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Message no. 1
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:20:09 GMT
> From: Jonathan Wright <jwrigh01@********.ca>
>
[advise you stop here unless you have read Worlds Without End -
spoiler alert]






> Page 126 to 130, "Worlds Without End" and then 133 to 138. From my
> understanding of the book Aina's spirit child (Thais) attempted to teach
> the Sioux of the late 1800's "great ritual magics" to rid their lands of
> the white men. Their failure led to the massacre at Wounded Knee. This
> could possibly be an early form of the Great Ghost Dance but I don't
> think so. It is also mentioned that Thais appeared to the people of
> Indochina (albeit disguised as seven headed serpent), would he not have
> also taught these people the rituals he taught the Sioux? If so, both
> peoples would have enacted Ghost Dances by now (if not for freedom than
> for power).
>
> Jon Wright
>
I found it. And did some checking.
Yes Thais is the son of Ania and Ysgrthe [however you spell that
'things' name]
Ysgarthe had been on at Thais just before he 'chatted' with Ania in
WWE.
It is difficult to be sure about it but Thais was responsible for the
18xx Ghost dance and could very well have been responsible for
Howling cyotes one as well. If he was its more than possible
Ysgarthe put him up to it, after all he manouvered Ania into using
Crater lake.
Thais's monster form is almost certain the result of his father like
the rumors of the shamen in the note from Dunklezahn to Ania who
changed to something terrible just before they lost control of
spells. This again looks like horror corruption.

Thais claimed Ysgarthe was the only enemy through yet but somwthing
was causing the Atzlan trouble Dunklezahn reported at the end and
Ania toasted Ysgarthe using one of the planets real power sites (why
do you think the Tir's where it is) [though what number on the power
scale crater lake is is more problematic]

Oh well, we're fragged! just it looks like from what Jan etc have
been saying that at least for this year only novels and threats may
contain this sort of stuff, and i got the (hopeful though) idea
threats was supposed to be 'take it or leave it' big movers and plots
stuff. No more 'they nuked.....' stuff like Bug city.

Mark
Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:41:06 +1100 (EST)
>Thais claimed Ysgarthe was the only enemy through yet but somwthing
>was causing the Atzlan trouble Dunklezahn reported at the end and
>Ania toasted Ysgarthe using one of the planets real power sites (why
>do you think the Tir's where it is) [though what number on the power
>scale crater lake is is more problematic]

You missed it... Thais warned Aina that there was another, just as subtle
and dangerous as Ysgarthe (who, according to the ED horror book, is one
of the baddest horrors around)


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 3
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:41:19 +1100 (EST)
>It is difficult to be sure about it but Thais was responsible for the
>18xx Ghost dance and could very well have been responsible for
>Howling cyotes one as well. If he was its more than possible
>Ysgarthe put him up to it, after all he manouvered Ania into using
>Crater lake.

Not likely... Ysgarthe only slipped back into our world a little while
ago. Thais did it of his own free will, acting in what he thought were
the best interests of the Indians.

--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realizedthat a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent infinding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 4
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:13:42 GMT
> From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>

> You missed it... Thais warned Aina that there was another,
not in that section i checked, but i did try to do it in 5 mins flat,
so possible

> just as subtle
> and dangerous as Ysgarthe (who, according to the ED horror book, is one
> of the baddest horrors around)
>
Unfortunately i play ED, i really could use a good enough excuse to
read several books :(, though i have put quite a bit together from
the comments made here.

And whos worried about 'one of the baddest' , poh ED characters have
problems with Vergigorm the worst of the lot. We had a character hit
by a spell from that 'thing' on Sunday, and yes we were doing our
best impression of warp 9 [the heck outta there, unfortunately ED
characters aren't too good at that :(] at the time!

Mark
Message no. 5
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:16:44 GMT
> From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>

> Not likely... Ysgarthe only slipped back into our world a little while
> ago.
Probably, as he would most likely have contacted Ania fairly soon
after arrival, but this all depends to wether or not Ysgarthe needs
to be here in order to contact Thais or not. I don't know anything
like enough about the true limits of horror powers to judge that one.

> Thais did it of his own free will, acting in what he thought were
> the best interests of the Indians.
>
Yes that is most likely but.....

