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Message no. 1
From: Stefan casanova@***.passagen.se
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:09:05 +0000
Hmm about last week there was a thread about how good the New Seattle
book really was. So I made a few comments about what I thought and
also noted that I had not read the book cover to cover yet but merely
browsed the book, having come down with a nasty bug this week (It has
been taken care of now) I had time to read it. It is actually way
better than the old Seattle Sourcebook. Sure the facts are the same
but the layout and presentation is way better except for one thing.
There is something truey weird in the works.

The Seattle Sourcebook claims to be the guide to Seattle ano 2050 and
New Seattle 2060. A period of ten years. In that period Seattle has
had a population increase of exactly ZERO. The facts are exactly the
same, the city is still holding steady at 3.000.000 citizen (legal I
guess). Isn't that sort of weird that a megaplax doesn't gain a
single citizen in ten years ?! :)

that's all folks ...

stefan


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage ..........[updated] http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/stefan/ ...
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Message no. 2
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:54:20 -0500
The Seattle Sourcebook claims to be the guide to Seattle ano 2050 and
New Seattle 2060. A period of ten years. In that period Seattle has
had a population increase of exactly ZERO. The facts are exactly the
same, the city is still holding steady at 3.000.000 citizen (legal I
guess). Isn't that sort of weird that a megaplax doesn't gain a
single citizen in ten years ?! :)


stefan
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its not really all that odd, no. Many industrialized nations exhibit
zero or negative local population growth. For example, growth in the L.A.
area was explosive through the 80's and early 90's, but has now halted and
may even be negative. Most urban expansion is horizontal; the Seattle
metroplex has nowhere to go, as its surrounded by NAN land (where I WOULD
expect a population increase).
Also, they had that little accident last X-mas that cost them about
100,000 people. I doubt the continuing Army occupation downtown has boosted
immigration much, either. I'd expect Seattle has almost as much of an
"image problem" as Chicago.

Mongoose
Message no. 3
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:15:01 +0200
According to Mongoose, at 8:54 on 5 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> Also, they had that little accident last X-mas that cost them about
> 100,000 people.

Not if you add up the numbers. In fact, the population figures in New
Seattle are _exactly_ the same as those in the Seattle Sourcebook. Though
I didn't check it, I expect the percentages for each race are also the
same.

> I doubt the continuing Army occupation downtown has boosted
> immigration much, either. I'd expect Seattle has almost as much of an
> "image problem" as Chicago.

You seem to be forgetting newly-born children. AFAIK, in all parts of the
world the number of births is greater than the number of deaths over any
given period of time, not including wars, major natural disasters, or
similar things of course. In industralized countries the ratio is lower
than in developing parts of the world, but still I don't think there's
anywhere in the world where the population is staying stable, let alone
going down.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here I am, still intact, and I should give myself credit for that
-- Tilt, "Unravel"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:15:01 +0200
According to Stefan, at 15:09 on 5 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> The Seattle Sourcebook claims to be the guide to Seattle ano 2050 and
> New Seattle 2060. A period of ten years. In that period Seattle has
> had a population increase of exactly ZERO. The facts are exactly the
> same, the city is still holding steady at 3.000.000 citizen (legal I
> guess). Isn't that sort of weird that a megaplax doesn't gain a
> single citizen in ten years ?! :)

If you add up all the figures given in the Seattle Sourcebook for the
individual districts, you end up with 3,011,000 citizens (plus 92,000 in
the Arcology and 3,000 on Council Island). I haven't checked the values in
New Seattle, but I'll do it now just because you've got me curious...

