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Message no. 1
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:24:52 -0500 (EST)
Hey guys...

You've heard me mention before a group that Me and Steve Tinner run
occasionally up at a local college. We keep running into problems because
nobody wants to get along. Well, I'm strating a new campaign, with new
characters, and hopefully, a new attitude...

I found an article called "For the Good of The Group" by Blackjack on
Paoplo's Archives (great site, Paoalo... Thanx). It really brought home a
lot of issues that I'd been having problems dealing with. Also, we've had
problems in the past due to an open gaming policy, where anyone can play.
This causes problems, and no offense, Tinner, but the morons don't go away
like you trhink they will, regardless of how you treat them. They come back
for more and get the wrong idea of how to play.

Well, here's my plan. I ran off several copies of that article, and I'm
going to pick 5 of the guys to play. No more, because it gets to be too
many and I can't stand having too many people playing.

They are all going to sit and read that article where I can see them, and
then they are going to talk about what type of group they want to form.
They are all going towork for somebody else, someone who's assembled this
team, and they are all going to have worked to gether for at least a year
before this, and are all friends, tosome extenet.

I'm also not allowing the typical "I hate Amerinds cause they killed my
girlfriend" or "I hate Orks" or whatever, cause invariably, they are going
to need to deal with that kind of character, usually it comes upas a player,
and I'm tired of trying todeal with attitudes from my players. They all
want to be someone with a chip on their shoulder,and honestly they can't
roleplay it well, otherwise it would be fin.

I'm going to force them to think, and to be creative, I want a team that is
balanced, and well rounded. Last couple times we rebuiltthe group, first
we had nothing but combat munchkins, then when we went to a lower ppower
game, I had nothing but Fixer wannabes and non combatants...

I'm ranting a bit here,and I know it. i'm sorry to those of you who don't
want to hear it. I'm hopefully doing what some of you have managed to do,
and what some of you would like to do. Give me your opinions on my ideas
here, and how you've done it if you've put together a good team. Advice
would be welcome.

I'm starting this Tomorrow Night (Thursday), and I'll keep you updated on
the outcome of it... I would really love to have a team taht got involved,
were good roleplayers, and played nicely with each other. I'll settle for a
team that plays nicely with each other...:) Ah welll...

Enough of my Yapping.... Let me know what you think...:)

-Bull-The-I-Got-A-Migraine-GM

<Now ya got me doing that, Caric!:)>



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 2
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:34:53 -0700
<SNIPPITY>
> I found an article called "For the Good of The Group" by Blackjack on
> Paoplo's Archives (great site, Paoalo... Thanx). It really brought home
a
> lot of issues that I'd been having problems dealing with. Also, we've
had
> problems in the past due to an open gaming policy, where anyone can play.
> This causes problems, and no offense, Tinner, but the morons don't go
away
> like you trhink they will, regardless of how you treat them. They come
back
> for more and get the wrong idea of how to play.

I'm going to go looking for that article, but if you might provide me with
a link in-case I'd appreciate it. Sounds like something I could really use.
;o)

Also, agreed on the morons not leaving issue. Caric, Rookie and I are all
caught in a web with a munckin-whiner. He keeps talkin' behind my back that
the mortality rate in our game is the highest he's ever seen. (Mind you
that I currently have seven other players that have seem to love the game
as is, and three of those seven are my core group playing for four years
now.) He also doesn't offer alot when it comes to planning stages (most
leaning to group suicide), and complains that his plans aren't taken
seriously by the rest of the group. He threatens to the others that'll he's
going to quit if his character dies. Yet won't say a thing on any of this
directly to me, so I can't act on it.

> Well, here's my plan. I ran off several copies of that article, and I'm
> going to pick 5 of the guys to play. No more, because it gets to be too
> many and I can't stand having too many people playing.

I really like keeping a group to no more than 6. Right now I have eight
players and it's a little loud and tough at times. Three of them, as I've
said, have gamed with me for four years now and with them knowing the game
and my style pretty good it helps keep some control.

The above mentioned munchkin hopefully might keep good his word to wuit,
which will drop the group number by one. Also, one of them works late on
our usual gaming night, so doesn't show up 'til about half-way through so
this helps some too.

(**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime to
explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
Security."

> They are all going to sit and read that article where I can see them, and
> then they are going to talk about what type of group they want to form.
> They are all going towork for somebody else, someone who's assembled this
> team, and they are all going to have worked to gether for at least a year
> before this, and are all friends, tosome extenet.

Good idea, but this seems to work only as it should with decent
role-players. Most newbies, munchkins, and morons aren't really able to
pull it off a background of any degree as a GM would like.

> I'm also not allowing the typical "I hate Amerinds cause they killed my
> girlfriend" or "I hate Orks" or whatever, cause invariably, they are
going
> to need to deal with that kind of character, usually it comes upas a
player,
> and I'm tired of trying todeal with attitudes from my players. They all
> want to be someone with a chip on their shoulder,and honestly they can't
> roleplay it well, otherwise it would be fin.

Haven't encountered this, fortunately, unless it comes up in a background
we've generated. Even then I'd only keep it if the player one I thought
would be able to handle it.

> I'm going to force them to think, and to be creative, I want a team that
is
> balanced, and well rounded. Last couple times we rebuiltthe group,
first
> we had nothing but combat munchkins, then when we went to a lower ppower
> game, I had nothing but Fixer wannabes and non combatants...

Been there. Had to instill my "no-more than two spell casters in the group
at one time" rule, cuz we had four magicians out of five players once. Now
I'm going to have to instill a "no more than one (maybe two) phys-ad in the
group at one time" rule, cuz I've now got three of them. (I'm trying to
portray a realistic idea of magic still only being 10% of the Awakened
World).

> Enough of my Yapping.... Let me know what you think...:)
>
> -Bull-The-I-Got-A-Migraine-GM
>
> <Now ya got me doing that, Caric!:)>

Loki-the-apologizing-for-turning-Caric-loose-GM

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 3
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:00:15 -0500 (EST)
><SNIPPITY>
>> I found an article called "For the Good of The Group" by Blackjack on
>> Paoplo's Archives (great site, Paoalo... Thanx)

Sorry I mangled your Name Paolo. It's Paolo Marcucci, for everyone out
there...:) Sorry again, I just can't type some days...:)

>
>I'm going to go looking for that article, but if you might provide me with
>a link in-case I'd appreciate it. Sounds like something I could really use.
> ;o)
>
Here ya go:

http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/blackjack/good.htm

>(**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime to
>explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
>S
Please Tell:)

>> They are all going to sit and read that article where I can see them, and
>> then they are going to talk about what type of group they want to form.
>> They are all going towork for somebody else, someone who's assembled this
>> team, and they are all going to have worked to gether for at least a year
>> before this, and are all friends, tosome extenet.
>
>Good idea, but this seems to work only as it should with decent
>role-players. Most newbies, munchkins, and morons aren't really able to
>pull it off a background of any degree as a GM would like.
>
I plan to babysit them and make sure they all fit... Also, I may do
something similar to Raven from teh old Wolf and Kid Stealth Stories... a
Benefactor who leads the team but isn't really a runner...

>> I'm going to force them to think, and to be creative, I want a team that
>is
>> balanced, and well rounded. Last couple times we rebuiltthe group,
>first
>> we had nothing but combat munchkins, then when we went to a lower ppower
>> game, I had nothing but Fixer wannabes and non combatants...
>
>Been there. Had to instill my "no-more than two spell casters in the group
>at one time" rule, cuz we had four magicians out of five players once. Now
>I'm going to have to instill a "no more than one (maybe two) phys-ad in the
>group at one time" rule, cuz I've now got three of them. (I'm trying to
>portray a realistic idea of magic still only being 10% of the Awakened
>World).
>
:grins... yup...:)

>> Enough of my Yapping.... Let me know what you think...:)
>>
>> -Bull-The-I-Got-A-Migraine-GM
>>
>> <Now ya got me doing that, Caric!:)>
>
>Loki-the-apologizing-for-turning-Caric-loose-GM
>
Noapologies necessary, Loki... I kinda like him... He's silly...:)



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 4
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:06:13 -0600 (MDT)
Loki wrote:
|
|Also, agreed on the morons not leaving issue. Caric, Rookie and I are all
|caught in a web with a munckin-whiner. He keeps talkin' behind my back that
|the mortality rate in our game is the highest he's ever seen. (Mind you
|that I currently have seven other players that have seem to love the game
|as is, and three of those seven are my core group playing for four years
|now.) He also doesn't offer alot when it comes to planning stages (most
|leaning to group suicide), and complains that his plans aren't taken
|seriously by the rest of the group. He threatens to the others that'll he's
|going to quit if his character dies. Yet won't say a thing on any of this
|directly to me, so I can't act on it.

<rant>

Don't put up with it. Either confront him him about his
remarks to others, or kill his character and call his
bluff. I'd recommend trying the confrontation first. Just
tell him that you've been told that he has some complaints
about your game and that you would like to know what those
complaints are and work towards resolving them. And then
don't back down (unless his arguements really are sound.
hey, it could happen). If he still gives you that "I'll
leave if my character dies" crap, tell him his character
dies of a heart attack and to have a nice life.

Do not let a serious whiner screw with your game. It'll
stress the players and you and everyone will suffer for
it. If he's just a shy kind of person that has problems
dealing with authority figures (the GM) then get the ball
rolling yourself and it should have a nice happy outcome.
If he is a munchkin/whiner then get rid of him.

</rant>

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 5
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:17:26 -0600 (MDT)
Steven Ratkovich wrote:
|
|Well, here's my plan. I ran off several copies of that article, and I'm
|going to pick 5 of the guys to play. No more, because it gets to be too
|many and I can't stand having too many people playing.
|
|They are all going to sit and read that article where I can see them, and
|then they are going to talk about what type of group they want to form.
|They are all going towork for somebody else, someone who's assembled this
|team, and they are all going to have worked to gether for at least a year
|before this, and are all friends, tosome extenet.

Let them know what you want too. Something like:

Let's have fun.
Pizza is a right, not a privalege.
The GM accepts bribes.
I want the team to work together.
I want to run a harsh, brutal game.
I will meet or exceed the PC's power levels (if
you've got a PAC, I'll have two). I.e., the PCs'
power level decides the power level of the
opposition.
Etc.

That's one of the things that I've learned. Players can't
meet expectations that they don't know about.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 6
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:17:51 -0700
<snip all of the ideas from Steve about his new group...they were good just
lengthy>

> I'm starting this Tomorrow Night (Thursday), and I'll keep you updated on
> the outcome of it... I would really love to have a team taht got
involved,
> were good roleplayers, and played nicely with each other. I'll settle
for a
> team that plays nicely with each other...:) Ah welll...
>
> Enough of my Yapping.... Let me know what you think...:)

Well I think what you are trying to accomplish is great it just may be hard
in practice. Look for players who haven't been playing munchkin for years
already so that they are not too set in their ways. It sounds like you
already have some people in mind. No group is ever going to get along all
the time (we come close, but sometimes we get into it) It helps if the
players are friends outside of game play a great deal. Sorry its early and
i'm rambling, but keep me posted on how it goes. Private e-mail if
everyone else would prefer.

caric@*******.com

> -Bull-The-I-Got-A-Migraine-GM
>
> <Now ya got me doing that, Caric!:)>

Well when you got it ya got it :)
Message no. 7
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:32:11 -0700
> Noapologies necessary, Loki... I kinda like him... He's silly...:)


<Blush> "garsh"
Message no. 8
From: Asher Rosenberg <ASROSENBERG@******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 10:52:23 -0700
Loki wrote:
>
> <SNIPPITY>

> Also, agreed on the morons not leaving issue. Caric, Rookie and I are all
> caught in a web with a munckin-whiner.
Just to clarify, Loki's not talking about me.
I may be a munchkin, but I'm not a whiner, or is that the other way
around?

> He keeps talkin' behind my back that the mortality rate in our game is the highest
he's ever seen.
Which is something I would have to agree with him about. However, IMHO,
the world of Shadowrun is more violent and deadly than most other RPG's.
Of course, the GM's attitude will affect the deadliness as well, but of
all the games I've played, only Cthulu was inherently more difficult to
survive.

> The above mentioned munchkin hopefully might keep good his word to wuit,
If P's really so unhappy, he should quit. After all, the idea behind any
RPG, including Shadowrun, is to have fun. If I was as unhappy as P
claims to be, I'd find another group to join, or something else to do on
Saturday nights.

