Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Curtis W Patrick <cpatri@**.TAMU.EDU>
Subject:	New Races
Date:	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 20:52:07 -0500

Message no. 1 One must be very careful when considering adding new "races" to shadowrun.
It may be better to add them simply as "monsters". For example- Pixies
would really change the game around as far as infultration went. This little
guys just put on some camo and fly through all the securities, plug in a
disk/opt-chip, steal info, fly out. Kind of a drag. How about their stats?
Bod - 2, Siz-2, Int-6, Wis-6, Qui-9, etc....

Though I think the minotaur (I can spell it, I can spell it, tthhhbbbblllttt)
is an acceptable addition because it is roughly human size (like the rest of
the metas). Goblins should probably be an awakened iguanna or something.
Pretty stupid, pretty weak, can't have cyber-stuff.

Centaurs MIGHT be ok, though they would change the way you look at the game and
everything.

Oh well, my 2p.

Kurt

cpatri@**.tamu.edu

From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:00:34 -0500

Message no. 2 Well, pixies would be too goofy for shadowrun, I'd think, but Goblins
might work.

Let's see.

*gets out the SRII book to have a reference*

GOBLIN DWARF ORK
Body 8 +2 7 9
Quickness 6 -- 5 6
Strength 8 +2 8 8
Charisma 5 -1 6 5
Intelligence 5 -1 6 5
Willpower 6 -- 7 6
Essence 6 -- 6 6
Magic 6 -- 6 6
Reacion 5 -- 6 6

Total Stats +2

Eyes: Low-Light
Special #1: --
Special #2: --

Height: average ~4.5 feet.

----------

Hmmm, I couldn't even come up with a way to rationally give them +3 stats.
The race concept is sound, but the stats don't pan out correctly.

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \ /__ hayden@****.cs.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \/ / aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <]}
{[> #include <std_disclaimer.h> \/ <]}
-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 0.3): GSS d- p--/-p+ c++ l++ m+/* s-/++ g+ w++ t++ r++ x+

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Random Thought:

"It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."
-- Grace Murray Hopper
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:15:23 -0500

Message no. 3 On Tue, 13 Jul 1993, Curtis W Patrick wrote:

> One must be very careful when considering adding new "races" to shadowrun.
> It may be better to add them simply as "monsters". For example- Pixies
> would really change the game around as far as infultration went. This little
> guys just put on some camo and fly through all the securities, plug in a
> disk/opt-chip, steal info, fly out. Kind of a drag. How about their stats?
> Bod - 2, Siz-2, Int-6, Wis-6, Qui-9, etc....

They'd be about .8 to 1.0 meters tall. Very quick, very bright. Probably
a -2 strength and -2 body, +3 quickness, +2 Int, +1 Wis, +1 Char.
Max reaction would be a 7. Tend to make GREAT mages and shamans.

As for 'security', they won't have it much easier. A nasty something
called 'motion detectors' can ruin anyone's day :)

Perhaps 'pixie' is the wrong name. Tinkerbell was a pixie and she was
only 6 inches tall. What am I thinking of? Fairie? (that seems wrong to
have as a PC). Soemthing about 3 feets tall with wings.

> Centaurs MIGHT be ok, though they would change the way you look at the game and
> everything.

That could get WEIRD!

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \ /__ hayden@****.cs.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \/ / aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <]}
{[> #include <std_disclaimer.h> \/ <]}
-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 0.3): GSS d- p--/-p+ c++ l++ m+/* s-/++ g+ w++ t++ r++ x+

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Random Thought:

"Resist, expose, or stop immediately every public school or group sex
education program, no matter what it is called or how it is diffused into
the curriculum."
-- Fr. Paul Marx, President, Human Life International, in his brochure,
From Contraception to Abortion, as quoted in "The Far Right, Speaking
For Themselves," a Planned Parenthood pamphlet
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From:	Curtis W Patrick <cpatri@**.TAMU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 09:41:08 -0500

Message no. 4 I still don't think a goblin makes a good race. They are just too
weak in D&D. You have given him a big body, which isn't really accurate
for goblins. They tended to attack in large groups (like kobolds) because
they had to compensate for being small.

