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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Fri Nov 16 15:25:01 2001
Hi again all! *wavies* I'm creating a Cyber/Techno-Ninja, and one of his
major schticks is gonna be his ninja gi (ninja suit). Now, I was originally
just gonna buy it as a variant of a Camo Full Suit, but then I spotted some
fun toys in Man & Machine and Cannon Companion. I spotted the very shway
Thermal Dampening (C.C. p. 53), and then some time later the -wiz- Ruthenium
Polymer (M&M p. 114). Now, as you may imagine, my query is whether both
items can be in the same suit? Its obviously a custom job, so I was figuring
it'd be made by cross-threading, that is to say one thread is Ruthenium
Polymer and the next is Thermal Dampening, and so on, with the attendant
circuitry woven in appropriately. Those Imaging Scanners (6 of them) I
figured were tiny, MAYBE the size of a dime at worst. Yes?

Another question is confusion over the armor ratings for the Camo Full
Suit & Camo Jacket. Now, according to the errata, the Jacket has a higher
rating, 5/3, than the Full Suit, 3/1. Plus the Full Suit is lighter, and
costs less. I just don't understand how that's possible. Can someone explain
that to me, please?

Thanks as always for the feedback,

--Wally
http://home.earthlink.net/~stormknight/
Contact me on ICQ at UIN# 163454
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Fri Nov 16 15:40:01 2001
Wally the Intrepid wrote:

> Another question is confusion over the armor ratings for the Camo Full
> Suit & Camo Jacket. Now, according to the errata, the Jacket has a higher
> rating, 5/3, than the Full Suit, 3/1. Plus the Full Suit is lighter, and
> costs less. I just don't understand how that's possible. Can someone explain
> that to me, please?

The full suit is IMO more akin to a regular camo uniform, like you see
soldiers wearing during normal duty. While the jacket is a separate
item worn less often.


--
Iridios
--
From:The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord
(http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on
the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the
Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same
applies to the object which is my one weakness.

Used Without Permission
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Fri Nov 16 15:50:01 2001
> The full suit is IMO more akin to a regular camo uniform, like you see
> soldiers wearing during normal duty. While the jacket is a separate
> item worn less often.
AKA BDU's (Battle Dress Uniforms....Camo clothes)and the flak
jacket....the "jacket" is armored and the regular uniform a piece of
barbed wire will penetrate quite easily
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Fri Nov 16 17:00:03 2001
From: "Wally the Intrepid" <stormknight@*********.net>
> Another question is confusion over the armor ratings for the Camo Full
> Suit & Camo Jacket. Now, according to the errata, the Jacket has a higher
> rating, 5/3, than the Full Suit, 3/1. Plus the Full Suit is lighter, and
> costs less. I just don't understand how that's possible. Can someone explain
> that to me, please?

According to the eratta (http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/book/errata_sr3.html) the
ratings should be as follows:
(Sorry for the bad formatting):

Page 284: Clothing and Armor Table
The stats for Camo Full Suit and Camo Jacket were reversed and should read as
follows:

Conceal Ballistic Impact Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal
Camo Jacket - 3 1 1.5 4/36 hrs 800¥ 1 Legal
Camo Full Suit - 5 3 2 5/36 hrs 1,200¥ 1 Legal

But this is only if you have one of the old printings. If you already have the
above mentioned ratings your book is fine.

A Camo Jacket cost less, weigh less, is easyer to get hold of, and has a worse
armor rating (3/1), that a Camo Full Suit (5/3).

Check what printing you have, before applying all the eratta.