> > -Bull-The-I-Got-A-Migraine-GM
> >
> > <Now ya got me doing that, Caric!:)>
>
> Loki-the-apologizing-for-turning-Caric-loose-GM
>
Asher-the-know-you-see-what-you've-released-player
Message no. 9
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:29:02 -0700
<SNIP-SNIP-SNIP>
> >I'm going to go looking for that article, but if you might provide me
with
> >a link in-case I'd appreciate it. Sounds like something I could really
use.
> > ;o)
> >
> Here ya go:
>
> http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/blackjack/good.htm

Thanx! I just went and picked it up. :o)

> >(**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime to
> >explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
> >Security".)
> Please Tell:)

OK, the Rod of Security is a little item me and the DM I had in AD$D came
up with (no flames for naming the other game). It more or less keeps me
from having to explain how a late-comer is able to find or catch up with
the group in the midst of a run, or when the others are hiding deep
under-cover from a corp. Inversely it allows gives an easy way out for a
early-leaver to vanish in the midst of things. Basically saving the GM work
and keeping the player from having to wait for a realistic entry point an
hour or so further into game play.

Every PC in my game has the Rod of Security as part of their equipment,
it's made of pink and white marble, aproximately six inches long and about
one inch in diameter. However, it only exists physically to that character,
therefore can never be taken from them or confiscated in anyway.

Rubbing this rod opens a temporary gateway to some nether-realm in a puff
of pink astral energy (all reference to pink is because it's a safe
non-hostile color). A PC having to leave the game early can then step
through this gate and be safely tucked away until next game play. A late
comer can activate the rod and will exit the gate where-ever the majority
of the group happens to be at the time. (Should the group be split up
evenly, a die roll will decide this.) The rod will not open the gate in the
presence of immediate peril (i.e. - in front of a speeding bullet, over the
side of a cliff, etc.) Activating the rod and moving through the gate
takes merely a free-action.

Also, the rod presents the GM with a nice advantage in that the group knows
anyone appearing in a puff of pink astral energy is friend and not foe. So
should a new player join the group at a time when logically they shouldn't
be trusting anyone they've never met before (i.e. - having a 2.5 millon ¥
bounty on their heads) they can still work in the newbie without an entire
gaming session dedicated to that particular encounter.

Anyway, that's the basics of it...

<SNIP>

> >> -Bull-The-I-Got-A-Migraine-GM
> >>
> >> <Now ya got me doing that, Caric!:)>
> >
> >Loki-the-apologizing-for-turning-Caric-loose-GM
> >
> Noapologies necessary, Loki... I kinda like him... He's silly...:)

Loki-the-retracting-apology-cuz-they-find-Caric-amusing-too-GM


CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 10
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:33:42 -0700
> Loki wrote:
> |
> |Also, agreed on the morons not leaving issue. Caric, Rookie and I are
all
> |caught in a web with a munckin-whiner. He keeps talkin' behind my back
that
> |the mortality rate in our game is the highest he's ever seen. (Mind you
> |that I currently have seven other players that have seem to love the
game
> |as is, and three of those seven are my core group playing for four years
> |now.) He also doesn't offer alot when it comes to planning stages (most
> |leaning to group suicide), and complains that his plans aren't taken
> |seriously by the rest of the group. He threatens to the others that'll
he's
> |going to quit if his character dies. Yet won't say a thing on any of
this
> |directly to me, so I can't act on it.
>
> <rant>
>
> Don't put up with it. Either confront him him about his
> remarks to others, or kill his character and call his
> bluff. I'd recommend trying the confrontation first. Just
> tell him that you've been told that he has some complaints
> about your game and that you would like to know what those
> complaints are and work towards resolving them. And then
> don't back down (unless his arguements really are sound.
> hey, it could happen). If he still gives you that "I'll
> leave if my character dies" crap, tell him his character
> dies of a heart attack and to have a nice life.
>
> Do not let a serious whiner screw with your game. It'll
> stress the players and you and everyone will suffer for
> it. If he's just a shy kind of person that has problems
> dealing with authority figures (the GM) then get the ball
> rolling yourself and it should have a nice happy outcome.
> If he is a munchkin/whiner then get rid of him.
>
> </rant>
>
> -David

Agreed.

I've talked it over with Caric and Rookie, two of my core players and they
say pretty much the same. Try talking to him once (and once only) and if it
continues then tell him not to let the door him him in thass on the way
out.

I just feel having to go to him because he's been sniping behind my back is
giving him what he wants (he's not just shy), and I hate manipulating
little snits like that. But I am more concerned on whats better for the
group. P works with me, I'll try dropping him an inter-office e-mail on it
today and see what comes.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 11
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:47:51 -0700
> Loki wrote:
> >
> > <SNIPPITY>
>
> > Also, agreed on the morons not leaving issue. Caric, Rookie and I are
all
> > caught in a web with a munckin-whiner.
> Just to clarify, Loki's not talking about me.
> I may be a munchkin, but I'm not a whiner, or is that the other way
> around?

Asher's correct. He's got a wee-bit-o-the-munchkin in him, like Rookie did
to start. But it's already been agreed that he's moldable, and is already
showing some decent role-playing potential with his current character.

> > He keeps talkin' behind my back that the mortality rate in our game is
the highest he's ever seen.
> Which is something I would have to agree with him about. However, IMHO,
> the world of Shadowrun is more violent and deadly than most other RPG's.
> Of course, the GM's attitude will affect the deadliness as well, but of
> all the games I've played, only Cthulu was inherently more difficult to
> survive.

Character's die, its a fact of RPG's. As I've said I've talked it over with
the other players and they don't seem to have a problem with our gaming
style. If there was a prblem I don't think Caric, Rookie and Seth would
have stuck with me for four years. Also, if there is no risk of
mortality...what's the pride in saying you've been playing your character
for X number of years now?

> > The above mentioned munchkin hopefully might keep good his word to
wuit,
> If P's really so unhappy, he should quit. After all, the idea behind any
> RPG, including Shadowrun, is to have fun. If I was as unhappy as P
> claims to be, I'd find another group to join, or something else to do on
> Saturday nights.

I'm going to try to confront him on this before the next game. I'll
more-or-less point out that hitting yourself in the head with a hammer
hurts, so people don't do it. If my game is as painful to him as he's been
telling you others then it's best for him to stop or find someway to make
it enjoyable.

However, if six or seven others of you like how it is, I'm not going to
change a working formula for one who's got a problem.

> > > -Bull-The-I-Got-A-Migraine-GM
> > >
> > > <Now ya got me doing that, Caric!:)>
> >
> > Loki-the-apologizing-for-turning-Caric-loose-GM
> >
> Asher-the-know-you-see-what-you've-released-player

Loki-tired-of-coddling-whiners-GM

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 12
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:48:37 -0700
>
> Agreed.
>
> I've talked it over with Caric and Rookie, two of my core players and
they
> say pretty much the same. Try talking to him once (and once only) and if
it
> continues then tell him not to let the door him him in thass on the way
> out.
>
> I just feel having to go to him because he's been sniping behind my back
is
> giving him what he wants (he's not just shy), and I hate manipulating
> little snits like that. But I am more concerned on whats better for the
> group. P works with me, I'll try dropping him an inter-office e-mail on
it
> today and see what comes.
>
> @>-,--'--- Loki

Well just so ya know Loki whatever goes down Rookie, Chet and I will back
you up so don't feel like your going it alone.

Caric-the-standing-by-his-GM-shaman
Message no. 13
From: Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:59:35 -0500 (CDT)
Well, Shadowrun is deadly, no doubt, but try Twilight:2000, which has the
most realistic combat system I've ever seen. Basically, if you get shot,
you are in trouble. If you don't receive IMMEADIATE medical attention, it
ups to bigger trouble. And if it gets infected, which it probably will
given the environment most are in, you might as well kiss your ass
good-bye. Another game with a HIGH mortality rate inherent in the rules
is Cyberpunk. One good shot from a .44 mag and most characters are down,
probably dead. In CP2020, you can't roll to reduce damage, like in SRII,
you just have to trust to your armor to ameliorate it. Or shoot the other
guy first... :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Orion Jackson~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TAMS Class of 1996/UT Class of 199?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~2112 Guadalupe, Rm. 502; Austin, Tx 78705 (The Goodall-Wooten)~~~~~~~
"Goddamn creatures of the night, they never learn." ~Gideon, _The Crow_
Message no. 14
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:05:28 -0700
> > Agreed.
> >
> > I've talked it over with Caric and Rookie, two of my core players and
> they
> > say pretty much the same. Try talking to him once (and once only) and
if
> it
> > continues then tell him not to let the door him him in thass on the way
> > out.
> >
> > I just feel having to go to him because he's been sniping behind my
back
> is
> > giving him what he wants (he's not just shy), and I hate manipulating
> > little snits like that. But I am more concerned on whats better for the
> > group. P works with me, I'll try dropping him an inter-office e-mail
on
> it
> > today and see what comes.
> >
> > @>-,--'--- Loki
>
> Well just so ya know Loki whatever goes down Rookie, Chet and I will back
> you up so don't feel like your going it alone.
>
> Caric-the-standing-by-his-GM-shaman

Hey!! Don't stand there, I might take a stray bullet...then where would
your world be? :o)

J/K, actually I appreciate it. <Sigh> the duties of a GM...


Loki-the-going-to-talk-to-P-GM

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 15
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:07:04 -0700
> Well, Shadowrun is deadly, no doubt, but try Twilight:2000, which has the
> most realistic combat system I've ever seen. Basically, if you get shot,
> you are in trouble. If you don't receive IMMEADIATE medical attention, it
> ups to bigger trouble. And if it gets infected, which it probably will
> given the environment most are in, you might as well kiss your ass
> good-bye. Another game with a HIGH mortality rate inherent in the rules
> is Cyberpunk. One good shot from a .44 mag and most characters are down,
> probably dead. In CP2020, you can't roll to reduce damage, like in
SRII,
> you just have to trust to your armor to ameliorate it. Or shoot the
other
> guy first... :)

Thanx for pointing this out. I might copy this over and forward it to P at
work before talking to him. Gotta keep in mind this guy is used to
Champions and his Monty Haul style of BattleTech. (No flames for game names
please.)

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 16
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:17:28 -0600 (MDT)
Loki wrote:
|
|> >(**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime to
|> >explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
|> >Security".)
|> Please Tell:)

[snip: description of Rods of Security and how they work]

In my SRII game I had a very powerful NPC acquire blood and
tissue samples of all the characters (they were hired as
security for a remote biological research lab and had to
give blood and tissue samples just in case there was a
containment breach). Now the NPC uses those samples with
ritual magic to summon the PCs when he needs them (player
can't make the game because their wife made other plans :(
The PC is surrounded by whirling blue bands of magic and
then they and the bands fade away. When the player comes
back next week the bands and the PC appear with the group,
and the PC can't remember what happened (and sometimes is
injured).

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 17
From: Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:24:22 -0500 (CDT)
Monty Haul or Mounting Hill (of loot)? ;) Ahh, the days of basic D&D in
the chessy-ass red box... :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Orion Jackson~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TAMS Class of 1996/UT Class of 199?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~2112 Guadalupe, Rm. 502; Austin, Tx 78705 (The Goodall-Wooten)~~~~~~~
"Goddamn creatures of the night, they never learn." ~Gideon, _The Crow_
Message no. 18
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:30:53 -0700
<SNIPPITY SNIP SNIP SNIP>

> Hey!! Don't stand there, I might take a stray bullet...then where would
> your world be? :o)
>
Well to quote Dennis Leary..."We live in a world where John Lennon takes
six bullets in the chest...Yoko Ono is standing right next to him...not one
f**king bullet."

So I feel pretty safe.

> J/K, actually I appreciate it. <Sigh> the duties of a GM...

> Loki-the-going-to-talk-to-P-GM

Caric-the-running-with-scissors-shaman
Message no. 19
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:48:05 -0500 (EST)
<Snip Rod of Security>

>Anyway, that's the basics of it...
>
Interesting Concept, Loki. I kinda like it...:) A bit AD&Dish,but that's
ok... I still like that game too, just don't play it anymore...

<And please,no flames,just my opinion...:)>

-Bull-The-I'm-Saving-These-Silly-Quotes-For-The-Hell-Of-It:)



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 20
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:50:04 -0500 (EST)
<snip comments on whiner>

>Agreed.
>
>I've talked it over with Caric and Rookie, two of my core players and they
>say pretty much the same. Try talking to him once (and once only) and if it
>continues then tell him not to let the door him him in thass on the way
>out.
>
>I just feel having to go to him because he's been sniping behind my back is
>giving him what he wants (he's not just shy), and I hate manipulating
>little snits like that. But I am more concerned on whats better for the
>group. P works with me, I'll try dropping him an inter-office e-mail on it
>today and see what comes.
>
<Bull nods>

Good luck,my friend. Let us know how this turns out...:)



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 21
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:53:54 -0500 (EST)
> @>-,--'--- Loki
>
>Well just so ya know Loki whatever goes down Rookie, Chet and I will back
>you up so don't feel like your going it alone.
>
>Caric-the-standing-by-his-GM-shaman
>
>
Sounds like you got a couple of good players there, Loki...:)



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 22
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:49:28 -0700
> <Snip Rod of Security>
>
> >Anyway, that's the basics of it...
> >
> Interesting Concept, Loki. I kinda like it...:) A bit AD&Dish,but
that's
> ok... I still like that game too, just don't play it anymore...
>
> <And please,no flames,just my opinion...:)>
>
> -Bull-The-I'm-Saving-These-Silly-Quotes-For-The-Hell-Of-It:)

Not a complaint mind you, but is there ever a stretch of time longer than
fifteen minutes that you aren't checking your mail Bull?

