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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bob Ooton)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Sat Mar 10 16:50:01 2001
It's been a while since I was last here, but I see a few familiar
names are still around and that's good... =)

Anyway, I've decided to take a break from my recent gaming habits and
give the old beloved game another shot. SR and BT are still my two
favorite game settings, after all. Have only the main book for SR3,
but planning on getting more before starting over from scratch.

That said, I know all about the death of the company and the sale of
SR and BT (and I'm glad to see both lines are still in good hands, but
sad to see the old corp go). I also know that there are a lot of bugs
in the system that I haven't had time to work through just yet.
That's where you guys come in =)

Basically, is there anything that you guys consider to be outright
broken under the new system or any official errata that I could find?
I haven't even so much as opened a copy of any post-SR3 book, so I'm
working from a clean slate here. You guys do the most with the
system, so I figure you're the one's to ask first before I hop back
in. =)

Anyway, it's good to be back and I may have some fanfic to throw into
the srfanfic list sometime - old stuff that never got past the first
chapter or two back before the update. I'll more or less be a lurker
for a while til I get my bearings again, so don't expect any
manifestos anytime soon. I've calmed a bit since those days... heh.

Later!
--
Bob Ooton
<rbooton@*****.edu>
<bobooton@********.net>
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam J)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Sat Mar 10 17:00:01 2001
At 14:33 10/03/2001, Bob Ooton wrote:

>Basically, is there anything that you guys consider to be outright
>broken under the new system or any official errata that I could find?

Official errata can be found at http://hlair.dumpshock.com/errindex.php3

(And, uh, welcome back!)

Adam
--
< http://tss.dumpshock.com : http://www.jillted.org >
< adamj@*********.com | ICQ# 2350330 | TSS Productions >
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Sat Mar 10 23:15:01 2001
--- Bob Ooton <bobooton@********.net> wrote:
> Anyway, it's good to be back and I may have some fanfic to throw
into the srfanfic list sometime - old stuff that never got past the
first chapter or two back before the update. I'll more or less be ua
lurker for a while til I get my bearings again, so don't expect any
manifestos anytime soon. I've calmed a bit since those days... heh.

Bob! Buddy! I actually don't think I know you... but regardless,
if you've got fiction, t'would be best you get yourself over to the
Shadowrun Writer's Forum:

http://pub10.ezboard.com/bshadowrunwritersforum

to share it. If you don't mind :) We'd sure appreciate it.

====-Boondocker

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Mon Mar 12 06:05:13 2001
According to Bob Ooton, on Sat, 10 Mar 2001 the word on the street was...

> It's been a while since I was last here, but I see a few familiar
> names are still around and that's good... =)

Well, there's a name I haven't seen on my screen for a couple of years...
Welcome back :)

> Basically, is there anything that you guys consider to be outright
> broken under the new system or any official errata that I could find?

Nothing comes to my mind immediately, but I'm sure I will be reminded of
something when I read the rest of this thread :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kogels houden van mensen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (David Buehrer)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Mon Mar 12 09:50:01 2001
At 03:33 PM 3/10/01 -0600, Bob Ooton wrote:
>It's been a while since I was last here, but I see a few familiar names
>are still around and that's good... =)

Topcat! :)

>Basically, is there anything that you guys consider to be outright broken
>under the new system or any official errata that I could find? I haven't
>even so much as opened a copy of any post-SR3 book, so I'm working from a
>clean slate here. You guys do the most with the system, so I figure
>you're the one's to ask first before I hop back in. =)

The initiative system has be reworked quite a bit. It's not broken, but
you'll either like it or you won't :)

>Anyway, it's good to be back and I may have some fanfic to throw into the
>srfanfic list sometime - old stuff that never got past the first chapter
>or two back before the update. I'll more or less be a lurker for a while
>til I get my bearings again, so don't expect any manifestos anytime
>soon. I've calmed a bit since those days... heh.

Aw ;) You know, I held on to that manifesto for about three years before I
lost it in a computer crash. You wouldn't happened to have saved a copy of
that would you? :)

Welcome back.

To Life,
-Graht
--
To Life,
-Graht
--
"Apparently I'm insane. But I'm one of the happy kinds!"
-Wally
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Mon Mar 12 10:00:01 2001
David Buehrer writes:

> >It's been a while since I was last here, but I see a few familiar names
> >are still around and that's good... =)
>
> Topcat! :)

Greetings to the Chief of the Mohicans ... long time no see. Welcome back!