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ B--- UB++ IE+ RN LST W++ dk sa++ ma+
sh++ ad++++ ri mc rk-- m- (e-- o t-- d-) gm+ M- P-
--
Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
their level, then beat you with experience.
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Fri Nov 16 18:05:01 2001
>> From: "Wally the Intrepid" <stormknight@*********.net>
> > Another question is confusion over the armor ratings for the Camo
Full
> > Suit & Camo Jacket. Now, according to the errata, the Jacket has a
higher
> > rating, 5/3, than the Full Suit, 3/1. Plus the Full Suit is lighter, and
> > costs less. I just don't understand how that's possible. Can someone
explain
> > that to me, please?
>
> According to the eratta (http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/book/errata_sr3.html)
the
> ratings should be as follows:
> (Sorry for the bad formatting):
>
> Page 284: Clothing and Armor Table
> The stats for Camo Full Suit and Camo Jacket were reversed and should read
as
> follows:
>
> Conceal Ballistic Impact Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal
> Camo Jacket - 3 1 1.5 4/36 hrs 800¥ 1 Legal
> Camo Full Suit - 5 3 2 5/36 hrs 1,200¥ 1 Legal
>
> But this is only if you have one of the old printings. If you already have
the
> above mentioned ratings your book is fine.
>
> A Camo Jacket cost less, weigh less, is easyer to get hold of, and has a
worse
> armor rating (3/1), that a Camo Full Suit (5/3).
>
> Check what printing you have, before applying all the eratta.
>
> Lars

OK, then, I made a mistake in adjusting my book. My book had the correct
stats all along. Thanks.
I didn't think it made sense that the same items' Jacket would be better
armored and lighter than the Full Suit, when they both seem to be the same
piece of equipment.

--Wally
http://home.earthlink.net/~stormknight/
Contact me on ICQ at UIN# 163454
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Sat Nov 17 01:20:01 2001
At 03:27 PM 11/16/01, you wrote:
> Hi again all! *wavies* I'm creating a Cyber/Techno-Ninja, and one of his
>major schticks is gonna be his ninja gi (ninja suit). Now, I was originally
>just gonna buy it as a variant of a Camo Full Suit, but then I spotted some
>fun toys in Man & Machine and Cannon Companion. I spotted the very shway
>Thermal Dampening (C.C. p. 53), and then some time later the -wiz- Ruthenium
>Polymer (M&M p. 114). Now, as you may imagine, my query is whether both
>items can be in the same suit? Its obviously a custom job, so I was figuring
>it'd be made by cross-threading, that is to say one thread is Ruthenium
>Polymer and the next is Thermal Dampening, and so on, with the attendant
>circuitry woven in appropriately. Those Imaging Scanners (6 of them) I
>figured were tiny, MAYBE the size of a dime at worst. Yes?
>
>--Wally
> http://home.earthlink.net/~stormknight/
> Contact me on ICQ at UIN# 163454


I don't see a problem with this, as only the outermost layer has
to be made up of ruthenium polymers. The thermal dampening material would
go on the inside. It would be a hell of an expensive suit though! A
harder question though, is can the thermal dampening layer be transparent
to visible light? I have a similar character who is currently an NPC in my
campaign, but is to be my PC when another GM takes over (he was built with
the same points as the rest of the PC's). He has ruthenium polymers and
the scanners built into his Dermal Sheathing, and wears a transparent
jumpsuit of Second Skin Line form fitting armor (CC p. 49) when on stealth
missions. Would it be feasible to a have a suit like this made with
thermal dampening properties?

