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Message no. 1
From: Carsten Gehling carsten@**********.dk
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:18:38 +0200
Hi,

Just starting a new campaign up, and one of my players wants to play a guy
who runs a guard company on the side. No problem in that. The problem arised
when he said: "I also want a trained dog, that is very close to me, and
follows me on runs." Add to that his wish to implant some cyberware in the
dog.

Now, I'm the kind of guy, that would never say no to a great idea. Knowing
the player, however, I have the nagging feeling, that he tries to get to run
"two" characters, i.e. have to fighters in a fight.

So my questions are:

1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's trained
or should I as GM run it?
2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)
3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I figured
that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.
4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?
5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
expect?

- Carsten
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GC 3.12: GCS/M/P d- s+: a- C+++$>++++ UL++ P+>++ L+ !E W+++$
N+ o K- w+++$ O- M-- V-- PGP t++@ 5+@ X++ R++ tv+(++) b+(++)
DI++ D++ G++ e++ h-- r+++ y+++
Message no. 2
From: Andrew Norman andrew_norman@******.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:14:06 +0100
Hi,

Well we are another step closer to cyborgs ;)

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news_224233.html

-Andrew

--
"Win, lose or draw, this thing's going to know it was in a fight."
- Garibaldi (B5)
Message no. 3
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 07:26:28 -0400
Carsten Gehling wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just starting a new campaign up, and one of my players wants to play a guy
> who runs a guard company on the side. No problem in that. The problem arised
> when he said: "I also want a trained dog, that is very close to me, and
> follows me on runs." Add to that his wish to implant some cyberware in the
> dog.
>
> Now, I'm the kind of guy, that would never say no to a great idea. Knowing
> the player, however, I have the nagging feeling, that he tries to get to run
> "two" characters, i.e. have to fighters in a fight.

If he tries to have the dog fighting the same opponent his character,
I would apply the friends in melee modifier.

If he sends the dog to fight a different opponent, you run the dog and
can decide easily if the dog's fight goes well or not.

>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's trained
> or should I as GM run it?

Since it's trained, sit down with the player and work out a set of
commands that the dog is trained to act on. The player can give
commands but you should run the animal, doing all the dice rolls.
IMO, trained animals are still independant of their trainers and can
still behave in unexpected ways. Just less often.

> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
> Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)

Don't remember where, maybe in the "Paranormal Animals of North
America", but I read once that cybernetic implants in animals tended
to make them psychotic. I believe this would be more true in the case
of mind/machine interfacing cyber. If an animal didn't go psychotic
right away, it would be constantly on the edge of doing so.

> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I figured
> that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.

BBB2 does state that the normal animal stats are for the average
critter and that they can be increased or decreased by as much as 50%.

> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

I wouldn't dismiss the idea, but I wouldn't let the character have
free reign either. Also remember that the dog, while not being
sentient, isn't a zombie. If the character mistreats the dog, the dog
will remember and start ignoring the character. If the character
treats the dog with respect and love, the dog will respond in kind.

> 5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
> expect?

Nope. But then again, I haven't been able to play in over 2 years. :(

IMO, this sounds like the possibility of a good roleplaying hook. It
all depends on how the player, through the character, treats the dog.

--
Iridios
--
Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and restart
body.

Visit "The ShadowZone"
http://members.xoom.com/Iridios/ShadowZone

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.97d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
7:11:30 AM/59:03:02 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 4
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:14:56 -0500
From: Carsten Gehling
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 4:19 AM

> when he said: "I also want a trained dog, that is very close to
> me, and follows me on runs." Add to that his wish to implant
> some cyberware in the dog.
>
> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since
> it's trained or should I as GM run it?

Pets should always be NPCs, IMHO.

> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I
> read one Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with
> implants)

See CRITTERS, and I reckon MAN & MACHINE. Basically, it's not that common
and it doesn't work all that well.

> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-)
> I figured that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a
> standard dog.

