideas have been
already tried, and it may give you a better feel. Most of the "gun nuts"
have lots of experience.

=================================================================
Adam Getchell
acgetchell@*******.edu
http://www.engr.ucdavis.edu/~acgetche/
=================================================================

"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent."
-- Sun Tzu

From:	Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Fri, 19 Apr 1996 08:54:08 -0700

Message no. 14 Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> >Needle tiped rounds: <snip>
> Also, I can't see it being loaded into an automatic weapon. Maybe a
> breech or muzzle-loading gun, but not a cartridge or magazine based
> weapon. It'd just get in the way.

I agree. Especially when we're talking about weapons configured for
caseless ammo -- no eject port.

> >Frictionless rounds:<snip>
Teflon rounds show some improvement over normal rounds against flexible
armour like kevlar, but show no difference against ceramics, Lexan,
hardened steel or other rigid armours.

> >Flame rounds: <snip>
> Umm... Do you know how hot the bullet already is?? I'll give you an
> example. Shoot a petrol tank. Odds are it'll start burning, even if
> there isn't a spark. That bullet is HOT.
>Depends on how full the tank is. rarely have I seen a normal copper
jacketed bullet ignite a full or even 1/2 filled petrol tank (almost
always does a near empty tank in hot weather, though). Nickel jacketed
rounds such as those used by the Italian military and police will most
certainly result in ignition.

>
> >Bladed rounds: <snip>
> What's the conceptual difference between this and flechette?
> Flechettes don't keep cutting when you breath or move. Black Talons and
Olin's Razorback rounds do -- the Razorbacks will even get the doc that's
cutting 'em out (jacket breaks up like fiber glass threads ... something
to do with being a spun tungsten/titanium alloy).

> >Caseless rounds: <snip>
So, you've got a weight reduction. You still have not done anything about
the physical size of the round -- no increase in ammo for the same size
clip.

> >Liquid rounds:<snip>
> Um... how 'bout "No?" If it melts in flight, it'll spread, and end up
> coating the target in a VERY thin layer of plastic, which will impart a
> neglible amount of heat. Assuming it doesn't just break up in flight. In
> addition, you're wasting a lot of your kinetic energy, by hitting the
> target with a "soft" bullet.
> Encapsulated rounds. He'll get there yet.

> Nice ideas though... keep them coming, but think them through a bit.

agreed.

From:	ratinox@******.gweep.net (Stainless Steel Rat)
Subject:	Re: New Bullets
Date:	Sat, 20 Apr 1996 02:16:14 GMT

Message no. 15 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 19 Apr 1996 08:54:08 -0700, Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
wrote:

>> >Frictionless rounds:<snip>
>Teflon rounds show some improvement over normal rounds against
flexible
>armour like kevlar,

Actually, FBI ballistics have shown that Teflon-coated rounds have
slightly *worse* penetration characteristics than uncoated rounds.
The Teflon coating is to reduce barrel wear when using steel and
steel jacketed rounds, not penetration characteristics.

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--
Oh, your standard-issue Big Gun. Equipment Division made it, and now it's
part of my private collection. I was late because I... had to get it.

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