Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:46:50 PDT
>There was a few comments on the state of Scandinavia in 2050's.
>
>I'm just writing off the top of my head here, mind, but a few things
>I've given some thought to... um.. okay, here goes.
[Snip the meat]

>Hm, closing time.
>
>Okay, you guys ask questions or whatever, I gotta go.

Great post, Fade! As a "fan" of the historic Vikings much of this
was very intresting, and may be useful. Thanks! I really like the idea
of immortal nordic trolls(I may change it to Giants)<egmg>.
I have one question, but anyone can answer:
What exactly were the "Eurowars" I read so much about? What were the
wars about? Who were they with? And when did they happen? Finally, do
they go into detail in any Sourcebook?
Danke.

-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:42:38 +1200
Quoth The Vagabond (0747 29-4-98):

<<SLICE>>

Great post, Fade! As a "fan" of the historic Vikings much of
this
was very intresting, and may be useful. Thanks! I really like
the idea
of immortal nordic trolls(I may change it to Giants)<egmg>.
I have one question, but anyone can answer:
What exactly were the "Eurowars" I read so much about? What
were the
wars about? Who were they with? And when did they happen?
Finally, do
they go into detail in any Sourcebook?
Danke.

Okay, here it is (just off the top of my head):

<mini-lecture>
the EuroWars started in 2031, when the Russians tried to recapture their
lost empire (Eastern Europe mainly), to secure both their borders and
'vital interests' (mainly agricultural and mineral resources). They
rolled over Belarus without much effort, but bitter fighting ensued when
they crossed the borders of the NATO nations (including Poland). The
Americans (UCAS) refused to participate, leaving their European allies
to their own devices. The Russians made good initial progress, but a
stalemate rapidly developed as both sides were worn down by attrition.

In 2032, the Russians threw their elite airborne forces (husbanded until
now) into the fray, and again began advancing. Things looked bleak for
NATO - until somebody dealt a wild-card. In April 2033, a squadron of
British Aerospace FA-38 NightWraith attack fighters was picked up by
Swedish aerospace sensors. Originating near the UK, the bombers carried
out a lightning series of surgical strikes on the key C3
(Command-Control-Communications) sites of *both* sides, effectively
crippling the fighting capability of both. No-one ever claimed
responsibility for the raid (but I imagine there are pet theories; I
know *I* have one...). From there, the EuroWars became a stalemate: the
Russians kept trying to satisfy their dreams of empire, and the
Europeans kept expressing their opposition. Eventually, the fighting
petered out in 2041 or 2042, leaving the usual mess of smashed vehicles,
shattered countries and ruined lives behind.
</mini-lecture>

How's that for a soundbite history? (It's in the *And So It Came to
Pass* section of the BBB, too.)

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
Message no. 3
From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:34:23 -0400
> <mini-lecture>
> the EuroWars started in 2031, when the Russians tried to recapture their
> lost empire (Eastern Europe mainly), to secure both their borders and
> 'vital interests' (mainly agricultural and mineral resources). They
> rolled over Belarus without much effort, but bitter fighting ensued when
> they crossed the borders of the NATO nations (including Poland). The
> Americans (UCAS) refused to participate, leaving their European allies
> to their own devices. The Russians made good initial progress, but a
> stalemate rapidly developed as both sides were worn down by attrition.
>
> In 2032, the Russians threw their elite airborne forces (husbanded until
> now) into the fray, and again began advancing. Things looked bleak for
> NATO - until somebody dealt a wild-card. In April 2033, a squadron of
> British Aerospace FA-38 NightWraith attack fighters was picked up by
> Swedish aerospace sensors. Originating near the UK, the bombers carried
> out a lightning series of surgical strikes on the key C3
> (Command-Control-Communications) sites of *both* sides, effectively
> crippling the fighting capability of both. No-one ever claimed
> responsibility for the raid (but I imagine there are pet theories; I
> know *I* have one...). From there, the EuroWars became a stalemate: the
> Russians kept trying to satisfy their dreams of empire, and the
> Europeans kept expressing their opposition. Eventually, the fighting
> petered out in 2041 or 2042, leaving the usual mess of smashed vehicles,
> shattered countries and ruined lives behind.
> </mini-lecture>

Although I've heard the story before, it wasn't until I read that last line
when I realized exactly how similair the Eurowars were to the Great War with
a century and a quarter tacked on... only with Russia acting as the Triple
Entente (evil scum trying to gain an empire), Nato as the Triple Alliance
(lofty good guys, unable to repell the invaders, yet holding them off), and
the UK acting as the Americans (coming in from afar to end a long, bitter
war)
Any comments?
--
Stonebow
The principle feature of American liberalism is sanctimoniousness.
By loudly denouncing all bad things-war and hunger and date
rape-liberals testify to their own terrific goodness. More important,
they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite
of those who care deeply about such things. . . . It's a kind of
natural aristocracy, and the wonderful thing about this aristocracy
is that you don't have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky
to join it, you just have to be liberal.
--P. J. O'Rourke
bodiam@**********.com
http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/8427
Message no. 4
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:16:08 +1000
Geoff Morochnick writes:
>Although I've heard the story before, it wasn't until I read that last line
>when I realized exactly how similair the Eurowars were to the Great War
with
>a century and a quarter tacked on... only with Russia acting as the Triple
>Entente (evil scum trying to gain an empire), Nato as the Triple Alliance
>(lofty good guys, unable to repell the invaders, yet holding them off), and
>the UK acting as the Americans (coming in from afar to end a long, bitter
>war)
>Any comments?


You should have paid more attention to the dates... the surprise raid
happened in '33, but the war didn't end for another 8 years, with no
successful conclusion. It just petered out.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 5
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:42:16 +1200
Quoth Geoff Morochnick (1234 29-4-98):

<<SLICE my lecture>>

Although I've heard the story before, it wasn't until I read
that last line
when I realized exactly how similair the Eurowars were to the
Great War with
a century and a quarter tacked on... only with Russia acting as
the Triple
Entente (evil scum trying to gain an empire), Nato as the Triple
Alliance
(lofty good guys, unable to repell the invaders, yet holding
them off), and
the UK acting as the Americans (coming in from afar to end a
long, bitter
war)
Any comments?

Like somebody's sig said: 'Life ain't one thing after another. It's the
same damn thing over and over again.'

Your analogy's pretty good (and occurred to me even as I wrote it -ANZAC
Day and all that), but note the dates: The NightWraiths hit in 2033.
The fighting didn't stop until *eight years* later. The bombing raid
didn't 'rescue' anyone, or 'end a long, bloody war'; about all it did
was make sure that *nobody* could 'win'.

Who said anything about the *Brits* playing white knight? All we know
is that the bombers originated in the *area* of the UK. Of course, who
else is around there? Remember, the US got much of its current
world-leader status because it hadn't been bombed flat during Big
Mistake Number Two - they were the only ones left intact. Who would
profit from the rest of Europe smashing itself flat...?

(10 points to the first person to guess correctly.)

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
Message no. 6
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:06:39 -0500
----------
> From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
> Although I've heard the story before, it wasn't until I read that last
line
> when I realized exactly how similair the Eurowars were to the Great War
with
> a century and a quarter tacked on... only with Russia acting as the
Triple
> Entente (evil scum trying to gain an empire), Nato as the Triple
Alliance
> (lofty good guys, unable to repell the invaders, yet holding them off),
and
> the UK acting as the Americans (coming in from afar to end a long,
bitter
> war)
> Any comments?
Aside from the fact that you completely ignored the fact that no one was
even close to innocent in W.W.I? That most of the countries had been
dancing around war for years anyway? No, not really.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
Message no. 7
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:32:52 EDT
In a message dated 4/28/98 8:10:19 PM !!!First Boot!!!, nomad74@*******.COM
writes:

> What exactly were the "Eurowars" I read so much about? What were the
> wars about? Who were they with? And when did they happen? Finally, do
> they go into detail in any Sourcebook?

The Eurowars broke out in 2030 and lasted for roughly 12 years. It began when
Russia and it's 'Independent States began ducking it out (the IS's wanted true
independence). The battles then began spilling over into other countries in
both Asia and into Europe itself, falling along lines similar to Warsaw Pact
vs NATO, though a free-for-all at the same time. Wonderful for megacorp
business at the time.

There is information on this, albeit one paragraph on pp 28 of the BBB.

The Eurowars came to an almost grinding halt when a series of bomb raids by
unclaimed bombers knocked som sense into everybody. This was called the Night
of the Nightwraiths, and the exact identity of the bombers is still unknown.
It is known that aircraft with stealth from frag were used and the bombing was
extremely accurate. It is believed that the bombers were British, but even
though don't acknowledge it officially.

And read the entire section on The Superpowers, as this contains the
information on the Eurowars. There is some information in the Germany
sourcebook, but it does not do so in extreme detail.

Mike
Message no. 8
From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:22:16 -0400
Nexx wrote:

> ----------
> > From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
> > Although I've heard the story before, it wasn't until I read that last
> line
> > when I realized exactly how similair the Eurowars were to the Great War
> with
> > a century and a quarter tacked on... only with Russia acting as the
> Triple
> > Entente (evil scum trying to gain an empire), Nato as the Triple
> Alliance
> > (lofty good guys, unable to repell the invaders, yet holding them off),
> and
> > the UK acting as the Americans (coming in from afar to end a long,
> bitter
> > war)
> > Any comments?
> Aside from the fact that you completely ignored the fact that no one was
> even close to innocent in W.W.I? That most of the countries had been
> dancing around war for years anyway? No, not really.

I know no country was totally innocent (or guilty) in WWI (or WWII), I was just
comparing a few archetypes that showed up.

> Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
>

--
Stonebow
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other
bastard die for his.
-George Patton
bodiam@**********.com
http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/8427

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Nordic countries/Eurowars, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!