Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: One Ronin <ronin@*******.COM>
Subject: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:29:58 PDT
Alright, alright, I give up. I seems that everyone and their
grandmothers tend to disagree with my "mages as enlistedmen" theory, so
I've decided to revise it. I realize that with full-blown mages being
so damned rare, it would be difficult at best to get one to enlist in
the military for shit-sucking work and piss-poor-pay. On that note, I
stand corrected. However, I still have a difficult time seeing mages as
being strictly officers. It's not that they wouldn't make good
officers, it just that role they play in war isn't necessarily suited to
leadership. Certainly, mages wouldn't be frontline soldiers.....they
are way too valuable for that. I see them as being sort of like warrant
officers who are assigned to companies or battalions, and and at that
level. There will be mages in charge of other mages, but for the most
part, I don't think they would be fully integrated as the leadership of
mundane units. I kinda see them as having their own brigade or division
where individuals are detached to other units on an as needed basis. I
still think that officer rank is a little inappropriate for all mages.
Who wants to see some Colonel mage confined to administrative duties
when he could be out there...hands on, throwing mojo. I'm sure I'm
gonna get slammed by everyone else out there, but, IMNSHO, mages
shouldn't start off with anymore rank than Warrant Officer.....unless
they have a college degree.

BTW, has anyone ever applied this logic to Lone Star mages? I'll bet
you they get paid less than military mages and probably get fewer
benefits. I'm sure they don't start off as captians or anything.
Anyone wanted to explain that one?




EST SULARUS OTH MITHAS.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:41:26 +1000
One Ronin writes:
> BTW, has anyone ever applied this logic to Lone Star mages? I'll bet
> you they get paid less than military mages and probably get fewer
> benefits. I'm sure they don't start off as captians or anything.
> Anyone wanted to explain that one?

See the Lone Star Sourcebook (yeah, I know... it's out of print). Mages in
Lone Star are all officers, they get paid above standard rates to boot, and
most belong to the Division of Paranormal Investigation, where they work
doing forensic type stuff. Some, and these are fewer by far, belong to the
Fast Response Teams or SWAT divisions, where they provide magical backup.

You'll never, ever, ever see a LS mage walking the beat or doing highway
patrol.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 3
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 02:04:59 EDT
In a message dated 9/16/1998 10:32:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
ronin@*******.COM writes:

>
>
> EST SULARUS OTH MITHAS.
>
too much Krynnian action there.... ;P

-K
Message no. 4
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:57:21 -0700
> From: One Ronin <ronin@*******.COM>

<snip opinions on Mages being officers>

I may be completely wron gon this, but aren't "specialty" personel granted
commissions
even now? I thought that surgeons, pilots, and clergy were all officrs
even if they were low grade. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are
put in charge, just that they have a bit of clout and a higher pay scale
then non-comms. I certainly am no expert on this, but that's how I always
thought it worked.

<shrug>

Caric
Message no. 5
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:27:17 +1000
><snip opinions on Mages being officers>
>
>I may be completely wron gon this, but aren't "specialty" personel granted
>commissions
>even now? I thought that surgeons, pilots, and clergy were all officrs
>even if they were low grade. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are
>put in charge, just that they have a bit of clout and a higher pay scale
>then non-comms. I certainly am no expert on this, but that's how I always
>thought it worked.

Okay, I know NOTHING about the military, so this is really IMHO:

I had always been told that the primary reasons why doctors are officers is
so that they can *order* their patients to follow their medical directives,
for the sake of their health and recovery.

Lady Jestyr

- Eagles may soar, but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines. -
jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr
Message no. 6
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:47:00 -0700
> I had always been told that the primary reasons why doctors are officers is
> so that they can *order* their patients to follow their medical directives,
> for the sake of their health and recovery.

Nah..even the most lowly Capt can order a General to follow his
medical directives...Assuming the Capt is a Doctor of course ;)
The awarding of Officer is a compensation for the "higher" learning
that a Doctor or other professional must attain...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 7
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:32:51 +0100
And verily, did GRANITE hastily scribble thusly...
|
|> I had always been told that the primary reasons why doctors are officers is
|> so that they can *order* their patients to follow their medical directives,
|> for the sake of their health and recovery.
|
|Nah..even the most lowly Capt can order a General to follow his
|medical directives...Assuming the Capt is a Doctor of course ;)
|The awarding of Officer is a compensation for the "higher" learning
|that a Doctor or other professional must attain...

Actually, I think in medical matters, Doctors CAN order higher ranks.
(Or am I just watching too much Star Trek with Bones ordering Kirk around
once in a while....)