I think its cool, you must have a job like mine where you sit in front of a
computer all day long.

Caric-the-thinking-we-should-have-a-convention-shaman

P.S. We'll write a book and make millions.
'course we're probably the only ones who think it's funny but oh well
<shrug>
Message no. 23
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:02:05 -0500 (EST)
>Monty Haul or Mounting Hill (of loot)? ;) Ahh, the days of basic D&D in
>the chessy-ass red box... :)
>
Red Box? I remember just a black and white booklet, with maybe a brown
cover... That was two edition before the red box,I believe...:)

And that was nothing but Monty Haul...:)

Unfortuneately,because that's the game system taht somany gamers learned
on,and thatwas the favored styleofgaming,some gamers willforeverbe stuckin
the shoot-the-bad-guy-take-his-stuff-get-xpmode, andit carried over into
everygame theyplay...:)

Bull-The-Ranting-GM-Who's-Space-Bar-Is-Wearing-Out



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 24
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:03:45 -0500 (EST)
>>In my SRII game I had a very powerful NPC acquire blood and
>tissue samples of all the characters (they were hired as
>security for a remote biological research lab and had to
>give blood and tissue samples just in case there was a
>containment breach). Now the NPC uses those samples with
>ritual magic to summon the PCs when he needs them (player
>can't make the game because their wife made other plans :(
>The PC is surrounded by whirling blue bands of magic and
>then they and the bands fade away. When the player comes
>back next week the bands and the PC appear with the group,
>and the PC can't remember what happened (and sometimes is
>injured).
>
>-David
>
Evil GM... Very evil...:)

I like it...:)



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 25
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:23:07 -0500 (EST)
>Not a complaint mind you, but is there ever a stretch of time longer than
>fifteen minutes that you aren't checking your mail Bull?
>
>I think its cool, you must have a job like mine where you sit in front of a
>computer all day long.
>
Actually, I'm not employed at the moment... Looking,but not employed...:)
I am, however a part time college student who checks his mail about a dozen
times a day for two reason...

A) It usually brightens my day...:)

B) Because my comp is reallyaWord Processor that got a slight promotion and
a swelled head. I have a 50 meg hard drive, and 45 of that's taken up...
If I didn't check my mail often enough and delete most of it, my comp would
explode...:)

>Caric-the-thinking-we-should-have-a-convention-shaman
>
-Bull-The-Checking-His-Mail-Again-And-Hoping-His-Comp-Can-Handle-It

>P.S. We'll write a book and make millions.
>'course we're probably the only ones who think it's funny but oh well
><shrug>

Sounds good...:)

BTW, caric, you seem to be around quite a bit yourself...;-)

Plus, I spend a good deal of time MUSHing and just leave the mail open,and
answer them as they come in...:)



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 26
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:28:50 -0700
> BTW, caric, you seem to be around quite a bit yourself...;-)
>

True I sit here in my little troubleshooting cubicle next to Rookie and
read my mail while solving the worlds problems. :)

> Plus, I spend a good deal of time MUSHing and just leave the mail
open,and
> answer them as they come in...:)
>
>
You may have said before, but where are are you and Tinner anyway?


Caric-the-loafing-off-at-work-shaman
Message no. 27
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:41:54 -0500 (EST)
>You may have said before, but where are are you and Tinner anyway?
>
>Caric-the-loafing-off-at-work-shaman
>
Northern Ohio, just half hour east of the lovely city of Cleveland, along
teh crystal blue waters of Lake Erie...

Where are you and Lok iand gang from?

-Bull-The-Telling-Caric's-Boss-About-His-Loafing



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 28
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:41:49 -0700
> Where are you and Lok iand gang from?
>

We're down here in Phoenix (or thereabouts) Arizona...and yes its damn hot.


> -Bull-The-Telling-Caric's-Boss-About-His-Loafing

go ahead cal 1-888-4IOMEGA :)

'course it'll cost ya 14.99 :p~~


Caric-the-tech-supportin'-shaman
Message no. 29
From: Asher Rosenberg <ASROSENBERG@******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 14:48:22 -0700
Loki wrote:
> >
> > > Also, agreed on the morons not leaving issue. Caric, Rookie and I are all
> > > caught in a web with a munckin-whiner.
> > Just to clarify, Loki's not talking about me.
> > I may be a munchkin, but I'm not a whiner, or is that the other way
> > around?
>
> Asher's correct. He's got a wee-bit-o-the-munchkin in him, like Rookie did
> to start. But it's already been agreed that he's moldable,
Thanks, I think.

> and is already showing some decent role-playing potential with his current
character.

And I was just trying to find a creative way to kill her because she was
so underpowered. :-)

> Loki-tired-of-coddling-whiners-GM
Asher-the-scared-his-GM's-going-to-get-nasty-player
Message no. 30
From: "Rookie" <rookie@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:48:16 -0600
And when it comes the living will envy the Dead!

Rookie@*******.com
55464@**.ev.maricopa.edu
http://www.netzone.com/~rookie

----------
> From: Asher Rosenberg <ASROSENBERG@******.com>
> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Subject: Re: new game
> Date: Thursday, October 03, 1996 3:48 PM
>
> Loki wrote:
> > >
> > > > Also, agreed on the morons not leaving issue. Caric, Rookie and I
are all
> > > > caught in a web with a munckin-whiner.
> > > Just to clarify, Loki's not talking about me.
> > > I may be a munchkin, but I'm not a whiner, or is that the other way
> > > around?
> >
> > Asher's correct. He's got a wee-bit-o-the-munchkin in him, like Rookie
did
> > to start. But it's already been agreed that he's moldable,
> Thanks, I think.
>
> > and is already showing some decent role-playing potential with his
current character.
>
> And I was just trying to find a creative way to kill her because she was
> so underpowered. :-)
>
Asher maybe if you would listen to us and not of put your body at 1. ;)

-Rookie

> > Loki-tired-of-coddling-whiners-GM
> Asher-the-scared-his-GM's-going-to-get-nasty-player
Message no. 31
From: "Rookie" <rookie@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:35:12 -0600
----------
> From: Rookie <rookie@*******.com>
> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Subject: Re: new game
> Date: Thursday, October 03, 1996 3:48 PM
>
> > > Loki-tired-of-coddling-whiners-GM

Loki you didn't coddle me did you?

-Rookie

And when it comes the living will envy the Dead!

Rookie@*******.com
55464@**.ev.maricopa.edu
http://www.netzone.com/~rookie
Message no. 32
From: Faux Pas <fauxpas@******.net>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:00:53 -0500
At 02:24 PM 10/3/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Monty Haul or Mounting Hill (of loot)? ;) Ahh, the days of basic D&D in
>the chessy-ass red box... :)
>

Blue box, youngster. Came with cut-out chits if you couldn't find those
odd-sided dice in your area. Anyone remember the three manilla-covered 5
1/2" by 4 1/4" rule books that came out before the blue box?

-Thomas Deeny
the Cartoonist at large is [theoretically] on the web at
www2.cy-net.net/~fauxpas

"Cat on my head! Cat on my head!"
-Dr. Chris Cooper, _Kids in the Hall: Brain Candy_
Message no. 33
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:16:57 -0700
> <SNIPPITY SNIP SNIP SNIP>
>
> > Hey!! Don't stand there, I might take a stray bullet...then where would
> > your world be? :o)
> >
> Well to quote Dennis Leary..."We live in a world where John Lennon takes
> six bullets in the chest...Yoko Ono is standing right next to him...not
one
> f**king bullet."
>
> So I feel pretty safe.

Hey, if you want to imply you're Yoko to my John Lennon...
(I'm not gowing to go any further on that one.)

Loki-the-noticing-the-Monkees-have-reunitied-including-Mike-Nesmith-GM
Message no. 34
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:53:53 -0700
> <snip comments on whiner>
>
> >Agreed.
> >
> >I've talked it over with Caric and Rookie, two of my core players and
they
> >say pretty much the same. Try talking to him once (and once only) and if
it
> >continues then tell him not to let the door him him in thass on the way
> >out.

<SNIP comment on having to approuach whiner and sending him an e-mail>

> <Bull nods>
>
> Good luck,my friend. Let us know how this turns out...:)

OK, I dropped him the e-mail today. Apple Mail (yes, I tech support Macs
though I own a Pentium at home) was slow today, so apparently he didn't get
it before his shift was over. It'll be waiting when he gets there tomorrow.

I've tagged on what I sent him below. **For those who don't care, skip on
to the next message. ** Some of you (as Bull above) have shown interest,
and possibly even sympathize from similar GM experience. Anyways if you
want to look it over and comment, it's appreciated. I hate hurting people's
feelings, but sometimes you can just be too nice. He's affecting my group,
so I've tried to be diplomatic yet still make my point.

Loki-the-having-to be-firm-GM

(W/O knowing this person or our group personally, some of this may not mean
much, but the basic message is there. For reference sake: Craig is Caric
and Tim is Rookie.)




-----Lengthy message to Munchkin/Whiner follows-----


Paul,

I've been told by Craig, Tim, Asher and Kelly that you've talked to each of
them about being unhappy with S/R and how we play. You've never actually
come to me directly though. I've been waiting for you to say something, but
over this past week I've gotten several e-mails from the guys and have been
told by Kelly that at the last game you even mentioned quitting if Mac
dies. Your feelings are starting to affect to group morale, so after
talking to Tim and Craig over coffee the other night (having played with me
for four years now, I trust their opinions), here I am.

Your first and most prominent concern seems to be that "this game has the
highest mortality rate of any group you've been in." I will grant that the
Shadowrun environment is a harsh one, full of violence and hostility, with
a prominent streak of paranoia and "us against them" attitude. Reading the
novels and looking through the sourcebooks, you should already understand
that's the game's genre. I do my best to portray this, and believe I do so
quite effectively. Hearing your concerns, I have talked to each of the
other seven players. All of them have told me though they acknowledge the
lethality of the game, they wouldn't change it. A couple have even
expressed that the way it stands really drives home the attitude of the 6th
World, where a miss-step or ill-planning will more than likely lead to
injury or death. You are Shadowrunners, this is your life. I have GM'd the
game for seven years now. Tim, Craig and Seth have played with me for four
of those years. I'm pretty confident if I was coming off as a
munchkin/killer GM, or my players felt the game was too harsh I would know
by now (or the guys wouldn't have gamed with me for this long).

I'd posted your concern over the mortality rate as a topic of conversation
on my S/R mailing list. Most of the other GM's held my stance. One even
suggested if you think S/R is harsh you need to sit on some sessions of
Twilight 2000 or CyberPunk 2020. Twilight touts the most realistic combat
and damage system; a gunshot wound will pretty much take out your PC, and
if it doesn't the wound will worsen and possibly even infect. CP 2020
doesn't have damage reduction rolls, you have to trust your armor to do
what it can and then take what's left. A punk with a Colt .44 in either
game will pretty much have you shredding a character sheet.

Craig also made a good point that he, Tim, and Seth are going through a
character selection and familiarity phase right now after losing 3-year-old
veteran characters in Harlequin's Back. They're having to find new
character's they're comfortable with and have lost a few because of
over-estimating the capabilities of these fledglings when they'd been used
to playing characters that had accumulated 200-300 karma by the end of
their career.

It's also been expressed that the group for the most part doesn't want an
easy game. I know the core group (myself included) has expressed a distaste
for Monty Haul style gaming. The guys like to earn their rewards, and work
for their karma. Where's the bragging rights for a 2-year-old character
that's never seen death's doorway. A PC's glory days and war stories are
muted when he's never gotten a scar or bullet holes in his armor.

This area may also be some of the lack of interest you're finding in Craig,
Tim and I over BattleTech. In only four or five B/T sessions Rogue's more
or less been given a potent Mech, the others have gotten some serious
upgrades, we've found a mint condition Starleague Mech and THOUSANDS of
dollars worth of Starleague cache, we're all at respectable status with the
AA Mercs (having just signed on with them, and me even being Clan)...and
all we've dealt with is simulators - no real combat, no challenges or
risks, no work for it. It's obvious we have two different GM styles, and
maybe this is where the differences lie.

Basically on this point I just want you to know I won't be changing much of
how the game is run. I won't alter a formula that works for the other seven
of the group, because one is uncomfortable.

