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Message no. 1
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: non-SR: school quality
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:15:08 +0100
This is totally not SR-related, but I just had to post this somewhere... I
was looking at a program called Living In The USA, which was on a
shareware CD ROM (C!TROM 6, for interested Dutch readers), and while
looking at the topic "Public Schools/Quality of Schools" I read this:

"You child could receive an exemplary education at an American public
school or else come home missing a vital organ."

:) :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
How does it feel to be like you?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 2
From: cath@*******.ior.com (Auvil (Cath,Ty or Jahmai))
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 13:55 PST
>"You child could receive an exemplary education at an American public
>school or else come home missing a vital organ."

American schools suck so bad, thats why I'm home schooled.



E-mail: cath@*******.ior.com
Home Page: Anyday now.
Message no. 3
From: "Larry White (WPG) (Exchange)" <Larryw@********.MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: non-SR: school quality
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:44:25 -0800
On 4 Jan 96 Cath@*******.ior.com said:
>>American schools suck so bad, thats why I'm home schooled.
The word you want is "badly", not "bad". It is an adverb modifying
"suck".
"That's" should have an apostrophe in it.
Larry
(I went to public schools.)
> ;-)
Message no. 4
From: oojohn <Thanatos@******.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 23:02:50 +0000
Larry White (WPG) (Exchange) wrote:
>
> On 4 Jan 96 Cath@*******.ior.com said:
> >>American schools suck so bad, thats why I'm home schooled.
> The word you want is "badly", not "bad". It is an adverb
modifying "suck".
> "That's" should have an apostrophe in it.
> Larry
> (I went to public schools.)
> > ;-)SLAM!!
Message no. 5
From: cath@*******.ior.com (Auvil (Cath,Ty or Jahmai))
Subject: RE: non-SR: school quality
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 17:27 PST
>On 4 Jan 96 Cath@*******.ior.com said:
>>>American schools suck so bad, thats why I'm home schooled.
>The word you want is "badly", not "bad". It is an adverb
modifying "suck".
>"That's" should have an apostrophe in it.
>Larry
>(I went to public schools.)
>> ;-)
>
>
I'm also a free thinker and think without such a crutch.



E-mail: cath@*******.ior.com
Home Page: Anyday now.
Message no. 6
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 01:03:09 -0500 (EST)
Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
MIME: We shoot them here.

From: oojohn <Thanatos@******.demon.co.uk>
>Larry White (WPG) (Exchange) wrote:
>>
>> On 4 Jan 96 Cath@*******.ior.com said:
>> >>American schools suck so bad, thats why I'm home schooled.
>> The word you want is "badly", not "bad". It is an adverb
modifying "suck".
>> "That's" should have an apostrophe in it.
>> Larry
>> (I went to public schools.)
>> > ;-)SLAM!!

Ouch...

Actually, in my experience, I have generally found that the amount of
learning is more dependant on the student, not the teacher, but as far
as schools go, American public school graduates are less learned than
graduates of the schools of many other countries. I have my own
personal reasons for why this is, but that's really another listserv.

BTW, I was home-schooled, too.... at least, until I was fourteen, when
I started college. :) I'm not trying to flame anyone or get anyone mad,
many, many people I know are smart enough to have started college when
fourteen or younger, but most people aren't as motivated as I am.

Oh, and although I did study them, I have never found the use for knowing
what a adverb, pronoun, or past participle is. ;)

>>>>>>>> Nate, who really doesn't remember what a participle is
anyway.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| |
| I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
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Message no. 7
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 01:43 EST
>"You child could receive an exemplary education at an American public
>school or else come home missing a vital organ."
Sad, but true. Of course it you go to the right school both can happen.
Remember it's not the quality of the education, it's whether you survive or
not. ;)
---Sedah Drol
--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 8
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 03:19 EST
>Oh, and although I did study them, I have never found the use for knowing
>what a adverb, pronoun, or past participle is. ;)
You only need to know these things if you plan on becoming an English
teacher, in most cases. Sometimes you can trick everyone else into thinking
you know what your talking about though.
BTW, has anyone wondered what schools in 2055 are like, any armed guards or
cyberware checkpoints? (just decided to make this relevant to the list)
---Sedah Drol
--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 9
From: pbailey@***.ipswichcity.qld.gov.au (Peter Bailey)
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 23:28:05
Hi Victor,

> >Oh, and although I did study them, I have never found the use for knowing
> >what a adverb, pronoun, or past participle is. ;)
> You only need to know these things if you plan on becoming an English
> teacher, in most cases. Sometimes you can trick everyone else into thinking
> you know what your talking about though.
> BTW, has anyone wondered what schools in 2055 are like, any armed guards or
> cyberware checkpoints? (just decided to make this relevant to the list)

Check out the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Everything Else. There's a couple of
schools listed in one of the volumes at least.