> The initiative system has be reworked quite a bit. It's not broken, but
> you'll either like it or you won't :)

IIRC, seeing as it reduces Street Samurais' effectiveness in combat compared
to other character types, TopCat will undoubtably dislike it... <grin>

> Aw ;) You know, I held on to that manifesto for about three years before I
> lost it in a computer crash. You wouldn't happened to have saved a copy of
> that would you? :)

Me Too! <grin> I was away for three months when the whole TopCat Manifesto
thing happened. I came back to a strange, alien world where things just
weren't the same. I could tell that a significant event had transpired in
my absence, one that had changed the way the list behaved and operated. It
felt somewhat like coming home to my hometown after a world war had seen it
in the front lines for six months. Everyone was wandering around
shellshocked. There were smoking craters around every corner. People were
missing. Survivors had changed.

I wouldn't mind seeing the bombshell that started it all...

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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M-- V- PS+ PE(-) Y+>++ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X++>+++ R+(++) !tv(--) b+ DI+++@
D G+ e++>++++$ h(*) r++ y-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Mon Mar 12 17:15:01 2001
--part1_59.809beaa.27dea493_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 3/12/01 10:03:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dam01@***.edu.au writes:


> I wouldn't mind seeing the bombshell that started it all...

Same here...

--part1_59.809beaa.27dea493_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
3/12/01 10:03:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR>dam01@***.edu.au writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I wouldn't mind seeing the
bombshell that started it all...</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Same here...</FONT></HTML>

--part1_59.809beaa.27dea493_boundary--
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bob Ooton)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Mon Mar 12 20:55:01 2001
DemonPenta@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/12/01 10:03:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> dam01@***.edu.au writes

>> I wouldn't mind seeing the bombshell that started it all...

> Same here...

A buddy of mine had a copy that he told me about not too long ago. I
think I have one on my old 486, but finding that thing among all my
junk will be more effort than my lazy self will be up to for a while.
It'd probably be easier to rummage through the archives looking for
a copy of it, though I seem to remember that it got corrupted at least
in part. I'll email my friend and see if he still happens to have it
around.

Basically, it (The TopCat Manifesto) was me stating - albeit in a
somewhat inflammatory manner - all of my various opinions on some
recurring threads back in the SR2 days. I had wanted similar posts
from everyone so that we could have a larger view of what everyone
thought on these subjects as well as why they thought so, then put the
posts on a website somewhere so we could direct new listmembers to
them to get ideas of what the list was about as well as clear out some
of the recurring threads.

It didn't exactly go down as planned... heh.

Every bit of the rather large Manifesto was debated by a large portion
of the list and I - having a lot of free time on my hands and refusing
to back down - replied to every single posting that came in on it. As
I mentioned in the opening of this thread, I used to be a little more
high strung about list topics and it grew way out of hand. Flames
burned, insults were hurled, threads became a gnarled tangle of
replies and renames, the server groaned with stress, and I learned to
type faster than I ever had before.

I don't know how or why it ever died out, but I can say I was glad
when it did. =)

As for how my views go now... well, I am just breaking out the copy of
SR3 I have (a signed hardback from GenCon - was it '98? Hmm... sounds
right) so I haven't gotten into the particulars just yet. I'm still a
big cyberware guy, so that hasn't changed. I don't have the absolute
disdain for physads and mages that I did before - it's more like pity,
now... heheheh.

Truthfully, I could play either now and not really care. I've dropped
the need for dice (as well as the means used to get them) for a need
for characterization. I'm still a rules lawyer, so I'm sure there'll
be some disputes in the future as I get into the game fully again =)

I just looked over initiatve rules and I'm not particularly upset with
them in any regard, so that's good. I've probably forgotten more than
I remember from SR2, and that'll likely help me with the transition too.

That said, I'll wrap this up, prepare an email to find out whatever
happened to the manifesto, and get back to my regularly scheduled
lurking. Later! =)
--
Bob Ooton
<rbooton@*****.edu>
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (abortion_engine)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Tue Mar 13 01:05:01 2001
From: "Scott W" <see_scott_run@*****.com>
> --- Bob Ooton <bobooton@********.net> wrote:
> > Anyway, it's good to be back and I may have some fanfic to throw
> into the srfanfic list sometime - old stuff that never got past the
> first chapter or two back before the update. I'll more or less be ua
> lurker for a while til I get my bearings again, so don't expect any
> manifestos anytime soon. I've calmed a bit since those days... heh.
>
> Bob! Buddy! I actually don't think I know you... but regardless,
> if you've got fiction, t'would be best you get yourself over to the
> Shadowrun Writer's Forum:
>
> http://pub10.ezboard.com/bshadowrunwritersforum
>
> to share it. If you don't mind :) We'd sure appreciate it.