No, but I'm fairly sure guard dogs have been mentioned somewhere. I think a
hell hound, less its magical abilities, would be about right; books not
handy right now, so I can't double-check.

> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

I'd be very leery of it, for the reasons you stated (he's trying to get two
characters in a fight instead of the more standard one).

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
Message no. 5
From: Drew Curtis dcurtis@***.net
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:14:51 -0400 (EDT)
On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Carsten Gehling wrote:

> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's trained
> or should I as GM run it?
>
I always run the pets. Reason being, the pets might react differently to
different situations, and no PC is going to roleplay anything to his
detriment. PCs who can do that are rare.

Luckily it's not too hard to run a dog.

Drew Curtis, President, DCR.NET (502) 226 3376
Local Internet access: Frankfort Lawrenceburg Shelbyville Owenton
Louisville Lexington Versailles Nicholasville Midway

http://www.fark.com: If it's not news, it's fark.
Message no. 6
From: Ahrain Ahrain-Drigar@**********.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:48:43 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Carsten Gehling <carsten@**********.dk>
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?


> Hi,
>
<SNIP>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's
trained
> or should I as GM run it?

Run it as a GM. Unless the Dog/Master are sharing the same brain. : P

> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
> Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)

NAGtRL, page 68. mentions them in the Shadowtalk.
M&M, page. 44
Critter book, pg. 6 (from the GM Screen)
Hope that helps
If you don't have the books and want the info, let me know. I'll send it.

> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I
figured
> that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.

Probably add 1 or 2 to the physicals (up to 50% more than normal)

> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

Not really, this could be a really good role playing chalenge. You could
also use it to lead the characters down avenues in an adventure they
normally wouldn't go, especially using a dogs senses the way they are.

Example: Dogs are supposedly notorious for "sensing" ghosts and things IRL.
The groups dog "senses" a projecting mage, which IMHO would be POSSIBLE with
a perception roll. Dog starts going nuts and/or run off chasing said astral
mage. Character will obviously want to chase said dog ans whala....instant
"from the frying pan into the drek."

> 5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
> expect?

I did have a player a couple of years ago that would rather play the pet of
the group. He was mostly comic relief but he loved every minute of it. He
also would use the pet in suprising ways, pushing the envelope sometimes
(ala Lassie or Benji) but we all enjoyed so I cut him some slack. Scary
thing is, the pets ended up being played a little smarter than the Troll
street sam. : )

>
> - Carsten
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message no. 7
From: Steve Mancini mancini@******.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
> So my questions are:
>
> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's trained
> or should I as GM run it?

If I were in your shoes, I would look at drones. I recall reading
somewhere neural networks for AIs were loosely based on and
equivalent to animal intelligence - hence the same way a rigger
can provide a drone with a specific set of commands to be
followed and you roll mechanics for that, I would cross implement
from there.

> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
> Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)

Cyberware + Animals = Not so stable beasts. Manageable at best.

> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I figured
> that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.

If you read Shapeshifters, there are rules for "larger breeds"
of animals, since lycanthropes are presumed to be larger breeds.

> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

Never dismiss an idea in my book. Understand their expectations
impose your limitations for sake of the game, if they can't
accept them, then they have dismissed the idea/implementation :)

> 5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
> expect?

A looooooooong time ago I whipped together something called a
Beast Master - a magical adept a la the movie idea for a woman
who wanted to play with animals. It worked surprisingly well -
but she had magic attribute points tied to certain animals so
she was pretty protective of her allies.

Currently I have an NPC decker I have named Shakespeare who has
an entourage of dogs (all named after characters, aka A Great Dane
named Hamlet, etc.) who actually are trained to watch his flesh
while he decks. The dogs are all trained, but their training and
ability to react is based upon his Animal Handling Skill and
their processing Intelligence (not to be confused with their
perceptual intelligence). It has worked so far, and none of the
dogs have died.. though I think when Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern
do buy it the group will be sad and not realize it was their
fate.

