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Message no. 1
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject: Non-lethal Injuries (Re: Melee Weapons (was Re: Weapon foci))
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:08:00 +1000
>> I'm under the impression that broken bones and such fall under stun
>> damage because they have much less potential to be lethal on their
>> own. Whereas, ballistic and edged weapon wounds cause the body to
>> readily bleed and have a greater chance of being lethal.
>
> Yeah, but broken bones don't heal in minutes or hours, trust me.
>When bones break, you tend to suffer debilitating effects (i.e. wound
>modifiers) that last for quite a while. Some bones are worse than others,
>and you're more likely to want to crawl in a hole and die if you're broken
>your neck than if you're broekn your pinky. But as someone who has broken
>an arm, a collarbone, fingers, and toes, as well as cracked ribs, I can
>tell you that it's no fun.

Amen to that. As those of you who've known me for a while will remember, in
June 98 I was hit by a car (I was a pedestrian) and damaged numerous things
(aorta, nerves, bones, lungs, spleen, blah blah blah you've all heard the
story before). Most serious (apart from my enforced 2-month absence from
the internet during my hospital stay!) were:

- Radius (wrist)
I still get serious pains down the inside of my right forearm and thumb -
typing can be utter hell, but like I'd stop... :-)

- Sacrum (tailbone)
I have to be very careful about what I sit on - basically, I can only sit
on well-padded stuff, and ergonomic office chairs are best.

- Pelvis
Laid up in a hospital bed unable to move for a month, and a further month
of only walking for 10 or 15 minutes a day. 40 metres was about my limit.
For months afterward I couldn't lie on my side. (No sex for four months,
too. :-( )

- Tibia & fibula (lower left leg)
This was exacerbated by the pelvis damage (ie. by the time my pelvis had
healed enough that I could get up and walk, my leg muscles had atrophied to
the point where I _couldn't_ walk). I still suffer great amounts of pain
from it every day - I have not gone a second without physical pain since
last June - and I can't walk far, fast, or for long. I can't stand up for
more than about 10 minutes; I can't run, hop, or jump.

These are the effects I suffer _NOW_, more than seven months after the
accident. I had the best of medical care and excellent physiotherapists,
and these problems are still rampant. Imagine the difficulties suffered by
a shadowrunner, with inadequate medical care, no physiotherapy, and a
tendancy to 'push' their recovery - they'd cripple themselves in no time flat.

This is something people don't tend to think about - in my case, the leg
break (for example) would have been the equivalent of a Serious wound.
Admittedly Shadowrun's healing times are unrealistic (let's face it, it's
no fun playing a bunch of hapless cripples on a regular basis), which
extends the problem - people tend to shrug off the long-term effects of
character injury where they perhaps shouldn't.

Hmm. That turned into a rant, and I'm not quite sure what I was ranting
_about_. So, let me close by saying...

Umm...

I can't think of a good last line.

Oh, wait. Here's one:

"Being hit by a car is no fun."

<g>

Lady Jestyr

"A true beanie should have a propellor on the top." -- Terry Pratchett
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 2
From: greg basa demipop@**********.com
Subject: Non-lethal Injuries (Re: Melee Weapons (was Re: Weapon foci))
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:59:47 -0500
>Amen to that. As those of you who've known me for a while will
remember, in
>June 98 I was hit by a car (I was a pedestrian) and damaged numerous
things
>(aorta, nerves, bones, lungs, spleen, blah blah blah you've all heard
the
>story before). Most serious (apart from my enforced 2-month absence
from
>the internet during my hospital stay!) were:
>
>"Being hit by a car is no fun."
>
Heck, I was hit in July of 96 by a car (pedestrian) and also suffered
numerous things (broken leg among them. Unlike you, I am able to run
and jump and hop. However, the titanium rod in my leg feels funny in
the winter, so that more than makes up for it.). So, yes, being hit
by a car is no fun at all.

Um, anyway, about the bone-breaking thing...as a pacifist, he won't
take the life of another sentient being. When he must, he'll do so
only in self-defense and as humanely as possible. This much is
understandable. However, it says nothing about using extreme measures
to repel those who would harm him. I would dare say that shattering
someone's leg, destroying cyberware, or knocking someone unconscious
with a single blow would apply as acceptable defense in a game world
where almost everybody carries a gun.

Besides, my reasoning is this: ganger gets into a fight with a
physical adept pacifist (which is what this character is going to be).
Because she fights only in self-defense, it can only be assumed that
he picked a fight with her, and this also means that he deserves
whatever he has coming to him.

She breaks his arm, busts his cyber, and makes his knee bend in a way
that nature never intended. While the ganger lies crying and broken
on the street, she walks off. Didn't take his life, took him out as
fast as possible, and ensured that he wouldn't be able to pick on
anybody else for a very long time, thus doing society a favor with
minimal bloodshed.

Is that interpreting the pacifist flaw in the thinnest way possible?
Well, yes, but the Sixth World is a very violent place.

Now...do broken bones count as mental or physical damage, or perhaps
the loss of an attribute or skill (like athletics, for example)?

-----
Your favorite band sucks.

Angelkiller 404

http://www.mindspring.com/~demipop/

ICQ: 2157053
Message no. 3
From: Dodge d7582@*****.com
Subject: Non-lethal Injuries (Re: Melee Weapons (was Re: Weapon foci))
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:50:38 -0800
<snip>
..as a pacifist, he won't
> take the life of another sentient being. When he must, he'll do so
> only in self-defense and as humanely as possible.

Do not hurt where holding will do,
Do not wound where hurting will do,
Do not maim where wounding willdo,
Do not kill where maiming will do...

Snippet from Thomas Covenant the Unbeliver, A book with a maybe
delusional world full of dettermined Pacifists and a leper for a main
charecter...
Message no. 4
From: greg basa demipop@**********.com
Subject: Non-lethal Injuries (Re: Melee Weapons (was Re: Weapon foci))
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:56:18 -0500
>Do not hurt where holding will do,
>Do not wound where hurting will do,
>Do not maim where wounding willdo,
>Do not kill where maiming will do...
>
>Snippet from Thomas Covenant the Unbeliver, A book with a maybe
>delusional world full of dettermined Pacifists and a leper for a main
>charecter...


Sounds nice....I'll take those last three lines with some soykaf and
this unsharpened katana, screw the first line altogether. (Hey, I
don't buy my beliefs in bulk!)
Message no. 5
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: Non-lethal Injuries (Re: Melee Weapons (was Re: Weapon foci))
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:35:48 -0700 (MST)
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Dodge wrote:

Do not push away where walking away will do,
Do no hold where pushing away will do,
/ Do not hurt where holding will do,
/ Do not wound where hurting will do,
/ Do not maim where wounding will do,
/ Do not kill where maiming will do...

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

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