archangel@*********.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12 (Decipher at http://www.geekcode.com/ )
GU d- s+: a22? C++ UL P L+ E(----) W+ N++ o? K? w(---) O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+
PGP? t-- 5 X+ R+ tv b++(+++) DI++++ D++ G e h(--) !r y-
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h b++(1/2) B UB !IE RN- LST !W dk+ sa+++ ma++
sh+ ad++ ri++ mc+++ rk-- m+ gm+ M- P
--
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Sat Nov 17 03:25:01 2001
> At 03:27 PM 11/16/01, you wrote:
> > Hi again all! *wavies* I'm creating a Cyber/Techno-Ninja, and one of
his
> >major schticks is gonna be his ninja gi (ninja suit). Now, I was
originally
> >just gonna buy it as a variant of a Camo Full Suit, but then I spotted
some
> >fun toys in Man & Machine and Cannon Companion. I spotted the very shway
> >Thermal Dampening (C.C. p. 53), and then some time later the -wiz-
Ruthenium
> >Polymer (M&M p. 114). Now, as you may imagine, my query is whether both
> >items can be in the same suit? Its obviously a custom job, so I was
figuring
> >it'd be made by cross-threading, that is to say one thread is Ruthenium
> >Polymer and the next is Thermal Dampening, and so on, with the attendant
> >circuitry woven in appropriately. Those Imaging Scanners (6 of them) I
> >figured were tiny, MAYBE the size of a dime at worst. Yes?
> >
> >--Wally
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~stormknight/
> > Contact me on ICQ at UIN# 163454
>
>
> I don't see a problem with this, as only the outermost layer has
> to be made up of ruthenium polymers. The thermal dampening material would
> go on the inside. It would be a hell of an expensive suit though! A
> harder question though, is can the thermal dampening layer be transparent
> to visible light? I have a similar character who is currently an NPC in
my
> campaign, but is to be my PC when another GM takes over (he was built with
> the same points as the rest of the PC's). He has ruthenium polymers and
> the scanners built into his Dermal Sheathing, and wears a transparent
> jumpsuit of Second Skin Line form fitting armor (CC p. 49) when on stealth
> missions. Would it be feasible to a have a suit like this made with
> thermal dampening properties?
>
> archangel@*********.com

I don't see a difference, or a problem, because I don't believe the
Ruthernium goes transparent, but instead becomes a sort of viewer, a sort of
vid, of what around the wearer. It doesn't matter that the other material is
under it, because heck, SOMETHING'S gotta be under it, ya know?
Thanks for the feedback,

--Wally
http://home.earthlink.net/~stormknight/
Contact me on ICQ at UIN# 163454
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Sat Nov 17 12:25:01 2001
At 03:26 AM 11/17/01, you wrote:
> > I don't see a problem with this, as only the outermost layer has
> > to be made up of ruthenium polymers. The thermal dampening material would
> > go on the inside. It would be a hell of an expensive suit though! A
> > harder question though, is can the thermal dampening layer be transparent
> > to visible light? I have a similar character who is currently an NPC in
>my
> > campaign, but is to be my PC when another GM takes over (he was built with
> > the same points as the rest of the PC's). He has ruthenium polymers and
> > the scanners built into his Dermal Sheathing, and wears a transparent
> > jumpsuit of Second Skin Line form fitting armor (CC p. 49) when on stealth
> > missions. Would it be feasible to a have a suit like this made with
> > thermal dampening properties?
> >
> > archangel@*********.com
>
> I don't see a difference, or a problem, because I don't believe the
>Ruthernium goes transparent, but instead becomes a sort of viewer, a sort of
>vid, of what around the wearer. It doesn't matter that the other material is
>under it, because heck, SOMETHING'S gotta be under it, ya know?
> Thanks for the feedback,
>
>--Wally
> http://home.earthlink.net/~stormknight/
> Contact me on ICQ at UIN# 163454


In my case however, the ruthenium layer is on my skin, and showing
through the transparent armor. My question is can a transparent layer of
thermal dampening be added to the armor? Would that make any sense?

archangel@*********.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12 (Decipher at http://www.geekcode.com/ )
GU d- s+: a22? C++ UL P L+ E(----) W+ N++ o? K? w(---) O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+
PGP? t-- 5 X+ R+ tv b++(+++) DI++++ D++ G e h(--) !r y-
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h b++(1/2) B UB !IE RN- LST !W dk+ sa+++ ma++
sh+ ad++ ri++ mc+++ rk-- m+ gm+ M- P
--
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Sun Nov 18 07:35:00 2001
>
> I don't see a problem with this, as only the outermost layer has
> to be made up of ruthenium polymers. The thermal dampening material would
> go on the inside. It would be a hell of an expensive suit though! A
> harder question though, is can the thermal dampening layer be transparent
> to visible light?

It doesn't need to. A ruthenium suit works by "reading" the image
of the envoriment from one side of your body (through the scanners) and
displaying it on the _opposite_ side. It's basically a big screen. You can
put whatever you want underneath the suit, since it doesn't actually
become transparent.

