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Message no. 1
From: Josh grimlakin@****.com
Subject: [OC and political even] Re: How much is how much...?
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:09:57 -0500
Adam Getchell wrote:

> >The IQ tests I took didn't include anything like that! The tests I
> >took were based on abstract symbols, english vocabulary and math.
> >Mostly of the "find the most similar" or "find the least
similar" type.
>
> So if English is not your first language your IQ is lower, right?
>
> >In any case, whether it's a brick of clay or a brick of cheese, I'd
> >probably ask "heavy or light relative to what?".
>
> You're not a 4 year old.
>
> >Ahem. Examine any culture and you'll find cultural bias. This should
> >surprise nobody. People live by a culture's dictates because they want
> >to (whether because they believe it's more fun or less likely to get them
> >killed doesn't matter). Obviously, it follows that no other culture can
> >be better, thus all other cultures are inferior.
>
> Ahem. The hypocrisy in the U.S. is that the dominant culture pretends to be
> accepting, pretends to be open minded, and pretends not to hold down
> minorities. If they would just come out and say, "Blacks/Latinos/Mexicans
> whatever, we don't like you, go away!" at least there's more honesty there.
> Stay on your side, I'll stay on mine. I don't have to *like* everyone I
> meet. Don't like me? I'm cool with that. Stay out of my business.

We must love generalization. I disagree with the term Racism. I think it is
Socialism. IE: Discrimination based on social status and nothing else.

> Good example of this is a joke by Martin Lawrence "One black man walks into
> a white store, they're rude to his face. A whole gang of heads walk in,
> suddenly he's helpful as can be, trying to be your best friend." Live in
> the inner city, my friend, see the violence, the liquor stores every few
> blocks, look at how the police treat minorities. It's the ugly truth. Does
> *your* neighborhood have a liquor store every block, complete with
> alcoholics hanging out front all hours of the night to set an example for
> your kids? Did you have to listen to violence, drug pushers/users, bored
> gangers, and the cries of infants while attempting to study for school in a
> system that doesn't care about your circumstance or culture?

That is a person discriminateing but then discovering fear. Simple instinct.
Does that make him a bigot?? No. It makes that person a Socialist that wants
to live.

> Shootings at Columbine? A massacre by white teenagers? All over the news.
> Now, when there's a gang war on Mission and 24th, or a black female getting
> shot by police officers in Riverside, why, is the media coverage more
> sparse. No one cares what happened to the young single Latina's little
> girl. No pictures on milk cartons for her little nina.

It is in the news because the enviroment did not promote such activity. If
that were the case then by thoes same standards people in minority enviroments
with bad social influences would be carrying the biggest and baddest guns to
school and useing them on a day to day basis. I am glad that society is not
yet that divided and I hope it never gets that way but look at the evidence.

> Everyone wants to make excuses for the disturbed teenagers, the Unabomber.
> Not so for Tupac, or the unnamed masses in the ghettos. Lock them up in
> prison, that's where they belong.

Again Socialism at its peak gotta love it.

> Cruise around Mission and 24th in San Francisco late at night, grow up in
> an inner city school where everyone packs and pushers hang around on street
> corners, view the criminal justice system and the prison industry complex
> from behind bars and count the minorites in prison; compare that with the
> so-called majority. Observe how Budweiser and Coors targets Latino/Chicano
> taquerias and youth specifically. Take a class in
> Latino/Chicano/African-American studies.

Again a victim to the enviroment not to the color of skin. The majority of
people living in for all intensive purposes a lower class neighborhod are
minorities. Or classed as minorities.

> Then come and talk to me about cultural bias.

Not Racisim though you never said it you did intimate it. It is a SOCIAL
disorder. If I look like crap dressed in poor mans clothes that are ragged and
dirty I will be treated generally worse than if I wear clean buisness clothes.
This is true anywhere. It might work the other way around depending on the
area of the world or town that I am in at the time but generally it applies.

> --Adam

GrimlakinCome see the violence inherint in the system!
Message no. 2
From: Ron Clark rclark@****.net
Subject: [OC and political even] Re: How much is how much...?
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:28:16 -0500
>
>We must love generalization. I disagree with the term Racism. I think
it is
>Socialism. IE: Discrimination based on social status and nothing else.

Have you ever met a Racist? It sure isn't Socialism. They hate
specifically because of race. Social status means nothing to them.

Ron
#include disclamer.h
Message no. 3
From: Steve Collins einan@*********.net
Subject: [OC and political even] Re: How much is how much...?
Date: Thu, 13 May 99 20:05:15 -0400
On 5/13/99 7:28 pm, Ron Clark said:

>>
>>We must love generalization. I disagree with the term Racism. I think
>it is
>>Socialism. IE: Discrimination based on social status and nothing else.
>
>Have you ever met a Racist? It sure isn't Socialism. They hate
>specifically because of race. Social status means nothing to them.
>
> Ron
>#include disclamer.h
>
>
>
Yes but the discussion was not about individuals but about whetther
racism was institutionalized in American culture. I will agree that
"languagism" (I know it's not a word but it conveys the meaning) is and
that "Socialism" as defined above is but I disagree that racisim is a
major factor. Are there Racists out there, HELL YES, but minorities have
1000 x the opportunities here than they do in other countries, and 100 x
more than they did 40 years ago here.