Nope. I'm not. If the General is in the Doctors Surgery, the Doctor can
officially order the General.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 8
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:26:32 +0100
And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
|
|> From: One Ronin <ronin@*******.COM>
|
|<snip opinions on Mages being officers>
|
|I may be completely wron gon this, but aren't "specialty" personel granted
|commissions
|even now? I thought that surgeons, pilots, and clergy were all officrs
|even if they were low grade.

Over here, all Padres are Captains. It gives them authority without making
them TOO imposing.... Or something.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:10:47 +0100
And verily, did Spike hastily scribble thusly...
||Nah..even the most lowly Capt can order a General to follow his
||medical directives...Assuming the Capt is a Doctor of course ;)
||The awarding of Officer is a compensation for the "higher" learning
||that a Doctor or other professional must attain...
|
|Actually, I think in medical matters, Doctors CAN order higher ranks.
|(Or am I just watching too much Star Trek with Bones ordering Kirk around
|once in a while....)

D'OH!
I misread Granites CAN as a CAN'T for some reason....

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 10
From: "Christopher M. Coulter" <kamikaze@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:01:28 +0000
Has anyone read Just Compensation? If I remember correctly, they
discussed the concept of Mages being officers in that novel. Sure it
was army, but it would hold true for all branches.

Kamikaze
Message no. 11
From: Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:56:59 -0400
On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Spike wrote:

> And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |> From: One Ronin <ronin@*******.COM>
> |
> |<snip opinions on Mages being officers>
> |
> |I may be completely wron gon this, but aren't "specialty" personel granted
> |commissions
> |even now? I thought that surgeons, pilots, and clergy were all officrs
> |even if they were low grade.
>
> Over here, all Padres are Captains. It gives them authority without making
> them TOO imposing.... Or something.
>
When I was in Law School I spoke with both the Air Force and the Army and
seriously considered joining JAG (this was before the TV show). I was told
that I would come in as a 2nd Lieutenant for my first year (or was it
two?). As I understood the JAG designation would mean that I was not a
line of command officer and I would not command anyone, but would merely
have the benefits, privleges, and compensation of an officer to
acknowledge my professional status as a lawyer. It was also mentioned in
an offhand manner, that if I WANTED to have the potential to command I
could opt for additional training (OCS) that would make it possible for
me to end up in command of men. However, such a choice would not be
recommended or normal for a JAG officer.

I can't imagine that mages are offered any less than this by the UCAS.
Possibly, it is more "typical" for them to get the additional training to
end up in command of men than JAG officers, but that would mean that they
had "earned" their officers rank in the same manner as any other college
graduate.

- Kama
Message no. 12
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:27:16 -0400
At 10:57 PM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:

>I may be completely wron gon this, but aren't "specialty" personel granted
>commissions
>even now? I thought that surgeons, pilots, and clergy were all officrs
>even if they were low grade. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are
>put in charge, just that they have a bit of clout and a higher pay scale
>then non-comms. I certainly am no expert on this, but that's how I always
>thought it worked.

Nope, that's dead on.

And it actually may provide the best model for most magicians in the military.

A doctor may be a Captain but he's generally not seen as a "real" Captain.
If this doctor tried to order some Sergeant to take a hill, he'd probably
be ignored or told where to stick it, sir. Despite the fact that
technically, the doctor does have superior rank. In cases of medicine
however, that doctor pretty much outranks everyone else.

You may have the same sort of thing with magicians. In matters of magic
they may well have full jurisdiction. But they may not have much real
authority to tell someone to take a hill (though probably more authority
than the doctor).

You might also have situations, in combat, where the Major Magician is
actually tacking orders from the mundane Sergeant, despite actual rankings,
because of who has operational command of the team and/or operation. Now,
once the magician has proven themselves in combat, then they may be given
the sort of authority that their rank might entitle them to from the
grunts. A bit like how PFCs and Sgts often seem to regard their 1st
Lieutenants; technically their superior officer, but until they've proven
themselves...

Magicians are isolated and segregated from normal society anyway, most
people are either in awe of them or in fear of them. No reason why that
wouldn't change in the military.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 13
From: Aegis Wildstorm <aegis@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:50:05 -0500
Okay...Doctors, Lawyers, and Chaplains are granted granted commissions just
for being doctors, lawyers, and chaplains. This is due to the extensive,
pre-military training they've gone through. All three professions start at
O3 (Capt for non-Navy,Lt for Navy), and yes, their orders bind everyone up
to the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff. PA, LA, and CA (Read: assistants)
are O1-O2. This is because their training isn't as extensive as the
professional counterpart. Currently, a Bachelor's degree is required for a
commission, but not for a warrant.