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
-- Redator da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
ICQ # 4055455
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Oliver McDonald)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Sun Nov 18 14:40:01 2001
On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:21:51 -0500, Robert Manning wrote:

> I don't see a problem with this, as only the outermost layer has
>to be made up of ruthenium polymers. The thermal dampening material would
>go on the inside. It would be a hell of an expensive suit though! A
>harder question though, is can the thermal dampening layer be transparent
>to visible light? I have a similar character who is currently an NPC in my
>campaign, but is to be my PC when another GM takes over (he was built with
>the same points as the rest of the PC's). He has ruthenium polymers and
>the scanners built into his Dermal Sheathing, and wears a transparent
>jumpsuit of Second Skin Line form fitting armor (CC p. 49) when on stealth
>missions. Would it be feasible to a have a suit like this made with
>thermal dampening properties?

I hope that he suffers a small minus against hiding because of the transparent suit... It
is going to affect the polymer's camo
effectiveness.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://www.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.

"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."


And remember that snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled.
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Sun Nov 18 15:25:01 2001
At 02:41 PM 11/18/01, you wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:21:51 -0500, Robert Manning wrote:
>
> > I don't see a problem with this, as only the outermost layer has
> >to be made up of ruthenium polymers. The thermal dampening material would
> >go on the inside. It would be a hell of an expensive suit though! A
> >harder question though, is can the thermal dampening layer be transparent
> >to visible light? I have a similar character who is currently an NPC in my
> >campaign, but is to be my PC when another GM takes over (he was built with
> >the same points as the rest of the PC's). He has ruthenium polymers and
> >the scanners built into his Dermal Sheathing, and wears a transparent
> >jumpsuit of Second Skin Line form fitting armor (CC p. 49) when on stealth
> >missions. Would it be feasible to a have a suit like this made with
> >thermal dampening properties?
>
>I hope that he suffers a small minus against hiding because of the
>transparent suit... It is going to affect the polymer's camo
>effectiveness.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
>http://www.spydernet.com/oliver/
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
> Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.
>
>"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death
>may die."
> -H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."
>
>
>And remember that snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled.


Why is that? I would only really think that would happen if the
suit wasn't fully transparent. Remember that the polymers are underneath
it on his skin.

archangel@*********.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12 (Decipher at http://www.geekcode.com/ )
GU d- s+: a22? C++ UL P L+ E(----) W+ N++ o? K? w(---) O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+
PGP? t-- 5 X+ R+ tv b++(+++) DI++++ D++ G e h(--) !r y-
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h b++(1/2) B UB !IE RN- LST !W dk+ sa+++ ma++
sh+ ad++ ri++ mc+++ rk-- m+ gm+ M- P
--
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Sun Nov 18 21:25:00 2001
<snipt!(TM)>
> Why is that? I would only really think
that would happen if the suit wasn't fully
transparent. Remember that the polymers are
underneath it on his skin.
> archangel@*********.com

Nothing like that IS fully transparent, bub. Have you
ever seen a see-through raincoat? When the fabric
moves, you get light reflecting off it at odd angles.
Bunching of the fabric would obscure the ruthenium
underneath, as would wrinkles. For it to work without
penalties, the see-through exterior would have to be
flat against the ruthenium at ALL times - and even
then you might get glare.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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http://uk.my.yahoo.com
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Sun Nov 18 22:45:01 2001
At 09:26 PM 11/18/01, you wrote:
>Nothing like that IS fully transparent, bub. Have you
>ever seen a see-through raincoat? When the fabric
>moves, you get light reflecting off it at odd angles.
>Bunching of the fabric would obscure the ruthenium
>underneath, as would wrinkles. For it to work without
>penalties, the see-through exterior would have to be
>flat against the ruthenium at ALL times - and even
>then you might get glare.
>
>====>Doc'
>(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka
>Doc' Vader)
>
>.sig Sauer
>
>If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email
>and Music Charts
>http://uk.my.yahoo.com


