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Message no. 1
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:32:10 +0200
Hail Runners,

Here's the story. 4 characters, all are not really the best of friends are
up against 3 vampires. One of the group has been bitten, and due to his
excessive cyberware I gave him 6 - [essence] = days before he turned into a
vampire himself.

They found a religious vampire hunter order that are willing to help them
and keep an eye on the bitten character. The problem is, the bitten
character has used most of his resources to purchase a level three contact
(SR3 rules) and he chose a policlub leader (small time, enough to be a
nuisance...it fitted into his background). The problem manifests itself in
the following way; the player reasons that he is slowly turning evil,
granted. The other players are considering killing him, the olde stack
through heart bit. He's not stupid so he might anticipate this, granted. He
has taken precautions, if he should die (do remember he doesn't give a frag
about anything anymore) he wants his policlub buddies to take out the other
runners. His reasoning is that he can't trust them, that they wouldn't help
him if he didn't offer them money, while he has helped them countless times
in the past. He has paid the policlub a substantial amount of money to do
so.

Now, the runners don't have a very good chance to beat the three vampires,
especially if the bitten character decides to join the vampires, which he
mentioned as possibility to me once or twice. They were supposed to have
waited a little, continue with their run (the one where the church pays the
runners to get rid of their debt to a corporation, it was briefly discussed
a week or two ago on the list), weaken the vampire and take him out later
on. The vampire hunters that are helping them told them that the player
could be saved by killing the head vampire, even when he would be a vampire
himself, provided he hadn't feeded yet.

If they survive the deal with the vampire's, then the characters will most
likely, due to the death of the bitten character, be up against a policlub
and their assassins. I really don't see a way out at this point. The only
thing I've been telling them that they should continue their run and kill
the head vamp while keeping the bitten runner locked up until they do so.

I could use some expert advice.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 2
From: Steven A. Tinner bluewizard@*****.com
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:58:29 -0400
>on. The vampire hunters that are helping them told them that the player
>could be saved by killing the head vampire, even when he would be a vampire
>himself, provided he hadn't feeded yet.

Umm ... I'll assume you're using a house rule here, since SR vampires are
caused by a virus.
Once you have it, killing the head vampire doesn't matter one way or
another.

>If they survive the deal with the vampire's, then the characters will most
>likely, due to the death of the bitten character, be up against a policlub
>and their assassins. I really don't see a way out at this point. The only
>thing I've been telling them that they should continue their run and kill
>the head vamp while keeping the bitten runner locked up until they do so.

Do you want a way out of the whole vampire thing? Or just a way out of
having the rest of the team killed by the polis?

If you want to change the whole vampire deal, let the runners learn "the
truth" about how vampirism works.
Allow the infected runner to undergo some radical gene-therapy/anti-viral
treatment to cure him before the disease takes full effect.
(Tell them that the vampire hunters were wrong about how vampirism works.)

If you don't want to use the polis once the bitten runner is dead, just let
the other PC's either buy them off, or let the polis screw over the bitten
guy and not bother avenging him. simple as that.

Hope it helps.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/tinner
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute."
Message no. 3
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:07:08 +0200
> Umm ... I'll assume you're using a house rule here, since SR vampires are
> caused by a virus.
> Once you have it, killing the head vampire doesn't matter one way or
> another.

Yeah,...house rule. For the story's sake I introduced this kind of vampire
as well.

> If you don't want to use the polis once the bitten runner is dead, just
let
> the other PC's either buy them off, or let the polis screw over the bitten
> guy and not bother avenging him. simple as that.

This would be a nice solution were it not for the fact that the polis leader
was a level 3 contact (friend for life, I-will-take-a-bullet-kinda-friend),
and I don't see how someone's dying wish could be bought of when it comes to
a level 3 contact. Neither would the screwing over part.

