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Message no. 1
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Non-FASA materials
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 14:57:05 -0500
I am going to add a mention in the FAQ about recommended non-FASA
sourcebooks and materials. I am including what I have worked up so far.
I need you (collective you) to take a look at this list, see if any books
are missing. Also, for many of them I do not know the publishers or
authors, and if you happen to know, please let me know. Thanks.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

NON-FASA SOURCEBOOK RECOMMENDATIONS

In addition to the standard FASA-published materials, there are a great
number of sourcebooks available for other games and systems that can
provide a good many ideas for inclusion in your Shadowrun world. To this
end, included is a listing of many of these books.

NOTE: Use of these books will change Shadowrun (for example, by
adding spaceflight and other ultra-high technology), and it
is recommended only for expierienced GMs.

Cyberpunk 2020
Cyberspace
Edge of the Sword #1: Compendium of Modern Firearms (R. Talsorian)
GURPS: CyberPunk (Loyd Blankenship)
Cyberworld (Paul Hume)
Espionage (Thomas M. Kane)
Illuminati (Nigel D. Findley)
Special Ops
Terradyne (Russell Brown and Mark Waltz)
MegaTraveller
Neo-Anarchists Guide to Everything Else (Jerry Stratton / Tony Moller)
Net Enchancements for Role-Playing Shadowrun (Robert A. Hayden)
Paranoia (West End Games)
Torg

SPECIAL MENTIONS:
The Hacker Crackdown (Bruce Sterling) [Non-Role-Playing]

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
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Message no. 2
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 15:53:47 -0500
How about adding Vampire: the Masquerade to that list? The descriptions of
dark, gothic-punk lifestyles are fairly good, although it's NOT a cyberpunk
game.
Message no. 3
From: Richard Osterhout <bitrunner@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 23:33:43 EDT
how about:

Twilight 2000 2nd ed: heavy weapons handbook (GDW) <before FOF came out, i
used this>
Car Wars: Uncle Alberts Auto Stop & Gunnery Shop catalog from hell (steve
jackson games) <for when the RBB gets old>
lawnmower man rpg (leading edge games)
top secret/si: g4 file:guns, gadgets, getaway gear (tsr)
protect & serve (r talsorian, cyberpunk) <cops and gangs>
gurps: cyberpunk adventures (s jackson games)
compendium of contemporary weapons (palladium books)
guide to the net (r talsorian, cyberpunk)
Message no. 4
From: Joseph Cotton <Joseph.Cotton@*******.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 12:07:57 EDT
On 23 Apr 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> I am going to add a mention in the FAQ about recommended non-FASA
> sourcebooks and materials. I am including what I have worked up so far.
>
>
> GURPS: CyberPunk (Loyd Blankenship)
> Cyberworld (Paul Hume)
> Espionage (Thomas M. Kane)
> Illuminati (Nigel D. Findley)
> Special Ops
> Terradyne (Russell Brown and Mark Waltz)

Not having read the last four on your list, I'm not sure how much overlap
this will cause, but I'd probably add Ultra-Tech, and definately recommend
adding GURPS Vehicles (both by David Pulver).

Or I might add GURPS Space instead of Ultra-Tech. Having both would
definately be a lot of overlap, though.

Joe Cotton
Joseph.Cotton@*******.oit.unc.edu
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <jweste%smtp@******.HZEELAND.NL>
Subject: Non-FASA materials - Reply
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 18:21:52 +0200
You could add both Chromebooks (for Cyberpunk 2020) to the list. I have
'em both, converted them to SR myself, and I think they contain some real
nice ideas (though the full-body replacements of CB2 are a bit over-the-
top, me thinks).
Message no. 6
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 12:40:40 -0500
On Sun, 24 Apr 1994, Joseph Cotton wrote:

> Not having read the last four on your list, I'm not sure how much overlap
> this will cause, but I'd probably add Ultra-Tech, and definately recommend
> adding GURPS Vehicles (both by David Pulver).

I'm kinda wary of Ultra-Tech, as bringing in Mechs and the like (note no
Battletech on the list) serious changes Shadowrun. Adding space
(espicially Terradyne, which make SR much more like Total Recall) changes
the world a little, but not the basic plots, Mechs, and the associated
tech that comes with that, changes the very core of the society.

I will put in vehicles, though.

> Or I might add GURPS Space instead of Ultra-Tech. Having both would
> definately be a lot of overlap, though.

GURPS space is just a _tad_ too high in tech, as you have FTL travel.
Butt so does megatraveller, so I'll put space in. Terradyne (sorry, it;s
just a GREAT sourcebook) limits people to sub-luminal velocities (18
month flight times to Jupiter, for example). So the tech isn't pushed
too hard. Can you tell me hte author of GURPS Space?

