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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
Subject: Re: New Totem / Shaman
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:30:17 +0100 (MET)
Mike wrote:
> >I hate to break it to you, but I think that *is* the correct plural for
> >shaman.
> No, see, your thinking eurocentrically again, and shaman is a Native
> american word, not derived from an european language.
It is? So tell me, where does the German word "Schamane" come from?
>
> 1 shaman, 2 shamans
I agree with you on this, but the "native American" I do not buy.
At least hint me to the language it derives from...

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 2
From: neon@******.backbone.olemiss.edu (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: New Totem / Shaman
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:20:08 -0600
>It is? So tell me, where does the German word "Schamane" come from?
>>
>> 1 shaman, 2 shamans
>I agree with you on this, but the "native American" I do not buy.
>At least hint me to the language it derives from...
Do I _look_ like an anthropologist? :) I have no idea Sascha, but if you
would think logically, you'll remember that the land bridge was sometime
after the last ice age, and that would basically be the last time that
european and now native american languages would mix. Can you tell me where
you'll find anything similiar to "Hoka hey" in a european language?

"With over 180 parent languages, each with their own set of dialects, it's
amazing we can communicate at all." - I don't remember who said it


Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"You only need two things in this world. WD40 to make things go, and
duct tape to make them stop."
Message no. 3
From: Sgt Pepper <GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Totem / Shaman
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 22:53:18 EST
On Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:20:08 -0600 Mike Broadwater said:
>>It is? So tell me, where does the German word "Schamane" come from?
>>>
>>> 1 shaman, 2 shamans
>>I agree with you on this, but the "native American" I do not buy.
>>At least hint me to the language it derives from...
>Do I _look_ like an anthropologist? :) I have no idea Sascha, but if you
>would think logically, you'll remember that the land bridge was sometime
>after the last ice age, and that would basically be the last time that
>european and now native american languages would mix. Can you tell me where
>you'll find anything similiar to "Hoka hey" in a european language?
>
I had doubts myself about "shaman" being a native american word, so i checked
the etymology (the study of word origins, one who studies is an etymologist,
not an anthropologist) of shaman in my handy Websters Dictionary, here we go:

SHAMAN [Russian < Tungusic _saman_ < Prakrit _samana_, Buddhist monk <
Sanskrit _sramana, orig. ascetic, akin to sram, to fatique] a priest
or medicine man of shamanism
SHAMANISM 1. the religion of certain peoples of NE Asia, based on a belief
in good and evil spirits who can be influenced only by the shamans
2. any similar religion, as of some American Indians and Eskimos.

Now remembering that the first european vistors thought they were in the
(East) Indies (thus the natives were called Indians) it makes sense that the
word would be applied to them as well. It also indicates that the plural is
in fact shamans.

Sgt Pepper


Come to Elfman's World, http://www.ecu.edu/~grbennet/elfman.html

GeekCodev3.0

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Message no. 4
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: New Totem / Shaman
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:01:58 GMT + 2:00
@ >It is? So tell me, where does the German word "Schamane" come from?
@ >>
@ >> 1 shaman, 2 shamans
@ >I agree with you on this, but the "native American" I do not buy.
@ >At least hint me to the language it derives from...
@ Do I _look_ like an anthropologist? :) I have no idea Sascha, but if you
@ would think logically, you'll remember that the land bridge was sometime
@ after the last ice age, and that would basically be the last time that
@ european and now native american languages would mix. Can you tell me where
@ you'll find anything similiar to "Hoka hey" in a european language?

What's wrong with anthropologists <exclaimation>, sorry
<grin> just defending one of the options of my future profession (ie
I am currently studing said subject). Ok, lets tackel the topic of
shamans. I concur that Shamans is the plural but I have been using
the term shamen to refer to all shaman in general, up till yesterday
no-one moaned. The idea of the shaman being native american in origin
or exclusive etc is hogwash. Currently there are shamen in countries
from China (yes they have them), through Tiwan (have approx. 800),
through to Africa etc. A shaman in the SR sence of the term is an
individual who communicates and follows a totem (this is the north
american definition of the shaman). This idea is not universal, for
example taking the Tiwanisian(Sp) shamen,l they don't follow any
totems per se but Gods (which are noramlly representative of aspects
of human behaviour). These shaman act as healers (actually
psycologists, financial advisors, family councillors etc) and
apothacaries (Sp) for the distribution of herbal medicines. The
African Shaman is differnet in that they vary fairly widely but
generally certain individuals such as diviers, witchdoctors etc are
lumped (incorrectly) into the group. Again though there actual shaman
in Africa who follow similar paths as those found in Tiwan, altough
they do occationally follow an animal. This of course is dependent on
the culture and society where the shaman grew up. If you really want
to stir the pot then having a glance at aboriginan native magic etc,
it can be placed under the context of shamanism but is not. Still I
am going off at a tangent.

As to comment on contact between contact with other cultures, it
really depends on the theory that you follow whether the evolutionist
path, the diffusionist path or one of the others. If you <slap on
hand, wasting valuable bandwidth time>


Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: New Totem / Shaman
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 21:33:35 +1030
>Do I _look_ like an anthropologist? :) I have no idea Sascha, but if you
>would think logically, you'll remember that the land bridge was sometime
>after the last ice age, and that would basically be the last time that
>european and now native american languages would mix. Can you tell me where
>you'll find anything similiar to "Hoka hey" in a european language?

The word shaman derives from an Indian dialect, as in Asian Indian. It
originally referred to those mystical guru types, but broadened. It was
applied to African tribesmen before Amerindians, as well.


--
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* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
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Message no. 6
From: neon@******.backbone.olemiss.edu (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: New Totem / Shaman
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:43:10 -0600
>The idea of the shaman being native american in origin
>or exclusive etc is hogwash. Currently there are shamen in countries
>from China (yes they have them), through Tiwan (have approx. 800),
>through to Africa etc
I knew that just about every culture had something akin to the Shaman. I
was, however, under the (now obviously wrong) impression that 'shaman' was a
native american word. I don't care where the word comes from, I just hate
seeing it be pc'd (as with shawoman)

"Come Shaboy, to the Shamobile!"

Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"You only need two things in this world. WD40 to make things go, and
duct tape to make them stop."

Further Reading

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