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Message no. 1
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:42:21 -0400 (EDT)
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At 10:07 AM 8/25/99 +0200, Bruce wrote:
:>> Do you guys allow your deckers to build their decks?
:>Well..normally deckers are NPCs..But sure
:
:Here it is again. I wonder how FASA feels having spent years and
:breaking their necks to put together the only semi decent cyberspace
: rules in the RPG industry and we relegate them to NPC status. What
:a pity. Thats like making mages NPC because "they use up too much
:time, always in the Astral"

Sure mages go on the Astral, which requires the same kind of GM to
Player one-on-one interaction that deckers require, but mages also
have lots of mage-specific things they can do that don't require the
GM's 100% attention. They can cast spells, they can use their
spirits, and so on.

Deckers however are more limited. Unless you get hyper-creative,
nearly all the decker-specific activities require that one-on-one.
When they're not jacked in, the decker is relegated to doing the
generic tasks that really anyone on the team can take care of, like
using electronics skill to pick locks, negotiating with the Johnson,
pulling a gun and shooting people and so on.

While a decker might be good at some of these auxiliary tasks, and
possibly better than anyone else on the team, they're not dependent
on the character being a decker. Decker players have to strike a
delicate balance: if they focus on trying to be the best decker they
can be, they're not as effective in the meat world.

A large part of the problem comes from the fact that a decking
requires either a connection to the telecommunications grid or
internal network the target host is on, or a bulky satlink dish. The
decker either needs to remain stationary, or tap out a series of
connections as the team moves from location to location. It would be
nice if deckers were allowed to use some form of wireless
communication.

The other big part of the problem, a decker needs to drop into an
immersive VR simulation to do anything on the matrix. While normally,
this is a good thing, it'd be nice if they could do some stuff
without having to go into their own little world all the time. Really
clever use of smartframes can help with this some, but that's not the
easiest decker trick in the book to pull off.

Because of these two issues, a PC Decker usually gets stuck with the
feeling of "just being along for the ride" during a high action run.
They'll probably be contributing to what the team is doing, but they
don't get many real chances to be the shining star of the team. The
other character types will be dominant in the activity that goes on
in the meat world such as combat, and when the decker does get a
chance to go for the glory, none of the other players get to
interact.

Is it any wonder why even the players who think decking is cool and
the matrix rules are spectacular don't usually play deckers, and GMs
get in the habit of using NPC deckers?

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
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Message no. 2
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:09:33 EDT
In a message dated 8/25/99 12:43:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
runnerpaul@*****.com writes:

> Deckers however are more limited. Unless you get hyper-creative,
> nearly all the decker-specific activities require that one-on-one.
> When they're not jacked in, the decker is relegated to doing the
> generic tasks that really anyone on the team can take care of, like
> using electronics skill to pick locks, negotiating with the Johnson,
> pulling a gun and shooting people and so on.

In the game I play in, I actually play two PCs; a shaman and an otaku (a
gnome otaku :-)
The otaku is not really very center stage, while the shaman is more
violent/flamboyant/look-at-me-while-my-spirits-rip-apart-the-bastard-fixer-tha
t-betrayed-us,
The otaku has such high mental attributes (I min-maxed him fairly decent
:-) and a photgraphic memory, he is a portable information source. in game I
will have him start to accumulate as much knowledge as he can.
Running the matrix takes time, so we do it on a seperate night (we play
online) but right now he can't find a jackpoint becuase of the EGM.
All in all, he is a fun character to play, though his gun skills are
non-existant (no skill, quickness of 1 <shrug>) and he has few other skills
right now. He will become a nice little walking computer :-)
Message no. 3
From: Caxal Balam arkainer@*****.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:46:07 -0500 (CDT)
>
> Sure mages go on the Astral, which requires the same
> kind of GM to
> Player one-on-one interaction that deckers require,
> but mages also
> have lots of mage-specific things they can do that
> don't require the
> GM's 100% attention. They can cast spells, they can
> use their
> spirits, and so on.

Wrong, remember that each action in real world its one action in the
Matrix, so sometimes you are about to hack a data heaven for some hot
info while the rest of the troupe fights to give you a few more
seconds. So you must roll your initiative in the same time as your
buddies and see how well it will be.

In this kind of situations my GM swaps in my turn of initiative as well
as in the rest of the party, so the Gm doesnt gives me a his whole
attention.


> Deckers however are more limited. Unless you get
> hyper-creative,
> nearly all the decker-specific activities require
> that one-on-one.
> When they're not jacked in, the decker is relegated
> to doing the
> generic tasks that really anyone on the team can
> take care of, like
> using electronics skill to pick locks, negotiating
> with the Johnson,
> pulling a gun and shooting people and so on.

Ok, what are the relegated activities? Every activity its just as
important as the other. I dont care if you could hit the ass of a fly
from a 100 yards if you cant finish the deal with Johnson just because
you couldnt enter a place in a "silent mode" (I dont care I just blew
up the lock), remember: Ignorance can kill you faster than a Fireball.
And the deckers got all the info.

> While a decker might be good at some of these
> auxiliary tasks, and
> possibly better than anyone else on the team,
> they're not dependent
> on the character being a decker. Decker players have
> to strike a
> delicate balance: if they focus on trying to be the
> best decker they
> can be, they're not as effective in the meat world.

No way, the only thing a decker needs its a Datajack, a fair computer
skill thats it (mainly), so you could give him a Booster Reflexes just
in case, a good Athletics, a hell of Negotiations, and a fair Pistols
and you got a really nice Semi Street Sam how can be just as deadly as
any recently new char.


A large part of the problem comes from the fact that
> a decking
> requires either a connection to the
> telecommunications grid or
> internal network the target host is on, or a bulky
> satlink dish. The
> decker either needs to remain stationary, or tap out
> a series of
> connections as the team moves from location to
> location. It would be
> nice if deckers were allowed to use some form of
> wireless
> communication.