Mike Brewer
Message no. 14
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:59:56 -0400
At 03:50 PM 9/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Okay...Doctors, Lawyers, and Chaplains are granted granted commissions just
>for being doctors, lawyers, and chaplains. This is due to the extensive,
>pre-military training they've gone through. All three professions start at
>O3 (Capt for non-Navy,Lt for Navy), and yes, their orders bind everyone up
>to the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff. PA, LA, and CA (Read: assistants)
>are O1-O2. This is because their training isn't as extensive as the
>professional counterpart. Currently, a Bachelor's degree is required for a
>commission, but not for a warrant.

Did that just start? My stepdad is in the JAG (Navy Reserve) and I thought
that he started out at O2, after he was already a lawyer. At least now he's
bumped up to O6 and is in charge of his entire group of JAG sailors doing
their JAG thing.

Oh, and in unusual circumstances they are given regular duty. He was
helping do the wills and powers-of-attorney for a new attack sub that was
going out for a 2 week shakedown cruise and something got screwed up. So he
had to go out on an LA class sub for a week, sleeping in the torpedo tube
room. But since he was an O5 at the time, he was actually the 3rd most
senior officer on the ship. Had to do 2 or 3 turns as Officer of the Day.
If they had finished the work 1 day later he would have been on a 2 month
tour of duty.

Sommers
Homepage comming soon!
Message no. 15
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:44:18 +1000
> Okay, I know NOTHING about the military, so this is really IMHO:
>
> I had always been told that the primary reasons why doctors are
> officers is
> so that they can *order* their patients to follow their medical
> directives,
> for the sake of their health and recovery.
>
> Lady Jestyr
>
> - Eagles may soar, but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines. -
> jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr
>
Errr...I'd also add that even a doctor crazy enough to join the army
wouldn't work for a private's pay. Also, I think that ANYONE who
possesses a degree of some sort appropriate to their position (i.e. a
doctor or a computer specialist joining as a doctor or a computer
specialist, not a BA in Creative Writing joining as a footslogger) is
going to join as an officer. At least, that's what it looked like to me
when I was considering (well, trying anyway) to get into officer's
college here in Australia. And as I said before, the majority of, if not
all, military mages in the UCAS and the CAS are going to have some kind
of thaumaturgical degree. Otherwise I sorta doubt the army would accept
them AS MAGES (in other words, your average Joe spellslinger from the
streets can get a SIN and join the army as a footslogger, but he isn't
going to be treated as a mage until he gets an exterior degree or at
least goes through the army's magician training - which, in my opinion,
is quite likely to be along the lines of officer training).

Wordy, ain't I? Sorry if that got a bit confusing.

Doc'
Message no. 16
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:42:49 +1000
One Ronin [ronin@*******.COM] said...

> Alright, alright, I give up. I seems that everyone and their
> grandmothers tend to disagree with my "mages as enlistedmen" theory,
> so
> I've decided to revise it. I realize that with full-blown mages being
> so damned rare, it would be difficult at best to get one to enlist in
> the military for shit-sucking work and piss-poor-pay. On that note, I
> stand corrected. However, I still have a difficult time seeing mages
> as
> being strictly officers.
>
Ummm...as someone else said, read Just Compensation. Or Burning Bright.
Or any other book that features military mages. You'll notice that all
military mages are officers. And this is mainly for the 'can't get 'em
to work for diddly-squat' reason. The thing is, most of these mages
would have gone through college or at least officer's training. And even
if they are officers, they aren't in field command roles exactly. You'll
notice that in the UCAS military, mages are assigned separately to the
regular grunts, don't command units, are put in 'mage auxiliaries' and
are called on specifically when magic is required. So, although they're
officers, they aren't field officers. They're more like (as I believe
someone else said) doctors or military lawyers - they're all officers,
but they don't have field commands. Reasonable?

Now, the only places I can think of off the top of my head that would
differ drastically are the NAN nations, Aztlan or anyone else with a
similar outlook. In the NAN, you'd probably have a lot of combat shaman
grunts - but they're doing it because they want to do it usually
(patriotism and all that), not for the money - so they don't have to be
officers (think the Sioux Wildcats). In Aztlan, the mages are integrated
differently (check the sourcebook) and they have mages who are grunts
and officers (think the Warrior orders).

In the CAS, the UCAS or anyone with a 'traditional' military, though,
mages are almost always going to be officers (the exceptions would
probably be special forces units where they're all, or a good deal of
them, are mages etc.) for the reasons mentioned above.