Downtown 545,000
Bellevue 209,000
Tacoma 375,000
Everett 229,000
Renton 218,000
Auburn 218,000
Snohomish 115,000
Fort Lewis 98,000
Redmond 498,000
Puyallup 506,000

Total: 3,011,000

It looks like you're right, there is no population increase at all in 10
years...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here I am, still intact, and I should give myself credit for that
-- Tilt, "Unravel"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:41:58 -0500
Gurth wrote:
/According to Stefan, at 15:09 on 5 Jun 99, the word on
/the street was...
/
/> The Seattle Sourcebook claims to be the guide to Seattle ano 2050 and
/> New Seattle 2060. A period of ten years. In that period Seattle has
/> had a population increase of exactly ZERO. The facts are exactly the
/> same, the city is still holding steady at 3.000.000 citizen (legal I
/> guess). Isn't that sort of weird that a megaplax doesn't gain a
/> single citizen in ten years ?! :)
/
/If you add up all the figures given in the Seattle Sourcebook for the
/individual districts, you end up with 3,011,000 citizens (plus 92,000 in
/the Arcology and 3,000 on Council Island). I haven't checked the values in
/New Seattle, but I'll do it now just because you've got me curious...
/
/ Downtown 545,000
/ Bellevue 209,000
/ Tacoma 375,000
/ Everett 229,000
/ Renton 218,000
/ Auburn 218,000
/ Snohomish 115,000
/ Fort Lewis 98,000
/ Redmond 498,000
/ Puyallup 506,000
/
/ Total: 3,011,000
/
/It looks like you're right, there is no population increase at all in 10
/years...

One could always take this error and turn it into a mystery <EGMG>.

-Graht
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3
Geek Code: GCS d-( ) s++:->+ a@ C++>$ US P L >++ E? W++>+++ !N o-- K-
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D+(++) G e+>+++ h--->---- r+++ y+++
http://home.att.net/~Graht
Message no. 6
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 22:25:31 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Graht."
] One could always take this error and turn it into a mystery <EGMG>.

Hah! I can see it...out in the depths of the Barrens, there's a mad
statistician with a collection of guns, raving on and on about how
"...the numbers keep changing, the numbers keep changing! It makes my
work so difficult! Well, I'll put an end to that, won't I? Mwaahahaha!!!"

Has a certain Batman-esque feel to it, doesn't it? :)

-Murder of One
Message no. 7
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:33:44 -0700
Scott Wheelock wrote:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Graht."
> <snip>

> Hah! I can see it...out in the depths of the Barrens, there's a mad
> statistician with a collection of guns, raving on and on about how
> "...the numbers keep changing, the numbers keep changing! It makes my
> work so difficult! Well, I'll put an end to that, won't I? Mwaahahaha!!!"
>
> Has a certain Batman-esque feel to it, doesn't it? :)
>
> -Murder of One

Heeeyyyy......that's an idea....MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Now you shall die to the
MAD STATISTICIAN!!!!

:P

John
Message no. 8
From: Matthew M. Teixeira mteixei1@*****.rr.com
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:20:03 -0400
Is the fact that the population count hasn't changed in ten years really that odd?

Shadowrunners die
Shadowrunners come into town
Children are Born
Old folks die
Runners leave for London
People Leave Seattle
People Move to Seattle
Police die
Children , kids and Adults die

With all the ways the population count can change, it is possible that the total did not
change (maybe not likely, but still possible).

Just another thought chummers.


Matthew M. Teixeira
mteixei1@*****.rr.com
Message no. 9
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 08:28:30 -0500
Penta wrote:
/Scott Wheelock wrote:
/
/> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Graht."
/> <snip>
/
/> Hah! I can see it...out in the depths of the Barrens, there's a mad
/> statistician with a collection of guns, raving on and on about how
/> "...the numbers keep changing, the numbers keep changing! It makes my
/> work so difficult! Well, I'll put an end to that, won't I? Mwaahahaha!!!"
/>
/> Has a certain Batman-esque feel to it, doesn't it? :)
/>
/> -Murder of One
/
/Heeeyyyy......that's an idea....MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Now you shall die to the
/MAD STATISTICIAN!!!!
/
/:P

Or....

Could be that a government AI has the population of Seattle listed in it's
database has been working to make sure that that number is correct. A mid air
collision here, a malfunctioning traffic light there, the medicine shipped to a
hospital is mislabled, a crate of guns falls off a truck in gang territory,
etc.

Or, maybe the AI has hired a handful of assassins and terrorists to keep the
population from growing.

And of course the AI has been covering it's tracks.

The runners could enter the picture when they are hired by the AI to help
manage the population, or targeted by the AI.