Ok, what about the cell phones?, adn remember this is 2056 theres a
Telcom almost every corner. And with the VR2 rules you can deck even
while you are in a fight (with a lot of penalties but well). What do
you expect a semi-autonomous robot that can shoot, break into Ares
Matrix and throw a Fireball?
>
> The other big part of the problem, a decker needs to
> drop into an
> immersive VR simulation to do anything on the
> matrix. While normally,
> this is a good thing, it'd be nice if they could do
> some stuff
> without having to go into their own little world all
> the time. Really
> clever use of smartframes can help with this some,
> but that's not the
> easiest decker trick in the book to pull off.

Come on... ok its hard to deck and see the real world at the same time,
but thats part of the cool thing in a decker you could enter get the
info and run. But a really good decker its not just the get the info,
its the planning of strategies, get the flaws of the Co., and with the
help of the Rigger getting you out of the Co. with you pants still on.
So having a decker in a troupe its a MUST if you are running any
mission... If its just a munching, forgot it get yourself a Vampire
almost inmmortal street sam and go...

>
> Because of these two issues, a PC Decker usually
> gets stuck with the
> feeling of "just being along for the ride" during a
> high action run.
> They'll probably be contributing to what the team is
> doing, but they
> don't get many real chances to be the shining star
> of the team. The
> other character types will be dominant in the
> activity that goes on
> in the meat world such as combat, and when the
> decker does get a
> chance to go for the glory, none of the other
> players get to
> interact.

Ok, my actual char its a decker with two cyberarms, one with his deck
and the other with some gadgets. His an expert in infiltrations and
security, so because his the decker he gets all the info on the Co. and
plans the infitration of all the troupe he is in the lead of what to do
and when to do it. So in a few words he runs the show before, while and
after the run. He gets in, decks inside, and comes out... simple

So who the hell cares about combat if thats the part you dont want to
confront (I still dont know a runner who likes to be in the middle of a
gunfight with Lone Star cops just for the fun...) Besides while you are
in the matrix there are some stuff called "Hikerjacks" that lets anyone
to see what are you doing in the matrix

>
> Is it any wonder why even the players who think
> decking is cool and
> the matrix rules are spectacular don't usually play
> deckers, and GMs
> get in the habit of using NPC deckers?

I would reconsider that part...
==------------------------------------------------------------
Caxal Balam
The Roar of the Jaguar
"That's the things were and that's the things are"
___________________________________________________
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Message no. 4
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:12:35 -0400
At 12.42 08-25-99 -0400, you wrote:
>Deckers however are more limited. Unless you get hyper-creative,
>nearly all the decker-specific activities require that one-on-one.

I don't think that this idea is overly creative, but what about a combat
decker. Basically, they are a decker, but thier main role is field
support- C^4I (especially if they work with a rigger), electronic warfare,
security countermeasures, and electronic sabotage- but they are also
capable of defending themselves (Firearms 4 (for SR3, Pistol 3 and either
SMG or Shotgun at 4), Unarmed and Armed at 3, Smartlink, low-lite and/or
thermal, maybe WR1) and thusly equipped (armour jacket, a pistol, an SMG or
shotty, maybe a knife or a hold-out with a muzzle can, and an armoured case
for thier deck with bypass jacks in the case).
Basaically, a leathal geek. Thier primary role is electronics, but when
it comes time to kick in the door and there is no need for jamming and
having a freq jockey riding your comnet, he's ready to make someone's life
real miserable.

I may be able to get an SR2-level archtype up to my page by Christmas. If
you are looking for something to base it off of, I have combat rigger up.
Pull out the vehilces for a low-end deck, and most of the vehilce skills
with computer related ones, and you have a fairly good start.
www.xoom.com/iron_raven/shadowrun/comrig.html

>possibly better than anyone else on the team, they're not dependent
>on the character being a decker. Decker players have to strike a
>delicate balance: if they focus on trying to be the best decker they

There is a way to do this- activesofts!

>internal network the target host is on, or a bulky satlink dish. The

Is there any stats for field dishes? The ones that US SOForces were using
10-15 years ago fit into the equivelent amount of space as two coffee cans
stakced atop eachother.
With the Iridium system, you can get it almost as small as a cell phone.

>nice if deckers were allowed to use some form of wireless
>communication.

How about a laser pulse or microwave system? Under perfect conditions,
they are as effective as a satlink for LOS work. Maybe have something
where the decker has to worry about jamming doing more than just
disconnecting him. (I use a varient of Gibson's theory, whereby the Matrix
is a real for a decker as the Astral is for a mage, and you can get part of
your brain stuck in there if you aren't carefull. That isn't widely know,
but it does occasionally happen, and makes for an interesting Black IC
effect- "Roll 2D6... Oh, shit, a 12... Roll me a D20... Ewww, it
reformats the vision center of your brain.")


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 5
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:15:22 -0400
At 12.46 08-25-99 -0500, you wrote:
>Wrong, remember that each action in real world its one action in the
>Matrix, so sometimes you are about to hack a data heaven for some hot

Yep-

<Decker, over a cybercom> "Damn, this thing is big- I'm going to need at
least three mins to grab it!"
<Team leader> "'Damn' is right. Micky, Shane- cover the front office!
Don, rig those claymores, then cover our back door! Jimmy, it's going to
be tight, can you still see the patrols on thermal? Kell, be ready to set
off that distraction!" <checks his weapon one last time and kneels between
the door and the decker, hoping that his armour will give the decker enough
cover once the shooting starts.>
(Micky the Finn is a nordic physad and a follower of shark. Shane is a
street scamurai. Don is a demo specialist. Jimmy is our rigger, and is
riding a Condor for recon and has a loaned, armed Dalmation orbiting at
three klicks for aircover during egress. Kelly is a merc, covering Jimmy
and our redevous point with a sniper rifle, the controls for pyrotechnic
charges, and a cell phone with the number for the beeper we had given to
the head of the biker group we were paying good money to make a disturbance
on the opposite side of the compound than our egress point. Penetration was
flawless, but the guards are ETA 145 seconds and the pre-mission data
indicated that we would only need 60 secs to copy it from the isolated
network it was on once we had compromised it. We are going to be at least
35 seconds short, and that is more than enough time to die!)