I think that this particular race does deserve the +3 attrib that the other
metas get, heck they should be +0 or minus something instead.

Kurt

From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 09:56:59 -0500

Message no. 5 On Wed, 14 Jul 1993, Curtis W Patrick wrote:

> I still don't think a goblin makes a good race. They are just too
> weak in D&D. You have given him a big body, which isn't really accurate
> for goblins. They tended to attack in large groups (like kobolds) because
> they had to compensate for being small.

D&D! ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

My concept was more along the like of the Tolkein goblins and the ilk.
Good infantrymen. Maybe not too bright, but hardy (that's the key word)
fighters.

AD&D tends to make goblins some low-level scum that even a 2 hp mage could
wax off.

DM: You see a goblin standing here
1st level Mage: I sneeze at him. 15xp please.

Goblin's _work_ in the SR setting, but just not in the stats of the game.

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \ /__ hayden@****.cs.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \/ / aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <]}
{[> #include <std_disclaimer.h> \/ <]}
-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 0.3): GSS d- p--/-p+ c++ l++ m+/* s-/++ g+ w++ t++ r++ x+

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Random Thought:

"A book is the product of a contract with the Devil that inverts the Faustian
contract, he'd told Allie. Dr Faustus sacrificed eternity in return for two
dozen years of power; the writer agrees to the ruination of his life, and
gains (but only if he's lucky) maybe not eternity, but posterity, at least.
Either way (this was Jumpy's point) it's the Devil who wins."
-- Salman Rushdie, _The Satanic Verses_
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From:	Curtis W Patrick <cpatri@**.TAMU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 10:04:13 CDT

Message no. 6 >>>>>
D&D! ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

My concept was more along the like of the Tolkein goblins and the ilk.
Good infantrymen. Maybe not too bright, but hardy (that's the key word)
fighters.

<<<<<

Well, the more I sit here and think about it, the more that sort of
goblin makes sense. Geez, compare SR Orc to (sorry) a D&D orc. D&D orcs
are pretty wimpy (1hd). Makes sense I guess.

I might throw in a Centaurian nation in my world. "Centaurians are cool"
(Beavis and Butthead in some future Cyber based show)

Kurt

From:	steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:	New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:40:03 EST

Message no. 7 About the "Minotaur" as a new race... NO COMMENT! *growl* :)

But since you folks are theorizing about these new races I
have one for you to tihnk about; I have no stats for it yet but
the idea came to me when I made it a Fixer in my world. The players
are a bit scared of the fella so I have not had to dress him out
that much. Anyway here goes... a simple question to end it all:

What do you get when you take an SR Ghoul and infect him/her
with HMHVV ???

Da First, Da Original, Da Only......

Da Minotaur :)

From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 12:40:24 -0500

Message no. 8 On Wed, 14 Jul 1993, steven mancini wrote:

> What do you get when you take an SR Ghoul and infect him/her
> with HMHVV ???

##########
##########
##########
####
###
###
##
##
## ##
## ##
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
## ##
## ##
## ##
##
##
###
####
######
##########
##########
## ##
## ##
## ##
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
## ## ##
## ## ##
##
##
##
##
##
##
##
## ## ##
## ## ##
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
## ##
## ##
## ##
##
##
##
######
###########
##############
###################
########################
######################## ##
######################## ##
########################
########################
#########################
#########################
####################
#########
#########
########
##########
#####################
########################
#########################
#########################
####################
#########
#########
########
#########
#########
######### ##
######### ##
############
######
##
##
##
##
##
##
####
#########
## ######
## ########
#######
########
### #######
### #######
### ########
### #######
### #######
### #########
### #################
### #####################
### ######################
### #####################
########################
######################
## #####################
## ######################
########################
###################
###############
#############
#########
####
##
##
##
## ##
## ##
## ##
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
###################################################
## ## ##
## ## ##
## ##
## ##
## ##
## ##
### ###
### ###
### ####
#### #####
###### ######
####################
#################
#################
############
#####