Just a thought :)

-Graht
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3
Geek Code: GCS d-( ) s++:->+ a@ C++>$ US P L >++ E? W++>+++ !N o-- K-
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D+(++) G e+>+++ h--->---- r+++ y+++
http://home.att.net/~Graht
Message no. 10
From: Rori Steel cullyn@*****.com.au
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 14:30:18 +0000 (GMT)
>Or....
>
>Could be that a government AI has the population of Seattle listed in it's
>database has been working to make sure that that number is correct. A mid air
>collision here, a malfunctioning traffic light there, the medicine shipped to a
>hospital is mislabled, a crate of guns falls off a truck in gang territory,
>etc.
uh huh
>Or, maybe the AI has hired a handful of assassins and terrorists to keep the
>population from growing.
of course
>And of course the AI has been covering it's tracks.
well... sure
>The runners could enter the picture when they are hired by the AI to help
>manage the population, or targeted by the AI.
hmmmmm...
>Just a thought :)
>-Graht
Braht... just a thought...

you think too much :>

hehehhee

Rori Steel a.k.a Cullyn
cullyn@*****.com.au
members.xoom.com/rori
---
Einstein - "God does not play dice with the universe."
Hawkings - "God not only plays dice, but sometimes he thows them where
they cannot be seen."
Cullyn - "God has a dice script."
---
Message no. 11
From: Stefan casanova@***.passagen.se
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:25:48 +0000
> According to Stefan, at 15:09 on 5 Jun 99, the word on
> the street was...
>
> > The Seattle Sourcebook claims to be the guide to Seattle ano 2050 and
> > New Seattle 2060. A period of ten years. In that period Seattle has
> > had a population increase of exactly ZERO. The facts are exactly the
> > same, the city is still holding steady at 3.000.000 citizen (legal I
> > guess). Isn't that sort of weird that a megaplax doesn't gain a
> > single citizen in ten years ?! :)
>
> If you add up all the figures given in the Seattle Sourcebook for the
> individual districts, you end up with 3,011,000 citizens (plus 92,000 in
> the Arcology and 3,000 on Council Island). I haven't checked the values in
> New Seattle, but I'll do it now just because you've got me curious...
>
> Downtown 545,000
> Bellevue 209,000
> Tacoma 375,000
> Everett 229,000
> Renton 218,000
> Auburn 218,000
> Snohomish 115,000
> Fort Lewis 98,000
> Redmond 498,000
> Puyallup 506,000
>
> Total: 3,011,000
>
> It looks like you're right, there is no population increase at all in 10
> years...
>

Was way ahead of you on that one ... it is amazing how much spare
time you have when you are ill :)

not only the population increase is weird ... do you know they havn't
built or demolished a single hospital in 10 years either :)

stefan


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage ..........[updated] http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/stefan/ ...
... ICQ ................................................... 793828 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Stefan casanova@***.passagen.se
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:39:14 +0000
> Is the fact that the population count hasn't changed in ten years really that odd?
>
> Shadowrunners die
> Shadowrunners come into town
> Children are Born
> Old folks die
> Runners leave for London
> People Leave Seattle
> People Move to Seattle
> Police die
> Children , kids and Adults die
>
> With all the ways the population count can change, it is possible that the total did
not change (maybe not likely, but still possible).
>
> Just another thought chummers.

In my opinion it is quite odd. The fact that shadowrunners drop dead,
come and go is quite irrelevant concidering how few there actually
are in the city they most likely don't even make up more than a
fraction of a percent if even that much.

What is so weird is that the birthrate has to be pretty much the same
as the deathrate for this to happend and well it is just to weird to
be true.

3.000.000+ cramed into a megaplax there are going to be alot of
offsping production and sure alot of death to. But no increase is 10
years is just to far fetched for me.

stefan


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage ..........[updated] http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/stefan/ ...
... ICQ ................................................... 793828 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: Logan Graves logan1@*****.intercom.net
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 17:26:04 -0400
In our last episode, Stefan replied to:
>
> > Is the fact that the population count hasn't changed in ten years really that
odd?
> >
> > Shadowrunners die
> > Shadowrunners come into town
<snip>
> In my opinion it is quite odd. The fact that shadowrunners drop dead,
> come and go is quite irrelevant concidering how few there actually
> are in the city they most likely don't even make up more than a
> fraction of a percent if even that much.