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 6
From: Sue Bradley subradly@******.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:02:18 -0500
>Shane is a street scamurai.
^^^^^^^^

Kevin, I gather from repeated posts with this particular misspelling that
you dislike sammies. It would help my interpretation of your posts to know
why you feel that you have to cop this particular attitude.

Patrick
Message no. 7
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:39:00 -0500
From: Sue Bradley <subradly@******.net>

Oooops. Suffering, currently, from a system malfunction and using Mom's
machine; forgot which mailer I was in. Sorry for any confusion.

Patrick
Message no. 8
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:28:04 -0400 (EDT)
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Let me preface this with a disclaimer: I love deckers. I love the
matrix rules as they stand now, especially compared to what came
before in SR1 and VR1. I know how important deckers are to any runner
team, and how important they are to 205X-206X society in general.

The whole reason I started this thread was because someone expressed
distress at how many GMs on the list here use NPCs for the team's
decker. He said it was like making the team's mage an NPC because
they spend so much time on the astral. I merely wanted to point out
why I think so many deckers do get the NPC treatment.

At 12:46 PM 8/25/99 -0500, Caxal Balam wrote:
::Sure mages go on the Astral, which requires the same kind of GM to
::Player one-on-one interaction that deckers require, but mages also
::have lots of mage-specific things they can do that don't require
::the GM's 100% attention.
:
:Wrong, remember that each action in real world its one action in the
:Matrix,
<<Snip>>
:So you must roll your initiative in the same time as your
:buddies and see how well it will be.
:
:In this kind of situations my GM swaps in my turn of initiative as
:well as in the rest of the party, so the Gm doesnt gives me a his
:whole attention.

I concede that the phrase "require the GM's 100% attention" is a poor
choice of words that doesn't describe the situation properly.

However, decking (and astral projection too, generally) is still
essentially a one-on-one interaction between player and GM. Short of
guarding the decker's meatbod, keeping harm at bay, there is nothing
that the other PCs can do to help the decker. The players can only
sit back and watch passively while things are going on in an entire
other world from the one their own characters are in, no chance for
interaction.

This is true not only when the GM pulls the decker aside for a
"side-session" but also true when the GM handles the decker's combat
turns the same time as everyone elses. When decking becomes involved,
the game's focus is suddenly divided between two separate and
independent worlds, even if you handle it on a timesharing basis
during the same combat turn.

::When they're not jacked in, the decker is relegated to doing the
::generic tasks that really anyone on the team can take care of.
:
:Ok, what are the relegated activities? Every activity its just as
:important as the other.

I'm not saying that these sorts of activities aren't mission
critical. Negotiation, electronic lockpicking, pre-run research,
on-the-spot tactical planning, and even seduction are all valid
activities that are highly important in many runs. However, they're
generic activities, in that any member of the team can learn how to
do them. There's nothing inherently "decker" about them.

::While a decker might be good at some of these auxiliary tasks, and
::possibly better than anyone else on the team, they're not dependent
:: on the character being a decker. Decker players have to strike a
::delicate balance: if they focus on trying to be the best decker
::they can be, they're not as effective in the meat world.
:
:No way, the only thing a decker needs its a Datajack, a fair
:computer skill thats it (mainly), so you could give him a Booster
:Reflexes just in case, a good Athletics, a hell of Negotiations,
:and a fair Pistols and you got a really nice Semi Street Sam how
:can be just as deadly as any recently new char.

Only the datajack and a fair computer skill? What about the
cyberdeck, and the programs you run on it?
Those cost nuyen, and the better ones cost lots of nuyen. Take a high
nuyen amount at chargen to buy decker necessities and combat
cyberware, and you've limited yourself in how good your starting
attributes are, and how many skills you can take (especially under
SR3 where the skills can cost more if you have low attributes),
especially if you're also playing a metahuman decker.

It is something to work for as character development, I suppose.

::It would be nice if deckers were allowed to use some form of
::wireless communication.
:
:Ok, what about the cell phones?

What about cell phones?
p.287, BBB3
"Decking cannot be done over cellular frequencies."

Easy enough to houserule around, but houserules vary from GM to GM.
As published, the only wireless form of decking available is satlink,
with that several kilogram half-meter dish you have to line up.


::The other big part of the problem, a decker needs to drop into an
::immersive VR simulation to do anything on the matrix. While
::normally, this is a good thing, it'd be nice if they could do some
::stuff without having to go into their own little world all the
::time.
:
:Come on... ok its hard to deck and see the real world at the same
:time, but thats part of the cool thing in a decker you could enter
:get the info and run.

IMO, the reason deckers get pigeonholed into NPC status so much, is
that they have to go off into their own little world to "do their
thing". Compare this to mages. A mage can still do plenty of
mage-specific stuff in the meatworld, they don't have to go on a
metaplanar quest every time they want to cast a spell.


:Besides while you are in the matrix there are some stuff called
:"Hikerjacks" that lets anyone to see what are you doing in the
:matrix

Hitcherjacks, vidscreens, or even just letting the other players
listen in and trust them to keep player knowledge separate from
character knowledge all suffer from the same general problem. A
matrix run provides no good chance for the other players to interact
with the situation. No matter how compelling a story the GM can
develop for what's happening in the matrix, everyone but the decker
have to sit back and just watch.


