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Message no. 1
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: New military armor ?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:03:46 +0100
I thought about something this week end (yep. I do this from time to time :).
Aura extends to a certain distance of an individual. When someone is
wearing something like a military armor, I stated the aura is still visible
because there some kind of aura transfer from the individual to the armor.
So, the game was to find something that could prevent the aura of rising
outside the armor. And here is the result : Put some gas or liquid that has
a lot of living entites in it (something like fat bacteria). These living
entities will stop the aura (by considering that two aura cannot merge) or
will change the aura (if they can merge). In both cases, you succeeded to
render the soldier invulnerable to spells that require aura synchronisation
(so, manipulation spells still work fine).

Your opinion ?


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 2
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:56:32 PST
>I thought about something this week end (yep. I do this from time to
time :).
>Aura extends to a certain distance of an individual. When someone is
>wearing something like a military armor, I stated the aura is still
visible
>because there some kind of aura transfer from the individual to the
armor.
>So, the game was to find something that could prevent the aura of
rising
>outside the armor. And here is the result : Put some gas or liquid that
has
>a lot of living entites in it (something like fat bacteria). These
living
>entities will stop the aura (by considering that two aura cannot merge)
or
>will change the aura (if they can merge). In both cases, you succeeded
to
>render the soldier invulnerable to spells that require aura
synchronisation
>(so, manipulation spells still work fine).
>
>Your opinion ?

Not a bad idea. HOWEVER... it needs to be three things...
1. Bulky. Restricts movement by bunches and bunches.
2. Costly. I'm thinkin at *least* 6 figures...
3. Fraggin hard to find. 'nuff said.


-Vagabond (nomad74@*******.com)
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


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Message no. 3
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:24:08 EST
In a message dated 98-01-19 04:59:05 EST, wgallas@*****.FR writes:

> I thought about something this week end (yep. I do this from time to time
:).
> Aura extends to a certain distance of an individual. When someone is
> wearing something like a military armor, I stated the aura is still visible
> because there some kind of aura transfer from the individual to the armor.
> So, the game was to find something that could prevent the aura of rising
> outside the armor. And here is the result : Put some gas or liquid that has
> a lot of living entites in it (something like fat bacteria). These living
> entities will stop the aura (by considering that two aura cannot merge) or
> will change the aura (if they can merge). In both cases, you succeeded to
> render the soldier invulnerable to spells that require aura synchronisation
> (so, manipulation spells still work fine).
>
The theoretics are there, yes, your idea would work just fine. However, most
people would probably argue against it. And perhaps "invulnerable" isn't the
correct word, how about "invisible" to most standard, directed, magic.

-K
Message no. 4
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:16:08 EST
In a message dated 98-01-19 04:59:05 EST, you write:

> I thought about something this week end (yep. I do this from time to time
:).
> Aura extends to a certain distance of an individual. When someone is
> wearing something like a military armor, I stated the aura is still visible
> because there some kind of aura transfer from the individual to the armor.
> So, the game was to find something that could prevent the aura of rising
> outside the armor. And here is the result : Put some gas or liquid that has
> a lot of living entites in it (something like fat bacteria). These living
> entities will stop the aura (by considering that two aura cannot merge) or
> will change the aura (if they can merge). In both cases, you succeeded to
> render the soldier invulnerable to spells that require aura synchronisation
> (so, manipulation spells still work fine).
>
> Your opinion ?
>
Cobra, this would be kind of nice except for one thing (and I know people will
carp me or thwap me for saying this), it throws game balance out of the window
...

Mike
Message no. 5
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:06:15 -0500
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, AirWisp wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-19 04:59:05 EST, you write:
>
> > I thought about something this week end (yep. I do this from time to time
> :).
> > Aura extends to a certain distance of an individual. When someone is
> > wearing something like a military armor, I stated the aura is still visible
> > because there some kind of aura transfer from the individual to the armor.
> > So, the game was to find something that could prevent the aura of rising
> > outside the armor. And here is the result : Put some gas or liquid that has
> > a lot of living entites in it (something like fat bacteria). These living
> > entities will stop the aura (by considering that two aura cannot merge) or
> > will change the aura (if they can merge). In both cases, you succeeded to
> > render the soldier invulnerable to spells that require aura synchronisation
> > (so, manipulation spells still work fine).
> >
> > Your opinion ?
> >
> Cobra, this would be kind of nice except for one thing (and I know people will
> carp me or thwap me for saying this), it throws game balance out of the window
> ...