The only way I see out of it, is to give them a fighting chance, too bad the
group consists of:

Troll Mage - The polis will take no chance with the fragger,
B&E specialist - Has a snowball's chance in hell to survive any combat, this
is one that always stands at the back cheering the rest of the runners on.
Assassin - Who actually has a chance of survival, but I doubt he'll manage
to throw the dice in his favor, as this man is born with bad dice-luck.
Sam - Infected runner,...soon to be toast as he is planning to join the
vampire posse.

*sigh*

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 4
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:26:44 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Steinmeijer <dv8@********.nl>
To: ShadowRN Mailing List <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 2:32 AM
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice


<snip>

> Now, the runners don't have a very good chance to beat the three vampires,
> especially if the bitten character decides to join the vampires, which he
> mentioned as possibility to me once or twice. They were supposed to have
> waited a little, continue with their run (the one where the church pays
the
> runners to get rid of their debt to a corporation, it was briefly
discussed
> a week or two ago on the list), weaken the vampire and take him out later
> on. The vampire hunters that are helping them told them that the player
> could be saved by killing the head vampire, even when he would be a
vampire
> himself, provided he hadn't feeded yet.
>
> If they survive the deal with the vampire's, then the characters will most
> likely, due to the death of the bitten character, be up against a policlub
> and their assassins. I really don't see a way out at this point. The only
> thing I've been telling them that they should continue their run and kill
> the head vamp while keeping the bitten runner locked up until they do so.
>


Hi,
If I am understanding this correctly, you have two problems, the pc's
going after the vampires early, and the policlub avenging the sams death.
For the first one, you can always have some of the hunters to go with them,
or weaken the three vamps some.

Now to your second problem. I see three resolutions: 1) Declare it
PPS (Petty PC Stuff) and let the cards fall as they may; 2) Maybe the whole
policlub doesn't want to avenge this sam's death, so the leader gets some of
his closest buddies (read, a decent but not overpowering force for the
characters); or 3) Most policlubs have a rival club that could help the
PC's.

Hope this helps,
Mockingbird
Message no. 5
From: Lloyd Vance ljvance@*******.edu
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:45:04
At 01:07 PM 7/15/99 +0200, you wrote:
>> Umm ... I'll assume you're using a house rule here, since SR vampires are
>> caused by a virus.
>> Once you have it, killing the head vampire doesn't matter one way or
>> another.
>
>Yeah,...house rule. For the story's sake I introduced this kind of vampire
>as well.
>
>> If you don't want to use the polis once the bitten runner is dead, just
>let
>> the other PC's either buy them off, or let the polis screw over the bitten
>> guy and not bother avenging him. simple as that.
>
>This would be a nice solution were it not for the fact that the polis leader
>was a level 3 contact (friend for life, I-will-take-a-bullet-kinda-friend),
>and I don't see how someone's dying wish could be bought of when it comes to
>a level 3 contact. Neither would the screwing over part.
>

Also, an option would be to have the polis go after them, but not all at
once, and not regularly. Have it be your back-up 'I gotta get them in a
firefight. Hmmm. What do I throw at them? Dzoonooqua? Bombadiers? Oh!
The Polis!' Just enough to annoy them regularly, but not enough to kill
them. At least for a while, and then it could become a big 'war' between
the runners and the polis, with an ultimate battle, and blah blah blah.

>The only way I see out of it, is to give them a fighting chance, too bad the
>group consists of:
>
>Troll Mage - The polis will take no chance with the fragger,
>B&E specialist - Has a snowball's chance in hell to survive any combat, this
>is one that always stands at the back cheering the rest of the runners on.
>Assassin - Who actually has a chance of survival, but I doubt he'll manage
>to throw the dice in his favor, as this man is born with bad dice-luck.
>Sam - Infected runner,...soon to be toast as he is planning to join the
>vampire posse.
>
>*sigh*
>
>Dennis