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--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

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Message no. 9
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:46:35 -0400
At 19.02 08-25-99 -0500, you wrote:
>>Shane is a street scamurai.
>Kevin, I gather from repeated posts with this particular misspelling that

Easy- I've yet to see one played in a manner that was worthy of the title.
The only titles that get abused more are those accosiated with the ninja,
and the special operations community.
If you are going to play a samurai, at least learn the basics of Bushido.
What I see, time and again, is someone who is either a former gang member
or ex-special operations, either military or intelligence (if you are going
to tell me, as a GM, you are an ex-Ranger, don't look at me like I'm crazy
when I hand you a copy of the Ranger Creed, as a case in point), and all
are lacking in anything that smells remotely of honor.
Did the samurai live totally to the code of Bushido? Damned few, if the
records are correct, same as the European knights and the Code of Chivelry.
You can call yourself a samurai or a knight, but don't get your codpiece
in a knot when I explain why I occasinally snort when you call your
character that.

If I was to see one who played by someone who did even an hour's research
into Bushido, and maybe watched Shogun and took some notes, or the Seven
Samurai and chuckled a lot but still got the point (hey, I'd even settle of
the Magnificant Seven some days), I would call them a "samurai". Until
then, I'll have a snicker in the back of my head everytime I hear it.
Is it a personal prejudice? Yes, same as the one that cuases me to make a
distinction between shadowrunners and mercenaries. I don't use it place
PCs at a disadvantage, and not every Johnson has it, but when Mr J is from
a big Japanese concern, he'll have this funny grin on his face when he
calls you a "sam". It comes from the fact that I have spent, excluding
college, my entire life around professionals in the military and
intelligence trades, so I (a) try to help without truamatizing, or creating
safety/security risks, to guide RPG groups in thier operations, (b) a
number of my PCs are fairly gung-ho and act as advisors to the group, and
(c) as a GM, I bend over backwards to let them survive tactical situations
that they placed themselves into, where they would be cut to ribbons if the
GOD was not merciful.
But I won't take back the fact that I have yet to be able to take any of
the PCs created outside of my group at home (mostly family) seriously when
they say they are a "samurai" or a "ninja" or a "SEAL" or a
"Green Beret"
(it's a blasted hat!) or an "NSA agent" or any of the same. That would be
like having an MD for a GM and saying your PC is a former doctor. He might
smile every once in a while, but so long as you do some research, he won't
get nasty. But if you (in character) say something grand and totally
bogus, he is going to laugh. Make a habit of it, and you get nasty becuase
of his reaction, then he will return the attitude.
If "sams" want to call themselves contractors, fine. If they can be
played professionally (if you want to make me a happy GM, read FoF and read
it well), I won't cringe when they refeer to themselves as mercs. But if
you can't even tell me a single aspect of Bushido, and you act as a bandit
(or worse), I will add a "c" to my spelling of "samurai", and vocally
pronounce it as an "s" for politeness. (Kinda like spelling "sir",
"c-u-r". Sounds the same, but it doesn't mean the same thing.)

People think the toys and the clothes make the man. They don't.
Others think thier skills define what they are. Only partially.
The real test, in my eyes, is what you've done, how you've done it, and
why you did it the way that you did.




Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 10
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:14:42 -0400 (EDT)
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At 05:12 PM 8/25/99 -0400, IronRaven wrote:
:Is there any stats for field dishes?

Portable dishes come in a 1 meter diamater size at 8 kilos, or a half
meter size for 5 kilos. Temporary dishes can be manufactured out of
spray polymer and plastic webbing. The electronics for a temporary
dish weigh 3 kilos and can fit in a box thats 50cm X 25cm X 25cm.
Base time to align the dish is 3 minutes.

:>nice if deckers were allowed to use some form of wireless
:>communication.
:
:How about a laser pulse or microwave system? Under perfect
:conditions, they are as effective as a satlink for LOS work.

Nice ideas. For my own houserule, I've adapted the rules for rigger
remote control decks. I just wonder what FASA has against wireless
decking.

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PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
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Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com
Message no. 11
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:48:09 -0400
<snipperoo>
>
> People think the toys and the clothes make the man. They don't.
> Others think thier skills define what they are. Only partially.
> The real test, in my eyes, is what you've done, how you've done it,
and
>why you did it the way that you did.


<CLAPS!>

I agree with 100% on that street samurai thing, by the way. I've had
players like that, calling themselves street sams when they just want
to kill as many things as possible. If they're not munchkins, I call
them combat bunnies or red shirts.

-----
AK404

http://freespeech.org/ak404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"You fool, pain is my friend! Allow me to introduce you to him!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!"
Message no. 12
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 01:41:21 -0400
IronRaven wrote:

> <SNIP>

> (if you are going to tell me, as a GM, you are an ex-Ranger, don't look at me like
> I'm crazy
> when I hand you a copy of the Ranger Creed, as a case in point), and all
> are lacking in anything that smells remotely of honor.
> <SNIP>

Is that available online, and if not, could you email it to me privately? I have a
character I'd like to say was a former Ranger, and I'd like to do it
semi-professionally ;^).

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M-
Message no. 13
From: Bruce gyro@********.co.za
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:58:55 +0200
From: runnerpaul@*****.com <runnerpaul@*****.com>
Date: 26 August 1999 04:47
Subject: Re: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]


>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Let me preface this with a disclaimer: I love deckers. I love the
>matrix rules as they stand now, especially compared to what came
>before in SR1 and VR1. I know how important deckers are to any runner
>team, and how important they are to 205X-206X society in general.

It's pity that many of us that love this game gloss over this
character type.

>The whole reason I started this thread was because someone expressed
>distress at how many GMs on the list here use NPCs for the team's
>decker. He said it was like making the team's mage an NPC because
>they spend so much time on the astral. I merely wanted to point out
>why I think so many deckers do get the NPC treatment.

That would be me :) The mage example was poor I admit.
<snip>
>However, decking (and astral projection too, generally) is still
>essentially a one-on-one interaction between player and GM. Short of
>guarding the decker's meatbod, keeping harm at bay, there is nothing
>that the other PCs can do to help the decker. The players can only
>sit back and watch passively while things are going on in an entire
>other world from the one their own characters are in, no chance for
>interaction.

