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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Victor Rodriguez, Jr" <sedahdro@*****.COM>
Subject: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 03:29:00 EST
I know this is off the topic, but I feel this is good info.
I just got Windows 95, and I tried logging on to my Internet Provider Using
Trumpet Winsock, but there was sometype of Protection Error. So if you use
Trumpet to get on to the internet, it probably won't work if you Upgrade to
Windows 95. Luckily I also bought Microsoft Plus, and with it's Internet
tools I was able to connect with my provider. If you use Microsoft Plus you
will need to know your provider DNS address. So far I haven't ran into any
problems with Microsoft's webb-browser, but if you would like I'll keep you
all informed. Sorry again for flooding your mailbox with this off the topic
info. :)
---Sedah Drol


--
I know where my towel is, do you?
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 2
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 08:37:22 -0700
I don't want to hear anymore about windows '95 please!

Yesterday they practically shut down the city to welcome this overgrown
Mac opperating system wannabe. Trust me we hear more than we want to
about Bill Gates and company in seattle.

Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)

*-------------------------------------------*
|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
|President, |<buug@***.com> |
|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
*-------------------------------------------*
Message no. 3
From: John IV <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 10:49:25 -0600
On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Stephen M. Bugge wrote:

> Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)

Mac users unite! :)

John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
sixty of you looking at me like that?"

--Cornfed, from _Duckman_
Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:15:01 -0400
>> Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)
John> Mac users unite! :)

I bought OS/2 Warp yesterday :).

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 5
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 19:16:51 +0200
John IV wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Stephen M. Bugge wrote:
> > Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)
> Mac users unite! :)
"Yo!"
btw, did someone a ahpes-file for Marathon (1, haven't 2 yet) to make
it look "Shadowrun"? :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some |
| die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to |
| deal out death in judgement. -- Gandalf |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 6
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 21:06:28 +0200
>
> >> Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)
> John> Mac users unite! :)
> I bought OS/2 Warp yesterday :).
Just another clone of MacOS !!! Too good for IBM that Apple has
interest in buz with IBM, otherwise there would have been as
many copyright violation calls to court at with with Windoof 95!
Sascha
Message no. 7
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 15:24:11 -0400
>> I bought OS/2 Warp yesterday :).
> Just another clone of MacOS !!!

Not really.

But then, if you want to be pedantic, the Macintosh OS is just a clone
of the Xerox PARC GUI. In fact, the original versions of the Macintosh
and Lisa operating systems (System 32) were written by people who wrote
the PARC GUI.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Message no. 8
From: Mika Nikolic <MNik@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 15:50:13 -0400
In a message dated 95-08-25 12:49:19 EDT, you write:

>Yesterday they practically shut down the city to welcome this overgrown
>Mac opperating system wannabe. Trust me we hear more than we want to
>about Bill Gates and company in seattle.
>
>

Bill Gates isn't bad, the man is a genius of buisness.

>Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)

is it possible to be proud of owning any kind of MAC???
Message no. 9
From: Orin Starchaser <moon.29@*******.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 16:06:09 -0500
>In a message dated 95-08-25 12:49:19 EDT, you write:
>
>>Yesterday they practically shut down the city to welcome this overgrown
>>Mac opperating system wannabe. Trust me we hear more than we want to
>>about Bill Gates and company in seattle.
>>
>>
>
>Bill Gates isn't bad, the man is a genius of buisness.
>
>>Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)
>
>is it possible to be proud of owning any kind of MAC???
HELL YES! I may have a piddly MacII in my office, but I DAMN proud to have
it, even though it's slow as hell and has no real memory to speak of.

-Mata ne,
Orin Starchaser
"Tell me, Doctor. Why did you go into gengineering research?" - Alyn Vage,
Reporter, Network 5 News
"To fulfill a dream mostly."-Dr. Terrance Clark, Genengineer, Genecraft
Biodesigns
"Okay, I'll bite. What dream? A dream for a better, cleaner world? Peace
on Earth? Food and care for the needy?"-Vage
"Nope. Redhead, five-ten with green eyes, athletic build, legs up to
here."-Clark
Shadowtech sourcebook, by Karl Wu.
"I am a repeat offender. I repeat, I repeat, I will offend again..."
Message no. 10
From: Jason Ustica <usticaj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:25:14 -0700
On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Sascha Pabst wrote:

> >
> > >> Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)
> > John> Mac users unite! :)
> > I bought OS/2 Warp yesterday :).
> Just another clone of MacOS !!! Too good for IBM that Apple has
> interest in buz with IBM, otherwise there would have been as
> many copyright violation calls to court at with with Windoof 95!
> Sascha

Too bad Apple dropped the ball and let Microsoft kick their butt in the
marketplace. Also too bad that Apple customer service is the absolute
worst on the entire planet.

