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Message no. 1
From: Kim Christiansen <kimc@**********.COM>
Subject: new mongoose totem
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 09:10:02 +0100
Here goes, I want to include this totem in my games, but I would like some
third party input on it's balance.
One of my players complained about the balance of the totem, and I figured
he was whining like always.
Hope you all can add something to this. Feel free to use it if you like, mod
it whatever.

kim

MONGOOSE

Environment:

FOREST (JUNGLE)

Advantages:

* +2d FOREST sprirts
* +3d ILLUSION spells
* +1d COMBAT spells

Character:

Mongoose is a distant cousin of Weasel, however has a completly different
reputation. He is considered good luck, a trusted friend and ally. A
Mongoose Shaman will back you up in a fight every time, even against
terrible odds. Problem is, he also will try to get the upper hand in just
about everything else. He is not above cutting himself in for a little
extra, after all, he is the dependable ally! Like Weasel, Mongoose runs at
high energy levels, not able to sit around for long periods of time without
loosing his sanity. Mongoose loves a good fight, even if the odds seem not
in his favor. He likes to confuse his enemy and then strike with great speed
and ferrocity.

Disadvantages:

Mongoose gives of the appearance of the trusted ally, in fact he will seek
the advantage in just about every situation. He sees nothing wrong with
stealing something and not sharing with his friends. This can cause
problems, but Mongoose is persuasive and charming, and will share when
caught. "Oh, thaaaat ruby, well, we'll just have to transfer that new-yen
right now won't we! How forgetful of me!" Mongoose cannot turn down a direct
challange, Willpower(4) test for turning down a direct challenge. Also, if
Mongoose sees a Snake Shaman, watchout!, for Mongoose will strike at the
first opportunity. It is a Willpower(6) test to not immediatley attack. If
the Mongoose Shaman makes his resistance, he will still pursue and plot his
strike. He must kill the Snake Shaman, for it is in his very nature.
Mongoose is not a nurturer, -1 die to HEALTH spells.
Message no. 2
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: new mongoose totem
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:15:54 -0400
At 09:10 AM 5/25/97 +0100, Kim Christiansen wrote these timeless words:
>Here goes, I want to include this totem in my games, but I would like some
>third party input on it's balance.
>One of my players complained about the balance of the totem, and I figured
>he was whining like always.
>Hope you all can add something to this. Feel free to use it if you like, mod
>it whatever.
>
>kim
>
>MONGOOSE
>
>Advantages:
>
> * +2d FOREST sprirts
> * +3d ILLUSION spells
> * +1d COMBAT spells
>
This looks good, Kim. th only thing I'd alter is right here, at the
advantages. Thuis is mostly because of my personal preference for lower
power and better balance. +3D for a spell category is a lot. Maybe tone
that down to a +2D, or, since the shamans favored environment is Forest,
put a restriction on them while in the city, or a non forested area.

Otherwise, looks very interesting, and that's a minor quibble on my part.

Bull-who-still-wants-a-decent-Bull-Totem :]
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
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Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 3
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: new mongoose totem
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:19:12 -0700
Overall I kinda like his one...Although...

> * +3d ILLUSION spells

So why a plus anything to Illusion??? I do think this is a little
high..but it is well balanced for below...

> Mongoose cannot turn down a direct
> challange, Willpower(4) test for turning down a direct challenge. Also, if
> Mongoose sees a Snake Shaman, watchout!, for Mongoose will strike at the
> first opportunity. It is a Willpower(6) test to not immediatley attack.
> Mongoose is not a nurturer, -1 die to HEALTH spells.

Now those are some heavy duty penalties..Even Shark only gets a 4 WP
test when he draws blood...But it balances the Plusses fairly
well...Although I might tone both sides down a little...
--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 4
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: new mongoose totem
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 02:28:11 -0700
Kim Christiansen wrote:

> MONGOOSE

> Environment:

> FOREST (JUNGLE)

> Advantages:

> * +2d FOREST sprirts
> * +3d ILLUSION spells
> * +1d COMBAT spells

Pretty hefty. Most SR2 shamans weigh in with a total of +3 dice (most
often, +2 to two categories and -1 to a third, or, alternatively, some
drawback such as berserker or loyalty.). More importantly, with the
exception of one, no Totem has three bonus dice in a single category.
I'm not really sure why Mongoose is getting dice in the category,
anyway - maybe one die, to reflect a quick, darting figure, but not
more than that. I'd really like to see a Totem with just one or two
bonus
dice and no drawbacks, just because so many I've seen engage in
bonus-dice
one-upmanship. ("Well, following Chimera gives you +2 dice in all
categories!
Ha!")

> Character:

> Disadvantages:
>
> Mongoose cannot turn down a direct
> challange, Willpower(4) test for turning down a direct challenge.

Believe it or not, mongooses (Mongeese? Mongi?) do occasionally cut and
run from cobras. On an interesting parallel, at one point they were
imported (can't remember where) to help keep down the rat population.
Turns out Monplurals are diurnal, rats nocturnal, so no turf war - or
at least that's how the rumor I heard goes.

> Also, if
> Mongoose sees a Snake Shaman, watchout!, for Mongoose will strike at the
> first opportunity. It is a Willpower(6) test to not immediatley attack. If
> the Mongoose Shaman makes his resistance, he will still pursue and plot his
> strike. He must kill the Snake Shaman, for it is in his very nature.