What about setting up a secure location for the satlink to go from?
The other team members may have to sit around a bit, but that does not
preclude them from roleplaying among themselves, discussing the
current mission or swapping stories about their weekends or previous
missions or whatever. When the corp response team comes over
the rise, they'll be plenty busy. :)

<snip>
<snip some more>

>Only the datajack and a fair computer skill? What about the
>cyberdeck, and the programs you run on it?
>Those cost nuyen, and the better ones cost lots of nuyen. Take a high
>nuyen amount at chargen to buy decker necessities and combat
>cyberware, and you've limited yourself in how good your starting
>attributes are, and how many skills you can take (especially under
>SR3 where the skills can cost more if you have low attributes),
>especially if you're also playing a metahuman decker.
>
>It is something to work for as character development, I suppose.

Agreed here. I feel that we can make a difference here by pointing
out the good parts of having a decker PC in the group. If all the
players and the GM make an efort there is no reason why the decker
should slow things down. The emphasis is on the player to know what
he wants to do, know the rules WELL, and have the appropriate dice
in hand at the time they are needed. This speeds things up, I assure
you.

<snip wireless>
<snip immersiveness>

>IMO, the reason deckers get pigeonholed into NPC status so much, is
>that they have to go off into their own little world to "do their
>thing". Compare this to mages. A mage can still do plenty of
>mage-specific stuff in the meatworld, they don't have to go on a
>metaplanar quest every time they want to cast a spell.

I dont ask deckers to make runs on a regular basis. A really
intense Matrix run does NOT occur every session. The deckers
functions of inpho gathering can be handled by smart frames and other
goodies. Not every function of the decker has to do with Black IC and
Red Host loaded for bear. Intruding into a corp, org. crime or .mil
host is
a major risk and the same way that the group does not invade a corp
zero zone every session, it is unreasonable to assume that deckers
would have to risk that much all the time.

<snipp hitcherjacks and .sig>

- + - BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za> -

MiX it UP!
Message no. 14
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 06:28:26 -0400
At 01.41 08-26-99 -0400, you wrote:
> Is that available online, and if not, could you email it to me
privately? I have a

It should be. www.specialoperations.com might have, and they would
definantly have link to someplace with it. The first one that pops to mind
is the Nightstalker Association's sight, which is linked from there.
It is also a god piece of literature for every runner who want to be
treated as a profesional to try and live by, so I'm going to post it to the
list. The UCAS Army Rangers may not follow it, but if they don't, I hope
everyone since Rodger's Rangers haunts thier butts.


Ranger Creed

Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my
chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor,
and high "esprit de corps" of the Rangers.

Acknowledging the fact that a Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at
the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air, I accept the fact that as
a Ranger my country expects me to move further, faster, and fight harder
than any other soldier.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert,
physically strong, and morally straight and I will shoulder more than my
share of the task whatever it may be. One Hundred percent and then some.

Gallantly will I show the world that I'm a specially selected and well
trained soldier. My courtesy to superior officers, neatness of dress and
and care of equipment shall set the example for others to follow.

Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them
on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my
might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen
comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will
I ever embarrass my country.

Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight onto the
Ranger objective and complete the mission, though I be the lone survivor.



Good life philosophy- loyalty, courage, integrity, leadership and honor.




Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 15
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:12:32 -0500
> >>Shane is a street scamurai.
> >Kevin, I gather from repeated posts with this particular
> >misspelling that
>
> Easy- I've yet to see one played in a manner that was worthy of the
> title.

Fair enough, though it's my experience that most street sams don't, in
fact, call themselves that. It's an appelation given to them, for better
or for worse, by outsiders.

I don't see a reason to slag them for something they didn't come up with.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 16
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:22:48 -0400
At 07.12 08-26-99 -0500, you wrote:
>Fair enough, though it's my experience that most street sams don't, in
>fact, call themselves that. It's an appelation given to them, for better

I refeer to the characters as they refeer to themselves. Many, if
not the majority, of my characters are MWGs (Man With Gun(s)) and GTMs
(Gun-Toting Maniac (TM)), but they do not refeer to themselves as "samurai".

>I don't see a reason to slag them for something they didn't come up with.

If a fool calls you something you have not earned, he is a fool.
What do you call yourself? (In character)
I only react negatively if the character describes him or herslef as
a samurai and is no more a samurai than I am.

Besides, they are not samurai if they are independents. A samurai
has a legee lord whom he is beholden to.
A "ronin" is a masterless samurai, and is a largely title of dishonor
and shame. (If you defect, you are less than a dog, and become a target.
If your master dies, you are supposed to commit seppuku and follow him into
the afterlife, unless you are on a mission to avenge the death by
dishonorable means of your master, as is the case in the tale of the 47
samurai.) But to be ronin, you must first be samurai. If you have never
been samurai, you can not be ronin.
(At least not properly, although it is vogue in some circles to call
intell and specops personnel who have been RIFed by the end of the Cold War
"ronin". As good a name as any.)

Is it a lot of fuss of mear words? There are no such thing as "mear"
words, especially not with titles of honor and rank. ("Don't call me
'sir', I work for a living!")




Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 17
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:25:50 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Strago <strago@***.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]


>
>
> IronRaven wrote:
>
> > <SNIP>
>
> > (if you are going to tell me, as a GM, you are an ex-Ranger, don't
look at me like
> > I'm crazy
> > when I hand you a copy of the Ranger Creed, as a case in point), and
all
> > are lacking in anything that smells remotely of honor.
> > <SNIP>
>
> Is that available online, and if not, could you email it to me
privately? I have a
> character I'd like to say was a former Ranger, and I'd like to do it
> semi-professionally ;^).
>
> --
> --Strago
>

http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~rfreiber/ranger_html/ranger.html

Mockingbird
Message no. 18
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:12:52 EDT
In a message dated 8/25/1999 9:32:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
runnerpaul@*****.com writes:

>
> Only the datajack and a fair computer skill? What about the
> cyberdeck, and the programs you run on it?
> Those cost nuyen, and the better ones cost lots of nuyen. Take a high
> nuyen amount at chargen to buy decker necessities and combat
> cyberware, and you've limited yourself in how good your starting
> attributes are, and how many skills you can take (especially under
> SR3 where the skills can cost more if you have low attributes),
> especially if you're also playing a metahuman decker.