It also doesn't have to get to that point. Like someone else said, lock up
the bitten one, and kill the head guy. Give the group help if they need
it, or not. Whatever. remember the guy playing the bitten character will
be really bored at the games if you have him locked up and he can't do
anything, so make the resolution happen fast, let him sit out a few
sessions, or let him become a vampire, and maybe his team will see that he
can be a vamp and their friend . . . <shrug>

The Hamm
aka Lloyd Vance
Message no. 6
From: Steven A. Tinner bluewizard@*****.com
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:19:53 -0400
>This would be a nice solution were it not for the fact that the polis
leader
>was a level 3 contact (friend for life, I-will-take-a-bullet-kinda-friend),
>and I don't see how someone's dying wish could be bought of when it comes
to
>a level 3 contact. Neither would the screwing over part.

OK so the LEADER is a level three contact.
Did this guy actually buy the whole poli as a gang contact?
If so at what level?
One thing about gangs like this is that there is ALWAYS a leadership
struggle going on! ;-)
Maybe the PC's are contacted by the Poli's second in command, who would like
them to help eliminate the poli's leader, thereby making him the top dog.

It's then a simple matter to arrange the second in command to have a force
loyal to himself accompany the leader on the way to kill the PC's.
He could then ally with the PC's against the leader and any members loyal to
him.

If you wanna be a little fair about it, make the PC's pay the second in
command for this help, either in cash, karma or "favors!"

Someone else suggested calling in the poli's enemies. ie. If you're fighting
Humanis, calling the Orc Rights Committee, or S.W.O.R.D., heck just buy some
grenades and hire some gangers to lob them in the policlub during a meeting.

YOU are them GM.
You can :"cheat"
Don't let this ruin your campign. If you don't want something to happen a
certain way, it's within your power to change it.
Maybe the PC's get ambushed by a weak group of muggers, thereby delaying
them just enough so they miss the hideous ambush the poli set for them.
Maybe Lone Star busts the poli under suspicion of other crimes, and the
whole group is sent up the river.

There's always a way out! ;-)

Steven A. Tinner - EGM juices flowing once again! ;-)
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/tinner
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute."
Message no. 7
From: Machine-gun Kelly mgkelly@****.com
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:03:38 -0400
> Maybe Lone Star busts the poli under suspicion of other crimes, and the
> whole group is sent up the river.

I had a situation like this in one of my games. The Gunbunny had a Gang
Leader as a Level 3 contact and it started to unbalance the game, what
with his Gang Leader Best Buddy always bringing the gang to the PC's
rescue. So, like Tinner suggested, since I was the GM, I cheated. The
gangs current rivals got a bunch of shiny new toys from the Yaks, went
into the warehouse the PC's gang buddies lived in early on morning and
wiped them out. I can see polis as having similar opposition [Humanis,
O.R.C., et cetera] who may be quite militant and willing to resort to
similar tactics.

MGK
--
Quoth Rob: "Drop trow. Sing 'Black Dog'."
Message no. 8
From: Ignacio De Lucas morrisjila@*******.com
Subject: Newby GM needs some advice
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:44:59 GMT
>From: "Dennis Steinmeijer" <dv8@********.nl>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.org
>To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
>Subject: Re: Newby GM needs some advice
>Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:07:08 +0200

>Troll Mage - The polis will take no chance with the fragger,
>B&E specialist - Has a snowball's chance in hell to survive any combat,
>this
>is one that always stands at the back cheering the rest of the runners on.
>Assassin - Who actually has a chance of survival, but I doubt he'll manage
>to throw the dice in his favor, as this man is born with bad dice-luck.
>Sam - Infected runner,...soon to be toast as he is planning to join the
>vampire posse.

Here is a thought: Why doesnt you get your troll mage contacted by a
metahuman rights activist who has benn monitoring your level thre contact
and knows partially whats going on. Then you can choose to either killing
the man with the assasin, all stealth kind of mission or get the big war
between the two groups giving them help from the activists then law
inforsment and thats it. Oviusly your group will be in debt whith tha
activists so you can use that for later.
Hope I was any help.

ATTE el MORRIS.




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