Long live Bill Gates! Long live Microsoft! Soon we will rule the world!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

<dodges incoming barrage of flames from Apple users>
:)
--
Jason Ustica * Coming to you from Lancaster,CA * Email: usticaj@****.com
Message no. 11
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@************.ORG>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 21:45:27 -0400
If you need help setting up your Windows 95 internet stuff, send a
message to <win95@****.com>, and you'll get an automatic response with
step-by-step instructions that should work with other providers as well.
Let this please be the LAST that is mentioned about that
[expletive deleted] operating system on this list!

---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@************.org> =========---------
| Give the 'net a pathway to the media: cast your YES vote to create |
| misc.news.internet.announce and misc.news.internet.discuss |
| after you read the CFV in news.announce.newgroups! |
----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----
Message no. 12
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 20:56:41 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, J.D. Falk wrote:

> Let this please be the LAST that is mentioned about that
> [expletive deleted] operating system on this list!

Nah...

Just for the record, I just finished installing it. It works. It's less
bad than Win3.11, and I had no problem getting Trumpet Winsock to make a
ppp connection, or getting netscape to work.

However, my netrek client now spews big messy chunks all over the place.

It's very sad


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Message no. 13
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 11:34:40 +0930
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> >> I bought OS/2 Warp yesterday :).
> > Just another clone of MacOS !!!
>
> Not really.
>
> But then, if you want to be pedantic, the Macintosh OS is just a clone
> of the Xerox PARC GUI. In fact, the original versions of the Macintosh
> and Lisa operating systems (System 32) were written by people who wrote
> the PARC GUI.

Can we kill this please? The truth is: Apple BOUGHT the rights to the Xerox
PARC GUI, along with the contracts of many of the developers. IBM developed
OS/2 (and subsequent versions, including Warp) themselves, including the
human interface research to validate their ideas. Microsoft just stole
ideas from both sides.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 14
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 11:35:52 +0930
Mika Nikolic wrote:
> >Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)
>
> is it possible to be proud of owning any kind of MAC???

It is possible to be proud of owning any great feat of engineering, wether
that feat is a house, a beautiful car, or the only fully integrated
combination of hardware and software available at this time...


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 15
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 21:55:15 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sat, 26 Aug 1995, Robert Watkins wrote:

> Can we kill this please? The truth is: Apple BOUGHT the rights to the Xerox
> PARC GUI, along with the contracts of many of the developers. IBM developed
> OS/2 (and subsequent versions, including Warp) themselves, including the
> human interface research to validate their ideas. Microsoft just stole
> ideas from both sides.

Hey, an OS war is a welcome relief from the usual aircraft wars.

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\ /__ Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Finger for PGP Public Key
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Message no. 16
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 11:40:15 +0930
Robert A. Hayden wrote:
>
> On Sat, 26 Aug 1995, Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> > Can we kill this please? The truth is: Apple BOUGHT the rights to the Xerox
> > PARC GUI, along with the contracts of many of the developers. IBM developed
> > OS/2 (and subsequent versions, including Warp) themselves, including the
> > human interface research to validate their ideas. Microsoft just stole
> > ideas from both sides.
>
> Hey, an OS war is a welcome relief from the usual aircraft wars.

True, but it's hardly SR related... OTH, if you want to talk about
Microsoft's future incarnation (can't remember the name... my Seattle
Sourcebook is out on loan), not to mention the Gates kid in Prime Runners,
going up against the various operating systems of the 2050s, feel free...
:)
(That Gates kid in Prime Runners is such a geek... and the spitting image
of his (great?)grandfather... :) )

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 17
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 09:40:33 -0400
>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
writes:

Robert> Can we kill this please?

Not until you get your information correct.

Robert> The truth is: Apple BOUGHT the rights to the Xerox PARC GUI,
Robert> along with the contracts of many of the developers.

The truth is, Apple did no such thing. Yes, Bill Atkinson, the guy
behind System 32, convinced a bunch of the PARC guys to jump ship, but
Apple never paid any money to Xerox for it. Why do you think that within
days of Apple filing their look-and-feel suit against Microsoft, Xerox
filed an identical suit against Apple?

Robert> IBM developed OS/2 (and subsequent versions, including Warp)
Robert> themselves, including the human interface research to validate
Robert> their ideas. Microsoft just stole ideas from both sides.

And Bill Atkinson, whom I already mentioned, saw a PARC OS demo on a
Star one day and said, "windows! fantastic". And he took the idea and
improved it (he pioneered the concept of the "virtual desktop") -- PARC
couldn't do overlapping windows, for instance -- hired off a bunch of
the PARC programming team, and the result was the QuickDraw and the OS
running on the Apple Lisa. Which Steve Jobs swiped for the Macintosh
when the Lisa project was canned.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Message no. 18
From: Mika Nikolic <MNik@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 12:15:25 -0400
In a message dated 95-08-25 13:13:27 EDT, you write:

> Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)

how can anyone be pround of owning a MAC?
Message no. 19
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:12:54 +0930
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> The truth is, Apple did no such thing. Yes, Bill Atkinson, the guy
> behind System 32, convinced a bunch of the PARC guys to jump ship, but
> Apple never paid any money to Xerox for it. Why do you think that within
> days of Apple filing their look-and-feel suit against Microsoft, Xerox
> filed an identical suit against Apple?
>

A suit they LOST because the courts ruled that Apple's action fell within
the licensing agreement Apple had made with Xerox...