Actually folks, the decks and programs can be circumvented in a number of
ways.

Program Carriers, Virtual Operations Management (figure that one out), and
internal user interfaces/terminals (I know a friend who does some work for
such-and-such, lets see if he'll let us use his stuff for a fee).

All are options

-K
Message no. 19
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:14:50 EDT
In a message dated 8/25/1999 10:15:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
runnerpaul@*****.com writes:

>
> :>nice if deckers were allowed to use some form of wireless
> :>communication.
> :
> :How about a laser pulse or microwave system? Under perfect
> :conditions, they are as effective as a satlink for LOS work.
>
> Nice ideas. For my own houserule, I've adapted the rules for rigger
> remote control decks. I just wonder what FASA has against wireless
> decking.

I often wonder the same thing myself. It seems kind of odd, especially given
that many Matrix relay networks are beemed out via Microwave anyway.

-K
Message no. 20
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:37:17 -0400
At 09.25 08-26-99 -0500, you wrote:
>http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~rfreiber/ranger_html/ranger.html

also look at:
http://www.jmu.edu/rotc/resource/cadet.html

Roger's Standing Orders and an abriged Sun Tzu. Goodies for runners who
want to be mercs if they grow up.



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 21
From: Tarek Okail Tarek_Okail@**********.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:09:41 -0400
Kevin--

>If your master dies, you are supposed to commit seppuku and follow
>him into the afterlife, unless you are on a mission to avenge the
>death by dishonorable means of your master, as is the case in the
>tale of the 47 samurai.

From Daidoji Yuzan's Budo Shoshinshu:
"A samurai in service is under a great debt and may think that
he can hardly repay it except by committing junshi and following him in
death. But that is not permitted by law... A man may wish for an oppor-
tunity to do something more outstanding than his comrades, to throw
away his life and accomplish something, and if he resolutely makes up
his mind to do something of this sort it is a hundred times preferable
to performing junshi."
In other words, continuing service to the family of the daimyo
is often preferable to killing yourself. One also has to remember that
if you're a samurai, and your lord dies, and all those bushi who follow
your lord commit junshi, then your lord's house is severely weakened.
It may be admirable to do this, from a samurai's standpoint,
but it is incredibly stupid from a dynastic standpoint, and a forward-
thinking samurai would realize that service to his lord's family took
precedence over any selfish desire to follow his lord into death.
"Ronin" was often a synonym with "bandit," particularily after
the Tokugawa era began. Before then, it was easily possible to be
'ronin' without the shame of also being a 'bandit.' Take a look at "The
Seven Samurai." Six of the seven were ronin, and the seventh... well,
he was a mere adventurer with a sword. And yet, all the ronin lived
up to the code of the samurai.

If you want to call yourself a street sam, then by gosh you'd
better live up to the three principles of Loyalty, Right Conduct, and
Bravery, 2060-style.
Loyalty: Even if the Johnson screws you over, as long as you're
on the job, you do the job to the best of your ability. Save taking
revenge until *after* the job is complete, if at all.
Right Conduct: Don't be a villain. Don't take BTL's, drink
excessively, etc. while you're on the job. Don't do these things at all
if you can avoid it. Don't start unnecessary fights.
Bravery: Don't back down from a fight unless it would be
suicide.
There's more to being a "samurai" than just those three
principles, but that's the core of Bushido.

Of course, in 2050 - 2060, "street sam" is shorthand for "gun-
bunny." Only MCT, Renraku, and Yamatetsu would *expect* a street sam
to follow bushido.

Shadowmage
Message no. 22
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:46:24 -0400
At 12.09 08-26-99 -0400, you wrote:
> In other words, continuing service to the family of the daimyo
>is often preferable to killing yourself. One also has to remember that

Miswording on my part. I've got an unfortuante habit of refeering to
one's lord's successor as a continuation of the former. (Basically, Jimmy
the 1st dies and is replaced by Jimmy the 2nd, only the face in the chair
has chnaged, not the person whom the honor is entrusted to.) Can get one
in trouble when the son arranges an accident for the father.

> It may be admirable to do this, from a samurai's standpoint,

I amire Bushido, I never said I live by it.
And there were houses that ceased to exist for that reason.

>he was a mere adventurer with a sword. And yet, all the ronin lived
>up to the code of the samurai.

I never said being ronin meant you stopped being samurai, not where it
counts. But int he eyes of the common people, the difference is there.

>better live up to the three principles of Loyalty, Right Conduct, and
>Bravery, 2060-style.

Personal difference- those don't change, regaurdless of time frame,
IMO.

> There's more to being a "samurai" than just those three
>principles, but that's the core of Bushido.

Yep.
Think of a samurai who uses an assualt cannon, but did not have the
chance to fire it after it was produced....

>
> Of course, in 2050 - 2060, "street sam" is shorthand for "gun-
>bunny."

And that is why I don't feel that the term is a good one. Any punk
with a free month and some sponsors can be be an increadably capable (at
lieast in the short term) operator.

>Only MCT, Renraku, and Yamatetsu would *expect* a street sam
>to follow bushido.

And they laugh every time someone says "street sam"





Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 23
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:00:19 -0400
>>he was a mere adventurer with a sword. And yet, all the ronin lived
>>up to the code of the samurai.
>
> I never said being ronin meant you stopped being samurai, not
where it
>counts. But int he eyes of the common people, the difference is
there.
>


Actually, the "common people," the heimen (peasantry) despised the
samurai, and were ambivalent about the ronin. One could never tell
whether a ronin would finally get off his high horse now that he
wasn't a samurai anymore, or if he's just end up worse because he had
no one to answer to.