The other area really brought up by you seems to be that the group doesn't
let you contribute plans/ideas, or talks right over you when you do. This
is something I feel you need to handle with them. I leave player relations
issues as just that, PLAYER relations issues. As GM I am neutral: referee,
story-teller, antagonist and ally...reaction to PC action. I leave group
discussion, planning, and interaction to you players and will not direct or
control it, problems here should be dealt with inter-group.

Now I grant that Tim is rather boisterous. He will bull you over if you
don't come back at him with the same. Watch how Craig handles him. Even
Seth, who is usually soft spoken will begin to raise his voice to a level
to talk over Tim when the time comes. You also need to consider that these
three guys are veterans, as my core group of four years they know the game
and my GMing style rather well. This kind of seniority will give them a
feeling of superiority when it comes to group planning and discussion and
may lead them to be rather abrupt. You'll have to call them on it or find a
way to deal with it, again it's between you and them.

As for your attitude that if Mac dies, you're going to quit playing. It's
not going to change the game or my GMing style. I also don't coddle or
cater to players that take that approach. Cameron did it with Moira and
tore up her character sheet in a huff, he hasn't played in our group since
that night. Pretty much my suggestion is this - Hitting yourself in the
head with a hammer hurts, so most people don't do it. If you're unhappy
with how I run my game, and you think the game universe is too brutal for
your taste, don't play...no one will force you to or blame you if you
don't. If you think you can adjust to it, then you're welcome to stay and
should talk with the other players on your plans and ideas being ignored.
Either way you need to stop sitting at the table miserable, it affects the
rest of us and then you have nine people unhappy and not enjoying
themselves.


-- Jim
Message no. 35
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:56:05 -0700
> >Well just so ya know Loki whatever goes down Rookie, Chet and I will
back
> >you up so don't feel like your going it alone.
> >
> >Caric-the-standing-by-his-GM-shaman
> >
> >
> Sounds like you got a couple of good players there, Loki...:)

Yup! Caric, Rookie and Seth (not on the list) have proven to be buds on
more than one occasion. :o)

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 36
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:59:47 -0700
> >You may have said before, but where are are you and Tinner anyway?
> >
> >Caric-the-loafing-off-at-work-shaman
> >
> Northern Ohio, just half hour east of the lovely city of Cleveland, along
> teh crystal blue waters of Lake Erie...
>
> Where are you and Lok iand gang from?
>
> -Bull-The-Telling-Caric's-Boss-About-His-Loafing

Arizona --> Phoenix Sprawl. Mesa, Tempe, and Ahwatukee areas mostly.

Loki-the-asnswering-questions-as-if-his-players-were-puppets-GM

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 37
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:03:40 -0700
> > Asher's correct. He's got a wee-bit-o-the-munchkin in him, like Rookie
did
> > to start. But it's already been agreed that he's moldable,
> Thanks, I think.

You're welcome, I believe.

> > and is already showing some decent role-playing potential with his
current character.
>
> And I was just trying to find a creative way to kill her because she was
> so underpowered. :-)

"She's USELESS now!" - quoting Cameron, a former player when his PhysAd
took a deadly and lost a magic point. (As has Asher's PhysAd...hmmmmm.)
:o)

> Asher-the-scared-his-GM's-going-to-get-nasty-player

Loki-the-realizing-Asher-is-naive-GM :o)
Message no. 38
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:06:27 -0700
> > > > Loki-tired-of-coddling-whiners-GM
>
> Loki you didn't coddle me did you?
>
> -Rookie

You were 100% Munchkin when you started, but not a whiner.

A GM doesn't coddle a pure Munchkin, he slaps 'em around a bit and sees if
they'll shape up.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 39
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:48:18 -0700 (PDT)
On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Loki wrote:

> > And I was just trying to find a creative way to kill her because she was
> > so underpowered. :-)
>
> "She's USELESS now!" - quoting Cameron, a former player when his PhysAd
> took a deadly and lost a magic point. (As has Asher's PhysAd...hmmmmm.)

When Celt lost her first magic point, I was stunned. She took a deadly
wound in a fight with a PC. The Player asked us to help get rid of her
character. Since my character was so volatile, she had her character
insult mine, and the fight began. My character got hit by a botch by
another PC, who was backing Celt up. Celt was two months old at that
point, (she two years now) and I had put so much work into her that I
couldn't let her go that easily.

Last week, she took her second deadly wound, and her second MP lost. (I
rolled real poor. :( Now the fun begins as she realises she is limiting
herself. She drinks too much, and her Geas is no alcohol.


Hey, that brings up a question I have:


Obviously, a Geas taken as part of Initiation is known to the mage/shaman,
but... Are Geasa due to magic loss from deadly wounds and the like
automatically known to the mage/shaman?

What I am doing right now, is my character has finally gotten better.
(Real shitty, being the only magic on a team, when a run goes real sour.
I think it was Elven Fire) I digress. After being given a clean bill of
health, life as usual began. A drink relaxing, watching trid, reading
magic things... She's in for a shock when she has to summon or cast...
As for the magic point lost, she is aware that she is weaker, and 'cause
it happened before, she knows why she feels weaker.

I had another question pop into my brain, but Wernicke and Broca have
taken it from me. (Back to the books!)


--
AJ Schaafsma Dvixen@****.spydernet.com
This post in wo nay reflect opinions of the myriad voice my head.
Message no. 40
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:29:30 -0500 (EST)
<Snipped letter to whiner from Loki>

Good job, Loki. Firm, but letting him know that you're concerned about
keeping the game fun for all, including him if he wants to stay. I always
have trouble there because I hate to sound like an ass, and will sometimes
put up with stuff that I shouldn't.

The problem with this is that after a while, It gets to be too much and I
get really upset, sometimes blowing up at a player or the group, which
reflects badly on me.

Well handled.

That being said, I figured I'd let you all know how tonite's new game
session went. In one word "hopeful". I pretty much just had everyone read
a printout of Blackjack's article, "For the Good of teh Group", then spent
the rest of the night doing character creation and team developement.

I basically gave them a brief overview of the situation they'll start in.
They are all part of a team that was put together a year,maybe year and a
half ago by a fixer type named Raven. Anyone familiar with some of the old
Wolf/Kid Stealth stories from old Challenge (??) magazines will recognize
the name and concept. I'm also using bits of Stackpole's Dark Conspiracy
Trilogy.

Well, the point is, they have all known each other, and worked with each
other for at least a year. they all trust each other by this point, as well
as Raven, and are even somewhat friends. I left exactly how close a
friendship it was to them.

I also had them create characters that were going to be compatible with each
other, and had them discuss with each other what they wanted from teh game,
the team, and each other. I'm trying to avoid the massive conflicting
personalities that usually crops up in my games... <sigh>

This seemed to work well, and I have four core members that I'm working
with. Two are players with a knowledge of the game, and a decent grasp on
role-playing, but they're the type of players who are usually quiet and just
do their job. they aren't usually outspoken, or come up with plans and
ideas. however, they are being forced into the leadership seat due to the
fact that of the four, they are the two that know the rules. They are both
playing basic charcters, nothing fancy. one is a bodyguard, and the other
is a skill based character. good fighting skills, but no cyber or bio...

The third player is a younger kid, maybe about 13 or 14. He has a lot to
learn about gaming, although he enjoys it immensly. unfortunately, he is a
blatant and admitted munchkin. he's playing a somewhat low power rigger
character, and since we made them work together to make their characters and
make backgrounds and such, he actually has a personality. My goal is to
teach him to role play better, and keep him from munchkinizing this time...:)

Last I have a new player to SR, and a fairly new gamer. unfortunately, his
only real gaming experience was a brief stint in a Star Wars game I ran one
night as a one shot about a year ago that got real silly real fast, and the
various White Wolf games. I hate to say it, but I really loathe the WW
games. The payers in the area leave much to be desired, and they love to
play the game in a style I call political combat. They run around yelling
that they believe in such and such, then kill everyone else who doesn't
agree. No role playing neceessaryt there, so... He needs work. he's
playing a Shaman, and as he doesn't know the world, or the magic system, I'm
teaching him step by step. he's not startingout with a totem... rather,he
just follows the spirits for now. Once he's played a game or two, I'll see
how he plays and have his Totem choose him... I'll pick one that fits his
personality...:)

Well, that's the basic group right there. They are raw, but seem eager
about the way I'm setting up the game, and I think have the potential to
role play well. I'm hoping that these characters will develop well beyond
the normal scope of what happens during adventures, but venture into their
personal lives... What these characters do between runs... Girlfriends,
Family, Etc... I want it to be more than just a couple notes on paper... i
want it to be real...

Ah well,that's how it went... Comments or sugggestions?

-Bull-The-Hopeful-Decker-Turned-GM



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******

"I say we go back to the ship, and nuke the
site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Ripley, "Aliens"
Message no. 41
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:17:37 +0100 (BST)
|Also, the rod presents the GM with a nice advantage in that the group knows
|anyone appearing in a puff of pink astral energy is friend and not foe. So
|should a new player join the group at a time when logically they shouldn't
|be trusting anyone they've never met before (i.e. - having a 2.5 millon %
|bounty on their heads) they can still work in the newbie without an entire
|gaming session dedicated to that particular encounter.

Ahhhh, but what's to stop the BigBadGuy (tm) from teleporting in with a
programed illusion of pink puffy smoke?
It presents an advantage to any evil-doer who has observed the
phenominon....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 42
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:39:28 +0100
Michael Orion Jackson said on 13:59/ 3 Oct 96...

> Well, Shadowrun is deadly, no doubt, but try Twilight:2000, which has the
> most realistic combat system I've ever seen.

I don't find SR all that deadly. Characters with a high Body and good
armor will stand up to most shots with L or M damage, and at times S too.
(also in part because you tend to miss if you fire too many rounds).

> Basically, if you get shot, you are in trouble. If you don't receive
> IMMEADIATE medical attention, it ups to bigger trouble. And if it gets
> infected, which it probably will given the environment most are in, you
> might as well kiss your ass good-bye. Another game with a HIGH
> mortality rate inherent in the rules is Cyberpunk. One good shot from a
> .44 mag and most characters are down, probably dead. In CP2020, you
> can't roll to reduce damage, like in SRII, you just have to trust to
> your armor to ameliorate it.

IMHO CP2020 suffers from the same damage problem as SR, but in a slightly
different way: SR's damages are wholly unrealistic (especially heavy
pistols, sniper rifles, and assault cannons) due to being arbitrarily set
for game balance reasons. CP2020's damage are also made up on a "that
looks good" basis, if you ask me. You're right, a shot from most weapons
(9 mm pistols included) has the capacity to kill most characters in that
game, though I think the damages aren't all that consistent with RL ones.
Also, though you don't get to reduce damage in CP2020, you do get the BTM
(which does more or less the same as the Body roll in SR), and the damage
itself is a die roll, meaning it can basically go all ways.

T2K's damages are based on the energy of the round, which means they at
least have some link to the real-world power of a firearm.

> Or shoot the other guy first... :)

That's the best solution to not getting shot, apart from not being there
in the first place :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"You can ground supercalifragilistic ammo through elven illuminati!"
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 43
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:39:28 +0100
Asher Rosenberg said on 10:52/ 3 Oct 96...

> Which is something I would have to agree with him about. However, IMHO,
> the world of Shadowrun is more violent and deadly than most other RPG's.
> Of course, the GM's attitude will affect the deadliness as well, but of
> all the games I've played, only Cthulu was inherently more difficult to
> survive.

CoC, as I understand it (never having played the game), is meant as
certain death for the PCs. SR, if you ask me, is a deadly world, but one
where the players are meant to survive if they have their act together. If
they don't, too bad, but if they know what they're doing they should go on
to become the good guys (that's the impression I get from FASA's
adventures, anyway).

One more thing is that although the SR *world* is deadly, the game system
isn't really -- most likely because it's meant to be a cinematic game, not
a realistic one.

> If P's really so unhappy, he should quit. After all, the idea behind any
> RPG, including Shadowrun, is to have fun. If I was as unhappy as P
> claims to be, I'd find another group to join, or something else to do on
> Saturday nights.

Although I don't know this P, I agree with Asher.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"You can ground supercalifragilistic ammo through elven illuminati!"
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 44
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:46:35 +0100 (BST)
|Loki-the-noticing-the-Monkees-have-reunitied-including-Mike-Nesmith-GM

Oh NO! Not them as well!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 45
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:56:57 -0600 (MDT)
Steven Ratkovich wrote:
|
|The third player is a younger kid, maybe about 13 or 14. He has a lot to
|learn about gaming, although he enjoys it immensly. unfortunately, he is a
|blatant and admitted munchkin. he's playing a somewhat low power rigger
|character, and since we made them work together to make their characters and
|make backgrounds and such, he actually has a personality. My goal is to
|teach him to role play better, and keep him from munchkinizing this time...:)

Keep a lid on what type of equipment you let him have (use
those target numbers for acquiring items, and make sure he
takes the time to modify anything, or have it modified).