(And you're right, Apple never paid money... the licensing agreement was
paid for with shareholdings in Apple.)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 20
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 19:24:27 -0700
*-------------------------------------------*
|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
|President, |<buug@***.com> |
|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
*-------------------------------------------*


On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Mika Nikolic wrote:

>
> Bill Gates isn't bad, the man is a genius of buisness.

I have nothing against Bill Gates, <aside from the fact that he donated
money to every candidate I opposed in '94> It's the Seattle press that
routinely ignores important issues to write about stuff like the Windows
party when they know that there were some breaking issues regarding CPS
that would affect the lives of many people.

> > >Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :
> is it possible to be proud of owning any kind of MAC???

absolutely
Message no. 21
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 19:38:22 -0700
*-------------------------------------------*
|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
|President, |<buug@***.com> |
|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
*-------------------------------------------*


On Sat, 26 Aug 1995, Mika Nikolic wrote:

> In a message dated 95-08-25 13:13:27 EDT, you write:
>
> > Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)
>
> how can anyone be pround of owning a MAC?

Obviously you've never owned a Power MAC.
Message no. 22
From: James Pearley Kilbride <kilbrj@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:26:09 -0400
On Aug 27, 7:24pm, Stephen M. Bugge wrote:
> Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
> *-------------------------------------------*
> |Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
> |President, |<buug@***.com> |
> |College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
> *-------------------------------------------*
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Mika Nikolic wrote:
>
> >
> > Bill Gates isn't bad, the man is a genius of buisness.
>
> I have nothing against Bill Gates, <aside from the fact that he donated
> money to every candidate I opposed in '94> It's the Seattle press that
> routinely ignores important issues to write about stuff like the Windows
> party when they know that there were some breaking issues regarding CPS
> that would affect the lives of many people.
>
> > > >Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :
> > is it possible to be proud of owning any kind of MAC???
>
> absolutely
>-- End of excerpt from Stephen M. Bugge

YESS you go boy.. I personally would be more proud of owning a mac than an
ibm compatible system. but we won't get into the reasons why this is
shadowrun.. question for you'all out dere. are Microsoft, Ibm, Intel,
Motorola or apple still around in the world of shadowrun??
Message no. 23
From: Stephanos Piperoglou <sneakabout@**********.HOL.GR>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:22:36 +0200
On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:

> I know this is off the topic, but I feel this is good info.
> I just got Windows 95, and I tried logging on to my Internet Provider Using
> Trumpet Winsock, but there was sometype of Protection Error. So if you use
> Trumpet to get on to the internet, it probably won't work if you Upgrade to
> Windows 95. Luckily I also bought Microsoft Plus, and with it's Internet
> tools I was able to connect with my provider. If you use Microsoft Plus you
> will need to know your provider DNS address. So far I haven't ran into any
> problems with Microsoft's webb-browser, but if you would like I'll keep you
> all informed. Sorry again for flooding your mailbox with this off the topic
> info. :)

Oh wow! Way cool! You have a 32-bit (?) OS, with pre-emptive
multitasking, multithreading, a flat memory model and all that, that
comes with all the tools for connecting to the Internet and an
intelligent, dynamic, powerful GUI?

Well, I've had one for over a year now. It's called Linux. It's Unix. And
it's free, and so is 99% of all the software for it. Gee. I guess you
just wasted your money.
_________________________ ______________________________
______/ Stephanos J. Piperoglou \____/ sneakabout@**********.hol.gr \______
Aspiring Linux hacker, computer nut, RP gamemaster, sci-fi fan, High School
student, amateur writer, forensics champion, A-level candidate, math adept,
science geek, rave fan, people person, pleasantly plump, or in other words:
GCS/S/M/L/PA d- s++:++ a16 C++++ UL++>++++ P+ L+++>++++ E- W++ N+ K w--- O-
M+ !V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R+++ tv b++ DI? D+ G++ e->++++ h! r y?

...QED
Message no. 24
From: Stephanos Piperoglou <sneakabout@**********.HOL.GR>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:23:57 +0200
On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> >> Steve, a proud PowerMAC user venting off steam. :)
> John> Mac users unite! :)
>
> I bought OS/2 Warp yesterday :).

You people still pay for your Operating Systems? :-)

Linux: The choice of a GNU generation
_________________________ ______________________________
______/ Stephanos J. Piperoglou \____/ sneakabout@**********.hol.gr \______
Aspiring Linux hacker, computer nut, RP gamemaster, sci-fi fan, High School
student, amateur writer, forensics champion, A-level candidate, math adept,
science geek, rave fan, people person, pleasantly plump, or in other words:
GCS/S/M/L/PA d- s++:++ a16 C++++ UL++>++++ P+ L+++>++++ E- W++ N+ K w--- O-
M+ !V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R+++ tv b++ DI? D+ G++ e->++++ h! r y?