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \ /__ hayden@****.cs.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \/ / aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <]}
{[> #include <std_disclaimer.h> \/ <]}
-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 0.3): GSS d- p--/-p+ c++ l++ m+/* s-/++ g+ w++ t++ r++ x+

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Random Thought:

Flee at once, all is discovered.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From:	"Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject:	New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 10:57:29 -0700

Message no. 9 Robert:

I liked your stats for Minotaur characters. +4 Body, +3 Strength, -2 Charisma,
-2 Intelligence, and -1 Willpower makes them smaller and faster than trolls
without making them look just like Orks.

As for the special abilities I think they should have thermographic vision.
After all the other subterrainion (so I can't spell) race, Dwarves, has
thermographic. Also this would make it easy for them to track and fight
underground. Keep the +1 Reach, they would be just big enough to get it, but
you left out detailson the Horns. I think they should do (Strength)M physical
damage, but would not benefit from the +1 reach.

*****

Now in designing any race for use as a metahuman race, I think they should
always follow the +3 overall characteristic bonus. Then they should gain some
type of vision enhancement, not necessarily just Low-Light or Thermographic.
An addition power or two can be added, but they should make sense and be
proportionally as effective as those of Dwarves and Trolls.

*****

While you guys are running rampant contimplating additional races for Shadowrun
you should sit down for a minute and figure out which ones are already in
existance in one way or another. Some are already metahuman races while others
are paranatural spieces. Minotaurs for example are both in PNGE, however I find
the stats above more pleasing than saying, "their's trolls that just look a
little different."

On that veine, I think that goblins already exist as a paranatural species in
either PNGNA or PNGE. Also I would have to agree with Jeremy that Orks and
Trolls are "goblins" in the general sense. Why else is the transformation
called Goblinization?

Gargoyles, Cenatuars, and Pixies (or were they sprites?) are all in PNGE as
paranatural species. Reguardless, I don't think they would be well suited to
use by player characters. PC races should be humaniod, without abilities
greatly diverent from those of humans.

Ogres are mentioned in PNGE as being, "Orks that look different". I think they
would be a prime candidate for the "Minotaur treatment". And what about Hobbits
(or halflings if you perfer)? Or Gnomes? The list could go on and on and on...

*****

Lastly, just for a little help with Goblins try this.

GOBLIN DWARF ORK
Body 8 +2 7 9
Quickness 6 -- 5 6
Strength 8 +2 8 8
Charisma 6 -1 6 5
Intelligence 5 -- 6 5
Willpower 6 -- 7 6
Essence 6 -- 6 6
Magic 6 -- 6 6
Reacion 5 -- 6 6

Total Stats +3

Eyes: Low-Light
Special #1: --
Special #2: --

Height: average ~4.5 feet.

Remember that in many legends that Goblins were cunning and crafty beings.
Much more so than Orks or Trolls. Thus being smarter than either makes sense.

See Ya in Shadows,
Jason J Carter
The Nightstalker

From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 13:06:12 -0500

Message no. 10 On Wed, 14 Jul 1993, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> While you guys are running rampant contimplating additional races for Shadowrun
> you should sit down for a minute and figure out which ones are already in
> existance in one way or another. Some are already metahuman races while others
> are paranatural spieces. Minotaurs for example are both in PNGE, however I find
> the stats above more pleasing than saying, "their's trolls that just look a
> little different."

As I posted, I do not have the paranormal critter books, so I essentially
have to go with my own knowledge of the legends of old and see what
humanoid races are missing and could be added. I have ALWAYS loved having
lots of available races, so adding more to SRun just increases
opportunities for role-playing.