Doc'
Message no. 17
From: Mike Chartier <mefron@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:26:36 -0400
Ratinac, Rand (NSW) wrote:
>
> One Ronin [ronin@*******.COM] said...
>
> > Alright, alright, I give up. I seems that everyone and their
> > grandmothers tend to disagree with my "mages as enlistedmen" theory,
> > so
> > I've decided to revise it. I realize that with full-blown mages being
> > so damned rare, it would be difficult at best to get one to enlist in
> > the military for shit-sucking work and piss-poor-pay. On that note, I
> > stand corrected. However, I still have a difficult time seeing mages
> > as
> > being strictly officers.
> >
> Ummm...as someone else said, read Just Compensation. Or Burning Bright.
> Or any other book that features military mages. You'll notice that all
> military mages are officers. And this is mainly for the 'can't get 'em
> to work for diddly-squat' reason. The thing is, most of these mages
> would have gone through college or at least officer's training. And even
> if they are officers, they aren't in field command roles exactly. You'll
> notice that in the UCAS military, mages are assigned separately to the
> regular grunts, don't command units, are put in 'mage auxiliaries' and
> are called on specifically when magic is required. So, although they're
> officers, they aren't field officers. They're more like (as I believe
> someone else said) doctors or military lawyers - they're all officers,
> but they don't have field commands. Reasonable?

Probably the best reason military mages are strictly officers is
training. The government would spend a lot of money to train anyone with
magical ability to be useful in their ranks (be it combat arms, military
intelligence, or support). Enlisted men get much less training.

[Because of this officers are required to put in a minimum of 6 years
active duty compared to the 2+ years minimum for a regular active duty
enlisted person.]

Another good reason mages must be officers is responsibility. In the
military commanding officers are responsible for all the men under them.
If you were a mundane officer, would you want an enlisted mage (or group
of enlisted mages) working under you. Mages command and control a lot of
power and for mundanes it's hard to understand and be responsible for
it.

[Besides, how would you know if you just promoted a mage because he
deserved it or because he magiked you into it.]

There, however, is a way for an officer to get demoted and lose his
commission, thus becomming an enlisted person. I'm fairly certain that
instead of stripping a mage of his commission, the military would just
remove the mage from service.

I could easily envision military mages similarly to the way the Psi
Corps operates in Babylon 5. A completely seperate branch lead and
controled by mages would almost be required to be certain things were
working for the best interest of the military.

-Mike
Message no. 18
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:51:18 +0100
And verily, did Ratinac, Rand hastily scribble thusly...
|Wordy, ain't I?

Not really. If you want to see Wordy, try reading a few Doc Doom posts....

where IS he anyway?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 19
From: Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:10:14 -0400
On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Mike Chartier wrote:

(large snip)

>
> Another good reason mages must be officers is responsibility. In the
> military commanding officers are responsible for all the men under them.
> If you were a mundane officer, would you want an enlisted mage (or group
> of enlisted mages) working under you. Mages command and control a lot of
> power and for mundanes it's hard to understand and be responsible for
> it.
>
> [Besides, how would you know if you just promoted a mage because he
> deserved it or because he magiked you into it.]
>
> There, however, is a way for an officer to get demoted and lose his
> commission, thus becomming an enlisted person. I'm fairly certain that
> instead of stripping a mage of his commission, the military would just
> remove the mage from service.
>

(more snippage)

Funny you should mention an officer mage getting demoted to enlisted. I am
playing a hawk shaman who is an enlisted member of a special forces team
who deliberately got herself busted out of officer's territory so that she
could "work for a living" as a weapons specialist.

- Kama
Message no. 20
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:25:08 -0400
At 08:26 PM 9/17/98 -0400, you wrote:

>I could easily envision military mages similarly to the way the Psi
>Corps operates in Babylon 5. A completely seperate branch lead and
>controled by mages would almost be required to be certain things were
>working for the best interest of the military.

But if you have magicians in a separate branch, you end up I think with
more problems than it solves. Different branches of the military and of
the government in general don't get along. Different branches have their
own agendas. In fact, you may get a B5 type of situation (real or
perceived) in which Psi Corp/Magic Corp starts on their own secret agenda.

No, I think you need to make some effort towards integration. Otherwise
you have the grunts disliking and distrusting the magicians, much as rank
and file police officers dislike and distrust Internal Affairs.

Erik J.
Message no. 21
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ )
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:50:18 -0400
<SNIP>
>No, I think you need to make some effort towards integration.
>Otherwise
>you have the grunts disliking and distrusting the magicians,
>much as rank
>and file police officers dislike and distrust Internal Affairs.

I agree on this one. And it sounds alot like the problems
mentioned in the LoneStar book. No pages handy to quote.
But in various places, in mentions that the "DIPS" don't
mesh well with the regular cops and alot of cops either won't
cooperate with them or resist them.
I can definently see this being a similiar case in the branches
of the military.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Officer Mages....(was RE: MARINES ][ ), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.