...QED
Message no. 25
From: Stephanos Piperoglou <sneakabout@**********.HOL.GR>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:25:56 +0200
On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Mika Nikolic wrote:

> Bill Gates isn't bad, the man is a genius of buisness.

Yeah well if Microsoft's coders had half the ability of their marketeers
maybe they'd produce something worthwhile for a change.
_________________________ ______________________________
______/ Stephanos J. Piperoglou \____/ sneakabout@**********.hol.gr \______
Aspiring Linux hacker, computer nut, RP gamemaster, sci-fi fan, High School
student, amateur writer, forensics champion, A-level candidate, math adept,
science geek, rave fan, people person, pleasantly plump, or in other words:
GCS/S/M/L/PA d- s++:++ a16 C++++ UL++>++++ P+ L+++>++++ E- W++ N+ K w--- O-
M+ !V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R+++ tv b++ DI? D+ G++ e->++++ h! r y?

...QED
Message no. 26
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:46:07 +0200
At 11.40 26/08/95 +0930, you wrote:
>(That Gates kid in Prime Runners is such a geek... and the spitting image
>of his (great?)grandfather... :) )
>
> Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au


In one of the novels (never trust an elf?) there's a party in the Renraku
arcology where the mover of seattle happily conversate. There is the CEO of
Microdeck whose name is quite similar to Bill. Maybe a name change in view
of the cyberdeck market? Can I buy some software from them to put on my
beefed up fuchi cyber-7? Do i will have to expand my memory? :)

Bye, Paolo
------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider http://www.interware.it/users/paolo
Trieste, Italy
Ph. +39-40-774488
------------------------------------------------------------------
Home of The Shadowrun Archive
Message no. 27
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:43:20 -0400
>>>>> "Stephanos" == Stephanos Piperoglou
<sneakabout@**********.HOL.GR>
>>>>> writes:

Stephanos> You people still pay for your Operating Systems? :-)

Yes, some of us do.

Stephanos> Linux: The choice of a GNU generation

Tell me, where can I get the Banyan VINES networking modules for Linux,
for a variety of IBM Token Ring cards, ethernet cards, and Xircom pocket
and pc-card adaptors, and the server patches from a *reputable* company?
I need VINES for work (Banyan has the software for OS/2), and we don't
put software on our servers that isn't suported by a vendor (so we can
call them and say "this doesn't work, fix it" and expect a response).

Now, if you can point me at a reputable vendor who can provide support
for Linux and Banyan VINES interoperability, I'd absolutely love to hear
about them. But until then I suggest think about what you're saying.
Some of us work in the real world, and Linux just doesn't exist in it.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ of skin.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 28
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:05:30 -0700
Well Microsoft has become Microdeck, I don't know about the others.

*-------------------------------------------*
|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
|President, |<buug@***.com> |
|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
*-------------------------------------------*
Message no. 29
From: MENARD Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:22:58 -0400
On Mon, 28 Aug 1995, Stephanos Piperoglou wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:
>
> > I know this is off the topic, but I feel this is good info.
> > I just got Windows 95, and I tried logging on to my Internet Provider Using
> > Trumpet Winsock, but there was sometype of Protection Error. So if you use
> > Trumpet to get on to the internet, it probably won't work if you Upgrade to
> > Windows 95. Luckily I also bought Microsoft Plus, and with it's Internet
> > tools I was able to connect with my provider. If you use Microsoft Plus you
> > will need to know your provider DNS address. So far I haven't ran into any
> > problems with Microsoft's webb-browser, but if you would like I'll keep you
> > all informed. Sorry again for flooding your mailbox with this off the topic
> > info. :)
>
> Oh wow! Way cool! You have a 32-bit (?) OS, with pre-emptive
> multitasking, multithreading, a flat memory model and all that, that
> comes with all the tools for connecting to the Internet and an
> intelligent, dynamic, powerful GUI?
>
> Well, I've had one for over a year now. It's called Linux. It's Unix. And
> it's free, and so is 99% of all the software for it. Gee. I guess you
> just wasted your money.

Linux is very good, if you know VERY well what you're doing. Many
people think OS/2 is hard to install, with cryptiv options and
everything. Those people certainly never tried to install Linux. Althoug
the text-insterface part is pretty straightforward, the xfree one is VERY
complicaed. I am well versed in computer terminology, and althoug i've
tried 4 times to install it, I was never able to get it(xfree that is) to
work. So yep, its a free, very powerful OS, but only for computer
hackers(to which it is targeted anyway). As for free software, it's good
only as long as you can get it to compile!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 30
From: Tim Kerby <tkerby@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:30:32 +0600
> On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Mika Nikolic wrote:
>
> > Bill Gates isn't bad, the man is a genius of buisness.