True, but this is supposedly a skin tight custom made body suit
made from 2060's technology plastics. And while I recognize that it is
also armor consisting in part of "densiplast", do you think this would
actually reduce the effectiveness of the ruthenium polymers enough to
offset the visibility target number penalties? If so, then how much? The
total modifier depends on the number of scanners too, and not on ruthenium
coverage, but this is for simplicity's sake in game terms I assume. Also,
back to the original question, what does everybody think about a
transparent layer of thermal dampening?

archangel@*********.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12 (Decipher at http://www.geekcode.com/ )
GU d- s+: a22? C++ UL P L+ E(----) W+ N++ o? K? w(---) O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+
PGP? t-- 5 X+ R+ tv b++(+++) DI++++ D++ G e h(--) !r y-
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h b++(1/2) B UB !IE RN- LST !W dk+ sa+++ ma++
sh+ ad++ ri++ mc+++ rk-- m+ gm+ M- P
--
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Mon Nov 19 01:15:01 2001
<snipt!(TM)>
> True, but this is supposedly a skin tight
custom made body suit made from 2060's technology
plastics.

Sorry, bub, don't buy that. But that's just me. :)

> And while I recognize that it is also armor
consisting in part of "densiplast", do you think this
would actually reduce the effectiveness of the
ruthenium polymers enough to offset the visibility
target number penalties? If so, then how much? The
total modifier depends on the number of scanners too,
and not on ruthenium coverage, but this is for
simplicity's sake in game terms I assume. Also, back
to the original question, what does everybody think
about a transparent layer of thermal dampening?
> archangel@*********.com

I don't know what would be involved in thermal
dampening, so I can't comment there. As for the
armour, unfortunately, there's no such thing as
transparisteel in SR. ;) I think I'd add a penalty
equal to half the total armour rating. So armour
clothing (B 3, I 0) would add a -1 (or -2, depending
on how mean I was feeling ;), while an armoured jacket
(B 5, I 3) would add a -4).

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (GreyWolf)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Mon Nov 19 02:25:00 2001
From: "Rand Ratinac" <docwagon101@*****.com>
> <snipt!(TM)>
> > True, but this is supposedly a skin tight
> custom made body suit made from 2060's technology
> plastics.
>
> Sorry, bub, don't buy that. But that's just me. :)

Thank goodness for that! I dont think the world could come back from that
kind of setback...

*** Doc walks through downtown Sydney in his new see-thru suit... and a
large chunk of the population go completely blind for some "mystery" reason
doctors have yet to determine.. something about optical system overload...?
***

GreyWolf
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Mon Nov 19 06:55:01 2001
At 01:17 AM 11/19/01, you wrote:
>I don't know what would be involved in thermal
>dampening, so I can't comment there. As for the
>armour, unfortunately, there's no such thing as
>transparisteel in SR. ;) I think I'd add a penalty
>equal to half the total armour rating. So armour
>clothing (B 3, I 0) would add a -1 (or -2, depending
>on how mean I was feeling ;), while an armoured jacket
>(B 5, I 3) would add a -4).
>
>====>Doc'


It got snipped out quite a ways back, but I was talking about a
specific item, the Zoe Second Skin Line body suit from page 49 of Cannon
Companion. There's not much too, it weighing .25 kilograms and have a
concealability rating of 15, even better than a form fitting armor
shirt. It only provides B 2 / I 2 armor rating, but that's not bad as a
second layer under clothing, or by itself for more covert missions.

archangel@*********.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12 (Decipher at http://www.geekcode.com/ )
GU d- s+: a22? C++ UL P L+ E(----) W+ N++ o? K? w(---) O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+
PGP? t-- 5 X+ R+ tv b++(+++) DI++++ D++ G e h(--) !r y-
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h b++(1/2) B UB !IE RN- LST !W dk+ sa+++ ma++
sh+ ad++ ri++ mc+++ rk-- m+ gm+ M- P
--
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Mon Nov 19 19:40:00 2001
<snipt!(TM)>
> It got snipped out quite a ways back, but I
was talking about a specific item, the Zoe Second Skin
Line body suit from page 49 of Cannon Companion.
There's not much too, it weighing .25 kilograms and
have a concealability rating of 15, even better than a
form fitting armor shirt. It only provides B 2 / I 2
armor rating, but that's not bad as a second layer
under clothing, or by itself for more covert missions.
> archangel@*********.com

