| From: | "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Nth Extrapolation (Re: (Vehicular Nano-Doc)) |
| Date: | Sat, 8 Nov 1997 10:20:05 -0500 |
> There is NO "hyperdrastic leap" in reasoning.
Giving it AI or even something close to that is, that is the discussion I was
originally referring to. Everyone who posted a book, did so for books that
involved the Nanites (crunch name here btw) making an evolutionary leap.
That Leap is where SR falls short so often. AI's, though in the hands of
the authors, are not in the hands of the players without some house rules to
stand with 'em.
> Given:
> A nanite repair system that can:
> A) self replicate from stock materials.
> B) Make alterations (repairs) to large scale objects composed of
> complicated and multiple materials (vehicles).
>
> Result:
> You have a nanite technology with few limits on its capability. Self
> intellegence not required. "The street finds its own use for things."
No arguments there.
> Its like saying that pure matter coversion technolgy would be limited
> to only synthesizing food, because somebody invented a "food
> replicator".
No, actually it isn't. It's saying that a physical construction tool can do
physically constructive (or destructive) things.
> >Guys, look at it for the idea it is, and for once, do not extrapolate
> >the idea beyond the idea too far, lest you lose sight of the vision.
>
> Assuming that no alternate use would be found for a powerful
> technolgy is SO contrary to the SR world, and the entire grain of
> cyberpunk, that it is IMPOSSIBLE to look at an idea like this and not
> extrapolate a little bit. "The Vision" then simply does not hold up-
> Its lamer than using the clipper chip being as the model for all
> encryption.
What I meant, and you went passed immediately, was that extrapolation had
limits that went beyond the original post. Everything has its beginning, and
all of what you said is true, in THEORY. But all of it requires some leaps
in science that is beyond so much.
BTW, has anyone else heard they know how to turn aging on? Has anyone else
heard that they can keep the mouse from aging to death?
> Originaly, the topic was what the stats for a nanite vehicle repair
> system would likely be. My best guess was that such a system could not
> existin SR without causing a huge world impact.
That isn't how you worded it, your comments were on the line of (not a quote,
can't find the post now) 'such developments couldn't exist with SR's existing
tech level.'
> Thus, likely stats: Mass, negligable (nanite storage plus small nanite
> manufactured computer); cost, free or outrageous (like software);
> availablity, nil (in 2057, probably until 3057). Capabilties: equal to
> most other contemporary manufacture and medicine, given proper
> opporating parameters, which would require collective guidence of
> multitudes of independant entities for large scale opperations.
> Synthesis of nano scale objects and possible custum molecules not a
> problem. Such use might be sufficient for macroscale effects.
And it is the macroscale we are looking at. Vehicles, NOT molecules. Your
idea of mass is also -WAY- off. Nanites do require space, especially the
earlier theoretical models that haven't gone self aware. Also, go look at
your Ant Colony (or other collective insectivorae for that matter). Sure,
they can do LOTS of things together, but I don't see them -dead lifting- an
entire engine block and carrying it away, or reshaping it into something
else. Trees, organic materials with organic flaws, yes. Hard materials,
that becomes questionable, if not outright difficult.
Let's see if this helps. In the games here, I used the term "Micronites"
instead of Nanites because the former didn't infer such small scale to the
objects in question as the latter does. Media didn't help me one bit.
Nanite sounded so much better, and catch phrases became the rule.
> Once you had the nainites, they could "repair" another car so that
> it had a similar, but smaller, system. And so on, a symbiotic...OOPs,
> sorry, I was extrapolating.
No, you are being headstrong. Take the first sentence. The Nanites being
suggested couldn't perform what you are suggesting, as they have to have the
ability to not only B/R (which means following a form or design), but they
must also have the ability to extrapolate on their own. To augment and
adjust for design. Without some VERY scary Learning Pools (using an R2
rule), that is simply not going to be possible in the current game system.
Basically it is coming down to the CPU of the Vehicular NDOC. And folks,
remember a Learning Pool/Rating is NOT the same as a Pilot Rating.
Creating a "symbiotic" anything involves the same thing.
> Even with ZERO self guiding capability (not intellegence, just
> independant activity), "Nano Hackers" would soon... OOPs, more
> extrapolation.
Again, not extrapolation, more headstrong attitude. Maybe you could finish a
sentence and I could finish the discussion.
> I'd actually say the situation of comparing SR nanites to "nanomech"
> resembles the comparing the invention of the jaquard loom to the PC.
> Both "do the same thing", but there is a universe of differnence, in
> both scientific and engeneering progress.
Yes, now just imagine if the Loom had been followed more correctly in it's
theory and apply such to actual medical usage beyond the age apparent. Now
there is Biotechnology waiting to happen. Stringing strands of cellular
mycotin along a pattern as designated by the determinating
factors/controllers. Quite feasible, quite expensive, but already here.
Please note I said cellular, not molecular.
> When SR nanites reach a level comparable to ENIAC, I'd say
> vehicular nanomech is possible, but comperably rare- other aplications
> would be much more useful. Once it hits the streets, it would cause a
> revolution that makes any use of the PC look like a chimp with a
> thighbone.
You know what, there is stuff in SR that already does that. You want to do
what you are suggesting, go place the BattleTAC in control of the Nanites,
give it a major Flux Rating and each Nanite enough portable power (grass =/=
electrical current without something more) and then maybe, maybe, you will
get what you are stating.
-K