If ruthless, conniving, and backstabbing equal genius, then I agree with you.

> Yeah well if Microsoft's coders had half the ability of their marketeers
> maybe they'd produce something worthwhile for a change.
> _________________________ ______________________________
> ______/ Stephanos J. Piperoglou \____/ sneakabout@**********.hol.gr \______

Ain't it the truth? Preach on, brother!

___TIM KERBY_____|---------------------------------------------
tkerby@***.net |"Watch your back, shoot straight,
drekhead@***.com | and never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon."
_________________|---------------------------------------------
Message no. 31
From: Tim Kerby <tkerby@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:14:06 +0600
> In one of the novels (never trust an elf?) there's a party in the Renraku
> arcology where the mover of seattle happily conversate. There is the CEO of
> Microdeck whose name is quite similar to Bill.
> Bye, Paolo

It was in Night's Pawn by Tom Dowd. Here let me grab it...Chapter 25, pg. 227. He is
talking about the corporate elite that the character Chase recognizes, of which one
is Brian Gates of Microdeck. BTW, just what exactly does Microdeck do? And like
someone else suggested, has anyone ever played out the fate of today's big
corporations in the 2050's?

___TIM KERBY_____|---------------------------------------------
tkerby@***.net |"Watch your back, shoot straight,
drekhead@***.com | and never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon."
_________________|---------------------------------------------
Message no. 32
From: Tim Kerby <tkerby@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:25:37 +0600
>
> Oh wow! Way cool! You have a 32-bit (?) OS, with pre-emptive
> multitasking, multithreading, a flat memory model and all that, that
> comes with all the tools for connecting to the Internet and an
> intelligent, dynamic, powerful GUI?
>
> Well, I've had one for over a year now. It's called Linux. It's Unix. And
> it's free, and so is 99% of all the software for it. Gee. I guess you
> just wasted your money.
> _________________________ ______________________________
> ______/ Stephanos J. Piperoglou \____/ sneakabout@**********.hol.gr \______

Well, I've had one for almost a year now as well, and it's called OS/2 Warp. And I
have a Linux partition on my hard drive. They complement each other real well.
What is the big deal about Windows 95 anyway?

___TIM KERBY_____|---------------------------------------------
tkerby@***.net |"Watch your back, shoot straight,
drekhead@***.com | and never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon."
_________________|---------------------------------------------
Message no. 33
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:01:04 +0930
James Pearley Kilbride wrote:
>
> YESS you go boy.. I personally would be more proud of owning a mac than an
> ibm compatible system. but we won't get into the reasons why this is
> shadowrun.. question for you'all out dere. are Microsoft, Ibm, Intel,
> Motorola or apple still around in the world of shadowrun??

Microsoft becomes Microdeck. Motorola is around (I remember a reference in
one of the modules, I think, to a Motorola made minicomputer). IBM, I
_think_ are still around, though I can't remember any references. And, in
MY game at least, Apple are still around, but have moved from Cal Free
State to Pueblo.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 34
From: Mika Nikolic <MNik@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:11:32 -0400
In a message dated 95-08-27 22:43:25 EDT, you write:

>Obviously you've never owned a Power MAC.

nope and i never will. IBM's are the best.
Message no. 35
From: Mika Nikolic <MNik@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:19:28 -0400
In a message dated 95-08-28 10:37:15 EDT, you write:

>
>Yeah well if Microsoft's coders had half the ability of their marketeers
>maybe they'd produce something worthwhile for a change.

i have no arguments i don't like many microsoft programs, but i just think
Bill Gates is a genius in buisness.
Message no. 36
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*******.CSE.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:25:04 -0400
On Mon, 28 Aug 1995, Tim Kerby wrote:

> What is the big deal about Windows 95 anyway?


Well, it's great for games. That's about it, though.

--Craig
Message no. 37
From: Justin Elliott <justin.elliott@*******.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:51:22 +1200
Could this thread please be moved to a more suitable list.

I getting enough of Win95 from tv adds, flyers, newspaper reports and so on
and so and so on........ with out having to read about it in my *SHADOWRN*
mail.

I'm Win95'd out. PLEASE no more.

*Justin crawls into a corner and begins sobbing as he bangs his head slowly
angainst the wall*


Justin Elliott
(justin.elliott@*******.otago.ac.nz)

"To know nothing of history, is to remain perpetually a child"

---Cicero

"Time is a great teacher, but unfortuneately it kills all its pupils."

---Hector Berlioz
Message no. 38
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:18:57 +0930
Mika Nikolic wrote:
>
> In a message dated 95-08-27 22:43:25 EDT, you write:
>
> >Obviously you've never owned a Power MAC.
>
> nope and i never will. IBM's are the best.

So buy an RS6000... or their new PPC620 based workstation. :)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 39
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:51:36 +0200
>YESS you go boy.. I personally would be more proud of owning a mac than an
>ibm compatible system.