Completely, off-topic, but it was preferable to find a
kensei/kenshi/shogyusha (sp?), cop, or yakuza than a samurai. At
the street level, samurai didn't care about the peasantry one bit
(they almost always placed nobility first), which is why I always
thought that the term "street samurai" was something of an oxymoron,
but that's just my two cents.

-----
AK404

http://freespeech.org/ak404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"You fool, pain is my friend! Allow me to introduce you to him!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!"
Message no. 24
From: Ignacio De Lucas morrisjila@*******.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:55:59 GMT
>
>Ok, my actual char its a decker with two cyberarms, one with his deck
>and the other with some gadgets. His an expert in infiltrations and
>security, so because his the decker he gets all the info on the Co. and
>plans the infitration of all the troupe he is in the lead of what to do
>and when to do it. So in a few words he runs the show before, while and
>after the run. He gets in, decks inside, and comes out... simple
>
>So who the hell cares about combat if thats the part you dont want to
>confront (I still dont know a runner who likes to be in the middle of a
>gunfight with Lone Star cops just for the fun...) Besides while you are
>in the matrix there are some stuff called "Hikerjacks" that lets anyone
>to see what are you doing in the matrix


My dear chummer, whats that about you running the show, as far as I an
remember, YOUR character owes his life to mine, two times And both where
your fault REMEMBER? By not checking th file that your Johnson gave you..
And Im sorry but saying that really degrades the other characters, I admit
your character is important but hi IS a MUNCHKING character so If I where
you I wouldnt be so cocky about it.
Besides if you where who runs the show, explain me why has everybody foud
out something about our current case and you have not.
Meanwhile you have been foundig out info on Shadowland which doesnt help us.

So before starting to talk out like that think what you are saying.
CHUMMER.

ATTE el MOPRRIS


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 25
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:30:46 -0400
At 17.00 08-26-99 -0400, you wrote:
>Completely, off-topic, but it was preferable to find a
>kensei/kenshi/shogyusha (sp?), cop, or yakuza than a samurai. At

Depending on the when and where, it may have been better to talk to cop.
I mean, there were places and times whenthey could "protectively detain"
samurai for certain things. Of course, they only had blunt weapons (clubs,
staves,maybe jitte/sai), so if the samurai was in a bad mood, the equation
is pretty easy to solve.
As for teh yaks, I'd say it would be no better to turn to them for help
than it would be to any similiar group, if they existed (when did the
yakuza form, anyone know?)



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 26
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:08:46 -0500
> It is also a good piece of literature for every runner who want to be
> treated as a profesional to try and live by, so I'm going to post it
> to the list.

Into the keeper file it goes.... You have my thanks.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 27
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:29:02 -0500
> >I don't see a reason to slag them for something they didn't
> >come up with.
>
> If a fool calls you something you have not earned, he is a fool.
> What do you call yourself? (In character)

I don't play much anymore, but when I do, my characters tend to be pretty
honest about what they are. Bane, my current character, calls himself what
he is, a gang leader. He hasn't quite gotten the concept of "ghoul" wrapped
around his brain yet, though he's that, too.

Going back a ways, Dancer...Dancer thinks of himself, first and foremost, as
a sniper, though he's getting a bit long in the tooth to be the
down-and-dirty, Remo-Williams-with-wires assassin he started out being.
He's in good shape for being 43, keeps up with the SOTA curve as best he
can, but that sort of thing is a young man's game

He used to be in the CAS special forces until his whole unit got left behind
in Aztlan. He survived, cashiered out, and disappeared from the scopes for
a while. While I didn't have a copy of the Ranger's creed handy, I did have
some friends who were in the Rangers, and I knew what was expected, and
that's how I play Dancer, either as a PC if someone is crazy enough to let
me play him, or as an NPC in my campaign. His primary rule when sending a
team in to do anything is "No one gets left behind."

But, when asked point-blank what he does, he calls himself a sniper.

What this signifies is...well, I don't know what it signifies. You decide.

> I only react negatively if the character describes him or herslef as
> a samurai and is no more a samurai than I am.

Again, fair enough.

> Besides, they are not samurai if they are independents. A samurai
> has a legee lord whom he is beholden to.

I think the word you're looking for here is "liege." And, in one fashion or
another, Dancer has one of those, too.

> Is it a lot of fuss of mear words? There are no such thing as "mear"
> words, especially not with titles of honor and rank. ("Don't call me
> 'sir', I work for a living!")

I may have been a zoomie, but I was a non-commissioned zoomie. That "sir"
business made me crazy, too.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 28
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:53:50 -0400
At 20.29 08-26-99 -0500, you wrote:
>He's in good shape for being 43, keeps up with the SOTA curve as best he
>can, but that sort of thing is a young man's game

Some of the toughest guys I know are in thier 40s and 50s. They blow this
"punk kid" away.

>He used to be in the CAS special forces until his whole unit got left behind

Ah, ha. Then you may want to add this:

The Special Forces Creed
as told by a shamanist (purists complain, but I can't swear to a god I
don't belive in, now can I. And no, I never wore the sword and lightning
on my shoulder.)

I am an American Special Forces soldier.
A professional!
I will do all that my nation requires of me.
I am a volunteer, knowing well the hazards of my profession.

I serve with the memory of those who have gone before me: Roger's Rangers,
Francis Marion, Mosby's Rangers, the first Special Service Forces and
Ranger Battalions of World War II, the Airborne Ranger Companies of Korea.
I pledge to uphold the honor and integrity of all I am - in all I do.

I am a professional soldier.
I will teach and fight wherever my nation requires.
I will strive always, to excel in every art and artifice of war.

I know that I will be called upon to perform tasks in isolation,
far from familiar faces and voices, with the help and guidance of the
Spirits.
I will keep my mind and body clean, alert and strong, for this is my debt
to those who depend upon me.
I will not fail those with whom I serve.
I will not bring shame upon myself or the forces.
I will maintain myself, my arms, and my equipment in an immaculate state as
befits a Special Forces soldier.
I will never surrender though I be the last.
If I am taken, I pray that I may have the strength to spit upon my enemy.
My goal is to succeed in any mission - and live to succeed again.
I am a member of my nation's chosen soldiery.
Spirits grant that I may not be found wanting, that I will not fail this
sacred trust.