Steve
Message no. 4
From: Josh grimlakin@****.com
Subject: [OC and political even] Re: How much is how much...?
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:36:15 -0500
Ron Clark wrote:

> >
> >We must love generalization. I disagree with the term Racism. I think
> it is
> >Socialism. IE: Discrimination based on social status and nothing else.
>
> Have you ever met a Racist? It sure isn't Socialism. They hate
> specifically because of race. Social status means nothing to them.

I see now I should have been more specific. Yes racists do exist. I would
say my Grandfather is Racist. But I feel he is trying.

What I should have said was in the examples given. And alot of the time when
Racisim is being screamed out it is Socialism.

>
>
> Ron
> #include disclamer.h
Message no. 5
From: sean jamieson elf61@*******.com
Subject: [OC and political even] Re: How much is how much...?
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:20:59 PDT
>From: Josh <grimlakin@****.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.org
>To: shadowrn@*********.org
>Subject: [OC and political even] Re: How much is how much...?
>Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:09:57 -0500
>
>
>
>Adam Getchell wrote:
>
> > >The IQ tests I took didn't include anything like that! The tests I
> > >took were based on abstract symbols, english vocabulary and math.
> > >Mostly of the "find the most similar" or "find the least
similar" type.
> >
> > So if English is not your first language your IQ is lower, right?
> >
> > >In any case, whether it's a brick of clay or a brick of cheese, I'd
> > >probably ask "heavy or light relative to what?".
> >
> > You're not a 4 year old.
> >
> > >Ahem. Examine any culture and you'll find cultural bias. This should
> > >surprise nobody. People live by a culture's dictates because they want
> > >to (whether because they believe it's more fun or less likely to get
>them
> > >killed doesn't matter). Obviously, it follows that no other culture
>can
> > >be better, thus all other cultures are inferior.
> >
> > Ahem. The hypocrisy in the U.S. is that the dominant culture pretends to
>be
> > accepting, pretends to be open minded, and pretends not to hold down
> > minorities. If they would just come out and say,
>"Blacks/Latinos/Mexicans
> > whatever, we don't like you, go away!" at least there's more honesty
>there.
> > Stay on your side, I'll stay on mine. I don't have to *like* everyone I
> > meet. Don't like me? I'm cool with that. Stay out of my business.
>
>We must love generalization. I disagree with the term Racism. I think it
>is
>Socialism. IE: Discrimination based on social status and nothing else.
>
> > Good example of this is a joke by Martin Lawrence "One black man walks
>into
> > a white store, they're rude to his face. A whole gang of heads walk in,
> > suddenly he's helpful as can be, trying to be your best friend." Live in
> > the inner city, my friend, see the violence, the liquor stores every few
> > blocks, look at how the police treat minorities. It's the ugly truth.
>Does
> > *your* neighborhood have a liquor store every block, complete with
> > alcoholics hanging out front all hours of the night to set an example
>for
> > your kids? Did you have to listen to violence, drug pushers/users, bored
> > gangers, and the cries of infants while attempting to study for school
>in a
> > system that doesn't care about your circumstance or culture?
>
>That is a person discriminateing but then discovering fear. Simple
>instinct.
>Does that make him a bigot?? No. It makes that person a Socialist that
>wants
>to live.
>
> > Shootings at Columbine? A massacre by white teenagers? All over the
>news.
> > Now, when there's a gang war on Mission and 24th, or a black female
>getting
> > shot by police officers in Riverside, why, is the media coverage more
> > sparse. No one cares what happened to the young single Latina's little
> > girl. No pictures on milk cartons for her little nina.
>
>It is in the news because the enviroment did not promote such activity.
>If
>that were the case then by thoes same standards people in minority
>enviroments
>with bad social influences would be carrying the biggest and baddest guns
>to
>school and useing them on a day to day basis. I am glad that society is
>not
>yet that divided and I hope it never gets that way but look at the
>evidence.
>
> > Everyone wants to make excuses for the disturbed teenagers, the
>Unabomber.
> > Not so for Tupac, or the unnamed masses in the ghettos. Lock them up in
> > prison, that's where they belong.
>
>Again Socialism at its peak gotta love it.
>
> > Cruise around Mission and 24th in San Francisco late at night, grow up
>in
> > an inner city school where everyone packs and pushers hang around on
>street
> > corners, view the criminal justice system and the prison industry
>complex
> > from behind bars and count the minorites in prison; compare that with
>the
> > so-called majority. Observe how Budweiser and Coors targets
>Latino/Chicano
> > taquerias and youth specifically. Take a class in
> > Latino/Chicano/African-American studies.
>
>Again a victim to the enviroment not to the color of skin. The majority of
>people living in for all intensive purposes a lower class neighborhod are
>minorities. Or classed as minorities.
>
> > Then come and talk to me about cultural bias.
>
>Not Racisim though you never said it you did intimate it. It is a SOCIAL
>disorder. If I look like crap dressed in poor mans clothes that are ragged
>and
>dirty I will be treated generally worse than if I wear clean buisness
>clothes.
>This is true anywhere. It might work the other way around depending on the
>area of the world or town that I am in at the time but generally it
>applies.
>
> > --Adam
>
>GrimlakinCome see the violence inherint in the system!
Help! help! i'm being repressed! (i had to. sorry to put it in such a
serious subject. gotta love monty python.)


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