That depends on how the armor is used. You figure PCs will never get
ahold of the stuff, and only a few megacorps or governmnets will be able
to field a soldier equiped with this armor. First, unless the GM is
sadistic, the PCs will have to have pissed off someone important to
warrent this type of response, and represent enough of a threat for the
bad guys to send out their really heavy security. Thus, only relatively
experianced runners should end up facing a threat like this, and by that
time, they should be intelligent enough to realize that there are many
other ways to fight other than simply opening up with guns and magic.

Armor like this still has some weaknesses. First, even though bullets may
not hurt the person inside, the bullets still damage the armor, which
means the gas or liguid containing the bacteria may escape. Secondly, as
manipulation spells still work, a creative mage could easily wreak havoc
with a guy like this. Levitate as a combat spell is always a possibility,
and damaging manipulations could also be quite effective. A spell that
trips up the chracter and the restrains him in some way could be used to
neutralize him long enough for some of the other PCs to move in and kill
him, and I'm sure there are all sorts of siturational methods available.

Thus, one piece of equipent is not likely to imbalace the game if used in
a proper manner, and while a bad GM could easily imbalance the game by
overusing this armor or by allowing it to easily fall into the player's
hands, a good GM should be able to use it in a limited enopugh way to
provide an interesting threat.
Message no. 6
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:33:47 +0000
On 19 Jan 98 at 11:03, William Gallas wrote:
[snip]
> When someone is wearing something like a military armor, I stated the
> aura is still visible because there some kind of aura transfer from
> the individual to the armor.
[snip]
> And here is the result : Put some gas or liquid that has a lot of
> living entites in it (something like fat bacteria). These living
> entities will stop the aura (by considering that two aura cannot
> merge) or will change the aura (if they can merge). In both cases,
> you succeeded to render the soldier invulnerable to spells that
> require aura synchronisation (so, manipulation spells still work
> fine).
According to the last Grounding-through-Quickenings-debatte, auras
can't merge or overlap. Thus, your idea sounds good. But... hey, a
walking aquarium! You'l need to carry around all that fluid, which
makes the armor bulky at least. Plus, a "Sterilize" Spell (Combat
spell, Grimoire p. 127) would probably take care of your bacteria...

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The truth may be |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| out there, but |
| \___ __/ | | lies are inside |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | your head. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- T.Pratchett |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 7
From: Aaron Jones <aaronj@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:26:17 -0500
>On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, AirWisp wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 98-01-19 04:59:05 EST, you write:
>>
>> > I thought about something this week end (yep. I do this from time to time
>> :).
>> > Aura extends to a certain distance of an individual. When someone is
>> > wearing something like a military armor, I stated the aura is still
visible
>> > because there some kind of aura transfer from the individual to the armor.
>> > So, the game was to find something that could prevent the aura of rising
>> > outside the armor. And here is the result : Put some gas or liquid
that has
>> > a lot of living entites in it (something like fat bacteria). These living
>> > entities will stop the aura (by considering that two aura cannot merge) or
>> > will change the aura (if they can merge). In both cases, you succeeded to
>> > render the soldier invulnerable to spells that require aura
synchronisation
>> > (so, manipulation spells still work fine).
>> >
>> > Your opinion ?
>> >
>> Cobra, this would be kind of nice except for one thing (and I know people
will
>> carp me or thwap me for saying this), it throws game balance out of the
window
>> ...
>
>That depends on how the armor is used. You figure PCs will never get
>ahold of the stuff, and only a few megacorps or governmnets will be able
>to field a soldier equiped with this armor.

I always got the impression that FAT bacteria was usually airborne
and contained between walls and stuff. Assuming that I am correct in this,
armor like that shouldn't bee too awful tough to make. You take an
isolation suit (think of the movie Outbreak). You make it out of kevlar to
keep bullets from penetrating. It's going to have to be a little big, in
order to fit over the lighter mil-spec armor worn under the outer suit.
Equip the inner suit with breathing apparatus (small air supply for space
considerations, so it won't be used for extended operations). Fill the
isolation suit with air carryin FAT bacteria. Mil-spec armor, with aura
protection.
Even I see a couple possible problems with the above. It will take
a long time to get suited up. It will be hideously restictive for movement.
Offhand, I don't remember whether FAT is toxic or not. If it isn't, you
wouldn't need the breathing apparatus, freeing up more space and weight.
Some might argue that bullets could still punch through the outer
suit. APDS probably would, but (I'm thinking, but could easily be wrong)
the kevlar should bend when hit by other rounds, until it reaches the iiner
layer, at which point the hardened armor should stop the kevlar and bullet.
At this point, the APDS would pierce the kevlar, but normal rounds should
flatten.
With all of the restrictions, wouldn't this seem more suited to
special purpose raids, like SWAT teams attacking an evil initiatory group
which makes heavy use of sacrifice, where it is well-known that magic will
be a much bigger factor than bullets? <shrug> Sounds kind of
special-purpose to me...