Heads..... Heads.... Heads... Heads.. Heads.


Da Minotaur
Message no. 8
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:38:47 -0500
> Hi,

Heya yourself.

> Just starting a new campaign up, and one of my players wants to play a guy
> who runs a guard company on the side. No problem in that. The problem
arised
> when he said: "I also want a trained dog, that is very close to me, and
> follows me on runs." Add to that his wish to implant some cyberware in the
> dog.

Sounds like a nifty idea to me, K has done this a couple of times.

> Now, I'm the kind of guy, that would never say no to a great idea. Knowing
> the player, however, I have the nagging feeling, that he tries to get to
run
> "two" characters, i.e. have to fighters in a fight.

You need to make sure he does not abuse the dog then, and should he do so,
kill the dog outright. Show no mercy. And if you do kill the dog off, then
have future pets not be as cooperative with him in a combat type situation.

> So my questions are:
>
> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's
trained
> or should I as GM run it?

You should consider each action the dog is going to perform. If he says
this dog is going to be loyal then the dog is going to pick on the people
who are picking on his 'leader of the pack,' who happens to be the
character.

> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
> Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)

Any form of cyberware which induces some sort of control is going to cause
an animal all sorts of problems. Passive cyberware may cause difficulties
if it is impacting a lot on the pet (like replacing the eyes, ears), the
less you change of the dogs overall status, the better.

> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I
figured
> that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.

You could give a 'big bad ugly Rottweiler' stats that are 25 to 50% higher
than that of the dog you mentioned.

> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

No, you should not dismiss the idea, just don't let the player abuse the
privilege of having a dog along with him.

> 5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
> expect?

Expect there to be many interesting plot lines develop that you never
thought of ...

Like someone 'dognaps' your dogs girlfriend while she is pregnant ...

Your dog decides to take a whiz somewhere and the guards for the place
decide they don't like the dog or you for that matter ...

And the list could go on ...

-Mike
Message no. 9
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:15:58 -0400
Carsten suggested:
> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since
> it's trained
> or should I as GM run it?
> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
> Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)
> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-)
> I figured
> that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.
> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?
> 5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
> expect?

This is a pretty cool idea if done right (ala beast master). Imagine getting
the beasties wired for sim transmission that could be transferred to the
master. That would make for a hell of a combination for recon and
surveillance and could even rival Rigging. I personally wouldn't allow it to
go as far as the rigger drone concept, but the initial part sounds cool.
Especially if the animals were trained to work from the masters commands via
cybernetic communication.

It reminds me of a scifi novel where they had a special military corps where
the dogs were ultrasmart and partnered up with masters. They said the bond
was so close (no perv comments) that if the master was killed they had no
choice but to kill the animal as it would mentally collapse. The same worked
in reverse, but since putting the soldier down was not feasible they would
have to reassign them and keep them on psyche drugs the rest of their lives
to prevent suicide. Talk about dumpshock.

;)

Smilin' Jack
Franklin Isshinryu School of Karate
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/RallyRd/mlfrankl/fiskhome.htm
Message no. 10
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:22:05 +0200
According to Carsten Gehling, at 11:18 on 9 Jun 00, the word on the street
was...

> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's trained
> or should I as GM run it?

Run it as an NPC that follows orders from the PC. Some spirits are far
closer to magicians than dogs are to their masters, yet they are NPCs,
too.

> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
> Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)

Refer to page 6 of Critters (or p. 220 of SRII, it has the same rules) for
this. Basically, cyberware gives a chance the dog turns on its owner...

> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I figured
> that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.

"Dog, Large" would do, maybe with a few higher attributes to reflect this
particular dogs strengths.

> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

I'd allow it, but I wouldn't make it into a kind of wonder-dog
(<character's name here> and Dog Wonder ;) Play it realistically, and keep
the dog under GM control, or let the player control it but step in when
you think he's trying to make the dog do something it wouldn't.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here come the golden oldies. Here come the Hezbollah.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:22:05 +0200
According to Steve Mancini, at 8:30 on 9 Jun 00, the word on the street
was...