> On that veine, I think that goblins already exist as a paranatural species in
> either PNGNA or PNGE. Also I would have to agree with Jeremy that Orks and
> Trolls are "goblins" in the general sense. Why else is the transformation
> called Goblinization?

But also remember that 'ork' and 'troll' are essentially common names
given to something. A race could arrive with the same stats as a trol and
be called a Snark for all we know. These 'slang' terms just are coined
and stick.

> Gargoyles, Cenatuars, and Pixies (or were they sprites?) are all in PNGE as
> paranatural species. Reguardless, I don't think they would be well suited to
> use by player characters. PC races should be humaniod, without abilities
> greatly diverent from those of humans.

Pixies/Fairies/Sprites (you know what I mean, the 3 foot winged dudes)
would definately change the game a bit, and they MIGHT even unbalance it.
But I put the idea up for the role-playing potential, not for munchkanism
or something.

I could have a BLAST playing a 3-foot winged decker.

> Ogres are mentioned in PNGE as being, "Orks that look different". I think
they
> would be a prime candidate for the "Minotaur treatment". And what about
Hobbits
> (or halflings if you perfer)? Or Gnomes? The list could go on and on and on...

Ogres would be tough to quantify because they'd be at least as tough as
trolls and not quite as dumb, so getting the +3 overall might be tough.

Gnomes could be fun . . . . 3 foot dudes WITHOUT wings.

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \ /__ hayden@****.cs.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \/ / aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <]}
{[> #include <std_disclaimer.h> \/ <]}
-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 0.3): GSS d- p--/-p+ c++ l++ m+/* s-/++ g+ w++ t++ r++ x+

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Random Thought:

"I think they will be very effective in keeping Catholic legislators away
from the Communion rail."
-- Idaho Senator Mike Blackbird, about ecclesiastical sanctions against
politicians
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From:	"Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:43:34 -0700

Message no. 11 Yah, I know you said you didn't have the paranormal critters books. I should
have taken your name off the top since the comments were supposed to be made
to everyone.

Adding races can be fun, but you don't want to bog down your game with too many
metahuman races, especially if they don't add much to the game. That was one
thing I like about there being just 5 metahuman races in Shadowrun.

Snarks!!!! Hideous reptile dudes.

Comments on slang terms taken.

Races that can fly (pixies/sprites) or run really fast (cenatuars) would be
unbalancing and should be avoided like vampires :)

Ogres would be slightly stronger than orks, but probably a little dumber.
How about
Maximum Bonus
Ork Orge Ork Orge
Body 9 9 +3 +3
Quickness 6 5 -1
Strength 8 10 +2 +3
Charisma 5 5 -1 -1
Intelligence 5 5 -1 -1
Willpower 6 5
Reaction 5 5

Ogre's would have Low-Light vision.

Now about gnomes.....

See Ya in Shadows,
Jason J Carter
The Nightstalker

From:	"David R. Henry" <dhenry@******.NODAK.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:35:20 CDT

Message no. 12 > What do you get when you take an SR Ghoul and infect him/her
> with HMHVV ???

Dinner!

drh, bringing content-free posts to the multitudes

From:	Dave The Shade <IZZYUX2@*******.BITNET>
Subject:	New Races
Date:	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 22:36:00 PDT

Message no. 13 Flare, you seem to be rather on the conservative side of the GM stick (no
offense intended) Pixies are a perfectly valid archtype. Nothing about them is
WRONG. They do not unbalance the game (unlike Vamps), their abilities are not
outrageous. They have a PC purpose (fun and interesting to play). The prob of
background and existance can be overcome with creative storytelling.
I see nothing wrong with Pixies, Ogres, Minotaurs, Goblins, or even Gnomes as
PCs.