If someone could /please/ explain how that board could have existed without
my ever having heard about it, I'd really appreciate it. :)

Well, there goes the rest of my "free time." I may not be about there this
week - still working 70+ hours a week - but I will be about soon, I assure
you. Mwah-ha-ha-ha.
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Tue Mar 13 01:15:01 2001
<snipt!(TM)>
> > Bob! Buddy! I actually don't think I know
you... but regardless, if you've got fiction, t'would
be best you get yourself over to the Shadowrun
Writer's Forum:
> >
> > http://pub10.ezboard.com/bshadowrunwritersforum
> >
> > to share it. If you don't mind :) We'd sure
appreciate it.
>
> If someone could /please/ explain how that board
could have existed without my ever having heard about
it, I'd really appreciate it. :)

We're elitist. Very elitist. We're so elitist, we
forget to tell other people we exist. ;)

> Well, there goes the rest of my "free time." I may
not be about there this week - still working 70+ hours
a week - but I will be about soon, I assure you.
Mwah-ha-ha-ha.

Uh-oh...be gentle with us, ae.

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Tue Mar 13 05:40:17 2001
According to Bob Ooton, on Tue, 13 Mar 2001 the word on the street was...

> It'd probably be easier to rummage through the archives looking for
> a copy of it, though I seem to remember that it got corrupted at least
> in part.

What, that one too? (The copy I saved back then got damaged in a HD crash
from which I managed to recover about 90% of my ShadowRN mail folder
(important things first! :) but which unfortunately left a gap in the
middle of the Manifesto...)

> Every bit of the rather large Manifesto was debated by a large portion
> of the list

Those were the days...

> As for how my views go now... well, I am just breaking out the copy of
> SR3 I have (a signed hardback from GenCon - was it '98? Hmm... sounds
> right)

It was. You can thank Keith for the line you had to wait in to get it ;)

> I just looked over initiatve rules and I'm not particularly upset with
> them in any regard, so that's good. I've probably forgotten more than
> I remember from SR2, and that'll likely help me with the transition too.

It will, certainly. Even now I'm still quoting SR2 rules if I'm not
careful, especially because I can never seem to find the new rules in
SR3-era books when I need them :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kogels houden van mensen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Tue Mar 13 07:00:01 2001
>> Shadowrun Writer's Forum:
>> http://pub10.ezboard.com/bshadowrunwritersforum

> If someone could /please/ explain how that board could have existed
without my ever having heard about it, I'd really appreciate it. :)

Well, we suck at advertising. That's what it comes down to, bud.
I thought maybe I'd start (and look ma, advertising really works!)

> Well, there goes the rest of my "free time." I may not be about
there this week - still working 70+ hours a week - but I will be
about soon, I assure you. Mwah-ha-ha-ha.

Hurrah! Someone who'll actually criticize! Yippee-skippee,
woohoo, etc. Be nice, eh? ;)

-Boondocker

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (abortion_engine)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Wed Mar 14 00:00:01 2001
From: "Rand Ratinac" <docwagon101@*****.com>
> <snipt!(TM)>
> > > Bob! Buddy! I actually don't think I know
> you... but regardless, if you've got fiction, t'would
> be best you get yourself over to the Shadowrun
> Writer's Forum:
> > >
> > > http://pub10.ezboard.com/bshadowrunwritersforum
> > >
> > > to share it. If you don't mind :) We'd sure
> appreciate it.
> >
> > If someone could /please/ explain how that board
> could have existed without my ever having heard about
> it, I'd really appreciate it. :)
>
> We're elitist. Very elitist. We're so elitist, we
> forget to tell other people we exist. ;)

"Most Secret: Burn Before Reading."

> > Well, there goes the rest of my "free time." I may
> not be about there this week - still working 70+ hours
> a week - but I will be about soon, I assure you.
> Mwah-ha-ha-ha.
>
> Uh-oh...be gentle with us, ae.

Are you kidding? I'm hoping all of /you/ will be gentle with /me!/
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Old Dogs & New Tricks
Date: Wed Mar 14 01:35:01 2001
> > > If someone could /please/ explain how that board
could have existed without my ever having heard about
it, I'd really appreciate it. :)
> >
> > We're elitist. Very elitist. We're so elitist, we
forget to tell other people we exist. ;)
>
> "Most Secret: Burn Before Reading."

Precisely.

> > > Well, there goes the rest of my "free time." I
may not be about there this week - still working 70+
hours a week - but I will be about soon, I assure you.
Mwah-ha-ha-ha.
> >
> > Uh-oh...be gentle with us, ae.
>
> Are you kidding? I'm hoping all of /you/ will be
gentle with /me!/

Hah!

Fat chance.

Boonie and I are going to be TELLING the others about
YOU, ae...

*snicker*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Further Reading

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