<grump>

This is kinda cute, but *sigh* overdone. If you'll permit me
to overreact a little, it seems like a heavyhanded way to force a
_player_ into undesirable situations - whether by getting a criminal
record, turfing contacts out of hand (even Shark can choose not to
bite),
or by ensuring interplayer conflict. And I'm not gonna take "But this
is a cyberpunk game!" as an acceptable answer, either. Being
arch-enemies
or arch-rivals is one thing; saying that you _must_ kill someone else
is simply far too much. Especially combined with the previous weakness.

What happens, by the way, when Mongoose walks by a Snake shaman
who's masking her aura? What happens when Mongoose walks by a
Coyote shaman (say) who's masking... and gets told by Reliable Source
that Coyote's really a Snake?

</grump>

All that being said (or more properly, vented) I do kind of like the
idea;
it has a certain literary quality to it, and with the right touches, and
the right players, could work extremely well (you *know* you're going to
die at RikkiTikki's hands; It Has Been Foretold). I still wouldn't
want to play a Mongoose shaman, because that one weakness is simply too
great.

> Mongoose is not a nurturer, -1 die to HEALTH spells.
Message no. 5
From: Kim Christiansen <kimc@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: new mongoose totem
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:50:07 +0100
----------
> From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
re:
> >MONGOOSE
> >
> >Advantages:
> >
> > * +2d FOREST sprirts
> > * +3d ILLUSION spells
> > * +1d COMBAT spells
> >
> This looks good, Kim. th only thing I'd alter is right here, at the
> advantages. +3D for a spell category is a lot. Maybe tone
> that down to a +2D, or, since the shamans favored environment is Forest,
> put a restriction on them while in the city, or a non forested area.

... right, that makes sense to me too. I think that reducing the illusion
bonus to 2D would be appropo.
* +2d FOREST sprirts
* +2d ILLUSION spells
* +1d COMBAT spells

But, I think that Mongoose wopuld rather like nuting the URBAN sewers, neh?
That would be a GM's call wether to allow the totem or not in an urban
situation.
THANKS BULL!
kim
Message no. 6
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: new mongoose totem
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:27:02 -0400
Your mongoose shaman has too many advantages and not enough
disadvantages. Give it +2 for combat and illusion instead of 3 for
illusion and 1 for combat. In my opinionit should have -2 for health too.
Nonetheless, I think you got yourself a pretty darn cool totem!

Dust
Message no. 7
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: new mongoose totem -Reply
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:05:56 -0700
>although I have to say, the <grump> </grump> eliminates you from the
>Mac
>crowd....

Huh..[puzzeled look]...

* +2d FOREST sprirts
* +2d ILLUSION spells
* +1d COMBAT spells

A little better..although I would probably go down to +1d for spirits..And
I'm still wondering where the illuson bonus is coming from...What is the
justification??

>....... He likes to confuse his enemy and then strike with great speed
>and ferrocity.

Is this where it comes from?? if that is the case..combat spells might
even deserve a pick me up...

>It is a Willpower(4) test to not hunt the Snake down.
>Mongoose is not a nurturer, -1 die to HEALTH spells.

Your WP tests are better now...And the one for Snake Shaman is a bit
better now...Although I would make that one daily for hanging around a
Snake Shaman..

>So I left the Snake hater in there, this is not meant to be played by
>everybody.

I kinda like it..and it goes along with the snake killer legend of a Mongoose

>But it is meant to compliment other totems.

I really like this part of it...

--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 8
From: Kim Christiansen <kimc@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: new mongoose totem -Reply
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:27:05 +0100
> From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
> Subject: Re: new mongoose totem -Reply
>
> * +2d FOREST sprirts
> * +2d ILLUSION spells
> * +1d COMBAT spells
>
> A little better..although I would probably go down to +1d for spirits..And
> I'm still wondering where the illuson bonus is coming from...What is the
> justification??
>
> >....... He likes to confuse his enemy and then strike with great speed
> >and ferrocity.
>
> Is this where it comes from?? if that is the case..combat spells might
> even deserve a pick me up...
Yes, this is where it comes from. Mongoose is a sneak, like other of the
weasil family,
he uses stealth to sneak up on his enemy.

> >It is a Willpower(4) test to not hunt the Snake down.
> >Mongoose is not a nurturer, -1 die to HEALTH spells.
>
> Your WP tests are better now...And the one for Snake Shaman is a bit
> better now...Although I would make that one daily for hanging around a
> Snake Shaman..
>
> >So I left the Snake hater in there, this is not meant to be played by
> >everybody.
>
> I kinda like it..and it goes along with the snake killer legend of a
Mongoose
>
> >But it is meant to compliment other totems.
>
> I really like this part of it...
>
> --------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"


Thanks Granite, I think that I'll leave it as is, but you're certainly
welcome to change it for your use!

This totem is designed for a certain kind of player, the "noble theif" if
you will. While I generally dislike
the concept, I thinkthe Mongoose Shaman might just do the trick.

kim
Message no. 9
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: new mongoose totem -Reply
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:05:20 -0700
> > * +1d COMBAT spells
>>.......combat spells might
> > even deserve a pick me up...

I was paying attention wasn't I....

> Yes, this is where it comes from. ....

Cool...I was a bit unclear at the time....Thanks..

> This totem is designed for a certain kind of player,......

And I daresay..A certain kind of campeign as well...
Not every GM would be able to fit the opposition to Snake in..But
with good RolePlayers..it should be fun...
--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer

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