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Message no. 1
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Nordic countries/Eurowars (+1/2/3'rd world & more on trolls)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:34:02 +0000
Vagabond wrote:
> Great post, Fade! As a "fan" of the historic Vikings much of this
> was very intresting, and may be useful. Thanks! I really like the idea
> of immortal nordic trolls(I may change it to Giants)<egmg>.

Same thing... ;)
(Read the other post for a little on just that.).

What I want to write here is mostly how I used 'immortal trolls' in a
'slightly' alternate campaign for a while. One of my players
requested we returned to the alternate world soon.. we'll see.

The basis of the campaign was that the awakening didn't happen.
Instead, elves had always lived among humanity, using their illusions
and mind control spells to, hidden, leech off sociery. The 'dark'
races lived 'underground' - in an exiled metaplane. Not using (much)
technology, they were fire adepts and warriors. The orcs were young
trolls, while 'trolls' were coming of age.. the older they got, the
bigger and tougher they became, but only young ones were likely to go
into the world. The magic rules were changes slightly, with each of
the 'metahuman' races only having access to one of the types of
manipulation spells. Elves had thought manipulations, trollkind had
physical ones... dwarves, I hadn't found a good idea for.).

Translated to a more standard SR campaign, they'd be as ordinary orcs
or trolls. If you start with a troll (giant subtype, optionally) the
reduced mental attributes is *only* there for play balance - they
don't get stupider with age, rather the opposite, usually. Age
increases is simulated simply by increasing body and strength with
karma. Every six points of combined body and strength is one 'age
step'. (body incr. + str incr = 6). It can be increased way above
'racial max', but not too fast - it must correspond roughly with time
spent. Each age step gives a few bonuses.. step 1 (standard troll)
gives +1 reach, +1 dermal armor and thermographic vision. Higher
steps add 1 ballistic every other step, one impact each step, one
dermal armor every other step, one reach every three steps. Every two
steps (counting the first) also increases unarmed to physica damagel,
then increases base damage by one level. Damage increase is for
wielded weapons as well.

(Any steps higher than two should be highly unlikely for a PC to

If magically active, increasing an age step counts as an ordeal for
initiating. Like sharks they only grow bigger and meaner with age,
but as they reach a few thousand years of age they grow slightly
lethargic and hard to rouse.
Magically they have a talent in fire and physical or damaging
manipulation spells... best simulated by spell selection, but might
get a dice or two as a bonus, in return for lesser dice in healing.

> I have one question, but anyone can answer:
> What exactly were the "Eurowars" I read so much about? What were the
> wars about? Who were they with? And when did they happen? Finally, do
> they go into detail in any Sourcebook?
> Danke.

IIRC all I know about'em is in the timeline in the start of the BBB.
Basically, it was the traditional WWIII breaking out, but someone
blew up all the command centers - on both sides - and without
leadership the war stopped on its own.
(Sounds kinda strange, no?).

Otherwise it was a series of increasingly nationalistic wars,
typically between one or more of Spain, France, England, Germany,
Poland, Russia, Turkey or Italy... it was a period where there was
constantly at least one or two wars going on at the time, I'd say,
but I don't have the book here so I don't know when or anything
closer than that. It's more an 'impression' than actual facts.

It fits in with increasingly nationalistic tendencies, but on the
other hand it doesn't fit in at all with the current
military-political realities. A war between England and France today
is almost unthinkable... there's no longer anything to gain by
conventional war in the western world. On the other hand, England
and, in particular, France, can be very stubborn or fall to pride, so
it could be an escalating conflict for some reason or other, but
*NOT* a war of conquest.

A side note on the 1th - 2nd -3rd world issue.
The first world is comprised of highly industrialized, (democratic)
countries (Most NATO countries, Japan, etc). Areas with lots of
tertiary industry and high-tech secondary industry.

The second world is countries with some industrialization and wealth,
usually not strongly democratic, usually with an abundance of
resources. Middle east, some areas in eastern or southern europe,
some other areas). Lotech secondary industry primarily.

The third world is countries whose sole income is resources, usually
primary industry almost exclusively. Also called developing

One of the problems of areas like Germany, Norway etcetera is that
the industry which got them into the 'first world' - lotech secondary
- is considered the 'strong traditional industry', and they spend a
lot to remain competitive in it, even though second world countries
is better able to compete at that level.

(In case you're not used to the terms - primary industry is
agriculture, lotech secondary is resource - intensive industry,
hitech is knowledge - intensive industry, tertiary is services.).


And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Nordic countries/Eurowars (+1/2/3'rd world & more on trolls), you may also be interested in:


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