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Message no. 1
From: Eric Klein <eklein@****.ORG>
Subject: 'nother Question
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 18:38:51 -0700
Alright, I liked the answers to the leadership question so much, I though
that I just might toss out another question for ya'll...

Here is the situation, my dwarven mage (very low powered) has an average
body attribute gor a dwarf (4), and about the same for strength. He has a
armed combar skill of 1 (sword 3(katana 4)), and no unarmed combat skill. He
has only one combat spell (not really his area of specialty) and that is the
end all area affect killer Hellblast (not good for normal combat). (What do
you expect he is a college student after all... :)

As you might surmise, he isn't too hot at combat (B&E is another story though :)
He does have one hope though: he has the spell (Tiger)form. He often uses
this spell to turn into a tiger durring combat, and wipe out the competition.

So here is the question, concerning (Critter)form. It says that any
non-paranormal animal is fair game, but where do all of you draw the line?
How about mass considerations? (I have heard some fairly silly siggestions
for the spell, such as Tyranosaurus Rex). Does this also hold for water?
Could he turn himself into a Blue Whale (I wouldn't, I'm just throwing out
an extreme)?

Well, go to it...
* Eric Klein | "Paranoia is just knowing all
* eklein@****.org | the facts."
* http://www.rain.org/~eklein | -William S. Burroughs
* GCS/SSd---(-)-p+c++l+u+e+(*)m+s++/-n-h+(*)f+!gw+@*+@*+(++)y?
Message no. 2
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: 'nother Question
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 23:46:58 -0400
On Wed, 21 Jun 1995, Eric Klein wrote:

> Alright, I liked the answers to the leadership question so much, I though
> that I just might toss out another question for ya'll...
>
> So here is the question, concerning (Critter)form. It says that any
> non-paranormal animal is fair game, but where do all of you draw the line?
> How about mass considerations? (I have heard some fairly silly siggestions
> for the spell, such as Tyranosaurus Rex). Does this also hold for water?
> Could he turn himself into a Blue Whale (I wouldn't, I'm just throwing out
> an extreme)?

The "ruling" on that, coming from KAGE, is that you may not
shapechange in something that has a greater that 2 point of difference in
body. I.e. if you have body 4, nothing less than Bod 2 or more than bod
6. I did not like this idea so here is my house rule. Before a magician
can begin to increase the critter's attributes, he must make up for the
difference in mass. That 1 point countered for each 2 success. I.E. if
you have 4 body and want to change into something with 6 body, you need 4
success just to be able to do it. Afterward treat remaining successes as
per the normal spell. I think it works well, saying that some "power"
must be used to compress/expand the base matter.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Tim Serpas <wretch@**.COM>
Subject: Re: 'nother Question
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 23:34:39 -0500
On Wed, 21 Jun 1995, Eric Klein wrote:
> So here is the question, concerning (Critter)form. It says that any
> non-paranormal animal is fair game, but where do all of you draw the line?
>
To keep things simple, we've always said that it had to be a creature
from the critters table in the main book. Pretty wide range, really.
I wasn't there at the time, but my compadres were facing a vampire with
a hostage on the roof of a building. Edge levitated up there (quickened)
and turned the hostage into an elephant. The GM says that the vamp
didn't really have any trouble holding her, but it sure changed the
tactical situation.

The problem with casting (critter) form and cleaning up (besides not
having any armor) is that you'll be at plus 2s for maintaining the
spell. Not too usefull IMO.

I once had an idea for a character whose only motivation was to
initiate, go out to the docks, quicken a shapechange spell on himself,
turn into a shark and disappear forever! It would really freak out
the team, doncha think?

Tim Serpas :Geek Code v.2.1: GS d- H++>+++ s:- !g p1 auVW a- w+ v+ C+
BS Physics : U P? !L !3 E---- N++ K++ W M- !V -po+ Y+>++ t+ !5 j+>$
wretch@**.com: R+ G'' tv+>! b+>++ D+ B-- e++>-- u+ h- f+>* r++ n+ y+
Message no. 4
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: 'nother Question
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 11:36:41 GMT
Tim Serpas writes

> On Wed, 21 Jun 1995, Eric Klein wrote:
> > So here is the question, concerning (Critter)form. It says that any
> > non-paranormal animal is fair game, but where do all of you draw the line?
> >
GM discretion but a 'spare' T-rex is liable to attract attention!!
and you need quite a depth of water for Whales and similar marine
animals to float.

> The problem with casting (critter) form and cleaning up (besides not
> having any armor) is that you'll be at plus 2s for maintaining the
> spell. Not too usefull IMO.
>
These spells don't tend to transform equipment which means the unless
you wish to either destroy your cloathes(if enlarging) or get buried
(if shrinking) you have to spend time removing them first. Never mind
the fun these characters running about in 'birthday suits' can cause
them. And yes 2nded SR without armour is very very deadly if your
opponent has any ammount of skill and is not using a pea shooter.

> Tim Serpas :Geek Code v.2.1: GS d- H++>+++ s:- !g p1 auVW a- w+
v+ C+ >
Message no. 5
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: 'nother Question
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 15:08:24 -0400
On Wed, 21 Jun 1995, Menard Steve wrote: (a great idea for shapechange
limitations)

I like this. It makes those annoying transformation
manipulations a little bit more reasonable.

Marc
Message no. 6
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: 'nother Question
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 1995 16:24:28 +0200
> So here is the question, concerning (Critter)form. It says that any
> non-paranormal animal is fair game, but where do all of you draw the line?
> How about mass considerations? (I have heard some fairly silly siggestions
> for the spell, such as Tyranosaurus Rex). Does this also hold for water?