Cheers,
Message no. 10
From: oojohn <Thanatos@******.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 19:01:45 +0000
Peter Bailey wrote:
>
> Hi Victor,
>
> > >Oh, and although I did study them, I have never found the use for knowing
> > >what a adverb, pronoun, or past participle is. ;)
> > You only need to know these things if you plan on becoming an English
> > teacher, in most cases. Sometimes you can trick everyone else into thinking
> > you know what your talking about though.
> > BTW, has anyone wondered what schools in 2055 are like, any armed guards or
> > cyberware checkpoints? (just decided to make this relevant to the list)
>
> Check out the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Everything Else. There's a couple of
> schools listed in one of the volumes at least.
>
> Cheers,


Where Could I find a copy of that? Or is there a web page?
Message no. 11
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:10:54 -0700 (MST)
On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, Nathan Walker wrote:

> Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
> MIME: We shoot them here.
>
> From: oojohn <Thanatos@******.demon.co.uk>
> >Larry White (WPG) (Exchange) wrote:
> >>
> >> On 4 Jan 96 Cath@*******.ior.com said:
> >> >>American schools suck so bad, thats why I'm home schooled.
> >> The word you want is "badly", not "bad". It is an
adverb modifying "suck".
> >> "That's" should have an apostrophe in it.
> >> Larry
> >> (I went to public schools.)
> >> > ;-)SLAM!!
>
> Ouch...
No kidding.
>
> Actually, in my experience, I have generally found that the amount of
> learning is more dependant on the student, not the teacher, but as far
> as schools go, American public school graduates are less learned than
> graduates of the schools of many other countries. I have my own
> personal reasons for why this is, but that's really another listserv.
As do I. That's why I went to a Catholic school. One of the public
school's there had a freshman class as large as my school's total
population and yet both of our schjool's had the same number of
graduates, ours not suffering from attrition like what happened to them.
>
> BTW, I was home-schooled, too.... at least, until I was fourteen, when
> I started college. :) I'm not trying to flame anyone or get anyone mad,
> many, many people I know are smart enough to have started college when
> fourteen or younger, but most people aren't as motivated as I am.
>
> Oh, and although I did study them, I have never found the use for knowing
> what a adverb, pronoun, or past participle is. ;)
Yet my English teachers have been pounding that into us since fifth
grade.I started out in Catholic school in Kindergarten. Alas, I never
got to enjoy the fun, games, grugs, gangs, etc. that the public schoolers
got to. It is really pathetic.
>
> >>>>>>>> Nate, who really doesn't remember what a participle
is anyway.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> | NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
> | |
> | I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
What's the difference?
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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>
Message no. 12
From: gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu (S.F. Eley)
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 02:15:03 -0500 (EST)
Nathan Walker writes:

> BTW, I was home-schooled, too.... at least, until I was fourteen, when
> I started college. :) I'm not trying to flame anyone or get anyone mad,
> many, many people I know are smart enough to have started college when
> fourteen or younger, but most people aren't as motivated as I am.

"Aren't as motivated?" Please. I doubt you got anyone mad, although I do
think you're cocky and sometimes talk too much.

Motivation isn't the point; background and opportunity are the point. You
probably didn't choose when you were a child to be home-schooled.. It
wasn't your "motivation," it was your parents'. College was probably
similar.. Your background serves as an impetus. *shrug* Myself, I
could have skipped most of elementary school, but my parents declined.
(I never found out about it until I was 16.) In retrospect, I'm glad of
it--most people I know who started college several years early have serious
trouble adjusting socially. I'm not in any particular hurry; I have enough
"motivations" in my life.



> Oh, and although I did study them, I have never found the use for knowing
> what a adverb, pronoun, or past participle is. ;)

The "use" is that you can use them more effectively. Anyone can light a
fire, but for real pyrotechnics you have to have a chemical understanding
of the processes involved. It's the same with grammar. You can be
comprehended--usually--without learning it, but to impress people with the
language, you have to know how the language works.


OBShadowrunRelevance: How many GM's actually call for language rolls for
their PC's? I tend to forget how often the majority of the group will be
confused trying to question that squatter on the street.. Only one of them
bothered to pick up Cityspeak, and I require Specializations based on the
city. Anyone have any tips or stories about "culture shock" (or subculture
shock) in the Barrens? >8->



>>>>>>>> Nate, who really doesn't remember what a participle is
anyway.

Then I guess you're fragged.
~~~~~~~

Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu|
My opinions are my opinions. | "You sir, are no lady."
Please don't blame anyone else. | - R. Slatkin
Message no. 13
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 15:52:49 -0700 (MST)
|Nathan Walker writes:
|
|OBShadowrunRelevance: How many GM's actually call for language rolls for
|their PC's? I tend to forget how often the majority of the group will be
|confused trying to question that squatter on the street.. Only one of them
|bothered to pick up Cityspeak, and I require Specializations based on the
|city.

I don't have my players roll. By the book they should roll for every idea
they are trying to communicate in a non-native language, even if they have
a language skill as high as a 10.

I use the following table:

Skill Level Ability
-------------------------------
1 Knows a couple words and phrases.
2 Can haltingly communicate basic needs.
3 Can communicate simple ideas.
4 Can communicate effectivly.
5 Can communicate complex ideas fluently.
6 Can communicate technical ideas, native accent.
7 Can communicate philosophy, different dialects.
8+ Has a PhD level of knowledge of the language.

Based on the characters level of fluency I and my players roleplay it.

-David

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Buehrer The UnCover Company
dbuehrer@****.org info: uncover@****.org
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068 access: database.carl.org
www.carl.org/uncover/unchome.html
Customer Support: 1-800-787-7979
FAX: (303) 758-5946
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: "Florian Leischner" <dachs@***.com>
Subject: RE: non-SR: school quality
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 23:47:30 UT
Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:
>BTW, has anyone wondered what schools in 2055 are like, any armed >guards or
>cyberware checkpoints? (just decided to make this relevant to the list)
> ---Sedah Drol

Check out "ivy&crome" an premade SR adventure. It gives you some clues how a

(private) school looks like.
dachs@***.com
Message no. 15
From: GKoth2258@***.com
Subject: Re: RE: non-SR: school quality
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 17:33:43 -0500
I guess being a free-thinker means you are allowed to ignore the rules of the
English language...gee, where can I sign up?

Sorry, but just because you are a "free-thinker" doesn't mean you are allowed
to ignore any convention, rule, or law you don't like. I'm not exactly an
English teacher, and I've never really understood what a past participle is
(part of my problem with learning German I suppose). But I don't go about
ignoring something I don't understand, if I can help it.

As for SR schools in 2057, I would have to imagine they would be a mirror of
schools in LA. You have some schools that are the dregs, where being shot at
is a daily concern. You learn how to dodge bullets, not diagram sentences.
Then you have an expensive private school, USC, in the middle of it all.
Imagine armed guards and patrols, much as in any corporate enclave; which
USC would probably be. A puppet of corporations.

In other words, extremes.

Sorry for any "heat" in my post, but certain things just bother me...

Erik
list.member.slightly.grumpy
Message no. 16
From: oojohn <Thanatos@******.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 10:47:23 +0000
James Meiers wrote:
>
> On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, Nathan Walker wrote:
>
> > Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
> > MIME: We shoot them here.
> >
> > From: oojohn <Thanatos@******.demon.co.uk>
> > >Larry White (WPG) (Exchange) wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 4 Jan 96 Cath@*******.ior.com said:
> > >> >>American schools suck so bad, thats why I'm home schooled.
> > >> The word you want is "badly", not "bad". It is an
adverb modifying "suck".
> > >> "That's" should have an apostrophe in it.
> > >> Larry
> > >> (I went to public schools.)
> > >> > ;-)SLAM!!
> >
> > Ouch...
> No kidding.
> >
> > Actually, in my experience, I have generally found that the amount of
> > learning is more dependant on the student, not the teacher, but as far
> > as schools go, American public school graduates are less learned than
> > graduates of the schools of many other countries. I have my own
> > personal reasons for why this is, but that's really another listserv.
> As do I. That's why I went to a Catholic school. One of the public
> school's there had a freshman class as large as my school's total
> population and yet both of our schjool's had the same number of
> graduates, ours not suffering from attrition like what happened to them.
> >
> > BTW, I was home-schooled, too.... at least, until I was fourteen, when
> > I started college. :) I'm not trying to flame anyone or get anyone mad,
> > many, many people I know are smart enough to have started college when
> > fourteen or younger, but most people aren't as motivated as I am.
> >
> > Oh, and although I did study them, I have never found the use for knowing
> > what a adverb, pronoun, or past participle is. ;)
> Yet my English teachers have been pounding that into us since fifth
> grade.I started out in Catholic school in Kindergarten. Alas, I never
> got to enjoy the fun, games, grugs, gangs, etc. that the public schoolers
> got to. It is really pathetic.
> >
> > >>>>>>>> Nate, who really doesn't remember what a
participle is anyway.
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > | NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
> > | |
> > | I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
> What's the difference?
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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!r y?
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> >


Cmon guys, This is REALLY off the topic.... loose this thread..
Message no. 17
From: westec@******.COM (Neon Sihn)
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:27:05 -0600
>|Nathan Walker writes:
>|
>|OBShadowrunRelevance: How many GM's actually call for language rolls for
>|their PC's? I tend to forget how often the majority of the group will be
>|confused trying to question that squatter on the street.. Only one of them
>|bothered to pick up Cityspeak, and I require Specializations based on the
>|city.

of course... and I use accents from different areas, even different
neighborhoods to identify/isolate characters from each other. Gotta
use that streetwise and language......






---------construction in progress-------------------
westec@******.com
TIP #1323 IPPA #A-0117 Lively #F188
---------construction in progress-------------------
Message no. 18
From: cath@*******.ior.com (Auvil (Cath,Ty or Jahmai))
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 23:01 PST
>Motivation isn't the point; background and opportunity are the point. You
>probably didn't choose when you were a child to be home-schooled.. It
>wasn't your "motivation," it was your parents'.

Actually my parents' wanted me to do what I wanted to do, and I decided to
home school,
and learned to read with a book called I think "The best of Mark Twain".





E-mail: cath@*******.ior.com
Home Page: Anyday now.
Message no. 19
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:34:47 +0100
S.F. Eley said on 9 Jan 96...

> Motivation isn't the point; background and opportunity are the point.

Oh? In that case I could have finished college easily instead of dropping
out after two years.

> OBShadowrunRelevance: How many GM's actually call for language rolls for
> their PC's? I tend to forget how often the majority of the group will be
> confused trying to question that squatter on the street.. Only one of them
> bothered to pick up Cityspeak, and I require Specializations based on the
> city.

I keep wanting to enforce the languages bit, but I usually forget. In my
PBEM there's two characters who don't have English as a native language
(one of them is German with English skill 1, the other speaks City Speak
with English at 3), and especially the German character keeps speaking
English as if he never did anything else...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
There's more to life than being happy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 20
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 23:53:30 +1100 (EST)
>I keep wanting to enforce the languages bit, but I usually forget. In my
>PBEM there's two characters who don't have English as a native language
>(one of them is German with English skill 1, the other speaks City Speak
>with English at 3), and especially the German character keeps speaking
>English as if he never did anything else...

Well, I have enough trouble understanding Amrog when he speaks, let alone
Rico (the character with City Speak...) I did play the reading part,
though.

(IMHO: CitySpeak varies greatly from city to city, or at least culture to
culture. I play it kind of like a mishmash of any dominant languages in
the vicinity. For example: in Seattle, City Speak is a mixture of
English, Japanese, and various Amerindian languages, just like the
novels. In, say, Hong Kong, it's a mixture of Japanese, Korean, English,
Cantonese, Mandarin, and various other Chinese dialects (say, Hakka).)


--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realizedthat a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent infinding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 21
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:36:57 +0100
Robert Watkins said on 10 Jan 96...

> Well, I have enough trouble understanding Amrog when he speaks, let alone
> Rico (the character with City Speak...) I did play the reading part,
> though.

Yes, though you still haven't bought a chip for that :) Amrog, however,
has an English skill of 1, which is doesn't really show when you look at
the way he talks, IMHO. (Carsten, if you're listening, I think I should
have discussed this with you first before dumping it here for everybody to
read, shouldn't I...?)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
There's more to life than being happy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 22
From: westec@******.COM (Neon Sihn)
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:15:42 -0600
>> OBShadowrunRelevance: How many GM's actually call for language rolls
>
>I keep wanting to enforce the languages bit, but I usually forget. In my
>PBEM there's two characters who don't have English as a native language
>(one of them is German with English skill 1, the other speaks City Speak
>with English at 3), and especially the German character keeps speaking
>English as if he never did anything else...



I did a PBEM game locally and it made it extremely easy to keep the
characters "informed" as per there langs allowed. Actually we used
a message area, but the only public messages were mine, so all the traffic
from the players was private, and I could dictate what each character
heard and understood.




>


---------construction in progress-------------------
westec@******.com
TIP #1323 IPPA #A-0117 Lively #F188
---------construction in progress-------------------
Message no. 23
From: "DION C. CAUTRELL" <CAUTRELL@******.com>
Subject: Re: non-SR: school quality
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:13:23 -0500 (EST)
On Jan. 10 at 08:20:40, Robert Watkins wrote:
>novels. In, say, Hong Kong, it's a mixture of Japanese, Korean, English,
Canotonese>Cantonese, Manadarin, and various other Chinese dialects (say,
Hakka).)

If you're using Chinese dialects, do make the English sopoken there English
English or American English. After all, they're dialects, too.

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Thwap!