"De Oppresso Liber"

Actually, the two creeds and Roger's Standing Orders are good rules of
thumb for runners to remember. Add some basic buisness sense and some
tactical know how, and you are calling the dance.
(And these are the only two I keep on hand- I send them to folks to stuff
into thier dayplanners for inspirational purposes.)

>team in to do anything is "No one gets left behind."

I've only ever broken that rule once, and it meased with that character's
head, even if he would have shot her in a heartbeat if he thought it was
worth the bullet.

>I think the word you're looking for here is "liege." And, in one fashion or

Yep- I don't type well after that much calculus homework.



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 29
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
> >Completely, off-topic, but it was preferable to find a
kensei/kenshi/shogyusha (sp?), cop, or yakuza than a samurai. At

> Depending on the when and where, it may have been better to talk to
cop. I mean, there were places and times whenthey could "protectively
detain" samurai for certain things. Of course, they only had blunt
weapons (clubs, staves,maybe jitte/sai), so if the samurai was in a bad
mood, the equation is pretty easy to solve.
> As for teh yaks, I'd say it would be no better to turn to them for
help than it would be to any similiar group, if they existed (when did
the yakuza form, anyone know?)
> Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu

Some dim, dark memory is saying 15 or 1600s - but I could be WAY off here.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Message no. 30
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:12:02 -0500
> >He's in good shape for being 43, keeps up with the SOTA curve as best he
> >can, but that sort of thing is a young man's game
>
> Some of the toughest guys I know are in thier 40s and 50s.
> They blow this "punk kid" away.

Dancer's led a rough life.

> >He used to be in the CAS special forces until his whole unit got
> >left behind
>
> Ah, ha. Then you may want to add this:
>
> The Special Forces Creed

And into the file this one goes, too. You have a URL for the unmodified
version?

> I am an American Special Forces soldier.
> A professional!
> I will do all that my nation requires of me.
> I am a volunteer, knowing well the hazards of my profession.

That's Dancer. He's also a hard-ass when he hires people. You'd like him.
<g>

> >I think the word you're looking for here is "liege."
>
> Yep- I don't type well after that much calculus homework.

No one does.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 31
From: Bruce gyro@********.co.za
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:09:31 +0200
<snip quote>
> If you want to call yourself a street sam, then by gosh you'd
>better live up to the three principles of Loyalty, Right Conduct, and
>Bravery, 2060-style.
> Loyalty: Even if the Johnson screws you over, as long as
you're
>on the job, you do the job to the best of your ability. Save taking
>revenge until *after* the job is complete, if at all.
> Right Conduct: Don't be a villain. Don't take BTL's, drink
>excessively, etc. while you're on the job. Don't do these things at
all
>if you can avoid it. Don't start unnecessary fights.
> Bravery: Don't back down from a fight unless it would be
>suicide.
> There's more to being a "samurai" than just those three
>principles, but that's the core of Bushido.
>
> Of course, in 2050 - 2060, "street sam" is shorthand for
"gun-
>bunny." Only MCT, Renraku, and Yamatetsu would *expect* a street sam
>to follow bushido.

And Shiawase? I consider them the archetypal Japanacorp.

- + - BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za> -

MiX it UP!
Message no. 32
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:46:10 -0400
At 22.12 08-26-99 -0500, you wrote:
>And into the file this one goes, too. You have a URL for the unmodified
>version?

Replace every mention of Spirits with God and you have the origional.



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 33
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:10:33 -0500
>>And into the file this one goes, too. You have a URL for the
>>unmodified version?
>
>Replace every mention of Spirits with God and you have the origional.

Thanks.

Patrick
Message no. 34
From: Tarek Okail Tarek_Okail@**********.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:27:16 -0400
Kevin--

>Can get one in trouble when the son arranges an accident for
>the father.

Now there's a nice plotline for an adventure. A Renraku
exec dies, and his son steps into the position. The old man's
bodyguard (a Red Samurai) suspects that the son did it...
Or look at Yamatetsu; one of the "old school" board
members hires some 'runners to "prove" that the guy in charge killed
his father...

>And there were houses that ceased to exist for that reason.

Yes, there certainly were. Talk about Darwinian self-selection;
only a human can do something like this.

>Personal difference- those don't change, regaurdless of time frame,
IMO.

Yes and no; the definition of "right conduct" is very different
between a Japanese culture and an American or Western culture. The same
goes for "loyalty"; no sane runner would lay down his life for Mr.
Johnson just because Mr. Johnson says "kill yourself."

>And they laugh every time someone says "street sam"

Presumably they don't laugh if the character in question has
established that he lives by those rules... <g>

Would "Street Op" be a better term than "Street Sam?"

Shadowmage
Message no. 35
From: Daniel Sauve ahsdreamwalker@****.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:02:30 -0400
>
> Presumably they don't laugh if the character in question has
> established that he lives by those rules... <g>
>
> Would "Street Op" be a better term than "Street Sam?"
I use the Cyberpunk term Solo for those who don't have a code of
conduct or honor.
Daniel S. \ICQ #34560540
Kristling Dreamwalker, Shaman \ ahsdreamwalker@****.com
After Hours Studios: http://www.lit.org/ahs/
Music: http://users.50megs.com/kristling
Message no. 36
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: NPC Deckers [was: Construction of items...]
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:25:01 -0700
IronRaven wrote:

> There are no such thing as "mear"
> words, especially not with titles of honor and rank. ("Don't call me
> 'sir', I work for a living!")

LOL. One of my favorites...when, on various MU*s, or especially tabletop, I play
an enlisted man, say about Sergeant and up....That becomes my credo.:> I've been
known to honestly make someone start RUNNING, I've scared them bad enough.:>
(Course, he WAS afraid of loud voices...:))

John

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