Aaron (Still looking for a SIG) Jones
aaronj@******.com
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:22:38 +1000
William Gallas wrote:
>I thought about something this week end (yep. I do this from time to time
:).
>Aura extends to a certain distance of an individual. When someone is
>wearing something like a military armor, I stated the aura is still visible
>because there some kind of aura transfer from the individual to the armor.
>So, the game was to find something that could prevent the aura of rising
>outside the armor. And here is the result : Put some gas or liquid that has
>a lot of living entites in it (something like fat bacteria). These living
>entities will stop the aura (by considering that two aura cannot merge) or
>will change the aura (if they can merge). In both cases, you succeeded to
>render the soldier invulnerable to spells that require aura synchronisation
>(so, manipulation spells still work fine).
>Your opinion ?
In a word: no.

Two reasons:

1) (trivial, and not important) The armour will need some connections
between the two layers, and the wearer's aura will "leak" out through that.

2) Where on earth did you get the idea auras can't overlap? Try shaking
hands with someone. Auras can't be merged in the astral plane, but physical
forces overcome that. Thus the wearer's aura will still "shine through" the
armour.

.sig deleted to conserve electrons.
Message no. 9
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:48:11 +0100
>According to the last Grounding-through-Quickenings-debatte, auras
>can't merge or overlap. Thus, your idea sounds good. But... hey, a
>walking aquarium! You'l need to carry around all that fluid, which
>makes the armor bulky at least.

You don't need so much fluid. When you're wet, you don't have difficulty to
walk because of the weight of water... :)

> Plus, a "Sterilize" Spell (Combat
>spell, Grimoire p. 127) would probably take care of your bacteria...

You're never totally protected...
Do you many mages having learned this spell. Perhaps they will after having
encountered someone with such an armor (not very likely, it's a military
armor), if they think about such a spell. But anyway, there's some chance
that the first encounter could be the last...


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 10
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: New military armor
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:23:09 +0100
>1) (trivial, and not important) The armour will need some connections
>between the two layers, and the wearer's aura will "leak" out through that.

The connections need only to be made in soft materials. You can still fill
it with some fluid.

>2) Where on earth did you get the idea auras can't overlap? Try shaking
>hands with someone. Auras can't be merged in the astral plane, but physical
>forces overcome that. Thus the wearer's aura will still "shine through" the
>armour.

In Corp Security Handbook. If your aura could shine through, it would mean
you could pass through a FAB berrier... Perhaps it's your opinion but it's
not FASA's.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 11
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:25:15 +0000
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:48:11 +0100 William Gallas wrote

> > Plus, a "Sterilize" Spell (Combat
> >spell, Grimoire p. 127) would probably take care of your bacteria...
>
> You're never totally protected...
> Do you many mages having learned this spell. Perhaps they will after having
> encountered someone with such an armor (not very likely, it's a military
> armor), if they think about such a spell. But anyway, there's some chance
> that the first encounter could be the last...

In my opinion most Shadowrunning mgaes should have the sterilise
spell. When used it completely eliminates the problem of ritual
sorcery and DNA blueprinting to identify the culprits of a crime.
That's one hell of an important thing for many shadow teams.


Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
Message no. 12
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:25:15 +0000
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:23:09 +0100 William Gallas wrote

> >2) Where on earth did you get the idea auras can't overlap? Try shaking
> >hands with someone. Auras can't be merged in the astral plane, but physical
> >forces overcome that. Thus the wearer's aura will still "shine through"
the
> >armour.
>
> In Corp Security Handbook. If your aura could shine through, it would mean
> you could pass through a FAB berrier... Perhaps it's your opinion but it's
> not FASA's.

Um, the GM's rules section (P 103) FAB only restricts the mage to
slow astral movement despite what the fiction suggests. Therefore
you can pass through the FAB barrier, just slowly.

In my opinion the aura doesn't get extended to the armour but shines
a distance away from the body. This is why you can see the somebody
hiding just around a corner using astral perception. In the case of
the hiding person there just isn't enough of the aura available to
allow synchronisation.In the case of somebody in mil-spec the aura
shines out of the armour on all sides giving enough detail for the
spell-synchronisation.