So is FASA, apparently: there's this bit of garbled file in Cybertech, and
there's an Apple symbol in it...

>but we won't get into the reasons why this is
>shadowrun.. question for you'all out dere. are Microsoft, Ibm, Intel,
>Motorola or apple still around in the world of shadowrun??

Probably not, at least not as independants. I'd think they've all been
bought out or run into bankruptcy by the megacorps. The latter being
accomplised, of course, by first their marketing staff and then their
programmers (in that order) getting offered LOADS of money to join
MCT/Fuchi/Ares/you name it :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's a Hardley Davidson
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 40
From: Allen Versfeld <aversfel@****.CS.UNP.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:20:33 +0200
On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >shadowrun.. question for you'all out dere. are Microsoft, Ibm, Intel,
> >Motorola or apple still around in the world of shadowrun??
>
> Probably not, at least not as independants. I'd think they've all been
> bought out or run into bankruptcy by the megacorps. The latter being
> accomplised, of course, by first their marketing staff and then their
> programmers (in that order) getting offered LOADS of money to join
> MCT/Fuchi/Ares/you name it :)
>
I don't think so. Wouldn't you consider Microsoft to be a
megacorporation? Correct me if I am wrong, but MS are the most powerful
company in the computer world. Assuming they survive the great crash etc,
wouldn't they still be leading the market? Surely they would be the ones
buying programmers and marketing staff.

just my 2Y

---------------------------
"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
- Clarke
"any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology"
- Murphy
"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged
demo" - unknown
aversfel@****.cs.unp.ac.za
homepage opening soon

geek 3.0
GCS/S d- s:- a? c++ UL P? W++(--) N++ K- w(+) O? M-- V? PS !PE Y+ PGP- t+ 5?
Message no. 41
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@************.ORG>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:57:50 -0400
On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Allen Versfeld wrote:

> I don't think so. Wouldn't you consider Microsoft to be a
> megacorporation? Correct me if I am wrong, but MS are the most powerful
> company in the computer world. Assuming they survive the great crash etc,
> wouldn't they still be leading the market? Surely they would be the ones
> buying programmers and marketing staff.

Nope. They'll be pumping too much money into the Microsoft
Network, it'll fail, and Bill Gates will sell the entire thing to Fuchi
and start investing in toiletries.
Of course, MS wasn't quite as big when SRI came out, and SRII's
history wasn't changed much, so....

---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@************.org> =========---------
| Give the 'net a pathway to the media: cast your YES vote to create |
| misc.news.internet.announce and misc.news.internet.discuss |
| after you read the CFV in news.announce.newgroups! |
----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----
Message no. 42
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:55:56 +0200
>I don't think so. Wouldn't you consider Microsoft to be a
>megacorporation? Correct me if I am wrong, but MS are the most powerful
>company in the computer world. Assuming they survive the great crash etc,
>wouldn't they still be leading the market? Surely they would be the ones
>buying programmers and marketing staff.

Microsoft is megahugely big when it comes to computer software, but what
else do they do? Not to mention (as you actually already did :) that they
have to survive the Crash of '29 relatively intact -- and I sort of doubt
anyone who is as involved as Microsoft with computers would do just that
(apart from if they knew whodunnit :)

Here's a thought: maybe Microsoft wrote the Crash virus...



<insert "it was Windows" jokes here> *grin*

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's a Hardley Davidson
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 43
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:45:19 -0700
Maybe Microsoft got eaten by Insect Spirits.

See, I TOLD you Insect Spirits weren't evil! :)

-E
Message no. 44
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@************.ORG>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:00:05 -0400
On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Gurth wrote:

> Here's a thought: maybe Microsoft wrote the Crash virus...

Or another thought: the Crash virus only hit Windows, Mac OS, and
most common flavors of Unix. That'd take care of almost everything out
there, but leave some of the stranger systems running. Yes, folks, the
computers of the 2060's are based on Amiga and VAX technologies. *grin*

---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@************.org> =========---------
| Give the 'net a pathway to the media: cast your YES vote to create |
| misc.news.internet.announce and misc.news.internet.discuss |
| after you read the CFV in news.announce.newgroups! |
----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----
Message no. 45
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:25:20 -0400
>>>>> "J" == J D Falk <jdfalk@************.ORG> writes:

J> Or another thought: the Crash virus only hit Windows, Mac OS,
J> and most common flavors of Unix.

Well, you see, that's the reason many think that it was deliberate,
because *nothing* was spared. Furthermore, just by dint of it's nature,
Unix and other operating systems built on a protected memory model, such
as VAX/VMS or IBM's VM/CM/CMS/etc., operating systems, are practically
immune to viruses (trojan horses are another matter) -- more evidence
that the Crash was deliberate.