KHANx

From:	"Dark Thought Publications." <JEK5313@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Fri, 16 Jul 1993 01:12:31 -0500

Message no. 14 KHANx:
]Flare, you seem to be rather on the conservative side of the GM stick (no
]offense intended) Pixies are a perfectly valid archtype. Nothing about them is
]WRONG. They do not unbalance the game (unlike Vamps), their abilities are not
]outrageous. They have a PC purpose (fun and interesting to play). The prob of
]background and existance can be overcome with creative storytelling.
]I see nothing wrong with Pixies, Ogres, Minotaurs, Goblins, or even Gnomes as
]PCs.

Maybe I _am_ being conserative, but after you've seen the faerie magic as in
the Paras of Europe, I don't like the idea of a whole slew of these folks
running around, hitting people with glamours and such.

I never said that they unbalance the game. I said that I don't like them as
PCs. (As NPCs. . . heh!) Also, that the game system just wasn't designed for
them.

I'd really love to see the pixies come out, AS NPCs, but I'd like to see them
grow out from the game, instead of coincidentally meet with it on some points.

-Flare.

From:	Stuart Marsh <sam10@***.AC.UK>
Subject:	New Races
Date:	Tue, 7 Feb 1995 14:05:25 +0000

Message no. 15 Where are the hobbits in shadow run I ask. I know they seem out of place for a
genre such as shadowrun but they could add new fun to the game.

Exert From Sentients of the World Vol. II, 2046, Picard and wilson
pubishers, produced by Prof. H.Lyman BSc. PhD.

______________________________________________________________________________
Halflings
Homo sapiens piconis
>>Identification: Halflings stand about 0.9 meter tall and weigh roughly
35-40 kilos. There skin colouration is as varied as that found in homo
sapiens sapiens. Female halflings have 2 mamae, and all halflings have
32 teath. There legs are slightly short in comparison to there bodies
and there actual size would make them poor runners, except for the fact
they so considerable agility and speed. Body hair is sparse, and
halflings rarley have facial hair other than large side burns, hair also
shows a tendincey to be dark and curly.Halfling ears are usualy rounded
though some types do have a slight point.
>>Habitat: This subspieces prefers rural enviroments, most comonly found in
large close comunities in rolling hill lands or light forests, although
they show considerable adaptability to an urban setting.
>>Habits: Halflings will tend to be more active in daytime. There diet is
omnivorous with a tendencey to herbivorous. Populations form large
friendly communities with a lot of precendence placed on family ties and
relations. Halflings will tend to intergrate with other societies rarely
having a halfling only society. There life span is unverified, but
metabolic prodictions sugest a life span over a hundred years but less
than that of homo sapiens pumillonis. There breading season is 273.5 days.
Young: One normaly, rarely twins, very rare cases of multipul births
above two. Birth weight is 5.4% of mother's weight. Suckling time is
greater than 13 months.
>>Commentry: Halflings show an unnormaly high metabolism, but this doesn't
lead to shorter life spans. They are able to metabolise food at almost
twice the rate of homo sapiens sapiens and also tend to have a more
efficent energy storage system which stores reseves at fat, but
surprisingly doesn't increase the chance of heart desease or other cardiac
disorders.
______________________________________________________________________________

Game mechanics

-1 Body -2 Strength +4 Quickness +1 Inteligence +1 Charisma.
Racial maximums
Body: 5 Quickness: 10 Strength: 4 Charisma:7 Inteligence:7 Willpower: 6
Halflings will tend to eat more than humans and eat at often and plenty
at regular intervals.
Halflings also have a bonus of 2 skill points which must be used on any
of the following skills
Projectile weapons , thrown weapons and stealth.
Halflings do not have a native language, not one which has been heard so far.

Rumours of halfling setlements in the elven tirs abound. Halflings are
known to exeist in large numbers in areas of northern ukrain and the
northern ex soviet states such as siberia.

Stuart
aka Cinder

From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:26:16 -0600

Message no. 16 On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Stuart Marsh wrote:

> Where are the hobbits in shadow run I ask. I know they seem out of place for a
> genre such as shadowrun but they could add new fun to the game.

