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Message no. 1
From: d_hyde@***.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: New Grenade Idea
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:24:46 -0500
Ok, so maybe this has been discussed before, maybe not, but I got to
thinking about the possibility of a new variety of "minigrenade"
designed for use with grenade launchers. I'm thinking something that's
similar to a regular "launched grenade" but with more force when fired
off and a "penetrator" tip on it, something that's akin to a 4 bladed
broadhead for a bow & arrow. My idea goes on to have "fins" that pop
up somewhat like the fold out blades on a broadhead except that they're
spring loaded and actually have the "detonator" for the grenade so that
when the grenade hits something and the head buries to the "fins" it
causes it to detonate, with a shaped charge so that it blows the
payload of the grenade (whatever it may be) into what the head is stuck
in. this would be highly effective with a dual charge grenade with
DMSO and a knock out gas or something of the like when conducting urban
ops. Fire one into a wall that you know has a bunch of people in, and
you intend to knock everyone in the room out, and it'd deliver the
entire charge of knockout gas with the DMSO in it as well to the room
without your exposure. Or per chance you want to cook everyone in an
armored vehicle, make it a WP grenade, fire it into the side of the
vehicle and when it goes boom the inside of the vehicle is coated with
white phosphorus and starts burning. ;) the possibilities are
endless.....

just thought I'd throw it out here for discussion/review....let me know
what your thoughts are on this as far as feasibility and cost would ya?
Message no. 2
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: New Grenade Idea
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:11:00 +0200
According to Derek Hyde, on Sunday 25 April 2004 03:24 the word on the
street was...

> My idea goes on to have "fins" that pop
> up somewhat like the fold out blades on a broadhead except that they're
> spring loaded and actually have the "detonator" for the grenade so that
> when the grenade hits something and the head buries to the "fins" it
> causes it to detonate, with a shaped charge so that it blows the
> payload of the grenade (whatever it may be) into what the head is stuck
> in.

So you see the fins as hooks that prevent the rest of the grenade from
passing through the wall? Not sure if it'd work, as you could expect thin
but strong fins to get pushed some way into the wall themselves.

> this would be highly effective with a dual charge grenade with
> DMSO and a knock out gas or something of the like when conducting urban
> ops.

Another way to do this would be to simply have an armor-piercing gas
grenade with a (very short) delay fuse -- that is, use a grenade with a
very strong front side and a detonator that delays maybe 1/100 of a
second. If it hits the wall, the fuse is initiated, then its AP qualities
allow it to pass through the wall, and only then does the fuse detonate
the grenade (release the gas, or whatever). Alternatively, having the fuse
mounted in the base of the grenade would initiate it when most of the
grenade is already through the wall. These are basically the ways in which
APHE tank gun rounds work, though this type of grenade would suffer from
similar drawbacks: it'll penetrate less armor than a true AP grenade, and
also carries less explosive/gas/etc. than a true HE or gas grenade does.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Those who ignore history are doomed to keep liking crappy dance
covers of great songs.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: d_hyde@***.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: New Grenade Idea
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:41:40 -0500
On Apr 25, 2004, at 4:11 AM, Gurth wrote:

> According to Derek Hyde, on Sunday 25 April 2004 03:24 the word on the
> street was...
>
>> My idea goes on to have "fins" that pop
>> up somewhat like the fold out blades on a broadhead except that
>> they're
>> spring loaded and actually have the "detonator" for the grenade so
>> that
>> when the grenade hits something and the head buries to the "fins" it
>> causes it to detonate, with a shaped charge so that it blows the
>> payload of the grenade (whatever it may be) into what the head is
>> stuck
>> in.
>
> So you see the fins as hooks that prevent the rest of the grenade from
> passing through the wall? Not sure if it'd work, as you could expect
> thin
> but strong fins to get pushed some way into the wall themselves.
>
>> this would be highly effective with a dual charge grenade with
>> DMSO and a knock out gas or something of the like when conducting
>> urban
>> ops.
>
> Another way to do this would be to simply have an armor-piercing gas
> grenade with a (very short) delay fuse -- that is, use a grenade with a
> very strong front side and a detonator that delays maybe 1/100 of a
> second. If it hits the wall, the fuse is initiated, then its AP
> qualities
> allow it to pass through the wall, and only then does the fuse detonate
> the grenade (release the gas, or whatever). Alternatively, having the
> fuse
> mounted in the base of the grenade would initiate it when most of the
> grenade is already through the wall. These are basically the ways in
> which
> APHE tank gun rounds work, though this type of grenade would suffer
> from
> similar drawbacks: it'll penetrate less armor than a true AP grenade,
> and
> also carries less explosive/gas/etc. than a true HE or gas grenade
> does.
>
uhm, am I interpreting you right, you're referring to AP grenades as
Armor Piercing instead of Anti-Personnel? (which HE are not considered
by the army, just for clarification)
Message no. 4
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: New Grenade Idea
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:32:17 +0200
According to Derek Hyde, on Sunday 25 April 2004 20:41 the word on the
street was...

> uhm, am I interpreting you right, you're referring to AP grenades as
> Armor Piercing instead of Anti-Personnel? (which HE are not considered
> by the army, just for clarification)

APHE as in Armor-Piercing High Explosive, yes: a full-caliber
armor-piercing round with an explosive charge in the back. Not common on
modern tank guns, but a viable round at least into the 1960s/'70s or so.
That the M1A1/A2 doesn't have one available for it doesn't mean it can't
exist ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Those who ignore history are doomed to keep liking crappy dance
covers of great songs.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: d_hyde@***.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: New Grenade Idea
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:46:28 -0500
On Apr 26, 2004, at 3:32 AM, Gurth wrote:

> According to Derek Hyde, on Sunday 25 April 2004 20:41 the word on the
> street was...
>
>> uhm, am I interpreting you right, you're referring to AP grenades as
>> Armor Piercing instead of Anti-Personnel? (which HE are not considered
>> by the army, just for clarification)
>
> APHE as in Armor-Piercing High Explosive, yes: a full-caliber
> armor-piercing round with an explosive charge in the back. Not common
> on
> modern tank guns, but a viable round at least into the 1960s/'70s or
> so.
> That the M1A1/A2 doesn't have one available for it doesn't mean it
> can't
> exist ;)
>
no no, was just making sure that you weren't implying that the AP
grenades were Armor Piercing instead of Anti-Personnel ;)

but yes, for all intents and purposes that's my goal with the grenades,
something that'll penetrate heavy armor/walls/doors/whatever and
deliver it's charge to the inside of the object it lodged itself
into....

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