IMntbHO, SINless shadowrunners would _NOT_ be a part of this officially
sanctioned & government-conducted census. They aren't citizens. They aren't
counted. And even if the 2050 census-takers went door-to-door, instead of
relying on SIN-collected data (bank accts, tax records, welfare programs, school
enrollments, etc.), how many 'runners do you think would answer the door & fill
out the forms??! Well, not too many who lived to see 2060 anyway! `;-D


> What is so weird is that the birthrate has to be pretty much the same
> as the deathrate for this to happend and well it is just to weird to
> be true.
>
> 3.000.000+ cramed into a megaplax there are going to be alot of
> offsping production and sure alot of death to. But no increase is 10
> years is just to far fetched for me.

Agreed. Awakened Seattle may be strapped for space, but so is pre-Awakened
Japan. Is their birth/death -rate stable? How about mainland China's?
Last time I checked, Seattle of the 2060's wasn't enforcing any "two children
family" laws, nor any sort of "birth-right lotteries."

¥.02
--Fenris
______________________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Fenrir shamans are mean and ruthless
individuals who have a disturbing tendency
to treat others like their next meal.
(>) Magic in the Shadows, pg 158




From fliaveg
Message no. 14
From: David Hinkley dhinkley@***.org
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:24:48 -0700
From: "Stefan" <casanova@***.passagen.se>
Organization: BTL Entertainment
To: shadowrn@*********.org
Date sent: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:09:05 +0000
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Priority: normal
Send reply to: shadowrn@*********.org

> Hmm about last week there was a thread about how good the New Seattle
> book really was. So I made a few comments about what I thought and
> also noted that I had not read the book cover to cover yet but merely
> browsed the book, having come down with a nasty bug this week (It has
> been taken care of now) I had time to read it. It is actually way
> better than the old Seattle Sourcebook. Sure the facts are the same
> but the layout and presentation is way better except for one thing.
> There is something truey weird in the works.
>
> The Seattle Sourcebook claims to be the guide to Seattle ano 2050 and
> New Seattle 2060. A period of ten years. In that period Seattle has
> had a population increase of exactly ZERO. The facts are exactly the
> same, the city is still holding steady at 3.000.000 citizen (legal I
> guess). Isn't that sort of weird that a megaplax doesn't gain a
> single citizen in ten years ?! :)

Official population figures are determined by the Census, which is done in
years ending in zero. Depending on when in the year the figures were asked
for, the author could have ended up with data from the same Census.

It is also important to note that the Census is an actual head count not an
estmated or calculated figure (i.e. add all the plus factors together subtract
the minus factors and add to the last figure). Given the reputation of some
neighborhoods the acuracy might be less then desired. Then there is the
question of the SINless and those living on extraterratorial lands located
within the boundries, are they included.

Another explanation is that the figures are cooked to insure the maximum
amount of federal government support to local governments. Many federal
add program payments are basied on population, income, and similar
figures, selective counting could have a positive effect on the bottom line.

Then of course FASA could have made an oops.




David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org

===================================================Those who are too intelligent to engage
in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato




From sparrow@***.net.au Mon, 0
Message no. 15
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 19:38:15 +1000
Someone was wondering the distance by road between Seattle and Chicago, or
wondering how long it would take.

By road it is 2060 miles or so (is that coincidence or what that its that number?)
so just take the average speed (including rest breaks) and youve got the time
taken for travel.

GreyWolf





From alvion@****.uni2.dk Mon,
Message no. 16
From: Carsten Gehling alvion@****.uni2.dk
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:43:12 +0100
David Hinkley wrote:

> Then of course FASA could have made an oops.

WHAT??!? How dare you? FASA making an oops? No way, that's out of the question -
you disbeliever!

GRIDSEC do something about this infidel - he is not worthy of submitting posts to
this list. He takes the unexpected and mysterious and logifies it into something
ordinary and simple?