They were written up in NERPS Shadowlore

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I am Pentium of Borg
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> you will be approximated

From:	"J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Tue, 7 Feb 1995 11:35:53 -0500

Message no. 17 On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Stuart Marsh wrote:

> Where are the hobbits in shadow run I ask. I know they seem out of place for a
> genre such as shadowrun but they could add new fun to the game.

They're in NERPS: Shadowlore. Of course, if that version is
unsatisfactory, I can see no problem with updated Halfling information
("Hobbit" is copywritten by Tolkien's estate) being included in NERPS:
Shadowlore II, which is rapidly reaching its final closing deadlines.

-------------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com> =========-------------
| NERPS Project Leader (Editor & General Motivator), Keeper of the FAQ |
--------========== http://www.cais.com/jdfalk/home.html ==========--------

From:	"Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Tue, 7 Feb 1995 11:59:34 -0500

Message no. 18 If you want Halflings...How about Gnomes or Kender...
Kender: "How did THAT get into my pouch??!!"
Gnome: "We need a conferencetofigureoutwhatwentwrongwiththethingymajing."
Just some ideas. :)
Tom

From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Tue, 7 Feb 1995 13:54:45 -0600

Message no. 19 On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Thomas W. Craig wrote:

> If you want Halflings...How about Gnomes or Kender...
> Kender: "How did THAT get into my pouch??!!"
> Gnome: "We need a conferencetofigureoutwhatwentwrongwiththethingymajing."
> Just some ideas. :)

This is Shadowrun, not AD&D. All being act DIFFERENTLY. They don't all
fit into some bigoted stereotype. If I wanted all charaters of a
particular race to behave the same, I'd de-evolve and play AD&D and
similiar games. SR is about ROLE-playing, not ROLL-playing.

Sheesh

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I am Pentium of Borg
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> you will be approximated

From:	Frank Steinhauer <steinhau@**********.UNI-FRANKFURT.DE>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 8 Feb 1995 11:05:43 +0100

Message no. 20 > This is Shadowrun, not AD&D. All being act DIFFERENTLY. They don't all
> fit into some bigoted stereotype. If I wanted all charaters of a
> particular race to behave the same, I'd de-evolve and play AD&D and
> similiar games. SR is about ROLE-playing, not ROLL-playing.
>
> ____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu

I think you make a mistake there: All RPG's are capable of ROLE-playing, it just
depends on the PEOPLE. I had very good AD&D-sessions with MUCH roleplaying, just
because I had good people to play with. On the other hand, I'm in a SR-group
with a very poor roleplaying-attidude (It's getting better though, with a new GM)
Without a good GM and good players you can't have ROLE-playing, and the best
system don't provides role-playing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tonight is TNG:GENERATIONS night in Germany !!!!! I'll be there...... Engage !

From:	Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 8 Feb 1995 11:57:31 +0100

Message no. 21 >I think you make a mistake there: All RPG's are capable of ROLE-playing, it just
>depends on the PEOPLE. I had very good AD&D-sessions with MUCH roleplaying, just
>because I had good people to play with. On the other hand, I'm in a SR-group
>with a very poor roleplaying-attidude (It's getting better though, with a new GM)
>Without a good GM and good players you can't have ROLE-playing, and the best
>system don't provides role-playing.

No, but the worst system (**&*) sure does does have a negative influence
on it.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?

From:	Philip Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 8 Feb 1995 11:49:29 -0000

Message no. 22 > I think you make a mistake there: All RPG's are capable of ROLE-playing, it just
> depends on the PEOPLE. I had very good AD&D-sessions with MUCH roleplaying, just
> because I had good people to play with. On the other hand, I'm in a SR-group
> with a very poor roleplaying-attitude (It's getting better though, with a
> with a new GM)
> Without a good GM and good players you can't have ROLE-playing, and the
> best system don't provides role-playing.