And, have a lot of fun roleplaying when he goes shopping
for those wonderful toys for his vehicle/drones. Meetings
in dark alleys, thieves posing as sellers, Military Intel
setting him up, FBI tracing the stuff he just bought, not
getting what he ordered

"This isn't `the best'! This is Russian crap!"

"Yes, but it's `the best' Russian crap. Why do you think
you're getting such a good deal?"

etc :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 46
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:09:38 -0600 (MDT)
Loki wrote:
|
|-----Lengthy message to Munchkin/Whiner follows-----

Very good. You didn't attack him, had some positive
comments, and left him room to maneuver.

Just one thing, be Real careful about using company email
to settle personal differences with fellow employees. I'd
start talking to him in person outside the office.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 47
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:11:11 -0600 (MDT)
Loki wrote:
|
|Yup! Caric, Rookie and Seth (not on the list) have proven to be buds on
|more than one occasion. :o)

It's truely cool when the people you game with are good
friends. Especially when they not only back you up, but
tell you when you're fragged in the head.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 48
From: big_jake@****.com (big_jake)
Subject: RE: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:11:00 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thursday, 3 October 1996, at 21.00, Faux Pas wrote:
> Anyone remember the three manila-covered 5
> 1/2" by 4 1/4" rule books that came out before the blue box?

Remember them? I still have my copies! Oops, must dash, it's time for
my anagathic medication.

// - - - - - - - john jacobsma <big_jake@****.com> - - - - - - -
// for geek code & pgp public key, visit my web page:
// http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/flying_dutchman/
// - - - - - - - f - - - n - - - o - - - r - - - d - - - - - - -

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Message no. 49
From: "Rookie" <rookie@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:37:22 -0600
----------
> From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Subject: Re: new game
> Date: Thursday, October 03, 1996 11:56 PM

> Yup! Caric, Rookie and Seth (not on the list) have proven to be buds on
> more than one occasion. :o)
>
> @>-,--'--- Loki
Well Lokster we know you would do it for us.

-Rookie Waiting for Vacation time!

Waiting for only 2 more weeks before we have lots a fun!
Message no. 50
From: "Rookie" <rookie@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:35:30 -0600
----------
> From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Subject: Re: new game
> Date: Thursday, October 03, 1996 11:53 PM

> I've tagged on what I sent him below. **For those who don't care, skip on
> to the next message. ** Some of you (as Bull above) have shown interest,
> and possibly even sympathize from similar GM experience. Anyways if you
> want to look it over and comment, it's appreciated. I hate hurting
people's
> feelings, but sometimes you can just be too nice. He's affecting my
group,
> so I've tried to be diplomatic yet still make my point.
>
> Loki-the-having-to be-firm-GM
>

That was beautiful a piece of work. O god Couldn't of said it better myself
(Well Actually I coudn't) I don't think Caric could say it better.

*sniff*

:~)

-Rookie
And when it comes the living will envy the Dead!

Rookie@*******.com
55464@**.ev.maricopa.edu
http://www.netzone.com/~rookie
Message no. 51
From: "Rookie" <rookie@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:32:48 -0600
----------
> From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Subject: Re: new game
> Date: Friday, October 04, 1996 12:06 AM
>
> > > > > Loki-tired-of-coddling-whiners-GM
> >
> > Loki you didn't coddle me did you?
> >
> > -Rookie
>
> You were 100% Munchkin when you started, but not a whiner.

Loki I liked it when you slapped me around. Sortta reminds me of getting
hit by Ooks Flaming Axe

> A GM doesn't coddle a pure Munchkin, he slaps 'em around a bit and sees
if
> they'll shape up.
>
> @>-,--'--- Loki
>

Rookie the naked Wolf Shaman - After getting hit by a flaming Axe.
Message no. 52
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:42:24 -0700
> Well, that's the basic group right there. They are raw, but seem eager
> about the way I'm setting up the game, and I think have the potential to
> role play well. I'm hoping that these characters will develop well
beyond
> the normal scope of what happens during adventures, but venture into
their
> personal lives... What these characters do between runs... Girlfriends,
> Family, Etc... I want it to be more than just a couple notes on paper...
i
> want it to be real...

Well you definately have the right idea...the new players should be "virgin
telesma" mold them how you want them. It may be good that the vets are
softspoken as this should help get the new players involved. Sounds like
you've got a shot at a good group just be patient.

> Ah well,that's how it went... Comments or sugggestions?
>
> -Bull-The-Hopeful-Decker-Turned-GM
>
Caric-the-pissed-because-these-pills-were-supposed-to-be-non-drowsy-shaman
Message no. 53
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:17:43 -0600 (MDT)
Rookie wrote:
|
|> > > > > Loki-tired-of-coddling-whiners-GM
|> >
|> > Loki you didn't coddle me did you?
|> >
|> > -Rookie
|>
|> You were 100% Munchkin when you started, but not a whiner.
|
|Loki I liked it when you slapped me around. Sortta reminds me of getting
|hit by Ooks Flaming Axe
|
|> A GM doesn't coddle a pure Munchkin, he slaps 'em around a bit and sees
|if
|> they'll shape up.
|
|Rookie the naked Wolf Shaman - After getting hit by a flaming Axe.

Okay, I gotta say something... This is starting to get to me. You
probably don't know me well yet so please trust me when I say that this
is not meant as a flame. I'm a nice guy, really :)

This is pretty aimless chatter. It crops up on the list from time to
time between list members but usually doesn't go more than three
postings. You guys have been going pretty steady for about a week (and
I lost track of the number of postings. okay, so I wasn't even
counting, but you get the point). When Bull and Tinner where going
back and forth it didn't bother me because there was a lot of content,
some of it useful, most of it entertaining. But now there's a lot of
one-liners going back and forth and I feel like I'm being forced to
listen to an endless telephone conversation that doesn't concern me at
all.

As Granite said I could just delete it all and let it go, but this is
starting to reach the point where it's becoming inconsiderate of the
other members on this list (IMHO).

Please, minimize the inhouse chatter and try to keep it to the topic of
ShadowRun. Or, if you gotta come back with a one-liner, try to follow
it up with something that adds to the list.

-David trying-to-be-friendly-yet-serious-at-the-same-time

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 54
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:05:27 -0700
----------
> From: A Halliwell <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Subject: Re: new game
> Date: Friday, October 04, 1996 3:17 AM
>
> |Also, the rod presents the GM with a nice advantage in that the group
knows
> |anyone appearing in a puff of pink astral energy is friend and not foe.
So
> |should a new player join the group at a time when logically they
shouldn't
> |be trusting anyone they've never met before (i.e. - having a 2.5 millon
%
> |bounty on their heads) they can still work in the newbie without an
entire
> |gaming session dedicated to that particular encounter.
>
> Ahhhh, but what's to stop the BigBadGuy (tm) from teleporting in with a
> programed illusion of pink puffy smoke?
> It presents an advantage to any evil-doer who has observed the
> phenominon....

I bend the game reality a bit and make it a phenomenon that can't be
duplicated. Still if someone rather powerful were to observe it and spent
some time and resources...hmmmm I picture suddenly Perianwyr popping in and
saying "Suprise!" <grin>

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 55
From: "Sedah Drol" <sedahdro@****.holli.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:43:59 +500
> (**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime to
> explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
> Security."

Rod of security? Please tell us more.

---Sedah Drol


---------
ATTN: Due to lack of Interest, tommorow has been cancelled.
---------
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 c++++>$ u+ P L+ E? W+>W+++ N o? k?
w+>w++++ O--- M-- V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ x++ R++>+++$
b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 56
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:30:23 +0100 (BST)
|
|> (**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime to
|> explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
|> Security."
|
|Rod of security? Please tell us more.

He already did...
(You must have missed it...)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 57
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:11:35 +0100
In article <199610040545.WAA17566@***.netzone.com>, Loki
<loki@*******.com> writes
>> <snip comments on whiner>
>>
[humoungous snip on Loki having to be firm]
>
>Loki-the-having-to be-firm-GM

I didn't catch the beginning of this thread,, but the letter you wrote
pretty much explained what was going on here.

You have my deepest sympathy old chap, I went through a very similar
experience last year, though this was with a chap I've known for many
years. He just got totally beyond control, and was plotting against the
characters, feeding the players different lines, and causing
considerable dissent amongst the group. After the players approached
me following one of his more "vicious" sessions, I had a long talk with
him, and we agreed that it would be a good idea if he didn't play any
more, it meant that for six months he wouldn't even nod in the street,
but hell if he wants to be that funny about a game, he can deal with it.
He has since voiced an interest in re-joining the group, with the old "i
want to come in from the cold, I'm much better now, and I won't hurt
anybody" line, but the others don't believe him.

It makes for a really unpleasant situation, there's nothing worse than
having to play "father" to a man nearly your own age. It was necessary,
and like you I did it, but I hated every second. It was kind of a
learning experience for me, because this was a situation I hadn't met in
*many* years of gaming, and I would advise anyone to deal with it as
soon as possible, there *really* isn't anything worse than an unhappy
group of players. It destroys the atmosphere, it destroys the game and
eventually can lead to a total break down of the game and group. This
is *bad* thing :(

I hope it all works out for you, and he comes around, it's never
pleasant to have to ask a person to leave.

Good luck
Pete
--
Pete Sims
Message no. 58
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:15:43 +0100
In article <9610041409.AA24194@******>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@****.org> writes
>Loki wrote:
>|
>|-----Lengthy message to Munchkin/Whiner follows-----
>
>Very good. You didn't attack him, had some positive
>comments, and left him room to maneuver.
>
>Just one thing, be Real careful about using company email
>to settle personal differences with fellow employees. I'd
>start talking to him in person outside the office.
>
I watched some program this afternoon that dealt with this situation
(company e-mail) and I was surprised at the success of a Californian
company that read employees E-Mail as a matter of course and when
prosecuted, *won* the case, leaving a nasty precedent for other
companies to do the same thing and effectively invade employees privacy.
Can we all say "Big Brother *is* watching/reading/listening", I thought
so. However, sometimes it just isn;t possible to get people outside of
office hours. i regularly communicate with people, who only log on and
download mail while at the office, though they read and answer out of
office hours.

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 59
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:40:08 +0100
In article <199610040929.EAA19936@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
[huge snip of game notes]
What's going on Steve, got a new keyboard or something, this is the
second massive post I've read from you tonight. :)
>
>Well, that's the basic group right there. They are raw, but seem eager
>about the way I'm setting up the game, and I think have the potential to
>role play well. I'm hoping that these characters will develop well beyond
>the normal scope of what happens during adventures, but venture into their
>personal lives... What these characters do between runs... Girlfriends,
>Family, Etc... I want it to be more than just a couple notes on paper... i
>want it to be real...

It looks like it might be fun. I had a great time converting several
AD&D fanatics over to Shadowrun, "but I don't like Scifi games" - Yeah
but this one's got dragons, and elves and orks and stuff... :)

It shocked all of them how much they enjoyed the game, and are now
complete converts (one of them a prior AD&D DM - has given up AD&D and
refuses to go near it again - I'm trying to convince him to GM SR, so I
can have a go :) )

The only comments I can make are - Don't concentrate too much on player
backgrounds. I use them in my game, and insist that a player designs a
background for his character, it gives them depth and personality,
rather than being an inert piece of paper, but between run activities
should really be left to the players, obviously a little gentle prodding
like - what are your characters going to do before the next run starts
up - I give a karma point for anything decent, or if the player really
thinks about it and does something that is likely to further his
characters aims - though they didn't know about the karma until it
happened. :) This didn't so much encourage between run activities as
make them think a bit more about their characters and what they *would*
do during down time. This has made for more developed background and a
real thought into the *character* of the character. (?? did that make
sense??).

The development of PC backgrounds as an added bonus, gives the GM
something to get to grips with, although it is easy to abuse the
knowledge and make the player suffer. I personally let them screw it up
themselves, they're real good at it. :). The only down side, is that
after some time playing a character, when you've got him/her relly
worked out, and know where he/she is coming from, where they've been and
have a *real* feel for the personality - and then it dies. Either
through a bad dice roll, or just bad luck, the player suddenly comes
down with a hard thump. All of that emotion and interest, all of the
hard work is *gone*, utterly lost, never to be used again. And the most
logical thought after this is "was it worth it, is it really worth doing
another one?" A player never forgets his/her first character, I can
still remember mine, and that was 20 years ago, he died through a "bendy
spear" cock up by the then GM. Over the years I've been playing, I've
come across many players who will reminice about old characters, but
have little feeling for their current one.