My fantasy-braincells are shaken... :-)

"In conspiracies we trust"

- Carsten






From gurth@******.nl Mon, 7 Ju
Message no. 17
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:45:53 +0200
According to Stefan, at 22:25 on 6 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> not only the population increase is weird ... do you know they havn't
> built or demolished a single hospital in 10 years either :)

Well, that at least can be explained. Perhaps the existing hospitals have
enough capacity and coverage, or new wings or floors have been built onto
them, for example.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here I am, still intact, and I should give myself credit for that
-- Tilt, "Unravel"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998




From karsten@****.net Mon, 7 Ju
Message no. 18
From: Felix Horbach horbach@*****.uni-mannheim.de
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 23:38:27 +0200
Hate to be a spoiler but I think mongoose had a point there.
Most Industrilized countrys today have have birth:death rating of about
10:8 per 1000 inhabitants.
Starting with Seattles population of 3.100.000 that would net 31.000
birthes and ca. 25.000 deaths each year. To simplify matters jast
multiply with ten for a net gain of about 62.000 Inhabitants in 10
years. Well short of the claimed 100.000 that got iced during the
Renraku "incident".
Therefore Mongoose hint at stunted immigration *does* matter if Seattle
were just to break even in terms of population.
Drop out initiated....
Watcher spirit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 - 2 - 1, fusion process started. Thank you for your visit. Have a nice
eternity.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From SHODAN+@***.EDU Mon, 7 Jun
Message no. 19
From: Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:55:10 -0400 (EDT)
Felix Horbach <horbach@*****.uni-mannheim.de> writes:
> Hate to be a spoiler but I think mongoose had a point there.
> Most Industrilized countrys today have have birth:death rating of about
> 10:8 per 1000 inhabitants.

I don't recall the details, but I was under the impression
that this was mostly due to the less densely populated areas becoming
more populous. This wasn't due to already packed cities becoming even
more packed.

Of course, I think that the situation in New Seattle was
mentioned early in the book. I seem to recall a line from Captain
Chaos saying that they had copied the best bits of an older file in
for quick reference, so the stats you are seeing are from the 2050
census.

Mark




From Graht@**********.worldnet.at
Message no. 20
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:51:55 EDT
In a message dated 6/7/99 6:59:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gurth@******.nl
writes:

> Well, that at least can be explained. Perhaps the existing hospitals have
> enough capacity and coverage, or new wings or floors have been built onto
> them, for example.

Why would they need to do that if the population never changed :-)




From Ereskanti@***.com Mon, 7 Jun
Message no. 21
From: Kenneth Vinson kennethv@****.wisc.edu
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:24:16 -0500
Felix Horbach wrote:

> Hate to be a spoiler but I think mongoose had a point there.
> Most Industrilized countrys today have have birth:death rating of about
> 10:8 per 1000 inhabitants.
> Starting with Seattles population of 3.100.000 that would net 31.000
> birthes and ca. 25.000 deaths each year. To simplify matters jast
> multiply with ten for a net gain of about 62.000 Inhabitants in 10
> years. Well short of the claimed 100.000 that got iced during the
> Renraku "incident".
> Therefore Mongoose hint at stunted immigration *does* matter if Seattle
> were just to break even in terms of population.
> Drop out initiated....
> Watcher spirit

Assuming that the 3,000,000 population mark for Seattle is SIN possessing and doesn't
include the SIN'less then
the casualties in Redmond from the suborbital crash can't have affected the statistics
much. This is, of course,
assuming that the majority of those killed in that distant corner of the Barrens were
SIN'less. A good
assumption, IMHO. I still think the zero pop growth was an oversight on the part of the
FASA staff and to think
that they thought through the whole thing and consciously "decided" that the
population growth was zero is giving
them too much credit. I'm not implying that they're stupid, just that things can and are
missed during the
editing process.