> A looooooooong time ago I whipped together something called a
> Beast Master - a magical adept a la the movie idea for a woman
> who wanted to play with animals. It worked surprisingly well -
> but she had magic attribute points tied to certain animals so
> she was pretty protective of her allies.

For anyone who doesn't have the article Steve is talking about, it's in
NAGEE 6, <plug>available from
http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/nagee </plug>

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here come the golden oldies. Here come the Hezbollah.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:49:20 -0400
Like you (and apparently many other folks on this list) I am reluctant to
just toss out good ideas. However, in my decade (or more) of gamemastering
various systems, this puppy situation is one that I personally have been
more and more reluctant to deal with.

----- Original Message -----
From: Carsten Gehling <carsten@**********.dk>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's
trained
> or should I as GM run it?

What I do these days is allow the player to have nominal control of the
animal. I make it clear, though, that the pooch is a separate character, and
if I feel that it wouldn't perform a given action, I will overrule. After
all, it's a living being, not a drone. If he wants slave critters so much,
by him a Vehicle Control Rig. *grin*

If the PC abuses the animal (basically running it as an extension of the
character's will) I get tough. I'll warn the player and talk with him about
it, but if the trouble continues... so loong to man's best friend.

> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
> Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)

Cyber and animals don't mix very well. It is possible, but I don't recall
any specific rules offhand. I would be innclined to have the animal make
Willpower tests against a target number of 6-Essence (or something like
that) to see if they snap.

> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I
figured
> that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.

Other folks have pointed out where these can be found. I won't repeat them.

> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

I don't think you should dismiss it completely, but it's one of those things
that may come to annoy you after a time. For me, I have enough going on as
it is while I GM. I don't like having to keep track of friendly NPCs at the
same time. If I don't have to deal with it, why bother?

> 5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
> expect?

Just keep a close watch on it. I hate to relegate the interaction of the dog
and master to game mechanics and dice rolls (not really my style), but that
seems the best way to go with it. On the other hand, if the player is mature
enough to handle the added work, I say go for it. If it causes problems,
make him regret the choice *sinister grin*.

After all, a non-sentient NPC can make for all sorts of interesting
complications on a run.

-- Josh
Message no. 13
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:19:08 -0500
From: "Steve Mancini" <mancini@******.com>
Subject: Re: New campaign - with a dog?


> > 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read
one
> > Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)
>
> Cyberware + Animals = Not so stable beasts. Manageable at best.

Actually, in Critters the mentionings of cyberware are for the most part the
same as in people, EXCEPT for the control implants which are all -1 essence
each and lower the target numbers to make Handling tests (but then they
don't give you ideas of what a handling test for the animal is...)

> > 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I
figured
> > that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.
>
> If you read Shapeshifters, there are rules for "larger breeds"
> of animals, since lycanthropes are presumed to be larger breeds.

Yes, there are those things, just remember to be careful with what words go
where. The concept of "Lycanthrope" is a disease in RL, and in SR it
probably is as well. Some mutant vampiric virus I'd expect (dead pan
silence...)

> > 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?
>
> Never dismiss an idea in my book. Understand their expectations
> impose your limitations for sake of the game, if they can't
> accept them, then they have dismissed the idea/implementation :)

Completely agree with Steve here.

> > 5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what
to
> > expect?
>
> A looooooooong time ago I whipped together something called a
> Beast Master - a magical adept a la the movie idea for a woman
> who wanted to play with animals. It worked surprisingly well -
> but she had magic attribute points tied to certain animals so
> she was pretty protective of her allies.

Hmmm ... this sounds familiar, never happened in my games but I recall
conversation about it.

> Currently I have an NPC decker I have named Shakespeare who has
> an entourage of dogs (all named after characters, aka A Great Dane
> named Hamlet, etc.) who actually are trained to watch his flesh
> while he decks. The dogs are all trained, but their training and
> ability to react is based upon his Animal Handling Skill and
> their processing Intelligence (not to be confused with their
> perceptual intelligence). It has worked so far, and none of the
> dogs have died.. though I think when Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern
> do buy it the group will be sad and not realize it was their
> fate.
>
> Heads..... Heads.... Heads... Heads.. Heads.

Actually, sounds very familiar to what we do here, but the decker has only
one "dog"... "Billie the Barghest".... and the damndable amount of
chaos
that has created .... for instance ... and the other stories are
never-ending as well (never go roller-blading with the barghest on a leash
unless you are a REALLY prepared for some action).

"Billie" <Via the telecom on autoreply> "quick Billie, turn on the
red
button ... no Billie, not green that makes the car go...." (sudden strange
crunching noise)...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
NeoJudas ("K" to Friends)
"Children of the Kernel: Reborn"
(neojudas@******************.com)
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 14
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:41:21 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: NeoJudas <neojudas@******************.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, June 10, 2000 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: New campaign - with a dog?


>From: "Steve Mancini" <mancini@******.com>
>Subject: Re: New campaign - with a dog?
>
>
>> > 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read
>one
>> > Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)
>>
>> Cyberware + Animals = Not so stable beasts. Manageable at best.
>
>Actually, in Critters the mentionings of cyberware are for the most part
the
>same as in people, EXCEPT for the control implants which are all -1 essence
>each and lower the target numbers to make Handling tests (but then they
>don't give you ideas of what a handling test for the animal is...)
>


I think the 'No cyber for animals' rule was originally made to stop
superpowered animals ruining the game balance. Shadowrun has come a long way
since then, though, and the rule isn't really needed any more in my opinion.
Message no. 15
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:33:23 GMT
>From: "Carsten Gehling" <carsten@**********.dk>
>So my questions are:
>
>1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's
>trained
>or should I as GM run it?

Animal Handling Skill (Charisma)
This skill is used when giving orders to animals; when he wants to get the
dog to do something roll this skill against a certain TN depending on the
dog's intelligence, how simple the command is and shoot up the TN if it puts
the dog in danger or otherwise defys basic instinct. The GM cooses the
dog's exact action but he gets to influence it with this roll.
Default: Charisma
Specialisations: By animal type.

*Phil looks into Great Dragon training courses*

Up Lung, come on, good boy!

I encourage characters to keep pets, it adds depth to their character and
gives me something to kill when they annoy people.

>2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
>Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)

Try Critters, basicly you roll 1D6 verses the Critters essence, if the roll
equals or beats it, it attacks its handler. You could also look into
Gurth's Chromebook Conversions which has some neat cyberware specifcly for
critters.

>3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I figured
>that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.

Humm, try B4 Q4(x5) S4 C<snort> I2/4 W2 E6 Init4+1D6 Attacks6M

Not quite the large dog stats in Crtitters but if you fed one well and
trained it to be a "big bad ugly" dog this is about what you would get.

>4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

No way, this is a cool idea for a character. Make sure he pays for the dog
out of his resources though; Phil's Discount ANimal Warehouse will sell you
this kind of dog for 50¥ (minus Cyber).

>5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
>expect?

No, but I'd love to have a go, let me know how it works out.

Phil

...Unfortunatly one of them spotted our hidden microphone and followed the
extension cable back to the police station.
Milton Jones

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Message no. 16
From: Nightwinder nightwinder.geo@*****.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:49:48 +1000
Carsten Gehling wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Just starting a new campaign up, and one of my players wants to play a guy
> who runs a guard company on the side. No problem in that. The problem arised
> when he said: "I also want a trained dog, that is very close to me, and
> follows me on runs." Add to that his wish to implant some cyberware in the
> dog.
>
> Now, I'm the kind of guy, that would never say no to a great idea. Knowing
> the player, however, I have the nagging feeling, that he tries to get to run
> "two" characters, i.e. have to fighters in a fight.
>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1) Should I let him decide for himself, the dogs actions, since it's trained
> or should I as GM run it?

Do both. He gives the dog a command (e.g. "kill" *points at guard*) and then
you take over, running the dogs exact actions.

> 2) Are there any special rules regarding cyberware in animals? (I read one
> Shadowrun novel once, that described some guard dogs with implants)

Critters has what happens to Para's that get cybered (Psychotic tendencies
controlled by headware), but that's probably more a factor of the chrome
degrading/destroying their natural abilities.

Other than that, none that I can think of. Depending how the surgery went, the
dog would either be nuts or fairly normal. Think of the aftereffects of
vetinary surgery, but boost the poor doggie's speed/strength up the wazoo.

> 3) Does anyone have some stats for a big bad ugly Rottweiler? :-) I figured
> that the "dog" described in BBB 2nd ed. is just that; a standard dog.

The Critters book has the stats for Big Dogs.

> 4) Should I dismiss the idea completely, and if so: why?

I don't see why you should. I mean, he's going to have to pay for the dog and
the dog's cyberware isn't he?

> 5) Does any of you have similar experiences and can warn me about what to
> expect?

One of my PC's/fellow GM's has a Voudoun mambo with a German Shepherd. She uses
a Dikoted sword. ('Nuff said).
In combat situations, she possesses the dog with a work loa. The results are
frightening, since the dog is faster, stronger and tougher than the average ork
is. This also overrides the dog's natural tendencies, since the work loa is in
control.

> - Carsten
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> GC 3.12: GCS/M/P d- s+: a- C+++$>++++ UL++ P+>++ L+ !E W+++$
> N+ o K- w+++$ O- M-- V-- PGP t++@ 5+@ X++ R++ tv+(++) b+(++)
> DI++ D++ G++ e++ h-- r+++ y+++
Message no. 17
From: Carsten Gehling carsten@**********.dk
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:17:46 +0200
From: Nightwinder <nightwinder.geo@*****.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 1:49 PM

> I don't see why you should. I mean, he's going to have to pay for the dog
and
> the dog's cyberware isn't he?

Yes, which pops another question: How much nuyen from the starting resources
equals the effort and time that the character needs to use to train the dog?

I figure, that the dog alone costs around 500-1000 nuyen, and the cyberware
is 10-20% above normal pricing, since it isn't standard. But how much should
the training be worth?

- Carsten
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GC 3.12: GCS/M/P d- s+: a- C+++$>++++ UL++ P+>++ L+ !E W+++$
N+ o K- w+++$ O- M-- V-- PGP t++@ 5+@ X++ R++ tv+(++) b+(++)
DI++ D++ G++ e++ h-- r+++ y+++
Message no. 18
From: Carsten Gehling carsten@**********.dk
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:19:07 +0200
From: Ahrain <Ahrain-Drigar@**********.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 4:48 PM

> NAGtRL, page 68. mentions them in the Shadowtalk.
> M&M, page. 44
> Critter book, pg. 6 (from the GM Screen)
> Hope that helps
> If you don't have the books and want the info, let me know. I'll send it.

I don't have M&M, so any info from there would be appreciated. The Critter
book, is that the 3rd ed.? Then I don't have that either.

- Carsten
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GC 3.12: GCS/M/P d- s+: a- C+++$>++++ UL++ P+>++ L+ !E W+++$
N+ o K- w+++$ O- M-- V-- PGP t++@ 5+@ X++ R++ tv+(++) b+(++)
DI++ D++ G++ e++ h-- r+++ y+++
Message no. 19
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:45:48 +0200
According to Carsten Gehling, at 9:17 on 13 Jun 00, the word on the street
was...

> Yes, which pops another question: How much nuyen from the starting resources
> equals the effort and time that the character needs to use to train the dog?
>
> I figure, that the dog alone costs around 500-1000 nuyen, and the cyberware
> is 10-20% above normal pricing, since it isn't standard. But how much should
> the training be worth?