Mark
Message no. 6
From: Jonathan Wright <jwrigh01@********.ca>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:00:23 -0500 (EST)
On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Mark Steedman wrote:

> > Not likely... Ysgarthe only slipped back into our world a little while
> > ago.
> Probably, as he would most likely have contacted Ania fairly soon
> after arrival, but this all depends to wether or not Ysgarthe needs
> to be here in order to contact Thais or not. I don't know anything
> like enough about the true limits of horror powers to judge that one.
>

This comment brings up another interesting point. If Ysgarthe was exiled
to the realm of Horrors beyond the astral plane for the low-mana cycle,
how did he manage to maintain a Horror mark on Aina? Horror Marks only
last for a year and a day, but can be renewed if the Horror is within
_100 miles_ of the victim.

Jon Wright
Message no. 7
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:44:16 GMT
> From: Jonathan Wright <jwrigh01@********.ca>

>
> This comment brings up another interesting point. If Ysgarthe was exiled
> to the realm of Horrors beyond the astral plane for the low-mana cycle,
> how did he manage to maintain a Horror mark on Aina?
um.

> Horror Marks only
> last for a year and a day, but can be renewed if the Horror is within
> _100 miles_ of the victim.
>
I can think of three possibles.
1) Ysgarthe has a plot 'out' he is supposed to be one of the most
powerful and this is a novel not a sourcebook. He might have been
allowed to break that rule.
2) There may be an upgrade to that power in the horrors book, there
are also such things as 'thought worm' even in the main book.
3) If i am right the physical location equivalent of the horros plane
is space, he could have sat directly over her location on earth for
5000 years (surface to space is < 100 miles!) ok this one is frought
with complications like what happens if she 'teleports' but. [that
latter might be solved by the fact that the teleport the immortals
keep using is i suspect the 'Netherwalk' someone mentioned, and if i
am right in what that is its not a teleport though it would look like
it to mundane eyes. [yeah easy to answer if you read ED companion
which i know contains the answer to this one, but i haven't read]

> Jon Wright
>
Some thoughs.

Mark
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:16:47 +1100 (EST)
>This comment brings up another interesting point. If Ysgarthe was exiled
>to the realm of Horrors beyond the astral plane for the low-mana cycle,
>how did he manage to maintain a Horror mark on Aina? Horror Marks only
>last for a year and a day, but can be renewed if the Horror is within
>_100 miles_ of the victim.

I get the feeling that what lay between Aina and Ysgarthe was more than
just a Horror Mark. It seems like Aina at one time became the willing
ally/servant of Ysgarthe. This could make a more robust (but less
effective) bond. I say less effective because it didn't appear that
Ysgarthe had any power of Aina 'cept for dream messages.

Anyway, who said that 100 miles had to be taken literally? How far away,
in physical terms, are the metaplanes?


--
* *
/_\ "A friend is someone who likes the same TV programs you do" /_\
{~._.~} "Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen {~._.~}
( Y ) to be dressed for it." -- Woody Allen ( Y )
()~*~() Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au ()~*~()
(_)-(_) (_)-(_)
Message no. 9
From: Quicksilver <jhurley1@******.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: new npc : howling cyote : WWE
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:48:39 -0500 (EST)
On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Robert Watkins wrote:

> >This comment brings up another interesting point. If Ysgarthe was exiled
> >to the realm of Horrors beyond the astral plane for the low-mana cycle,
> >how did he manage to maintain a Horror mark on Aina? Horror Marks only
> >last for a year and a day, but can be renewed if the Horror is within
> >_100 miles_ of the victim.
>
> I get the feeling that what lay between Aina and Ysgarthe was more than
> just a Horror Mark. It seems like Aina at one time became the willing
> ally/servant of Ysgarthe. This could make a more robust (but less
> effective) bond. I say less effective because it didn't appear that
> Ysgarthe had any power of Aina 'cept for dream messages.

Ummm, there is a full page piece of grey-scale art in the Earthdawn main
book with the caption "Aina reaches for immortality." The picture is of
a human or elf reaching into a gate of some kind being held open by a
hooror, with her eyes covered (and very little else, but that's besides
the point)

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Thwap!