Maybe this is just fatalism, but a certain affection can be built up
between player and character, and in the wrong circumstances (after this
has gone on for a while and the character finally croaks) this can lead
to a player not bothering with the second character and a hard battle is
fought to prevent a two dimensional stereotyped paper character.

Background and down time actions of player characters is a good thing
for players to use work out, but be careful, it can also cause problems.

I'm a great fan of detailed backgrounds and character histories, but I
don't kill very often, I don't usually have the opportunity - the
characters are too busy running away. :) But it has been noted in other
games that I've sat on as second GM or observed that players can become
disgruntled that their character is now no more than trash can filler.

>
>Ah well,that's how it went... Comments or sugggestions?

Don't know if my waffle comes as comment or suggestion or both, but
whatever it is, its all my babble. Hope at least some of it made sense.
:)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 60
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:40:08 +0100
In article <199610040929.EAA19936@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
[huge snip of game notes]
What's going on Steve, got a new keyboard or something, this is the
second massive post I've read from you tonight. :)
>
>Well, that's the basic group right there. They are raw, but seem eager
>about the way I'm setting up the game, and I think have the potential to
>role play well. I'm hoping that these characters will develop well beyond
>the normal scope of what happens during adventures, but venture into their
>personal lives... What these characters do between runs... Girlfriends,
>Family, Etc... I want it to be more than just a couple notes on paper... i
>want it to be real...

It looks like it might be fun. I had a great time converting several
AD&D fanatics over to Shadowrun, "but I don't like Scifi games" - Yeah
but this one's got dragons, and elves and orks and stuff... :)

It shocked all of them how much they enjoyed the game, and are now
complete converts (one of them a prior AD&D DM - has given up AD&D and
refuses to go near it again - I'm trying to convince him to GM SR, so I
can have a go :) )

The only comments I can make are - Don't concentrate too much on player
backgrounds. I use them in my game, and insist that a player designs a
background for his character, it gives them depth and personality,
rather than being an inert piece of paper, but between run activities
should really be left to the players, obviously a little gentle prodding
like - what are your characters going to do before the next run starts
up - I give a karma point for anything decent, or if the player really
thinks about it and does something that is likely to further his
characters aims - though they didn't know about the karma until it
happened. :) This didn't so much encourage between run activities as
make them think a bit more about their characters and what they *would*
do during down time. This has made for more developed background and a
real thought into the *character* of the character. (?? did that make
sense??).

The development of PC backgrounds as an added bonus, gives the GM
something to get to grips with, although it is easy to abuse the
knowledge and make the player suffer. I personally let them screw it up
themselves, they're real good at it. :). The only down side, is that
after some time playing a character, when you've got him/her relly
worked out, and know where he/she is coming from, where they've been and
have a *real* feel for the personality - and then it dies. Either
through a bad dice roll, or just bad luck, the player suddenly comes
down with a hard thump. All of that emotion and interest, all of the
hard work is *gone*, utterly lost, never to be used again. And the most
logical thought after this is "was it worth it, is it really worth doing
another one?" A player never forgets his/her first character, I can
still remember mine, and that was 20 years ago, he died through a "bendy
spear" cock up by the then GM. Over the years I've been playing, I've
come across many players who will reminice about old characters, but
have little feeling for their current one.

Maybe this is just fatalism, but a certain affection can be built up
between player and character, and in the wrong circumstances (after this
has gone on for a while and the character finally croaks) this can lead
to a player not bothering with the second character and a hard battle is
fought to prevent a two dimensional stereotyped paper character.

Background and down time actions of player characters is a good thing
for players to use work out, but be careful, it can also cause problems.

I'm a great fan of detailed backgrounds and character histories, but I
don't kill very often, I don't usually have the opportunity - the
characters are too busy running away. :) But it has been noted in other
games that I've sat on as second GM or observed that players can become
disgruntled that their character is now no more than trash can filler.

>
>Ah well,that's how it went... Comments or sugggestions?

Don't know if my waffle comes as comment or suggestion or both, but
whatever it is, its all my babble. Hope at least some of it made sense.
:)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 61
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:40:08 +0100
In article <199610040929.EAA19936@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
[huge snip of game notes]
What's going on Steve, got a new keyboard or something, this is the
second massive post I've read from you tonight. :)
>
>Well, that's the basic group right there. They are raw, but seem eager
>about the way I'm setting up the game, and I think have the potential to
>role play well. I'm hoping that these characters will develop well beyond
>the normal scope of what happens during adventures, but venture into their
>personal lives... What these characters do between runs... Girlfriends,
>Family, Etc... I want it to be more than just a couple notes on paper... i
>want it to be real...

It looks like it might be fun. I had a great time converting several
AD&D fanatics over to Shadowrun, "but I don't like Scifi games" - Yeah
but this one's got dragons, and elves and orks and stuff... :)

It shocked all of them how much they enjoyed the game, and are now
complete converts (one of them a prior AD&D DM - has given up AD&D and
refuses to go near it again - I'm trying to convince him to GM SR, so I
can have a go :) )

The only comments I can make are - Don't concentrate too much on player
backgrounds. I use them in my game, and insist that a player designs a
background for his character, it gives them depth and personality,
rather than being an inert piece of paper, but between run activities
should really be left to the players, obviously a little gentle prodding
like - what are your characters going to do before the next run starts
up - I give a karma point for anything decent, or if the player really
thinks about it and does something that is likely to further his
characters aims - though they didn't know about the karma until it
happened. :) This didn't so much encourage between run activities as
make them think a bit more about their characters and what they *would*
do during down time. This has made for more developed background and a
real thought into the *character* of the character. (?? did that make
sense??).

The development of PC backgrounds as an added bonus, gives the GM
something to get to grips with, although it is easy to abuse the
knowledge and make the player suffer. I personally let them screw it up
themselves, they're real good at it. :). The only down side, is that
after some time playing a character, when you've got him/her relly
worked out, and know where he/she is coming from, where they've been and
have a *real* feel for the personality - and then it dies. Either
through a bad dice roll, or just bad luck, the player suddenly comes
down with a hard thump. All of that emotion and interest, all of the
hard work is *gone*, utterly lost, never to be used again. And the most
logical thought after this is "was it worth it, is it really worth doing
another one?" A player never forgets his/her first character, I can
still remember mine, and that was 20 years ago, he died through a "bendy
spear" cock up by the then GM. Over the years I've been playing, I've
come across many players who will reminice about old characters, but
have little feeling for their current one.

Maybe this is just fatalism, but a certain affection can be built up
between player and character, and in the wrong circumstances (after this
has gone on for a while and the character finally croaks) this can lead
to a player not bothering with the second character and a hard battle is
fought to prevent a two dimensional stereotyped paper character.

Background and down time actions of player characters is a good thing
for players to use work out, but be careful, it can also cause problems.

I'm a great fan of detailed backgrounds and character histories, but I
don't kill very often, I don't usually have the opportunity - the
characters are too busy running away. :) But it has been noted in other
games that I've sat on as second GM or observed that players can become
disgruntled that their character is now no more than trash can filler.

>
>Ah well,that's how it went... Comments or sugggestions?

Don't know if my waffle comes as comment or suggestion or both, but
whatever it is, its all my babble. Hope at least some of it made sense.
:)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 62
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:11:33 -0500 (EST)
>>Ah well,that's how it went... Comments or sugggestions?
>
>Don't know if my waffle comes as comment or suggestion or both, but
>whatever it is, its all my babble. Hope at least some of it made sense.
>:)
>
A bit of both, I believe, Pete, and much appreciated... Thanks...:)



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******
"Listen... You smell that?"
-Dr. Peter Venkman, "Ghostbusters"
Message no. 63
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:21:32 +0100
In article <199610061611.LAA21798@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
>>>Ah well,that's how it went... Comments or sugggestions?
>>
>>Don't know if my waffle comes as comment or suggestion or both, but
>>whatever it is, its all my babble. Hope at least some of it made sense.
>>:)
>>
>A bit of both, I believe, Pete, and much appreciated... Thanks...:)
>
That's OK, anytime.

I have a habit, that if i see something that interests me, I will reply
at great length, and this is not necessarily a god thing. But, hellee
that soap box, and the chance to see my thoughts in print (if only
virtually) I can't resist.

Being a mouthy vociferous sort, I can't help going on at length about
all sorts of things, but I don't like getting involved in "rules"
debates. I've "damaged" the game system so much, it is often difficult
to remember the core rules from stuff that has either been changed or
rewritten or comes from a different system. :)

Apologies in advance if sometimes my comments are contrary to Core
rules, but I'm not a rules lawyer, and tend to ignore them if they don't
suit me.

Nice talking to you. :)
Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 64
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:01:07 -0700
> <Snipped letter to whiner from Loki>
>
> Good job, Loki. Firm, but letting him know that you're concerned about
> keeping the game fun for all, including him if he wants to stay. I
always
> have trouble there because I hate to sound like an ass, and will
sometimes
> put up with stuff that I shouldn't.
>
> The problem with this is that after a while, It gets to be too much and I
> get really upset, sometimes blowing up at a player or the group, which
> reflects badly on me.
>
> Well handled.

Thanx for the support. To keep you posted, Paul got the mail and he's
talked things over between me, Caric and Rookie (we went out for coffee
that nite). He understands how he has been taking things, and has said
he'll try and take the game in a better light. He even admitted he'd played
too many superhero games and needs to recognize now one can make a truly
invincible starting character in S/R. There may be hope, we'll see.

Loki-the-working-with-the-munchkin-GM


CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 65
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:23:22 -0700
> > Which is something I would have to agree with him about. However, IMHO,
> > the world of Shadowrun is more violent and deadly than most other
RPG's.
> > Of course, the GM's attitude will affect the deadliness as well, but of
> > all the games I've played, only Cthulu was inherently more difficult to
> > survive.
>
> CoC, as I understand it (never having played the game), is meant as
> certain death for the PCs. SR, if you ask me, is a deadly world, but one
> where the players are meant to survive if they have their act together.
If
> they don't, too bad, but if they know what they're doing they should go
on
> to become the good guys (that's the impression I get from FASA's
> adventures, anyway).
>
> One more thing is that although the SR *world* is deadly, the game system

> isn't really -- most likely because it's meant to be a cinematic game,
not
> a realistic one.

I agree with Gurth on this, the S/R world is a violent and hostile place
but not one designed outright to kill the PC's. I try to portray the
paranoia and strongest-shall-survive type of feelings in it. But characters
with some smarts and instincts that are played well should be able to
survive at some lengths. I never throw completely overwhelming odds of
opposition at you (unless you bring it on yourselves). :o)

> > If P's really so unhappy, he should quit. After all, the idea behind
any
> > RPG, including Shadowrun, is to have fun. If I was as unhappy as P
> > claims to be, I'd find another group to join, or something else to do
on
> > Saturday nights.
>
> Although I don't know this P, I agree with Asher.

I've posted earlier what Paul's response was. But I think we've reached a
workable relationship and understanding over the game. He wants to try to
keep playing with us. We'll see what comes of it.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 66
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:42:30 -0700
----------
> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.org>
> It's truely cool when the people you game with are good
> friends. Especially when they not only back you up, but
> tell you when you're fragged in the head.
>
> -David

I agree. It also helps to have a couple of players in your group that realy
know the game and that you can trust. With now eight people playing in our
group, and all of us sitting at a fairly large and long table I can't take
the time out of my hectic GM pace to monitor all die rolls or coach someone
on how best to play things on a PC standpoint; so I can trust Caric or
Rookie to over-see the rolls or coach newer players on the rules or how to
use their karma, etc. (I'd almost had to go to a dice-box rolling system
once, cuz a munchkin in our group would roll the dice, then pick them up
and say how many successes he'd had.) It's also nice cuz they help the
newer players out alot in character creation (and I don't have to worry so
much about munchkinism), we also use a background generator if a Player
wants to gamble on it's outcome and I allow either of these guys to do
witness it, so it doesn't always have to be in my presence.