J> That'd take care of almost everything out there, but leave some of
J> the stranger systems running. Yes, folks, the computers of the 2060's
J> are based on Amiga and VAX technologies. *grin*

VAX\VMS, IBM's VM/CM/CMS/etc., Tandem systems, and a whole mess of
otheres aren't as uncommon as you may think. You may not see them in the
accademic sector but they're a major portion of the computing power in
use today.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ head.
Message no. 46
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:12:13 -0700
>> Yes, folks, the
computers of the 2060's are based on Amiga and VAX technologies. *grin*<<

That would explain why the decking rules suck.


:) Sorry, couldn't resist.

-E
Message no. 47
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 23:35:10 -0400
> I don't think so. Wouldn't you consider Microsoft to be a
> megacorporation? Correct me if I am wrong, but MS are the most powerful
> company in the computer world. Assuming they survive the great crash etc,
> wouldn't they still be leading the market? Surely they would be the ones
> buying programmers and marketing staff.

But the Computer industry is really kinda fickle. In under FIVE years, MS
could be ousted from the top software spot(Don't laugh, everyone, even IBM
was caught off guard when Compaq released the 386 before IBM did, and see
what happened to Big Blue's computer sales after that!).

Matt 'Comatose Raspberry' Hufstetler
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt2778a
Internet: gt2778a@*****.gatech.edu
Message no. 48
From: Allen Versfeld <aversfel@****.CS.UNP.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:09:40 +0200
On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Gurth wrote:

>
> Microsoft is megahugely big when it comes to computer software, but what
> else do they do? Not to mention (as you actually already did :) that they
> have to survive the Crash of '29 relatively intact -- and I sort of doubt
> anyone who is as involved as Microsoft with computers would do just that
> (apart from if they knew whodunnit :)
>
> Here's a thought: maybe Microsoft wrote the Crash virus...
>
>
>
> <insert "it was Windows" jokes here> *grin*
>

Well, I saw from somebodies .sig :"Windows is not a virus. virus's do
something"

---------------------------
"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
- Clarke
"any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology"
- Murphy
"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged
demo" - unknown
aversfel@****.cs.unp.ac.za
homepage opening soon

geek 3.0
GCS/S d- s:- a? c++ UL P? W++(--) N++ K- w(+) O? M-- V? PS !PE Y+ PGP- t+ 5?
Message no. 49
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:21:30 +0930
Allen Versfeld wrote:
> I don't think so. Wouldn't you consider Microsoft to be a
> megacorporation? Correct me if I am wrong, but MS are the most powerful
> company in the computer world. Assuming they survive the great crash etc,
> wouldn't they still be leading the market? Surely they would be the ones
> buying programmers and marketing staff.

They're the most powerful company in the SOFTWARE world (it's slightly
different). And heck, the crash was probably caused by a bug in Windows
2029. :)

Wether or not they would lead the market: five years ago, MS was just one
of the crowd. In five years time, they may be back there. The only company
which ever dominated the computer industry for a long time (IBM) lost their
lead totally in a handful of years.

The computer industry is too volatile to say who will lead in 5 years, let
alone 60.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 50
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:27:09 +0930
J.D. Falk wrote:
>
> On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Gurth wrote:
>
> > Here's a thought: maybe Microsoft wrote the Crash virus...
>
> Or another thought: the Crash virus only hit Windows, Mac OS, and
> most common flavors of Unix. That'd take care of almost everything out
> there, but leave some of the stranger systems running. Yes, folks, the
> computers of the 2060's are based on Amiga and VAX technologies. *grin*

But all the Amigas don't run anything except for emulators, so they're
taken out as well...

I do concede the VAXen though... those things will never vanish.
Unfortunately.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 51
From: The Passman <pshryer@*.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Off Topic: Windows '95
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:05:02 -0500
OK, lets see if we can get this back on topic....

Announcement: Micro-Deck industries announces the release of...
Windsoft '56


In statement released to the press this morning, Microdeck CEO
Brian Gates announced that Winsoft '56 (originally named Windsoft '55)
would be released on October 1 of this year.

This statement brings to a close more than a year of debate and
questions surrounding Microdecks new operating system. The debate
began back in January of 2055 when Gates announced a new operating system
that would, "revolutionize the computer industry, make people more
efficient, and improve the way people work around the world." The
cornerstone of this new system is Microdeck's integration of their
special networking software into the operating system. This integration
will allow seamless access to the matrix for all users regardless of
skill level. Microdeck has even responded to industry fears that this
Matrix invasion could lead to large security breaches by limiting their
Matrix software to only allow access to a small section of Microdecks own
Matrix system. Microdeck is currently selling space in the accessable
region to various vendors worldwide.

Paul
--
find me at | "Connor, what are you doing here?"
pshryer@*.umn.edu | "Headhunting."
if you want to look | -- Connor and Duncan Macleod
Message no. 52
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Windows '95
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:50:57 -0400
>>>>> "The" == The Passman <pshryer@*.UMN.EDU> writes:

The> Brian Gates announced that Winsoft '56 (originally named Windsoft '55)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
You misspelled "Detroit".

You also forgot to mention how by '59 '59 would be gone, almost
entirely replaced by MS (originally titled "Seattle").