No but it helps :)
Having only moved over to SR from AD&D several months ago, I am still
in the same gaming group. The level of ROLE-playing in the group has
gone up ever since. This is because SR is better suited to Role-playing
than AD&D.

Phil
<Philip.Hayward@***.UK>

From:	Gareth Owen <glowen1@*****.NHS.GOV.UK>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:03:40 +0000

Message no. 23 > >Without a good GM and good players you can't have ROLE-playing, and the best
> >system don't provides role-playing.
>
> No, but the worst system (**&*) sure does does have a negative influence
> on it.
>

AD&D aint the worst system.

I know.

I've seen worse.

It wasn't pretty.

GLO

--
Gareth Owen | Mail: glowen1@*****.nhs.gov.uk
Sytems Programmmer | Phone: (UK) 0495 765021
Gwent Health Authority | "Reboot it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"

From:	Riffs <rivchin@****.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Wed, 8 Feb 1995 13:14:22 EST

Message no. 24 I'd like to get in on this discussion about roleplaying vs. roll-playing
and AD&D vs. SR.
I've also recently begaun playing SR. Prior to this, my experience with AD&D
had been mixed. Our long standing group of good friends (we've been playing
for about six years) evolved into a good role-playing groove. Much does
depend on the mood of both the GM and the players. I do think that the SR
system of attributes and skills is more conducive to role-playing than AD&D's
strict class and alignment systems, but what I as a DM did was to do what all
good GM's do: tailor the system to my needs. Any rule system is merely a
guideline as to how you should play the game. It by no stretch of the
imagination is something which should restrict the playing of the game.
A good system allows interpretation and options, and I think both systems
have something to offer. The problem with AD&D is that it does tend to
concentrate on combat and stats which leads to munchkinism.

Anyway, a good GM use the system to his advantage to create the kind of
world in which he and his players will enjoy playing in.

----------riffs "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but where will we find a
duck and a hose at this hour?"

From:	"Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Thu, 9 Feb 1995 07:44:59 -0500

Message no. 25 Gods, can't anyone take a little joke? If you would look closely...I PUT A
GOD DAMN SMILEY AT THE END!!!!!
Tom

From:	"Larry D. Shepard" <bludhawk@**.NET>
Subject:	New Races
Date:	Fri, 20 Dec 1996 02:41:23 -0600

Message no. 26 How many new races of player characters are ther besides Minotuar,
Halfling, Ogre? ( frined of mine mentioned something about a Goblin.)

From:	Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:01:57 +0000

Message no. 27 On 20 Dec 96 at 2:41, Larry D. Shepard wrote:
> How many new races of player characters are ther besides Minotuar,
> Halfling, Ogre? ( frined of mine mentioned something about a Goblin.)
_LOTS_ (14, to be exact). Most of 'em aren't interesting... well, not all are,
at least.

Sascha

From:	Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:01:43 -0600

Message no. 28 Umm, new races? Have I missed something major? Where is this discussed?
In a sourcebook that's just been released, somewhere on the net?

Thanks for any information...

Mike-the-dormant-but-ever-curious-gm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Orion Jackson~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TAMS Class of 1996/UT Class of 199?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~2112 Guadalupe, Rm. 502; Austin, Tx 78705 (The Goodall-Wooten)~~~~~~~
"Goddamn creatures of the night, they never learn." ~Gideon, _The Crow_
"Happiness is but a temporary chemical imbalance of the true baseline state
of our minds."~Lusiphur, quote ill-rembered and butchered by M. O. Jackson

On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:

> On 20 Dec 96 at 2:41, Larry D. Shepard wrote:
> > How many new races of player characters are ther besides Minotuar,
> > Halfling, Ogre? ( frined of mine mentioned something about a Goblin.)
> _LOTS_ (14, to be exact). Most of 'em aren't interesting... well, not all are,
> at least.
>
> Sascha
>

From:	Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:30:43 -0600

Message no. 29 On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Michael Orion Jackson wrote:

> Umm, new races? Have I missed something major? Where is this discussed?
> In a sourcebook that's just been released, somewhere on the net?
>
It's in the Shadowrun Companion. It's got new ways for chracter
creation, edges and flaws, contacts and enemies, etc.
I like the book, but I'm not to fond of the new meta races.