Ken

--
Kenneth H. Vinson
Office 608/263-6733 :: kenneth.vinson@****.wisc.edu
Student Worker/Data Archivist :: UW Space Science & Engineering Center
1018 AOSS Bldg, 1225 W. Dayton St., Madison, WI, 53706 USA






From DCordy@****.com Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09
Message no. 22
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:18:28 +0200
> > Well, that at least can be explained. Perhaps the existing hospitals have
> > enough capacity and coverage, or new wings or floors have been built onto
> > them, for example.
>
> Why would they need to do that if the population never changed :-)

There could be an increase in non-fatal accidents, diseases, and what have
you... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here I am, still intact, and I should give myself credit for that
-- Tilt, "Unravel"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998




From gurth@******.nl Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:30:30 +0200
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:30:30 +0200
From: Gurth gurt
Message no. 23
From: John Velasco decor.consulting@***.servicom.es
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:48:12 +0200
At 11:24 8/06/99 -0500, Kenneth Vinson wrote:

SNIP

>Assuming that the 3,000,000 population mark for Seattle is SIN possessing
and doesn't include the SIN'less then
>the casualties in Redmond from the _suborbital crash_ can't have affected
the statistics much. This is, of course,
>assuming that the majority of those killed in that distant corner of the
Barrens were SIN'less.

Could someone tell me more about the suborbital crash, like when in the
timeline this happen and where I can read more information.

The group I GM has been spending loads of nuyen on their nifty little HQ in
the Barrens and I think they may be in for quite a shock :)

BioNick.


-----------------------

If only you could see what I have seen with your eyes!






From d.n.m.vannederveen@****.warande.ruu.nl Wed, 09 Jun 1999 12:23:02 +0200
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 12:23:
Message no. 24
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:18:01 +0200
> Could someone tell me more about the suborbital crash, like when in the
> timeline this happen and where I can read more information.

This event is described in the sourceventure* Blood in the Boardroom (FASA
#7327), and happens on 11 July 2059. There is some detail on page 25,
mainly about the relation (if any) between it and the corporate war.

* sourcebook/adventure, or whatever you want to call this book :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here I am, still intact, and I should give myself credit for that
-- Tilt, "Unravel"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998




From runnerpaul@*****.com Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:22:49 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:22:49 -0400 (EDT)
Message no. 25
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:20:22 -0700 (PDT)
<Snipples(TM)>
> Could someone tell me more about the suborbital crash, like when in
the timeline this happen and where I can read more information.
>
> The group I GM has been spending loads of nuyen on their nifty little
HQ in the Barrens and I think they may be in for quite a shock :)
> BioNick.

As someone mentioned, the crash is described in "Blood in the
Boardroom". It's also discussed in rather greater detail in the novel
"Headhunters". You really only need the latter, though, if you want to
go digging into the crash itself. If you just want to know how the
crash effects the Barrens, see BitB.

*Doc' looks all dignified and sagely...and gets an Oscar for such a
sterling, out of character performance...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From sparrow@***.net.au Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:18:15 +1000
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:18:15 +1000
From: Aaron
Message no. 26
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:18:15 +1000
Gurth wrote:

> According to Schizi@***.com, at 19:51 on 7 Jun 99, the word on
> the street was...
>
> > > Well, that at least can be explained. Perhaps the existing hospitals have
> > > enough capacity and coverage, or new wings or floors have been built onto
> > > them, for example.
> >
> > Why would they need to do that if the population never changed :-)
>
> There could be an increase in non-fatal accidents, diseases, and what have
> you... :)
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

perhaps another outbreak of a VITAS-like plague occured? some corp upped and left
the sprawl taking most if not all their employees (read: sararimen) with it? Who
knows?

GreyWolf





From sparrow@***.net.au Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:24:01 +1000
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:24:01 +1000
From: Aaron
Message no. 27
From: John Velasco decor.consulting@***.servicom.es
Subject: New Seattle - weird fact ?!
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:37:22 +0200
At 18:20 9/06/99 -0700, Rand Ratinac wrote:

>As someone mentioned, the crash is described in "Blood in the
>Boardroom". It's also discussed in rather greater detail in the novel
>"Headhunters". You really only need the latter, though, if you want to
>go digging into the crash itself. If you just want to know how the
>crash effects the Barrens, see BitB.

Headhunters! I started reading that book this Monday :)

I haven't had much time, but I guess I'm about halfway through & I don't
remember any mention of the crash so far(could be my altzeimer:). Guess I'll
have to do some serious reading tonight.

Thank you both for the help.


BioNick.


-----------------------

If only you could see what I have seen with your eyes!






From gurth@******.nl Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:52:34 +0200
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:52:34 +0200
From: Gurth gur

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about New Seattle - weird fact ?!, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!