Once you accept that the aura shines from the body it isn't that much
harder to accept that the aura can be compressed or displaced by
another aura, e.g. when shaking hands the aura's of both people
around the hand are compressed to nearly nothing. Therefore the FAB
would still be able to hide the armour-wearers aura since it would
inhibit the shining of the aura and could well contain it inside the
armour. This view also eliminates the problem of the connection
between the inner Biochem suit and the outer armour, or even allows
you to put a respirator and goggles on the wearer and just flood the
armour with a FAB atmosphere.

Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
Message no. 13
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:25:20 +1000
William Gallas writes:

>>1) (trivial, and not important) The armour will need some connections
>>between the two layers, and the wearer's aura will "leak" out through
that.
>
>The connections need only to be made in soft materials. You can still fill
>it with some fluid.


The connections have to be solid... soft materials will mean you'll bounce
in your armour.

>>2) Where on earth did you get the idea auras can't overlap? Try shaking
>>hands with someone. Auras can't be merged in the astral plane, but
physical
>>forces overcome that. Thus the wearer's aura will still "shine through"
the
>>armour.
>
>In Corp Security Handbook. If your aura could shine through, it would mean
>you could pass through a FAB berrier... Perhaps it's your opinion but it's
>not FASA's.

Umm... what part of "physical forces overcome that" don't you understand?
Are you saying a person can't walk through a FAB-filled room in the flesh?

To quote... "Perhaps it's your opinion but it's not FASA's".

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons.
Message no. 14
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:27:57 +1000
Andy writes:
>In my opinion most Shadowrunning mgaes should have the sterilise
>spell. When used it completely eliminates the problem of ritual
>sorcery and DNA blueprinting to identify the culprits of a crime.
>That's one hell of an important thing for many shadow teams.

Dead cells still have DNA... and can be used for ritual sorcery. As an
example: hair and fingernail clippings are already dead.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons.
Message no. 15
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:52:03 +0000
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:27:57 +1000 Robert Watkins wrote

> Andy writes:
> >In my opinion most Shadowrunning mgaes should have the sterilise
> >spell. When used it completely eliminates the problem of ritual
> >sorcery and DNA blueprinting to identify the culprits of a crime.
> >That's one hell of an important thing for many shadow teams.
>
> Dead cells still have DNA... and can be used for ritual sorcery. As an
> example: hair and fingernail clippings are already dead.

I agree that dead stuff still has DNA that can be used for forensics
or ritual sorcery, but read the description of sterilise (Grimoire,
P127)

".....In addition, it also destroys or renders unusable such
biomaterial as skin-flakes, stray hairs, spilled blood and so forth
that might be left behind at a crime scene. Organic material
affected by this spell cannot be used as a material link...."

That certainly rules out the ritual sorcery. How you read destroy
etc is up to you but personally I let it prevent the DNA analysis as
well. The description says that the spell is a physical spell that
does deadly damage to the samples and that is enough to start
breaking down the DNA in my opinion. GM call I suppose.


Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
Message no. 16
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:37:48 EST
>
> Dead cells still have DNA... and can be used for ritual sorcery. As
> an example: hair and fingernail clippings are already dead.

The Sterilize Spell description explicitly states that it destroys
all material in terms of use for ritual magic, IIRC.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 17
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:01:16 +0000
On 21 Jan 98, Robert Watkins disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

> Andy writes:
> >In my opinion most Shadowrunning mgaes should have the sterilise
> >spell. When used it completely eliminates the problem of ritual
> >sorcery and DNA blueprinting to identify the culprits of a crime.
> >That's one hell of an important thing for many shadow teams.
>
> Dead cells still have DNA... and can be used for ritual sorcery. As
> an example: hair and fingernail clippings are already dead.

Oh? So all that is needed for ritual sorcery is DNA, eh? Then I
suppose DNA in, for example, blood, decomposes after (Essence) hours?

After all, your blood can be only used as a ritual sample for
(Essence) hours.

See? Either DNA is not enough (that's what I'd say, after all it's
magic...), or DNA decomposes after a few hours - unless a forensic
magician performs a special ritual or the sample is given willingly.
Uh. I don't think so.

Ergo - DNA is not what makes the ritual sorcery tick... ;P
QED


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU
Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+
PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y()-*
Go ahead, steal my ideas...everyone else does...
Message no. 18
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: New military armor ?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:46:04 -0700
>......In both cases, you succeeded to
> render the soldier invulnerable to spells that require aura synchronisation
> (so, manipulation spells still work fine).

So the spell doesn't target the person on the first go..it targets
the living portion of the armour..and the person is real close for
effects overflow..and if it is the sort of thing that only affects a
single entity..the second spell takes on the person...Thus giving
only a limited protection and restoring balance to the universe...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
The truth is a three edged sword. - Kosh

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