Then I'd give it a +2 - or I might be persuaded to
reduce it to +1 for such an item. Still, you'd get a
penalty of some amount, no matter what. Not only is it
not possible to make an item of clothing truly
transparent enough that it won't interfere with
something beneath it, but there are game balance
issues. You pay for the convenience (it's always there
- you can just get naked and use it if you haven't got
your special suit) and security (how do you lose
ruthenium sheating?) with lessened effectiveness. At
least, that's how I'd do it.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Mon Nov 19 19:55:01 2001
> > > True, but this is supposedly a skin
tight custom made body suit made from 2060's
technology plastics.
> >
> > Sorry, bub, don't buy that. But that's just me. :)
>
> Thank goodness for that! I dont think the world
could come back from that kind of setback...
>
> *** Doc walks through downtown Sydney in his new
see-thru suit... and a large chunk of the population
go completely blind for some "mystery" reason doctors
have yet to determine.. something about optical system
overload...?
> ***
> GreyWolf

I will fong you! I will fong you good! I promise you
pain! Pain and suffering!

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

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Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Mon Nov 19 20:45:01 2001
Robert,

Something that bothers me about this is the placement of the ruthenium. You
say the sensors are embedded in your skin? And you are wearing transparent
clothes (armor)? Umm... Dude, won't you effectively be naked?

Regardless of the coloring, I don't believe anyone that manages to see you
would be comfortable in your presence. After all, you still have some very
definable features that a mere color job will not hide - especially if you
are watching a hottie. Sorry, couldn't resist.

John
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Tue Nov 20 00:55:01 2001
At 08:44 PM 11/19/01, you wrote:
>Robert,
>
>Something that bothers me about this is the placement of the ruthenium. You
>say the sensors are embedded in your skin? And you are wearing transparent
>clothes (armor)? Umm... Dude, won't you effectively be naked?
>
>Regardless of the coloring, I don't believe anyone that manages to see you
>would be comfortable in your presence. After all, you still have some very
>definable features that a mere color job will not hide - especially if you
>are watching a hottie. Sorry, couldn't resist.
>
>John


The character has rating 1 Dermal Sheathing with ruthenium
polymers and image scanners from page 28 of Man and Machine. The only
picture that I know of showing Dermal Sheathing is in the Cybertechnology
book, and oddly enough, on page 28. It's an alternate for of dermal armor
that covers his body. I don't suppose you've seen Ghost in the Shell? If
not, go watch it, it's a great movie, and check out the manga if you're
into that sort of thing. The general idea is similar to Major Kusanagi's
Thermoptic camouflage, but not quite as effective I would guess.

archangel@*********.com

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Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Tue Nov 20 01:10:01 2001
At 07:42 PM 11/19/01, you wrote:
>Then I'd give it a +2 - or I might be persuaded to
>reduce it to +1 for such an item. Still, you'd get a
>penalty of some amount, no matter what. Not only is it
>not possible to make an item of clothing truly
>transparent enough that it won't interfere with
>something beneath it, but there are game balance
>issues. You pay for the convenience (it's always there
>- you can just get naked and use it if you haven't got
>your special suit) and security (how do you lose
>ruthenium sheating?) with lessened effectiveness. At
>least, that's how I'd do it.
>
>====>Doc'
>(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka
>Doc' Vader)


I can see your point, and I don't suppose it unrealistic to impose
a penalty for it's use. It's still worth it for the extra protection. As
it is, even with a penalty of 2, the target number for visual light based
tests to see him is still +10 due to his 12 image scanners. He still shows
up quite well to astral perception and thermographic vision, which is why a
thermal dampening layer would be nice.
He's pretty well balanced with the rest of the party though, who
are a bunch of pretty powerful individuals. One of them is even an ork
ghoul adept. He's had an interesting time roleplaying that, and has so far
been able to conceal his nature from the rest of the PCs. He's been lucky
enough so far that nobody has assensed him except for once. At that time
however, he was possessed by an enemy initiate, so the astral form assensed
wasn't even his. One more run and he'll have enough karma to initiate and
learn masking. We'll just have to see if his luck holds out long enough. :)

archangel@*********.com

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Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Tue Nov 20 07:05:01 2001
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:57:09 -0500
Robert Manning <archangel@*********.com> wrote:

>
> The character has rating 1 Dermal Sheathing with ruthenium
> polymers and image scanners from page 28 of Man and Machine. The only
> picture that I know of showing Dermal Sheathing is in the Cybertechnology
> book, and oddly enough, on page 28. It's an alternate for of dermal armor
> that covers his body. I don't suppose you've seen Ghost in the Shell? If
> not, go watch it, it's a great movie, and check out the manga if you're
> into that sort of thing. The general idea is similar to Major Kusanagi's
> Thermoptic camouflage, but not quite as effective I would guess.

But _her_ camouflage comes from a skin-tight suit, not from
implants. In this case, you could just replicate it with a "standard"
ruthenium polymer suit. In the same movie, there's a guy who has a
camouflage suit that looks like a raincoat, too.

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dan Turek)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Tue Nov 20 12:50:01 2001
>From: Robert Manning <archangel@*********.com>
>At 08:44 PM 11/19/01, you wrote:

> >
> >Something that bothers me about this is the placement of the ruthenium.
>You
> >say the sensors are embedded in your skin? And you are wearing
>transparent
> >clothes (armor)? Umm... Dude, won't you effectively be naked?
> >

> The character has rating 1 Dermal Sheathing with ruthenium
>polymers and image scanners from page 28 of Man and Machine.

I would think getting a thermal suit with RP over it would be cheaper and
more effective than a transparent thermal suit (I really hope the gay
dwarven tailor is the one fitting you :)

While having a redundant layer of RP isn't cost effective, if they find your
suit it is very unlikely they will guess you also have it implanted.
Couldn't you just get your Dermal Sheathing redone with thermal masking (at
a cost multiplier of x4 and possibly extra essence at the GM's discrection)
if you really want to run around naked? I can't see dermal RP being as
effective as a full suit/helmet though, especially considering eyes/hair, or
wanting to carry something....

It also would play hell with your dating life, but should help you lose
stalkers.

How effective is Trid in 2060? With a camcorder and trid player not only
could you take home movies of the walls and try to blend in, but you could
also switch tapes and be somewhere in Godzilla's left foot. (Probably
easiest if you play a sasquatch)

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Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Tue Nov 20 21:45:01 2001
At 07:02 AM 11/20/01, you wrote:
> > I don't suppose you've seen Ghost in the Shell? If
> > not, go watch it, it's a great movie, and check out the manga if you're
> > into that sort of thing. The general idea is similar to Major Kusanagi's
> > Thermoptic camouflage, but not quite as effective I would guess.
>
> But _her_ camouflage comes from a skin-tight suit, not from
>implants. In this case, you could just replicate it with a "standard"
>ruthenium polymer suit. In the same movie, there's a guy who has a
>camouflage suit that looks like a raincoat, too.
>
>--
>Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR


Are you sure? It was my impression that her camo was built into
her skin, with a few add-ons like the sheet over her face.

archangel@*********.com

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Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Tue Nov 20 21:50:01 2001
> Are you sure? It was my impression that her camo was built
into
> her skin, with a few add-ons like the sheet over her face.
You're right...it was built into her skin because she was a
cyborg....that was part of her body, the guy that she beat the shit out
of in the water on the other hand was only wearing a thermoptic cloak
that happened to "wink" him out of sight for the most part
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Ninjas and Sooperspies...
Date: Wed Nov 21 14:00:01 2001
On Wednesday 21 November 2001 00:47, Robert Manning wrote:

> Are you sure? It was my impression that her camo was built
> into her skin, with a few add-ons like the sheet over her face.

The suit is _really_ skin-tight. When she gets damaged fighting that
tank in the end, you can see it ripping up just before her actual skin
does the same... It's a lot clearer in the comic (which, IIRC, was
published by Dark Horse).

--
Bira -- Sysop da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowlandbr.hpg.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com

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