>
> Mike-the-dormant-but-ever-curious-gm
Not you too! :)
-Court

/* Court Schuett

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't want to change the world
I'm not looking for a new England
I'm just looking for another girl
-Too Much Joy
*******************************************************************************/

From:	Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:40:32 -0000

Message no. 30 > Umm, new races? Have I missed something major? Where is this discussed?
> In a sourcebook that's just been released, somewhere on the net?
>
> Thanks for any information...
>
> Mike-the-dormant-but-ever-curious-gm

Most are in the Shadowrun Companion. A mag I have has Halflings in it, and
three other optional races are on my WebPage. At least are the optional
races I'm familiar with.

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:13:49 +0100

Message no. 31 Michael Orion Jackson said on 14:01/20 Dec 96...

> Umm, new races? Have I missed something major? Where is this discussed?
> In a sourcebook that's just been released, somewhere on the net?

Three sources that I know of: the first is Paranormal Animals of Europe,
which has two races that use the same game stats as existing ones; another
is NERPS: ShadowLore, that has three races with new game stats; and the
latest is the SR Companion, with a handful of races that don't conform to
the familiar "+3 Attributes and better vision" way of handling metahumans.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And then I realized I had 65,407,413 bytes of stuff in my
C:\Shadowrun directory...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:53:06 -0500

Message no. 32 At 02:01 PM 12/20/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Umm, new races? Have I missed something major? Where is this discussed?
>In a sourcebook that's just been released, somewhere on the net?
>
>Thanks for any information...
>
>Mike-the-dormant-but-ever-curious-gm
>
I think they are referring to the Variant Meta-types from the SR Companion.

Steve

From:	Ron Clark <rclark@****.NET>
Subject:	New Races
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:28:24 -0600

Message no. 33 I know it's always up to the GM on such things, but I was wondering how
everyone else considered creating new races. I'm not worried about
abilities and what not, I'm more concerned with the Race's interaction in
the world. I've always the Shadowrun world to be abit racest (Orks hating
trolls, trolls hating dwarves, and humans hating anything and everything
that isn't pure). Is Sr3 actually that racist or is that something I've
just come up with? And even if SR3 isn't that racist, does't racial
discrimination and hatred grow the farther away from the "pure human" tree?
How racist is the world and how many would allow new races?

Ron
#include disclamer.h

From:	David Lightfinger <lightfinger@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: New Races
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:40:13 -0600

Message no. 34 Ron Clark wrote:
>
> I know it's always up to the GM on such things, but I was wondering how
> everyone else considered creating new races. I'm not worried about
> abilities and what not, I'm more concerned with the Race's interaction in
> the world. I've always the Shadowrun world to be abit racest (Orks hating
> trolls, trolls hating dwarves, and humans hating anything and everything
> that isn't pure). Is Sr3 actually that racist or is that something I've
> just come up with? And even if SR3 isn't that racist, does't racial
> discrimination and hatred grow the farther away from the "pure human" tree?
> How racist is the world and how many would allow new races?

Yes, there is a heavy bit of racism built into the background of
Shadowrun. Not only between the races, but also involving the Native
Americans. You are not imagining things.

I liken the discrimination and racism in SR similar to Alien Nation, the
old television show which is sometimes replayed on the Sci Fi channel.
If you have a chance, watch a couple of these shows. It is about a human
cop and an alien cop who are partners. At first, the human dislikes the
alien, but as time goes on, he gets past his racial bias.

For another good place to look, check out the Cal Free State
supplement...especially the San Francisco section.

--David

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer