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Message no. 1
From: Ron Clark <rclark@****.NET>
Subject: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:49:11 -0600
I was thinking of ways to get around drones and had an idea, though the
wonderful world of James Bond sparked the idea. I don't know if there is a
spell like this already or not and I'm wondering if it's worth considering.

Today, a magnetic pulse will kill many modern technologies. The police are
using it to stop cars and it can be used for other things. Also technology
is hampered by a nuclear blast emitting the pulse, thus the fact that in
the event of a nuclear outbreak computers and such will not function. So,
what I was considering was a magnetic pulse spell designed specifically to
stop vehicles, drones, and what not. The question I have now is are
Shadowrun technologies effected by this? Would such a spell/effect hamper
cybernetics, and if it does, to what effect?

If this spell exists let me know, or if anyone has thier own ideas on this,
let me know also. Also, I would like some ideas of the effects.


Thanks

Ron
#include disclamer.h
Message no. 2
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:21:04 +1100
At 05:49 PM 12/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I was thinking of ways to get around drones and had an idea, though the
>wonderful world of James Bond sparked the idea. I don't know if there is a
>spell like this already or not and I'm wondering if it's worth considering.
>
>Today, a magnetic pulse will kill many modern technologies. The police are
>using it to stop cars and it can be used for other things. Also technology
>is hampered by a nuclear blast emitting the pulse, thus the fact that in
>the event of a nuclear outbreak computers and such will not function. So,
>what I was considering was a magnetic pulse spell designed specifically to
>stop vehicles, drones, and what not. The question I have now is are
>Shadowrun technologies effected by this? Would such a spell/effect hamper
>cybernetics, and if it does, to what effect?
>
>If this spell exists let me know, or if anyone has thier own ideas on this,
>let me know also. Also, I would like some ideas of the effects.

Well, I figure you can just modify the effects of the Loral-Vought "Zapper"
Static Discharge Rockets found on page 94 of Rigger 2, basing the Damage on
the Spell's Force and chosen Damage Level. However, those rules might be a
bit too damaging for some tastes. Anyway...
Message no. 3
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:50:49 +1000
> I was thinking of ways to get around drones and had an idea, though
> the wonderful world of James Bond sparked the idea. I don't know if
> there is a spell like this already or not and I'm wondering if it's
> worth considering.
>
> Today, a magnetic pulse will kill many modern technologies. The
> police are using it to stop cars and it can be used for other things.
> Also technology is hampered by a nuclear blast emitting the pulse,
> thus the fact that in the event of a nuclear outbreak computers and
> such will not function. So, what I was considering was a magnetic
> pulse spell designed specifically to stop vehicles, drones, and what
> not. The question I have now is are Shadowrun technologies effected
> by this? Would such a spell/effect hamper cybernetics, and if it
> does, to what effect?
>
> If this spell exists let me know, or if anyone has thier own ideas on
> this, let me know also. Also, I would like some ideas of the effects.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Ron
> #include disclamer.h
>
If you want to see the effects of a high force EMP spell (Force 9 or
higher, probably) check out the Wolf and Raven story featured in 'Into
the Shadows'. At least, I THINK it was an EMP. Then again, on the other
hand, maybe it was a pure 'Anti-Technology' spell or something.

At any rate, imagine a nuclear blast. That effects any and everything
electrical - including cyber. Ever see the blast scene in Broken Arrow,
where the helicopter just falls out of the sky? That's the kind of thing
you'd have. Electronics shorting out, cyber maybe even exploding. IMHO,
of course. I'm no nuclear physicist.

*Doc' is REALLY glad he's a magicker now.*

Doc' Fangjob

.sig Sauer
Message no. 4
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:11:34 -0500
At 05:49 PM 12/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Today, a magnetic pulse will kill many modern technologies. The police are
>using it to stop cars and it can be used for other things. Also technology
>is hampered by a nuclear blast emitting the pulse, thus the fact that in
>the event of a nuclear outbreak computers and such will not function. So,
>what I was considering was a magnetic pulse spell designed specifically to
>stop vehicles, drones, and what not. The question I have now is are
>Shadowrun technologies effected by this? Would such a spell/effect hamper
>cybernetics, and if it does, to what effect?

Most systems in SR are described as being optical as opposed to electronic,
and would be wholly unaffected by EM pulse. Still, there are some
electronics out there. The induction link in a smartlink, for instance,
would be susceptible, as would cybereyes probably. There's other stuff,
but you basically have to make the call. As a rule of thumb, processors or
microchip-type stuff won't be affected, control and communication items
probably yes.