I generally rule that only "real" (existing) animals can be copied by
such spells. This eliminates the Tyranosaurus Rex problem. If you want to
get tougher on the players you can always demand that they transform into
animals they have witnesed (ascenced maybe) first hand.

> Could he turn himself into a Blue Whale (I wouldn't, I'm just throwing out
> an extreme)?

Believe it or not, I have done this once :) It was however the suggestion of
the GM and It got us out of a very tight spot. We were on an island with no
means of escape and some sort of explosion/katastrophe/really bad thing was
going to happen :)

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 7
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: 'nother Question
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 11:46:06 -0400
> > So here is the question, concerning (Critter)form. It says that any
> > non-paranormal animal is fair game, but where do all of you draw the line?
> > How about mass considerations? (I have heard some fairly silly siggestions
> > for the spell, such as Tyranosaurus Rex). Does this also hold for water?
>
> I generally rule that only "real" (existing) animals can be copied by
> such spells. This eliminates the Tyranosaurus Rex problem. If you want to
> get tougher on the players you can always demand that they transform into
> animals they have witnesed (ascenced maybe) first hand.

Or, as an alternative, you could require the spellcaster to have a sample
of the animal as a material component for the spell. To me this makes
sense, as the spell would use the DNA from the sample to figure out the
physical structure of the transformation. If you fear your players pulling
a Jurassic Park and digging up dinosaur DNA, you could require them to have
sizable samples, or throw in modifiers for the age or discreteness of their
sample. (I.e., if they come up with T.Rex blood from a mosquito trapped in
amber, they may end up becoming the mosquito, or the tree that created the
amber..) >8-> Whether or not the animal sample needs to be enchanted as a
fetish is at the discretion of the GM, and how difficult he wants it to be
for the players to use this spell. I personally am in favor of making 'em
work for it.

To further prevent illogic and abuse of this spell, I'd add a +1 TN modifier
for every 50% body weight change, added cumulatively. (E.g., a mage
turning into a dog that was 25% his body weight would have a +2 penalty.)
This is simply conservation of magical energy.. To create mass differences
you're creating mass from mana and turning mass back into mana, and that
takes effort. Turning someone into a frog would be very difficult; turning
someone into a T.Rex would be ludicrous. The one exception to this rule
would be shamans taking their totem form.. In a case like that I'd give
it a normal roll regardless of mass, and say that the Totem herself provides
the energy.


> > Could he turn himself into a Blue Whale (I wouldn't, I'm just throwing out
> > an extreme)?
>
> Believe it or not, I have done this once :) It was however the suggestion of
> the GM and It got us out of a very tight spot. We were on an island with no
> means of escape and some sort of explosion/katastrophe/really bad thing was
> going to happen :)

And so you transformed the whole team into blue whales? I don't believe it.
If you're telling the truth (and I doubt it), then your GM wasn't following
any sort of rules about spellcasting.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Heathen: A benighted creature who has the
My opinions are my opinions. | ignorance to worship something that he can
Please don't blame anyone else. | see and feel." _The Devil's Dictionary_
Message no. 8
From: SilverFire <SSHERMAN@****.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: 'nother Question
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 14:30:26 -0500
On Sun, 25 Jun 1995, S.F. Eley wrote:

> > > So here is the question, concerning (Critter)form. It says that any
> > > non-paranormal animal is fair game, but where do all of you draw the line?
> > > How about mass considerations? (I have heard some fairly silly siggestions
> > > for the spell, such as Tyranosaurus Rex). Does this also hold for water?

What my GM does with spells like, transform, shapechange, and
critter form is the following: the spellcaster has to know what the
creature looks like, it can't be a paranormal, and it can only be +/- 2
of the targets Body attribute and depending on what Bio-/Cyberware you
have that adds to your Body will affect the spell. i.e. My street sam with
natural body 6 (7 after suprathyroid gland) can be turned into a very large
dog or one of the wild cats, etc., as long as the critter fell into 5-9
body category. She couldn't be made into anything that was the size of a
house cat, because of too much mass (her own) or anything like an Orca,
not enough mass.
Hope I was helpful.


SilverFire

*******************************************************************************
Love could be so damn resilient, or it could be as fragile as glass. And like
broken glass, it could cut you so you bled to death. Love could be so damn
resilient.
Where does reality end and illusion begin?

Mary Rosenbaum
_Chimera_
Message no. 9
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: 'nother Question
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 10:57:07 +0200
> > I generally rule that only "real" (existing) animals can be copied
by
> > such spells. This eliminates the Tyranosaurus Rex problem. If you want to
> > get tougher on the players you can always demand that they transform into
> > animals they have witnesed (ascenced maybe) first hand.

[MUNCH] [Alternative Solution involving DNA samples] [MUNCH]

Naaa, a bit too complicated for my tastes.

> > > Could he turn himself into a Blue Whale (I wouldn't, I'm just throwing out
> > > an extreme)?
> >
> > Believe it or not, I have done this once :) It was however the suggestion of
> > the GM and It got us out of a very tight spot. We were on an island with no
> > means of escape and some sort of explosion/katastrophe/really bad thing was
> > going to happen :)
>
> And so you transformed the whole team into blue whales? I don't believe it.
> If you're telling the truth (and I doubt it), then your GM wasn't following
> any sort of rules about spellcasting.

No, I shapechanged myself into a blue whale and carried the others away :)
As for casting multiple shapechange spells, well I theoretically dont
see why it shouldnr work ? You could even cast them all together using
stacking.

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)

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