They're also good sounding board for some of my GM ideas or house-rules.
Plus, they won't hesitate to tell me if the idea is crocked. :o)

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 67
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:35:37 -0700
<snip>
> > (**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime
to
> > explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
> > Security."
>
> Rod of security? Please tell us more.
>
> ---Sedah Drol

I did earlier, but if any missed it I can probably find the post in my
"sent" items and put it up again.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 68
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 00:40:35 -0500 (EST)
>I have a habit, that if i see something that interests me, I will reply
>at great length, and this is not necessarily a god thing. But, hellee
>that soap box, and the chance to see my thoughts in print (if only
>virtually) I can't resist.
>
That's ok, Pete... I enjoy your lengthy comments, as they usually have some
good points, new ideas, or are at least interesting... AT least most of the
time...:)

>Being a mouthy vociferous sort, I can't help going on at length about
>all sorts of things, but I don't like getting involved in "rules"
>debates. I've "damaged" the game system so much, it is often difficult
>to remember the core rules from stuff that has either been changed or
>rewritten or comes from a different system. :)
>
You don't want to even know how much we've bent, changed, and broken the
poor rules... They barely resemble the original product some nights, cause
I get very bored rolling all the dice I should. Half the time, i make up
some numbers, roll some dice behind my trusty GM screen for the sound
effect, usually many more than necessary, and tell the players to roll. Or
we role play it. Or, if we're feeling really silly and bored, we play
paper/rock/scissors...:)

>Apologies in advance if sometimes my comments are contrary to Core
>rules, but I'm not a rules lawyer, and tend to ignore them if they don't
>suit me.
>
Heh, see above...:)

-Bull-the-decker-turned-GM-who-ignores-the-rules



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******
"Listen... You smell that?"
-Dr. Peter Venkman, "Ghostbusters"
Message no. 69
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:59:39 -0700
<snip>
> |> (**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime
to
> |> explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
> |> Security."
> |
> |Rod of security? Please tell us more.
>
> He already did...
> (You must have missed it...)
True, I did. I can dig it out and repost it if you missed it. Let me know.
:o)

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 70
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:31:57 -0700
<snip part about Pete having a similar situation>
> I hope it all works out for you, and he comes around, it's never
> pleasant to have to ask a person to leave.
>
> Good luck
> Pete

Thanx for the concern/support. He's talked things over with me and a couple
of my players, he recognizes how he's been acting and says he'll try to do
better. We'll see how it goes. ;o)

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 71
From: NightLife <habenir@******.san.uc.edu>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 03:01:54 -0700
At 09:59 PM 10/6/96 -0700, Loki wrote:
><snip>
>> |> (**In reference to the above mentioned late-comer, remind me sometime
>to
>> |> explain how I handle late-comers and early-leavers via the "Rod of
>> |> Security."
>> |
>> |Rod of security? Please tell us more.
>>
>> He already did...
>> (You must have missed it...)
>True, I did. I can dig it out and repost it if you missed it. Let me know.
>:o)
>
> @>-,--'--- Loki
>
>CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
>Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
>
> *********************************************
> Poisoned Elves
> http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
> *********************************************
>
>

Yes please repost it. I'd like to see it.


>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you have to ask then it's probably classified.
Which means that I have to follow protocol.
But if you ask nicley I might forget that you asked.
Then again maybe not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 72
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:09:52 +1000 (EST)
> rather than being an inert piece of paper, but between run activities
> should really be left to the players, obviously a little gentle prodding
> like - what are your characters going to do before the next run starts
> up - I give a karma point for anything decent,

Yeah! Yeah! You listening, Joker? Good idea! :) :)


*sigh* Our between-run activities just get us into more runs...

Me: "I'll call Full Throttle [NPC] & see if he wants to go out tonight"
GM: "His face appears on the vidphone, he looks very scared, and there's
a gun being cocked in the background."
Me: "Oh bugger."

Decker: "I'll go over to Minx's [my character] place and reprogram her
computer."
GM: "Python [NPC] arrives and passes out on the floor. He looks really
ill. Maybe he's got some sorta virus."
Decker: "Oh damn."

*sigh*

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 73
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 00:43:38 +0100
In article <199610070540.AAA29517@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
>>I have a habit, that if i see something that interests me, I will reply
>>at great length, and this is not necessarily a god thing. But, hellee
>>that soap box, and the chance to see my thoughts in print (if only
>>virtually) I can't resist.
>>
>That's ok, Pete... I enjoy your lengthy comments, as they usually have some
>good points, new ideas, or are at least interesting... AT least most of the
>time...:)
>
Most of the time - I feel complimented :). That's a very convincing
exageration on your part Steve, Ta. :)

[snip]
>You don't want to even know how much we've bent, changed, and broken the
>poor rules... They barely resemble the original product some nights, cause
>I get very bored rolling all the dice I should. Half the time, i make up
>some numbers, roll some dice behind my trusty GM screen for the sound
>effect, usually many more than necessary, and tell the players to roll. Or
>we role play it. Or, if we're feeling really silly and bored, we play
>paper/rock/scissors...:)

That's not what I said, now stop putting words in my mouth :) or I'll
have to thwap you. :) What I said, was that I don't like to get
involved in rules debates because I've almost destroyed the game as it
stands by adding so much in form other systems, I can't tell the Core
rules from the home brew. I feel that if I join in in a rules debate,
I'm likely to receive some very deserved flaming by quoting something
that is *not* canon. :)
>
>>Apologies in advance if sometimes my comments are contrary to Core
>>rules, but I'm not a rules lawyer, and tend to ignore them if they don't
>>suit me.
>>
>Heh, see above...:)
I did :)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 74
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 05:30:03 +0100
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961008100647.25336D@*****.student.gu.edu.au>,
The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au> writes

[snip downtime activity]
>*sigh*

My players tend to go a little nuts. One has involved himself in a boat
racing company that races powerboats on Lake Washington, and is carrying
on a relationship with a front line reporter.

Another invovles himself as a byline in other activities around Seattle
and chases Doc Wagon teams :-/

The female character (a bounty hunter) - well you can guess what she
does in between runs :)

The fourth, a Mage, has voiced a passion for antiques, and plays himself
somewhat as the "Gentleman" type, so he fruits around various places
doing various things. (Likes to think he's a future version of a mutant
Remington Steele) - He's having severe problems in New Orleans at the
moment.

The final character has a fascination for fishing, and regularly takes
his boat out on the sound, looking for new and interesting sea life :)

I get these hugely detailed accounts of downtime activities that are
almost as involved as the actual runs themselves, in fact a couple of
runs have actually developed from these activities, the most memorable
being the one that started with a player stuck in a cave up Mount
Cougar, near a Ski Lodge, in the middle of winter, in his underwear. I
won't go any further, but the players got really confused on that one,
and when they figured out what I'd done, they got even more paranoid
than they were before.

I wonder? Are the players really only there for us GMs to indulge are
warped and evil fantasies, and to have someone that we can legitemitely
(sp?) savage and chew up into little bits :-? :)


--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 75
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:18:16 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, The Jestyr wrote:

> Yeah! Yeah! You listening, Joker? Good idea! :) :)
>

Yep. Not a bad Idea.

>
> *sigh* Our between-run activities just get us into more runs...
>
> < Snip Two minor / Major runs Later >
>
> *sigh*
>
> Lady Jestyr

We do other stuff to, It's just that you guys tend to forget them. :)
Beside it made for good Roleplaying....

Joker-The-I-Want-a-good-sigh-off-too-GM.

===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 76
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 18:01:13 +1000
At 05:30 8/10/96 +0100, Pete Sims wrote:
>In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961008100647.25336D@*****.student.gu.edu.au>,
>The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au> writes
>
>[snip downtime activity]
>>*sigh*
>
<snip description of what characters do in downtime>

>I wonder? Are the players really only there for us GMs to indulge are
>warped and evil fantasies, and to have someone that we can legitemitely
>(sp?) savage and chew up into little bits :-? :)

No, I believe that any good group of Shadowrun role-players will eventually
make their characters' lives more interesting by adding bits and pieces to
them. For example, my longest running character now owns an office block, is
married to a doctor (she was a med. student when they met at the UW student
bar), is the Vice President (Corporate Affairs) for a small corp. he and
others set up and also works in a security firm as a technical consultant.
All of these so-called "side bars" have actually led to some exciting runs.
Like the time AZT rented space in the office block and began to investigate
blood magic (after we completed Harlequin's Back). I blew a fraggin' great
hole in my own office floor to get to the bad guys!! (That was an
in-character comment, by the way.) Hey, no sweat; he converted the hole
into a stair well and renovated the two affected floors to be his new
Seattle residence. Hell, I've got another character who has a high skill in
Fly Fishing, and another in Cooking (Honey Smoked Trout) and you can bet
he's seen some weird drek while standing in the middle of a trout stream!

These "side bars" can really add spice to your campaign. Shadowrun is very
episodic, which means that you talk to your fixer, get a job, meet the
Johnson, do the job, get paid, rest, talk to your fixer, get a job, meet the
Johnson...I'm sure you've got the idea. AD&D ('scuse me for mentioning it)
on the other hand, lends itself much more to an on-going campaign. Sure,
you could end up the same way (find a dungeon, go it, bash monster...etc).
But in Shadowrun, you have to actually work at making a campaign. I like
side-bars. The more you have, the more real your character feels and the
easier it is to suspend your disbelief when entering the game universe.
PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 77
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:19:53 +0100
The Jestyr said on 10:09/ 8 Oct 96...

> Decker: "I'll go over to Minx's [my character] place and reprogram her
> computer."
> GM: "Python [NPC] arrives and passes out on the floor. He looks really
> ill. Maybe he's got some sorta virus."
> Decker: "Oh damn."

Looks very much like one of the "encounters" in Sprawl Sites... Except
it's a bartender there, as far as I can remember.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Learn their rules, play their game, deceive yourself in haste.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 78
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:19:53 +0100
Pete Sims said on 5:30/ 8 Oct 96...

> The female character (a bounty hunter) - well you can guess what she
> does in between runs :)

Knitting? :)

*hides from thwaps of female listmembers*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Learn their rules, play their game, deceive yourself in haste.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 79
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 07:58:15 +1000 (EST)
> > Decker: "I'll go over to Minx's [my character] place and reprogram her
> > computer."
> > GM: "Python [NPC] arrives and passes out on the floor. He looks really
> > ill. Maybe he's got some sorta virus."
> > Decker: "Oh damn."
>
> Looks very much like one of the "encounters" in Sprawl Sites... Except
> it's a bartender there, as far as I can remember.

Sadly, I don't think it was. Python is an elf sammie, and leader of the
team of NPC runners that our team is friends with. We discovered they'd
done a run on Shiawase to steal some samples, and got ambushed. The sample
container (in Python's backpack) got broken in the gunplay, and despite
rapidly relieving himself of the backpack and one of the mages
Flamebombing it, he still got contaminated. Which led, three weeks game
time later, to a rather rapidly dying Python - so we had to break in
again to steal some more virus, so the doc could see what it was to cure him.

Note: THe virus was called "UB40". *grin* I had all these images of
Python growing dreadlocks and starting to do bad reggae ripoffs of
Concrete Dreams songs... :)

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 80
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 00:35:37 +0100
In article <2.2.32.19961008080113.0073cc38@*****>, Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au> writes
>At 05:30 8/10/96 +0100, Pete Sims wrote:
[snip]
>>I wonder? Are the players really only there for us GMs to indulge are
>>warped and evil fantasies, and to have someone that we can legitemitely
>>(sp?) savage and chew up into little bits :-? :)
>
>No, I believe that any good group of Shadowrun role-players will eventually
>make their characters' lives more interesting by adding bits and pieces to
>them. For example, my longest running character now owns an office block, is
>married to a doctor (she was a med. student when they met at the UW student
>bar), is the Vice President (Corporate Affairs) for a small corp. he and
>others set up and also works in a security firm as a technical consultant.
>All of these so-called "side bars" have actually led to some exciting runs.
>Like the time AZT rented space in the office block and began to investigate
>blood magic (after we completed Harlequin's Back). I blew a fraggin' great
>hole in my own office floor to get to the bad guys!! (That was an
>in-character comment, by the way.) Hey, no sweat; he converted the hole
>into a stair well and renovated the two affected floors to be his new
>Seattle residence. Hell, I've got another character who has a high skill in
>Fly Fishing, and another in Cooking (Honey Smoked Trout) and you can bet
>he's seen some weird drek while standing in the middle of a trout stream!

My players won't stand in streams, except one, who has a passion for
fishing, but only in Puget Sound, where the *larger interesting*
wildlife resides. :)

It's funny, my players have been tossing around a small idea amongst
themselves about starting a small business regarding security and
private investigation. I've been encouraging it (subtly) as it would
allow me a certain amount of freedom to expand on the game, rather than
using the standard "invade corp - get paydirt" type of run, having said
that, I don't think the players have ever *actually* had this kind of a
run, :) thay all seem to get a tad wierd. :)

>
>These "side bars" can really add spice to your campaign. Shadowrun is very
>episodic, which means that you talk to your fixer, get a job, meet the
>Johnson, do the job, get paid, rest, talk to your fixer, get a job, meet the
>Johnson...I'm sure you've got the idea. AD&D ('scuse me for mentioning it)
>on the other hand, lends itself much more to an on-going campaign. Sure,
>you could end up the same way (find a dungeon, go it, bash monster...etc).
>But in Shadowrun, you have to actually work at making a campaign. I like
>side-bars. The more you have, the more real your character feels and the
>easier it is to suspend your disbelief when entering the game universe.
>PML

That has been the view of the players in my game, they are much happier
when they can interact with the universe they exist in rather than just
react to it. Except, one, he dreads it when "mother" comes to visit. :)


Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 81
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 00:36:50 +0100
In article <199610081122.NAA03322@**********.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.nl> writes
>Pete Sims said on 5:30/ 8 Oct 96...
>
>> The female character (a bounty hunter) - well you can guess what she
>> does in between runs :)
>
>Knitting? :)
>
>*hides from thwaps of female listmembers*

ROTFLOL
<cough, choke, splutter> ... :)

Not quite :)

I could go on at length, because you are obviously curious.... but
maybe I won't :)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 82
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:23:24 +1000 (EST)
> It's funny, my players have been tossing around a small idea amongst
> themselves about starting a small business regarding security and
> private investigation.