>If this spell exists let me know, or if anyone has thier own ideas on this,
>let me know also. Also, I would like some ideas of the effects.

It'd probably be a Damaging Manipulation spell, limited effect.

>Thanks
>
>Ron


Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to
Marietta, GA | hope for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 5
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:30:25 EST
In a message dated 12/17/1998 6:48:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
rclark@****.NET writes:

<snipped the spell questions and concepts>

> If this spell exists let me know, or if anyone has thier own ideas on this,
> let me know also. Also, I would like some ideas of the effects.

Formally, no, it does not exist within any of the books that I can recall
readily. I do know however that the spell concept exists in many games,
including our own. Using the SR3 spell thing, we are guessing a drain code
equal to that of Lightning Bolt (as it stands in the books), but just limit it
to Vehicles (if such is possible), and make it "detrimental" or "vehicular
stun". It does kind of suck that Manipulation Magic isn't really
"selectable"
or "restrictable" enough as we know so far not to be able to do this. But we
here believe it can be done, especially if you, as the player/GM, are looking
for an "EMP Wave" type of an effect.

Now as to how it might effect cyberware, that is a good question. I
personally say allow the PC to which is attached roll his/her Body attribute
as a resistance test, with no armor allowed. Damage isn't really done
directly to the body, just to the 'wares.

Perhaps a "feedback" is generated into the character however, similar to a
Rigger or Decker suffering from Simsense Overload/Dump Shock. I would suggest
using the rules for the zapper rockets in R2 for this one.

In any case, have fun...

-K (boy, does this spell remind me of the "Induce Stress" spell we made up ...
torqed every rigger we ran up against with that one)
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:08:37 +0100
According to Starjammer, at 22:11 on 17 Dec 98, the word on
the street was...

> Most systems in SR are described as being optical as opposed to electronic,
> and would be wholly unaffected by EM pulse.

Please tell me, where do you get the light from that operates these
optical systems? Put a lens on a fibre-optic cable and hold it out the
window? (That must mean that computers are only on during the day, and
only work properly when it's sunny... not an ideal situation, IMHO... :)

I'd say compuers will be affected, but memory will remain intact
(according to Shadowtech, it maintains its state unless light is applied
to it). OTOH it's possible that a magnetic pulse would "turn on the
lights" for an instant, erasing all or part of a computer's memory.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What do you mean, "let it"? How can you stop it?
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: Bryan Covington <bryan.covington@****.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:56:41 -0500
<snip EM pulse spell>

> If you want to see the effects of a high force EMP spell (Force 9 or
> higher, probably) check out the Wolf and Raven story featured in 'Into
> the Shadows'. At least, I THINK it was an EMP. Then again, on the other
> hand, maybe it was a pure 'Anti-Technology' spell or something.
>
> At any rate, imagine a nuclear blast. That effects any and everything
> electrical - including cyber. Ever see the blast scene in Broken Arrow,
> where the helicopter just falls out of the sky? That's the kind of thing
> you'd have. Electronics shorting out, cyber maybe even exploding. IMHO,
> of course. I'm no nuclear physicist.
>
Um, no. That was a horribly bogus thing. 90% of the stuff on
20th century choppers is mechanical. Military choppers have a bit more but
even there the powertrain is all mechanical. Hitting one with an EM pulse
will kill the electronics and probably force it to land maybe even
autorotate (basically put the clutch in on the rotor blades and let them
spin to let the chopper come down easy rather than crash). It will fry most
modern cars (my '58 pickup is immune) but even then they will still keep
moving (although power steering is tough to fight when it isn't working).
We aren't as dependent on electronics as some people
believe. Most things have them but it's usually to make things easier on us,
not to make things work. This may be different in 2060 but most big things
will work ok.

The other nifty thing about EM pulses that no one has
mentioned is the effect on the human body. We are electrochemical machines.
I know there is research into EM weapons for non lethal use. Short out the
nervous system and the person just stand there stunned. Or, turn up the
juice and fry the autonomic nervous system and kill them.
Message no. 8
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:38:24 -0800
> Today, a magnetic pulse will kill many modern technologies. The police are
> using it to stop cars and it can be used for other things. Also technology
> is hampered by a nuclear blast emitting the pulse, thus the fact that in
> the event of a nuclear outbreak computers and such will not function. So,
> what I was considering was a magnetic pulse spell designed specifically to
> stop vehicles, drones, and what not. The question I have now is are
> Shadowrun technologies effected by this? Would such a spell/effect hamper
> cybernetics, and if it does, to what effect?
>
Actually, I think I remember reading somewhere that an EMP had something to do with the
crash of the Internet or something like that, which gave way to the birth of the
Matrix...and I "thought" or it could be my imagination...but the Trix, was
specifically built with that in mind, so it would never happen again...stands to reason
that other technology would be the same way....although, if I'm wrong...that brings to
bear a whole bunch of cool idea's....my poooooor runners, muhahahaha. <eg>