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 53
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:02:14 +0200
At 13.20 29/08/95 +0200, you wrote:
>I don't think so. Wouldn't you consider Microsoft to be a
>megacorporation? Correct me if I am wrong, but MS are the most powerful
>company in the computer world. Assuming they survive the great crash etc,
>wouldn't they still be leading the market? Surely they would be the ones
>buying programmers and marketing staff.
>
>just my 2Y

Sorry to disappoint you but the whole market of MS is about 1 tenth of IBM's
software one today. MS get their money from PC software, ok, they sell a lot
of copies but a single one is very unexpensive if you look at the cost of a
mainframe operating system or application. IBM is keeping up OS/2 using the
mainframe market money, and it is not a great effort, any other company not
backed up by that level of resources (the mainframe market) should have
sinked OS/2 years ago.

PLEASE, understand that I'm not evaluating OS/2 virtues or demerits, only
saying that, at a certain level of competition (OS/2 vs Win vs Mac) the
competitors have to use all the resources they have to survive, and only a
company like IBM could devote a single division to fight this battle.

(* Alright, mr. Worf, raise the anti-flame shield * Aye, captain *)

Bye, Paolo
------------------------------------------------------------------
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InterWare Service Provider http://www.interware.it/users/paolo
Trieste, Italy
Ph. +39-40-774488
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 54
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:08:59 +0200
At 16.25 29/08/95 -0400, you wrote:
>VAX\VMS, IBM's VM/CM/CMS/etc., Tandem systems, and a whole mess of
>otheres aren't as uncommon as you may think. You may not see them in the
>accademic sector but they're a major portion of the computing power in
>use today.
>
>Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get

The 50% of the software running *today* in the world is written in COBOL.

Bye, Paolo
------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider http://www.interware.it/users/paolo
Trieste, Italy
Ph. +39-40-774488
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 55
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:35:06 +0200
> The 50% of the software running *today* in the world is written in COBOL.
>
> Bye, Paolo

Don't say that evil word with C. I hate this "language" and I know C. good.
Long story, not told here. Writing whole sentences just to give a variable
a value isn't just my style.
bye,
Stefan
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e-mail: struck@****.informatik.uni-bonn.de
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...but there's nothing like having your friends show up with lots of guns.
-Frank Miller, The Big Fat Kill
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Message no. 56
From: Mark Sawko <sawk6112@****.GMI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:09:44 -0400
Paolo wrote:

> The 50% of the software running *today* in the world is written in COBOL.
^^^^^

AAARRRGH! Cough, sputter, gag. Bad language, bad, bad!
Sorry, I feel better now :)
-----

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Message no. 57
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:22:01 -0400
>>>>> "Stefan" == Stefan Struck
<struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
>>>>> writes:

>> The 50% of the software running *today* in the world is written in COBOL.
Stefan> Don't say that evil word with C. I hate this "language" and I
Stefan> know C. good. Long story, not told here. Writing whole sentences
Stefan> just to give a variable a value isn't just my style.

Well, think about it. What language would you use to write code for
manipulation of tremendously huge databases, C or COBOL? I'd use COBOL
because, for all of it's initial verbosity it's still the most concise
language in the world for manipulating huge database structures. And
that's the 50% Paolo is talking about.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 58
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:34:21 -0400
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
>The 50% of the software running *today* in the world is written in COBOL.

Did you have to remind me...I *Hate* COBOL. If all these programs were
written in some other language, most systems would only need about half
the space they currently had.

Of course, it's the language I'm probably going to be writing in for the
rest of my life....*sigh* :(

>>>>>> Nate, the hopeless C++ lover.
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| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| Vax/VMS Guru (sad, but true) |
| |
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| gets all my press? This town needs an enema! |
| - Joker |
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Message no. 59
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: Off topic: Windows 95
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 09:26:17 +0200
Rat wrote:
> Stefan> Don't say that evil word with C. I hate this "language" and I
> Stefan> know C. good. Long story, not told here. Writing whole sentences
> Stefan> just to give a variable a value isn't just my style.
>
> Well, think about it. What language would you use to write code for
> manipulation of tremendously huge databases, C or COBOL? I'd use COBOL
> because, for all of it's initial verbosity it's still the most concise
> language in the world for manipulating huge database structures. And
> that's the 50% Paolo is talking about.
>
Yes, I now. Once upon a time I did Cobol programming on a IBM mainframe,
I think it was a 3070 or something like that. I think the most important
think is that the databases are large and old (in relation to the age
of computer science), during my education I have to program cobol, fortran
(the old stuff) and PL1, these were the good (bad) old times.
But you're right, rat, Cobol isn't that bad (if you got a generator to do
most of the work 8), but I still doesn't like it.
bye,
Stefan
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e-mail: struck@****.informatik.uni-bonn.de
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...but there's nothing like having your friends show up with lots of guns.
-Frank Miller, The Big Fat Kill
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