What a brilliant Idea! I'd love to do that... we're playing a "thief"
campaign right now, focusing on stealing things from private collectors,
museums etc, not too many corp runs. What a great idea! Of course, we
also want to start a band, so I guess we'll have to pick one or the other.

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 83
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 01:41:08 -0700
The Jestyr wrote:
>
> > It's funny, my players have been tossing around a small idea amongst
> > themselves about starting a small business regarding security and
> > private investigation.
>

That is just how ArchAngel got started..First we bought 1 floor in a building
we wanted to own..Then we encouraged the rest of the folks who lived in the
building that they wanted to move..We paid them of course..

> .....What a great idea! Of course, we
> also want to start a band, so I guess we'll have to pick one or the other.
>

Unless you can run 2 campeigns at the same time..
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 84
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:24:36 +1000
At 00:35 9/10/96 +0100, Pete Sims wrote:
>In article <2.2.32.19961008080113.0073cc38@*****>, Peter Leitch
>That has been the view of the players in my game, they are much happier
>when they can interact with the universe they exist in rather than just
>react to it. Except, one, he dreads it when "mother" comes to visit. :)

ROTFL :-)

Several of our players have Native Americans. There is a
traditional ceremony called a Potlatch, celebrated at any time of the
year, at which everyone gives presents to everyone else. These
have been the scene of some intense runs. The setting is always
Port Angeles, a really small town on the Olympic Peninsula (it's
on the map; look it up in any atlas). Let's see, the first time was
when a bunch of Native American terrorists captured an old
US Navy boomer (nuclear-powered, nuclear missile submarine)
and my demolitions expert had to disarm a nuke (boy did I
sweat blood!). The second time was when one of the
really important NPCs of the game was kidnapped. This NPC
was the sister of one PC and had just become the lover of
another PC. I wonder what's going to happen this year?

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 85
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:24:38 +1000
At 14:23 9/10/96 +1000, The Jestyr wrote:
>
>> It's funny, my players have been tossing around a small idea amongst
>> themselves about starting a small business regarding security and
>> private investigation.
>
>What a brilliant Idea! I'd love to do that... we're playing a "thief"
>campaign right now, focusing on stealing things from private collectors,
>museums etc, not too many corp runs.

If you guys want some ideas, I could post some info on Sodan Security,
the security consultant firm in our game. I could do this either on this
list or privately, whatever people think. Just let me know...


PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 86
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:57:37 +0000
On 9 Oct 96 at 0:36, Pete Sims wrote:
[snip "knitting" female head-, er, bountyhunter]
> I could go on at length, because you are obviously curious.... but
> maybe I won't :)
>
Well, that _is_ something new! *gasp* :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| than things. Well known|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | fact. - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 87
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:02:57 -0700
> What a brilliant Idea! I'd love to do that... we're playing a "thief"
> campaign right now, focusing on stealing things from private collectors,
> museums etc, not too many corp runs. What a great idea! Of course, we
> also want to start a band, so I guess we'll have to pick one or the
other.
>
We are in the midst of putting together a band with our group right now.
We are all learning the skills and deciding who will play what, I think its
going to be pretty cool, maybe we'll see you at a festival or something :)
We also have a tendency to start and run restaurants, so if your ever in
Seattle hit the Blackened Pepper and visit Hawk and his brother Brujah the
Houngan he'd love to share a rum with you.
> Lady Jestyr
Message no. 88
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:47:36 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Peter Leitch wrote:
>
> These "side bars" can really add spice to your campaign. Shadowrun is very
> episodic, which means that you talk to your fixer, get a job, meet the
> Johnson, do the job, get paid, rest, talk to your fixer, get a job, meet the
> Johnson...I'm sure you've got the idea. AD&D ('scuse me for mentioning it)
> on the other hand, lends itself much more to an on-going campaign. Sure,
> you could end up the same way (find a dungeon, go it, bash monster...etc).
> But in Shadowrun, you have to actually work at making a campaign. I like
> side-bars. The more you have, the more real your character feels and the
> easier it is to suspend your disbelief when entering the game universe.

> Peter Leitch

Yes Atm our campain is slightly episodic, but it also has heigh levels of
character interaction running though, and there are usually other things
on thier minds than just the run at hand. Right Guys? Long running
campains are usually the best, while the truely great ones are those in
which the characters don't realise they are on a Campain. :) *Paranoid
yet guys?*


===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 89
From: Marty <s457033@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:19:45 +1000 (EST)
> Yes Atm our campain is slightly episodic, but it also has heigh levels of
> character interaction running though, and there are usually other things
> on thier minds than just the run at hand. Right Guys? Long running
> campains are usually the best, while the truely great ones are those in
> which the characters don't realise they are on a Campain. :) *Paranoid
> yet guys?*
>

You bastard.... In the nicest possible way, of course. *grin*

I've got enough to worry about WRT University without having another
interesting diversion to occupy my procrastination time.

It IS a good campaign right now, though.

Bleach
Message no. 90
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:24:36 +0100
In article <m0vB04b-0004wgC@*******.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>, Sascha
Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> writes
>On 9 Oct 96 at 0:36, Pete Sims wrote:
>[snip "knitting" female head-, er, bountyhunter]
>> I could go on at length, because you are obviously curious.... but
>> maybe I won't :)
>>
>Well, that _is_ something new! *gasp* :-)
>
Ooohhh! Cheek. I don't *always rant on for pages and hours and hours
and pages. Well, not nearly *always*. OK, maybe more often than not.
Oh, alright, stop twisting my arm, OK I admit it, I'm a gobby SOB. :(

I'll shut up now . :(

Bye. :)

Pete (the not as mouthy as usual GM turned soap box specialist). :)

--
Pete Sims
Message no. 91
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:19:11 +0100
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961009142215.9212C-100000@*****.student.gu.edu
.au>, The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au> writes
>
>> It's funny, my players have been tossing around a small idea amongst
>> themselves about starting a small business regarding security and
>> private investigation.
>
>What a brilliant Idea! I'd love to do that... we're playing a "thief"
>campaign right now, focusing on stealing things from private collectors,
>museums etc, not too many corp runs. What a great idea! Of course, we
>also want to start a band, so I guess we'll have to pick one or the other.
>
>Lady Jestyr

Obviously, and luckily for you, you don't get the same *very* sad
kiddies cartoons that we do here in England. Tell me Lady Jestyr, why
can't you have both??? Half the problem with being in a band is that
it's soooo boring, so why not liven it up with some of the typical PI
investigations that follow this sort of regalia. After all, with a
boring life, the band members are going to want to do *something* to
spice up their otherwise high earning, mundane lives. :)

I won't quote any of the cartoons and things I'm referencing, as I don't
want to confirm to people how sad I *really* am. :) :)

>>Try it, you might like it, and if you don't like it, put it down to a
learning experience.<< end quote :)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 92
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:21:56 +0100
In article <2.2.32.19961009092436.0075e71c@*****>, Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au> writes
>At 00:35 9/10/96 +0100, Pete Sims wrote:
>>In article <2.2.32.19961008080113.0073cc38@*****>, Peter Leitch
>>That has been the view of the players in my game, they are much happier
>>when they can interact with the universe they exist in rather than just
>>react to it. Except, one, he dreads it when "mother" comes to visit. :)
>
>ROTFL :-)
>
>Several of our players have Native Americans. There is a
>traditional ceremony called a Potlatch, celebrated at any time of the
>year, at which everyone gives presents to everyone else. These
>have been the scene of some intense runs. The setting is always
>Port Angeles, a really small town on the Olympic Peninsula (it's
>on the map; look it up in any atlas). Let's see, the first time was

I'm familiar with it (I have a detailed map of the area), my players
have run there as well, but I can't tell you what it was about, two of
them are lurking here, and they haven't finished yet) :)

>when a bunch of Native American terrorists captured an old
>US Navy boomer (nuclear-powered, nuclear missile submarine)
>and my demolitions expert had to disarm a nuke (boy did I
>sweat blood!). The second time was when one of the
>really important NPCs of the game was kidnapped. This NPC
>was the sister of one PC and had just become the lover of
>another PC. I wonder what's going to happen this year?

Ask Bull, and a couple of others. Usually Kids !!! Though why the
blazes any self respecting Shadowrunner would let the little monsters
invade his privacy is beyond my ken. :)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 93
From: "John F. Lee" <jfl666@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 09:50:18 -0700
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, The Jestyr wrote:

>
> > rather than being an inert piece of paper, but between run activities
> > should really be left to the players, obviously a little gentle prodding
> > like - what are your characters going to do before the next run starts
> > up - I give a karma point for anything decent,
>
> Yeah! Yeah! You listening, Joker? Good idea! :) :)
>

It doesn't necessarily have to be between runs; I once got a karma point
for suggesting that my character was going to eat up some time (while we
were spying on some guy) by playing Mortal Kombat 53 on his new Nintendo
1024.

A little creativitygoes a long way....

John F. Lee / jfl666@*.washington.edu
No herky-jerky starts or stops!
Message no. 94
From: Kurt Montgomery <gilean@****.MUSCANET.COM>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:00:38 -0600
At 09:50 AM 10/12/96 -0700, you wrote:

>It doesn't necessarily have to be between runs; I once got a karma point
>for suggesting that my character was going to eat up some time (while we
>were spying on some guy) by playing Mortal Kombat 53 on his new Nintendo
>1024.
Is that the new nintendo that takes 6 datajacks to use?
Message no. 95
From: John Pederson <Canthros@***.COM>
Subject: Re: new game
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:40:33 -0400
In a message dated 96-10-14 18:02:51 EDT, you write:

>>It doesn't necessarily have to be between runs; I once got a karma point
>>for suggesting that my character was going to eat up some time (while we
>>were spying on some guy) by playing Mortal Kombat 53 on his new Nintendo
>>1024.
>Is that the new nintendo that takes 6 datajacks to use?

COOL! Where's the info on that one? (or is this something somebody came up
with on the fly?)

John "I really don't know" Pederson
canthros@***.com
http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm
Message no. 96
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: New game
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 17:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Guys,

Doing a favour for a friend.

If this sounds interesting, give the good Mr. Pershing
(shadowbruin@*******.com) a buzz and let him know
you're interested. He's a good player and I think
he'll be a good GM.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Pershing
[mailto:shadowbruin@*******.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 6:39 AM
> To: RRatinac@*****.redcross.org.au
> Subject: new game
>
>
> Hello, Rand:
>
> I've finally gone and bit the bullet. I'm going to
try
> putting a game
> together. But I realize that I don't have the
player base
> that you do. So
> I was hoping I could take you up on your offer.
Would you
> mind circulating
> this message among your own players and lurkers to
see if
> there is any
> interest? I would really appreciate it.
>
> Here's the teaser:
>
>
> Waking to the smell of spent cigarettes, like
memories
> hanging suspended in
> the still air. The greasy feel of the bar's
hardwood surface
> under an
> equally greasy cheek. The clink of glasses as a
waitress
> buses tables in
> the back.
>
> The end of another night. The end of the
celebration.
>
> Tomorrow, the job. And with it, one last chance.
One last
> chance to make
> something out of this life. Fail that, and it will
be
> nothing but stale
> pretzels and watered-down booze for the next twenty
years.
>
> One last chance...
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
> Hello, I'm going to be GMing a new Shadowrun PBeM
game, and
> I'm putting out
> the call for players.
>
> I'm looking for characters who have been beaten down
by life
> nearly to the
> point of giving up. Essentially, I want losers.
But fate
> will offer these
> poor wretches one last chance to dust themselves off
and make
> something of
> themselves.
>
> Here's an example of the type I mean. A recovering
alcoholic
> long-haul
> rigger whose wife has left him, taking with her
their only
> daughter. His
> only hope of getting them back is to regain their
respect.
> And the only way
> to do that is to show he can do something right for
a change.
>
> Anyway, if you're interested in a character-driven
game,
> please reply with a
> short description of your proposed character (it
shouldn't be
> much longer
> than the above example). If I like the basic
concept, I'll
> send you the
> necessary follow-up information.
>
> Thanks...
>
> RIP, shadowbruin@*******.com

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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