I'd call it a Buddy contact (10,000 nuyen) and leave it at that.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here come the golden oldies. Here come the Hezbollah.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 20
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:45:48 +0200
According to Carsten Gehling, at 9:19 on 13 Jun 00, the word on the street
was...

> I don't have M&M, so any info from there would be appreciated. The Critter
> book, is that the 3rd ed.? Then I don't have that either.

The Critters book comes with the SR3 GM screen. If you have the SRII main
rulebook, its Critters chapter has the same rules as the Critters book
about cyberware. M&M only refers to Critters for actual rules, and adds a
few (very minor) ones, mainly to deal with stuff like regeneration and
Awakened critters better.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here come the golden oldies. Here come the Hezbollah.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 21
From: Ahrain Ahrain-Drigar@**********.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:44:49 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Carsten Gehling <carsten@**********.dk>
Subject: Re: New campaign - with a dog?


> I don't have M&M, so any info from there would be appreciated. The Critter
> book, is that the 3rd ed.? Then I don't have that either.

Like Gurth said, the info is the same in the SR2 stuff, but just in
case.....

Critters, pg. 6
Cyberware for Critters
" Critters may be equipped with cyberware, usually bodyware specially
designed for them. The operations required to implant cyberware tend to
unhinge animals, making them vicious and barely controlable. Cyber-modified
animals are as likely to attack their handlers as their intended targets.
When unleashing such an animal, roll 1D6. If the result equals or exceeds
the animal's Essence, it will turn on its handler.
Headware designed to control this tendancy makes the animal less
intelligent and less perceptive, and further lowers its Essence. Each
control implant lowers Essence by 1 and subtracts 2 from the die roll made
when checking the animal's behavior. Each implant also lowers each of the
animal's Mental Attributes by 1."

Man and Machine, pg. 44
Cyberware and Critters
" Critters do not cope well with cyberware implants, which tend to
impeed their mental faculties and act as a source of unnatural irritation.
Rules for cybered critters appear on p. 6 of the Critters book.
Awakened creatures especially do not handle cyberware well, because it
reduces their Essence and diminishes the power of their abilities. The
cyberware of creatures that are transformed by the human-metahuman vampiric
virus (HMHVV) breaks during the transformation process, as described under
Infection, p. 33, SRComp.
Creatures with the regeneration power can only bear to have implants
for a short time. They tend to find implants incredibly painful and quickly
purge such devices from their bodies."

Man and Machine, pg. 79
Bioware and Critters
" Critters cope conciderably better with bioware than they do cyberware,
though corporations are rarely willing to conduct the research and design
animal-equivilant bioware, given the cost. Critters are subject to the same
bioware restrictions and drawbacks as characters.
Awakened critters also find their magical powers restricted by bioware,
the same as Awakened characters (see p. 78)"


Hope that helps.

Ahrain
Message no. 22
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: New campaign - with a dog?
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:51:44 GMT
>From: "Carsten Gehling" <carsten@**********.dk>
>Yes, which pops another question: How much nuyen from the starting
>resources
>equals the effort and time that the character needs to use to train the
>dog?

Have him buy a skill for dog handling; the BPs covering that, you may also
want to set a rate at which a character can "bond" an animal to him;
establish a trust with it.

>I figure, that the dog alone costs around 500-1000 nuyen, and the cyberware
>is 10-20% above normal pricing, since it isn't standard. But how much
>should
>the training be worth?

IIRC animal cyberware costs the same no matter who it is for. 1000¥ is a
bit steep for a dog, I think about 75 would be more realistic, does anyone
have Chromebook 3? That has some prices for animals in EB which normally
converts to ¥ on a 1:1 ratio.

Phil

...Unfortunatly one of them spotted our hidden microphone and followed the
extension cable back to the police station.
Milton Jones

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