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
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Message no. 7
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 18:26:36 -0400
As long as we're talking about such things, I saw a "matrix"
sourcebook for Mage: The Ascension at my favorite gaming shop recently.
It looked like another cliche RPG Cyberspace, with questionable rules, but
then I've never played Mage.
Anybody know anything about it?

----------------------------------------------<jdfalk@****.com>-----
"The Ogre philosopher Gnerdel beleived the purpose of life
was to live as high on the food chain as possible.
She refused to eat vegetarians, and preferred to live entirely
on creatures that preyed on sentient beings."
-Magic: The Gathering "Grey Ogre"
Message no. 8
From: Richard Osterhout <bitrunner@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 22:45:05 EDT
i saw that book too...i leafed through it, and it didn't look like it could
be converted very easily...

isn't Mage one of those card games??
Message no. 9
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 00:31:25 -0400
Being that the original message is one that I wrote, I actually
know what Richard's talking about here. Richard, to help everybody else
out, I'd suggest strongly that you quote the appropriate parts of the
message you're responding to.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled mailing list.

On Sun, 24 Apr 1994, Richard Osterhout wrote:

> i saw that book too...i leafed through it, and it didn't look like it could
> be converted very easily...
>
> isn't Mage one of those card games??

No, you're thinking of Magic: The Gathering, which is a seperate
thing (I became addicted to it less that a week ago, and have been
playing _way_ too much since.) Mage: The Ascension seems to be another
game with an Awakening-type catastrophe and subsequent arrival of magic in
the world.
Message no. 10
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 21:46:15 -0700
J.D. said
> No, you're thinking of Magic: The Gathering, which is a seperate
>thing (I became addicted to it less that a week ago, and have been
>playing _way_ too much since.) Mage: The Ascension seems to be another
>game with an Awakening-type catastrophe and subsequent arrival of magic in
>the world.

no. Actually in the "world of darkness" (vampire/werewolf/mage game world)
Mages have been around for a long time.

Mages are people who are able to warp reality through willpower (like SR)
but the have no need of spells (unlike SR). They just need to know a few things
- Ie if you don't know how to do healing - you can't healing. Anything that
comes under what you know is possible. You can toss fireballs, and lightening,
travel at the speed of thought through the net (or whatever it is). The only
limits are imagination and your over all power. Things are easier to do it they
don't got against what people think is believable instead of said fireball, a
gas line breaks and explodes into fire. Now there is no real game difference
but there is a big difference in that all the mundanes aren't working against
you in believing that it is impossible to toss fireballs

over all, it looks to be an ok system, it is VERY free-form and has a lot of
room for imagination.
The bad guys are the Technocracy who brought about the "scienctific revolution"
and royally weakend magic (no one believed in magic - it became harder to do)





BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Daniel Waisley + SCA - March of Ered Sul - Flagstaff AZ
DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU + Nau fencing club.
"Nightfox" + Brotherhood of the Cryptic Demesne -household
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Message no. 11
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 01:35:31 -0400
[Nightfox explains Mage: The Ascension much better than I did.]

Sounds interesting, but I'm sticking with Shadowrun. Thanks for
clearing that up, though -- I, personally, have never played Mage,
Vampire, or Werewolf.
Message no. 12
From: A cohort's CoHort <cohort@******.CONNECTED.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 04:41:49 -0700
On Sun, 24 Apr 1994, Joseph Cotton wrote:
> Not having read the last four on your list, I'm not sure how much overlap
> this will cause, but I'd probably add Ultra-Tech, and definately recommend
> adding GURPS Vehicles (both by David Pulver).
>
> Or I might add GURPS Space instead of Ultra-Tech. Having both would
> definately be a lot of overlap, though.
Betwixt Cyberpunk and Vehicles, Space is useless (all the same stuff, as
far as items go) unless you intend to make a new solar system to run your
SR campaign in.
Between Cyberpunk and Ultra-tech, you have just about all the equipment,
other than vehicles, that you could possibly need in a SR-esque campaign,
tho there is quite a bit of overlap. Use Aliens if you want to prototype
new creatures (best creature creation system I've seen).
If you want to completely convert your SR game to GURPS, go get GURPS
Magic, but as a warning, it's a really powerful magic system.

cohort@******.connected.com
-----=====-----
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
When all else fails, read the manual.
Message no. 13
From: A cohort's CoHort <cohort@******.CONNECTED.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 04:48:54 -0700
On Sun, 24 Apr 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> I'm kinda wary of Ultra-Tech, as bringing in Mechs and the like (note no
> Battletech on the list) serious changes Shadowrun. Adding space
> (espicially Terradyne, which make SR much more like Total Recall) changes
> the world a little, but not the basic plots, Mechs, and the associated
> tech that comes with that, changes the very core of the society.
>
To date, SJG has no 'Mech system rules, in GURPS or out. I have
corresponded with Steve, and he says that one is on the drawing board,
but wouldn't be out until late 95-mid 96, if ever.
Ultra-Tech is a sourcebook of equipment and tech in TL 8-16+.

> I will put in vehicles, though.
>
If you put in GURPS Vehicles, you should put in Car Wars Compendium, too.

> GURPS space is just a _tad_ too high in tech, as you have FTL travel.
> Butt so does megatraveller, so I'll put space in. Terradyne (sorry, it;s
> just a GREAT sourcebook) limits people to sub-luminal velocities (18
> month flight times to Jupiter, for example). So the tech isn't pushed
> too hard. Can you tell me hte author of GURPS Space?
>
I think Steve wrote this one himself, but I couldn't be exactly sure.

cohort@******.connected.com
-----=====-----
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
When all else fails, read the manual.
Message no. 14
From: Joseph Cotton <Joseph.Cotton@*******.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:11:48 EDT
On Sun 24 Apr 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

>
> I'm kinda wary of Ultra-Tech, as bringing in Mechs and the like (note no
> Battletech on the list) serious changes Shadowrun. Adding space
> (espicially Terradyne, which make SR much more like Total Recall) changes
> the world a little, but not the basic plots, Mechs, and the associated
> tech that comes with that, changes the very core of the society.
>

Ultra-Tech has powered combat armor, not 'Mechs in the sense you're
thinking of, or at least in the sense _I'm_ thinking _you're_ thinking
of. However, TL 13+ stuff gets pretty awesomely powerful, no question.

>
> GURPS space is just a _tad_ too high in tech, as you have FTL travel.
> Butt so does megatraveller, so I'll put space in. Terradyne (sorry, it;s
> just a GREAT sourcebook) limits people to sub-luminal velocities (18
> month flight times to Jupiter, for example). So the tech isn't pushed
> too hard. Can you tell me hte author of GURPS Space?

GURPS Space was written by Steve Jackson and William A. Barton, or at
least the first edition was. And, yes, I would warn anyone using any of
the GURPS sourcebooks with higher-TL items in it not to go beyond TL 9,
unless they wanted a radical change to their SR campaign.

Someone else mentioned using GURPS Magic if you wanted to translate your
SR campaign to GURPS. Another good choice might be GURPS Grimoire, which
includes the new Tech Magic spells, which are spells that directly affect
machines and other technical devices. I haven't really looked at the
Grimoire yet, but I did read the Roleplayer article on Tech Magic, and
it looked interesting.

Joe Cotton
Joseph.Cotton@*******.oit.unc.edu
Message no. 15
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:37:12 -0500
On Mon, 25 Apr 1994, Joseph Cotton wrote:

> GURPS Space was written by Steve Jackson and William A. Barton, or at
> least the first edition was. And, yes, I would warn anyone using any of
> the GURPS sourcebooks with higher-TL items in it not to go beyond TL 9,
> unless they wanted a radical change to their SR campaign.

TerraDyne limits tech to TL8 or so. There are four types of space flight
available. Chemical (LO+LH usually), RamJets, ION (slow acceleration
[like .0005g] electrical engines) and Solar Sails. All of these are
within the reality of Shadowrun, so it has the benefit of not pushing
the tech at all, just broadening it.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
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Message no. 16
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 20:46:15 -0500
For that matter, JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) has developed ion drives,
but they are intensely radioactive. Therefore, they designed something that
looks kind of like this:

*============================================O

Where O is the rest of the satellite, the line of "="'s is a long structure of
lead-coated steel (I think) to isolate the radiation source, and the * is the
ion drive.

The things, when they're turned on, have this *really* cool bluish glow to them.
Message no. 17
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 22:23:24 -0500
Ion drives are pretty much useless anywhere but in space, as they have
very little impulse. If you want to get there fast, you go to a chemical
rocket.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
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Message no. 18
From: Egil Geir Brautaset <egilbra@***.UNIT.NO>
Subject: Re: Non-FASA materials
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 12:18:22 +0200
IMO, introducing GURPS Magic into any shadowrun campaign would be very difficult
in terms of conversion work for magic. There are few similarities between the
two magic systems, and in a few points they diverge completely.

-- Egil <egilbra@***.unit.no>

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Non-FASA materials, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!