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 9
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:25:03 -0500
<SNIP>
This brings to mind something interesting I read.
Turns out Intel & DOD have been working on a new type of
microchip that is particulary shielded against EMP, since that is
a worry of the intelligence agency's lately. Supposedly they
have made progress. This was in a new article (CNN perhaps) in
the last week or two. Sorry I don't have the URL handy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
Message no. 10
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:48:34 -0500
At 11:08 AM 12/18/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>According to Starjammer, at 22:11 on 17 Dec 98, the word on
>the street was...
>
>> Most systems in SR are described as being optical as opposed to electronic,
>> and would be wholly unaffected by EM pulse.
>
>Please tell me, where do you get the light from that operates these
>optical systems? Put a lens on a fibre-optic cable and hold it out the
>window? (That must mean that computers are only on during the day, and
>only work properly when it's sunny... not an ideal situation, IMHO... :)
>
>I'd say compuers will be affected, but memory will remain intact
>(according to Shadowtech, it maintains its state unless light is applied
>to it). OTOH it's possible that a magnetic pulse would "turn on the
>lights" for an instant, erasing all or part of a computer's memory.

First, bear in mind that EMP only scrambles semiconductor-based
electronics, and we're moving away from those. And I don't think that's
how a cyberimplant would work, anyway. Rather, I suspect that at the
neural interface the firing of a neuron would excite a receptor in the
cybertech, which would then fire a photon down the optical pipe of the
chip. Output would reverse the process. There might be no extraneous
electronics whatsoever, just an optical chip wired directly into and
powered by the brain's own neural activity.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I wonder just how much
semiconductor-based electronics will be around in 60 years. For standard
consumer electronics like radios and (whatever)-players, yeah, but for
high-end stuff like cyber and decks? Hmm. Have to think hard on that one.

Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to
Marietta, GA | hope for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 11
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:43:05 EST
In a message dated 12/18/1998 9:58:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
bryan.covington@****.COM writes:

> Um, no. That was a horribly bogus thing. 90% of the stuff on
> 20th century choppers is mechanical. Military choppers have a bit more but
> even there the powertrain is all mechanical. Hitting one with an EM pulse
> will kill the electronics and probably force it to land maybe even
> autorotate (basically put the clutch in on the rotor blades and let them
> spin to let the chopper come down easy rather than crash). It will fry most
> modern cars (my '58 pickup is immune) but even then they will still keep
> moving (although power steering is tough to fight when it isn't working).
> We aren't as dependent on electronics as some people
> believe. Most things have them but it's usually to make things easier on
us,
> not to make things work. This may be different in 2060 but most big things
> will work ok.

I won't argue the fact that the majority of the operations for any vehicle are
mechanical and not "electronic" per say. However, there is ONE part of every
(combustion) vehicle I can immediately think of that is. The ignition and/or
spark plug timing system. Either one of those are immediately influencable by
EMP, IF they are not shielded properly.

Additionally, more and more cars (vehicles in general) are gaining or aquiring
electronic devices that have direct say over that vehicles operational
status/controls. I would *really* hate to see what EMP would do to a vehicle
with "Northstar" system. (shivers)

Additionally, the thing in the movie Broken Arrow which kind of confused me
was the thing about "turn everything off". Then I remembered something (and
hopefully Adam or one of the others can clarify this better than I can) is
that charged or electrically active items collect static (charged particles
such as those released during an "EMP" related phenomena). No, there is no
effect like when a lightning bolt strikes an ungrounded object. But, there is
static discharge/exchange that occurs between those charged objects. I keep
thinking that this must be due to the fact that the resistance or capacitance
of a given electronic device or object is being overcome in general, causing
too much of a "ionic exchange" to occur in an uncontrolled manner.

Think of it this way, it may help, it may not. Let's say your motherboard for
your computer is getting hit by EMP and it's turned on ATM. Normally, the
relays/channels that the CPU uses to speak with the Video Card are through the
board itself, along given, programmed, pathways and connections. What the emp
does is saturate the particles in such a way that they allow for a direct
exchange of ionic energies between the two targets across a new, uncontrolled
medium (in this case, let's say the air, its' a poor example, but it works).
When this happens, too much power or information leaps, and that
power/information is not in a form that is conducive to general operation
(aka; FRY!).

Additionally, this ionic saturation allows for other "circuits" to be created
in general. Normally, we use electricity to communicate between our
electronic items through a series of on/off switches or gates built into the
item(s) themselves. Let's say your mother board is supplying juice to the
CPU, and to the Video Card, but the Video Card and the CPU are NOT directly
supplying power between each other (a closed / unoperatable pathway/circuit).
When the ionic saturation reaches a certain point, it allows for an electrical
pathway to be created where there was none before, thus completing the circuit
and allowing for the electricity to flow freely (and detrimentally) between
them.

Gosh, I hope I didn't confuse everyone...

-K
Message no. 12
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:44:20 EST
In a message dated 12/18/1998 9:25:18 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> > Most systems in SR are described as being optical as opposed to
electronic,
>
> > and would be wholly unaffected by EM pulse.
>
> Please tell me, where do you get the light from that operates these
> optical systems? Put a lens on a fibre-optic cable and hold it out the
> window? (That must mean that computers are only on during the day, and
> only work properly when it's sunny... not an ideal situation, IMHO... :)
>
> I'd say compuers will be affected, but memory will remain intact
> (according to Shadowtech, it maintains its state unless light is applied
> to it). OTOH it's possible that a magnetic pulse would "turn on the
> lights" for an instant, erasing all or part of a computer's memory.

I know I'm not supposed to make short replies like this but...

VERY GOOD GURTH!!!

-K
Message no. 13
From: Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:53:38 -0500
On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, K in the Shadows wrote:

(Large SNIP)

>
> Additionally, this ionic saturation allows for other "circuits" to be
created
> in general. Normally, we use electricity to communicate between our
> electronic items through a series of on/off switches or gates built into the
> item(s) themselves. Let's say your mother board is supplying juice to the
> CPU, and to the Video Card, but the Video Card and the CPU are NOT directly
> supplying power between each other (a closed / unoperatable pathway/circuit).
> When the ionic saturation reaches a certain point, it allows for an electrical
> pathway to be created where there was none before, thus completing the circuit
> and allowing for the electricity to flow freely (and detrimentally) between
> them.
>
> Gosh, I hope I didn't confuse everyone...
>

I don't know about everyone, but you completely lost me. :)

- Kama
Message no. 14
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:21:01 EST
In a message dated 12/18/1998 12:54:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
kama@*******.NET writes:

>
> I don't know about everyone, but you completely lost me. :)
>
> - Kama

Sorry, I'm having trouble putting these terms into something "common" in terms
of language.

Okay, how's this.

You have a light switch for your kitchen light. When the switch is "off", the
circuit is closed because the current is not allowed to flow completely
through.

With the EMP, the electrical saturation creates the "on" effect, allowing the
circuit to be completed and the power to flow through the path available.

But, because this circuit is not a regulated one (such as the normal switch
would be), the power flows in a damaging/detrimental manner. Thus causing all
of those neato effects that the media overexagerates for the sake of dramatic
recourse (tv's blowing out, helicopters crashing out of the sky, etc...).

-K (that better?)
Message no. 15
From: Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:33:26 -0500
On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, K in the Shadows wrote:

> In a message dated 12/18/1998 12:54:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> kama@*******.NET writes:
>
> >
> > I don't know about everyone, but you completely lost me. :)
> >
> > - Kama
>
> Sorry, I'm having trouble putting these terms into something "common" in
terms
> of language.
>
> Okay, how's this.
>
> You have a light switch for your kitchen light. When the switch is "off",
the
> circuit is closed because the current is not allowed to flow completely
> through.
>
> With the EMP, the electrical saturation creates the "on" effect, allowing
the
> circuit to be completed and the power to flow through the path available.
>
> But, because this circuit is not a regulated one (such as the normal switch
> would be), the power flows in a damaging/detrimental manner. Thus causing all
> of those neato effects that the media overexagerates for the sake of dramatic
> recourse (tv's blowing out, helicopters crashing out of the sky, etc...).
>
> -K (that better?)
>
Definately better. Of course, it does leave me wondering how Doesn't the
current need a path? Of do all the extra little electrons floating around
due to the magnetic pulse "hold hands" to complete the circuit (acting
like a wire) and short out the whole thing?

On second thought. Maybe you should leave it a mystery. AFter all, I'm
sure that question is going to be impossible to answer in a simplistic way
and we are getting quite OT.

To bring this back on topic. Does it really matter how it should work
scientifically? AFter all, magic (IMHO) is the manipulation of reality by
a mage or Ahaman based on his perception of the world. So if the mage
believed that his electro magnetic pulse spell could make TVs blow up
(even if science woudl disagree), couldn't they blow up if he rolled high
enough?

"Kama starts believeing she's Doc and capable of ending her messages with
smart assed comments - therefore it works!"

- Kama
Message no. 16
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:51:34 -0600
:I won't argue the fact that the majority of the operations for any
vehicle are
:mechanical and not "electronic" per say. However, there is ONE part of
every
:(combustion) vehicle I can immediately think of that is. The ignition
and/or
:spark plug timing system. Either one of those are immediately
influencable by
:EMP, IF they are not shielded properly.

Deisel engines don't have spark plugs (or any form of ignition system,
aside from "glow" plugs to aid starting). They do tend to have fuel
injection, but that can be purley mechnical. Turbine engines don't always
need igntion sytems, either, afaik.

Mongoose
Message no. 17
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:40:30 EST
In a message dated 12/18/1998 1:38:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*********.COM writes:

>
> Deisel engines don't have spark plugs (or any form of ignition system,
> aside from "glow" plugs to aid starting). They do tend to have fuel
> injection, but that can be purley mechnical. Turbine engines don't always
> need igntion sytems, either, afaik.
>
Ah, but they do need something to ignite the actual fuel. And then, depending
on the intensity of the EMP, just random "groundings" (ew...what a mysterious
word that is ;) would be bad enough.

-K
Message no. 18
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:18:21 -0600
:> Deisel engines don't have spark plugs (or any form of ignition
system,
:> aside from "glow" plugs to aid starting). They do tend to have fuel
:> injection, but that can be purley mechnical. Turbine engines don't
always
:> need igntion sytems, either, afaik.
:>
:Ah, but they do need something to ignite the actual fuel. And then,
depending
:on the intensity of the EMP, just random "groundings" (ew...what a
mysterious
:word that is ;) would be bad enough.


In a deisel engine, the (mechanical) compression of the air-fuel mixture
heats it (as would compressing any gas)- that ignites the fuel. The same
can be done in a turbine (and generally is, afaik).

Mongoose
Message no. 19
From: Ron Clark <rclark@****.NET>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:20:36 -0600
>Okay, how's this.
>
>You have a light switch for your kitchen light. When the switch is "off",
the
>circuit is closed because the current is not allowed to flow completely
>through.
>
>With the EMP, the electrical saturation creates the "on" effect, allowing
the
>circuit to be completed and the power to flow through the path available.
>
>But, because this circuit is not a regulated one (such as the normal switch
>would be), the power flows in a damaging/detrimental manner. Thus causing
all
>of those neato effects that the media overexagerates for the sake of dramatic
>recourse (tv's blowing out, helicopters crashing out of the sky, etc...).
>
>-K (that better?)

So, if I'm following, a Drone would become defunct unless there is
shielding. If the Drone was "turned off" it would suddenly turn on again
and possibly/probabaly overload and "burn out". If the drone was turned
on, it would just overload and burn out (power spike). Cybernetics???
what, is the arm going to go crazy and beat up the owner or is it just
going to short out? (assuming that and EMP would effect cybernetics.) I'm
not sure how cybernetics function in shadowrun. Does the cybernetic part
get power from the human, or does it have it's own powersupply. And as
someone mentioned, what effect would an EMP have on a person?

I'm sorry if I'm a lesser on tech stuff, physics was never my strongpoint,
but I really want to get this hammered out before I even consider such a
spell in my world.


Ron
#include disclamer.h
Message no. 20
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:08:24 -0600
On Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:38:24 -0800 "Davidson, Chris"
<Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM> writes:
<SNIP>
>Actually, I think I remember reading somewhere that an EMP had
>something to do with the crash of the Internet or something like that,
>which gave way to the birth of the Matrix...and I "thought" or it
>could be my imagination...but the Trix, was specifically built with
>that in mind, so it would never happen again...stands to reason that
>other technology would be the same way....although, if I'm
>wrong...that brings to bear a whole bunch of cool idea's....my
>poooooor runners, muhahahaha. <eg>

I don't think so ... It was virus that cause The Crash ... There may have
been another, separate, earlier crash that heralded the death of the
internet and the rise of the matrix, but I don't think so. Echo Mirage,
remember, was a project to seek out and combat that virus. :)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 21
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:42:41 -0800
> chip. Output would reverse the process. There might be no extraneous
> electronics whatsoever, just an optical chip wired directly into and
> powered by the brain's own neural activity.
>
Actually, the more I think about it...has there ever been a case (aside from the movies)
where an actual human has been inside the blast radius of an EMP? Who's to say that it
wouldn't disrupt the neurons firing...I mean what is our whole centeral nevous system, but
a big bunch of electric conductors....

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 22
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:55:52 -0800
> "Kama starts believeing she's Doc and capable of ending her messages with
> smart assed comments - therefore it works!"
>
The very definition of a mage or shaman....

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 23
From: Bryan Covington <bryan.covington@****.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:07:56 -0500
> :> Deisel engines don't have spark plugs (or any form of ignition
> system,
> :> aside from "glow" plugs to aid starting). They do tend to have fuel
> :> injection, but that can be purley mechnical. Turbine engines don't
> always
> :> need igntion sytems, either, afaik.
> :>
> :Ah, but they do need something to ignite the actual fuel. And then,
> depending
> :on the intensity of the EMP, just random "groundings" (ew...what a
> mysterious
> :word that is ;) would be bad enough.
>
>
> In a deisel engine, the (mechanical) compression of the air-fuel mixture
> heats it (as would compressing any gas)- that ignites the fuel. The same
> can be done in a turbine (and generally is, afaik).
>

Completely true. No plugs. All mechanical. There is a
ignition system in that there is a starter to get the motor going, but you
can remove the starter once the vehicle is running with no loss of any kind.
On a diesel you can even remove the alternator since it doesn't need a spark
to light the fuel. An EMP isn't going to bother a diesel much. The
headlights, taillights, radio and so on would be fried but the mechanics of
it will work.
Along these same lines if there are no ELECTRONICS, as
opposed to electrical systems, the EMP will not be effective. Even with a
spark plug system the wires are big enough to work fine through an EMP. It's
only in the small circuitry of IC chips and circuit boards that you have EMP
problems. Since all the plug wires do is provide power and not information
more power just makes the plugs fire brighter. No big deal.
Message no. 24
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:26:18 -0800
> I don't think so ... It was virus that cause The Crash ... There may have
> been another, separate, earlier crash that heralded the death of the
> internet and the rise of the matrix, but I don't think so. Echo Mirage,
> remember, was a project to seek out and combat that virus. :)
>
Doh! It's all becoming clear...I think that was in some other sci-fi novel that I must
have read or something...sorry. It's a good idea though. :)

-Toffer
Message no. 25
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:48:56 -0500
At 11:42 AM 12/18/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>Actually, the more I think about it...has there ever been a case (aside
from the movies) where an actual human has been inside the blast radius of
an EMP? Who's to say that it wouldn't disrupt the neurons firing...I mean
what is our whole centeral nevous system, but a big bunch of electric
conductors....
>
>-=Toffer=-

Well, the US Army exposed a lot of soldiers at close range to early atomic
and nuclear blasts, and apart from radiation poisoning and dropping dead of
cancer years later, there were no adverse side effects. Some consolation, eh?

Trust me on this one. EMP will not affect your nervous system in that
manner. Specifically, your nerves aren't really conductors; they're
electro-chemical triggers lined up one after the other. They can't
transduce the EM energy in the pulse into current the way a conductor does.
Not the right kind of atoms.

Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to
Marietta, GA | hope for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 26
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:50:40 -0800
> Well, the US Army exposed a lot of soldiers at close range to early atomic
> and nuclear blasts, and apart from radiation poisoning and dropping dead of
> cancer years later, there were no adverse side effects. Some consolation, eh?
>
No the best tradeoff in the world...no.

> Trust me on this one. EMP will not affect your nervous system in that
> manner. Specifically, your nerves aren't really conductors; they're
> electro-chemical triggers lined up one after the other. They can't
> transduce the EM energy in the pulse into current the way a conductor does.
> Not the right kind of atoms.
>
Okay. :)

-Toffer
Message no. 27
From: Martin Harber <martin@******.FORCE9.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:40:19 +0000
<HTML>
&nbsp;

<P><I>Ron Clark wrote:</I>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I>>Okay, how's this.</I>
<BR><I>></I>
<BR><I>>You have a light switch for your kitchen light.&nbsp; When the
switch is "off",</I>
<BR><I>the</I>
<BR><I>>circuit is closed because the current is not allowed to flow
completely</I>
<BR><I>>through.</I>
<BR><I>></I>
<BR><I>>With the EMP, the electrical saturation creates the "on"
effect,
allowing the</I>
<BR><I>>circuit to be completed and the power to flow through the path
available.</I>
<BR>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
If you irradiated the circuit with enough radiation wouldn't that have
the same effect?
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I>snip</I></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I>Cybernetics???</I></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I></I>

<P><I>what, is the arm going to go crazy</I></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which leads me to think of a spell which affects cybernetics only. I'd
just love to use it on a line of detached cyberarms.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I>and beat up the owner or is it just</I>
<BR><I>going to short out?&nbsp; (assuming that and EMP would effect
cybernetics.)</I></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I>&nbsp;I'm not sure how cybernetics function in
shadowrun.&nbsp; Does the cybernetic part</I>
<BR><I>get power from the human, or does it have it's own
powersupply.&nbsp;
And as</I>
<BR><I>someone mentioned, what effect would an EMP have on a
person?</I><I></I>

<P><I>I'm sorry if I'm a lesser on tech stuff, physics was never my
strongpoint,</I>
<BR><I>but I really want to get this hammered out before I even consider
such a</I>
<BR><I>spell in my world.</I><I></I>

<P><I>Ron</I>
<BR><I>#include disclamer.h</I></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is my first post so,
<BR>Hi

<P>Calyx

<P>*Yes, I know it's part of a plant.*</HTML>
Message no. 28
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:50:16 -0800
> Which leads me to think of a spell which affects cybernetics only. I'd just love to
use it on a line of detached cyberarms.
>
Not a bad idea. ;)
> This is my first post so,
> Hi
>
Welcome aboard.

-Toffer
Message no. 29
From: Jack Skater <bjames@***.NET>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:12:38 -0600
Why not just have a spell that inhibits all non-natural electron
transfer? That would be very devasting to any chemical reaction.
Not even guns would work.
Message no. 30
From: Jack Skater <bjames@***.NET>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:12:38 -0600
How about a spell that inhibits all non-natural electron transferral?
That would do some damage don't you think?
Message no. 31
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 01:53:46 EST
In a message dated 12/18/1998 2:19:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
rclark@****.NET writes:

> So, if I'm following, a Drone would become defunct unless there is
> shielding.

In theory, yes, that's correct.

>If the Drone was "turned off" it would suddenly turn on again
> and possibly/probabaly overload and "burn out". If the drone was turned
> on, it would just overload and burn out (power spike).

I am NOT certain about having the drone turned off or not and then it suddenly
"turning back on". The one time having Adam G. reply being *extremely* nice,
and he's probably away on vacation.

>Cybernetics???
> what, is the arm going to go crazy and beat up the owner or is it just
> going to short out? (assuming that and EMP would effect cybernetics.)

Now this, for some reason, paints some really neat pictures in my mind. I've
heard of beating yourself to death, but this could potentially really do it.

I'm
> not sure how cybernetics function in shadowrun. Does the cybernetic part
> get power from the human, or does it have it's own powersupply. And as
> someone mentioned, what effect would an EMP have on a person?

EMP on a person, at most, IIRC, would stun them (kind of like a tazer), but
that is some serious EMP, or so I have been informed. As for the power supply
for cybernetics in SR, *THAT* little topic is currently under direct
contention.

> I'm sorry if I'm a lesser on tech stuff, physics was never my strongpoint,
> but I really want to get this hammered out before I even consider such a
> spell in my world.

Hey, to the fact you are going into this kind of detail says that you are
gutsy enough to risk it though. That in and unto itself speaks volumes.

However, as someone else has mentioned, this *might* be one of those times
when "it just works this way" would probably be the best thing. In fact, if
you were to restrict the spell to "only working against non-living machinery",
then by that argument, Cybernetics do NOT qualify, as the individual has
"spent the essence" for the wares that are implanted in them.

-K
Message no. 32
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 02:06:27 EST
In a message dated 12/18/1998 9:02:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
bjames@***.NET writes:

>
> Why not just have a spell that inhibits all non-natural electron
> transfer? That would be very devasting to any chemical reaction.
> Not even guns would work.
>
Yeah, and for that matter, neither would any living being...

-K
Message no. 33
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:58:22 -0600
How about a spell that inhibits all non-natural electron transferral?
That would do some damage don't you think?

++++++

As far as magic is concerned, implanted cyberware IS natural. Its part of
a living body, paid for with essence. Transformation spells, for example,
affect it as if it were flesh.

A "glitch" type spell might work VS implant electronics, but so would a
normal damaging spell. The "glitch" would likely have lower drain,
though, as it is limited in target.

Mongoose
Message no. 34
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:42:48 -0600
Someone wrote:
>How about a spell that inhibits all non-natural electron transferral?
>That would do some damage don't you think?
>++++++

On Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:58:22 -0600 Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
writes:
>As far as magic is concerned, implanted cyberware IS natural. Its part
of
>a living body, paid for with essence. Transformation spells, for
example,
>affect it as if it were flesh.
>
>A "glitch" type spell might work VS implant electronics, but so would a
>normal damaging spell. The "glitch" would likely have lower drain,
>though, as it is limited in target.

Then, how do you explain that Petrification does NOT affect cybernetics?

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Message no. 35
From: Ron Clark <rclark@****.NET>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:26:09 -0600
>
>Then, how do you explain that Petrification does NOT affect cybernetics?
>
>--
>D. Ghost


Also SR2 Shapechange didn't effect cybernetics...

Ron
#include disclamer.h
Message no. 36
From: Adam Hargrave <Technofiend@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 00:09:29 -0500
My two cents :

As far as my gaming group was concerned..cyberware used a gel-like material
to allow neuro-eletric impulses to travel. A mage in my group game up with
a spell formula to de-ionize the get..rendering the cyberware useless. And
as for the EMP Pulse...ask the russinas about what electronics are
fried...thier Migs are equipped with tube radios in case of an emergency.
They will still work after a pulse.


>
>A "glitch" type spell might work VS implant electronics, but so would a
>normal damaging spell. The "glitch" would likely have lower drain,
>though, as it is limited in target.
>
>Mongoose
Message no. 37
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:45:35 +1000
<BigSnip (TM)>

> "Kama starts believeing she's Doc and capable of ending her messages
> with smart assed comments - therefore it works!"
>
Not quite. You see, without the asterisks, the quotation marks just make
it look cornball and thus your effort fails.

*See what I mean? My point exactly.*

Doc'

.sig Sauer
Message no. 38
From: "O'Mordha, Michael" <michael.omordha@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:23:34 -0800
Several of the issues mentioned have been covered in other sources.

One of the avian critters in PAoNA has an EMP ability, and it mentions
several of them workinging in concert to drop another avian. (Don't have
the book handy to provide a page reference.) That could provide a starting
point for an EMP spell. This raises another issue, what would the impact be
to objects subjected to repeated EMPs or simultaneous from different points
of origination, and thus impacting a specific ion, electron, or whatver, at
a different point in the cycle?

The mage in Mr. Hargrave's group has probably also read "Into the Shadows",
since the spell he designed is almost verbatim from the novel. The caster
told Wolf that the spell specifically targetted the cybernetic interface
'gel'. In the novel, it effectively blinded one ganger without killing him,
since his eyes were cyber.

o'mordha
Message no. 39
From: Martin Harber <martin@******.FORCE9.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:49:31 +0000
Adam Hargrave wrote:

> My two cents :
>
> As far as my gaming group was concerned..cyberware used a gel-like material
> to allow neuro-eletric impulses to travel. A mage in my group game up with
> a spell formula to de-ionize the get..rendering the cyberware useless. And
> as for the EMP Pulse

What is an EM Pulse Pulse?

> ...ask the russinas about what electronics are
> fried...thier Migs are equipped with tube radios in case of an emergency.
> They will still work after a pulse.

What about microwaves? They can fry circuits just as easily.

Calyx
Message no. 40
From: Ron Clark <rclark@****.NET>
Subject: Re: New spell, magnetic pulse
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:27:54 -0600
>
>What about microwaves? They can fry circuits just as easily.
>
>Calyx
>


True, but I'm wondering about the effect on items and people. People can
be iffy as to whether it effects them or not, but how would you handle
drones or cyberwhere. If the mage makes his target number does it effect
automatically, would there be a resistance roll, would it depend on the
size of the object or of what it is made of? I don't think a spell should
be allowed that always effects someone/something else without a resistance.
Just think if an adventure evolves around something mechanical and a EMP
or microwave or anything else just kills it. I don't think it would be
just a body since the right shielding would protect the tech stuff. I'm
wondering if it wouldn't be easier/better to say that all of the stuff is
shielded from an EMP, ect. because realistically (if the mage would make
the appropriate target number) anything tech related could be crunched.

Ron
#include disclamer.h

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