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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Dark Poet <rivenmysts@*******.COM>
Subject: Old Guns
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:58:12 PDT
I am curious about something and have been wondering what input the list
has.

Me and a group of friends have put togehter a list of weapons we would
like to have shadowrun stats for, I agreed to do a write up or look for
them on the net. But I wanted o ask here if anyone knows wehre Ican
find stats for some of these weapons or could e-mail them to me
privately.

Colt .45 Peacemaker (19th century model)
M-16
Desert Eagle
.750 Nitro Express
9mm Baretta
.38 Saturday Night Special
Thompsan Sub-machinegun

Chainsaw
Dia-Katana
Wakazashi (sp?) its the companion sword for the katana
Stilleto (medieval style)

Large Pointy Stick (I was told at stick point to ask this one)

well thanks for any return input

-Dark Poet, Bard of the Ashes

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Message no. 2
From: Death Imp <leprekhorn@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:18:51 PDT
>I am curious about something and have been wondering what input the
list
>has.
>
>Me and a group of friends have put togehter a list of weapons we would
>like to have shadowrun stats for, I agreed to do a write up or look for
>them on the net. But I wanted o ask here if anyone knows wehre Ican
>find stats for some of these weapons or could e-mail them to me
>privately.
>
>Colt .45 Peacemaker (19th century model)
>M-16
>Desert Eagle
>.750 Nitro Express
>9mm Baretta
>.38 Saturday Night Special
>Thompsan Sub-machinegun
>
>Chainsaw
>Dia-Katana
>Wakazashi (sp?) its the companion sword for the katana
>Stilleto (medieval style)
>
>Large Pointy Stick (I was told at stick point to ask this one)
>
>well thanks for any return input
>
>-Dark Poet, Bard of the Ashes
>
The best thing to do would be to go flying around the webring, looking
for any sites with weapons. The chainsaw (as someone mentioned to me)
should have a damage code of about 6S, no concealability, 250Y + fuel,
full power vs. barriers.
Whoohooahahahha,
The Leprekhorn

Do they still have SPAM in the year 2 billion A.D.?
- Pinky

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Message no. 3
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:46:23 -0500
>Colt .45 Peacemaker (19th century model)

Stats for this in Harlequins Back.

-Teeg
Message no. 4
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Old Guns
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:53:04 -0400
Dark Poet--

>M-16
>Desert Eagle
>.750 Nitro Express
>9mm Baretta
>.38 Saturday Night Special
>Thompsan Sub-machinegun

M-16 = assault rifle. 8M damage, 20 round magazines standard.
Desert Eagle = What caliber? Never mind. All the pistol caliber=
s
fall in the Heavy Pistol category. 9M. Ammo capacity varies due to
different calibers. SA.
9mm Beretta = Heavy Pistol. 15 rounds. 9M. SA.

.38 Saturday Night Special = DOES NOT EXIST! NO SUCH WEAPON!

.38 caliber revolver = Light Pistol. 6L. 6 shots. SA.
Thomson Submachinegun = SMG damage, SMG range. 20 or 50 round
magazines available.
.750 Nitro Express = This is a rifle round. Use Ranger Arms SM-=
3
stats or Walther WA-2000 stats.

Shadowmage
Message no. 5
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:01:23 -0500
On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:53:04 -0400 Tarek Okail
<Tarek_Okail@**********.COM> writes:
>Dark Poet--
<SNIP>
> .38 Saturday Night Special = DOES NOT EXIST! NO SUCH WEAPON!

Perhaps he meant the S&W 36 Chief's Special (.38 Caliber)?

> .38 caliber revolver = Light Pistol. 6L. 6 shots. SA.
<SNIP>
>Shadowmage =

In which it'd have the above stats ... except revolvers are SS not SA.

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 6
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:05:37 -0400
Tarek Okail wrote:


> .38 Saturday Night Special = DOES NOT EXIST! NO SUCH WEAPON!

hee. Well, it exists, but it's not a gun unto itself, Dark Poet.
Saturday Night Special is a term used for, I believe, a very cheap
handgun bought on the streets.

--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 7
From: Christopher Kelly <data_haven@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:53:57 -0700
Jett wrote:

> .38 Saturday Night Special = DOES NOT EXIST! NO SUCH WEAPON!
> hee. Well, it exists, but it's not a gun unto itself, Dark Poet.
> Saturday Night Special is a term used for, I believe, a very cheap
> handgun bought on the streets.
>
> --Jett

Actually, we use the term "Saturday Night Special" to refer to an overly
flashy, not overly efficient, usually way too large to be practical
"Dirty Harry" type of gun.

Not trying to flame anyone here. Just putting my two yen in.

--Data Haven
Message no. 8
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:16:00 -0500
>> .38 Saturday Night Special = DOES NOT EXIST! NO SUCH WEAPON!
>> hee. Well, it exists, but it's not a gun unto itself, Dark Poet.
>> Saturday Night Special is a term used for, I believe, a very cheap
>> handgun bought on the streets.
>
>Actually, we use the term "Saturday Night Special" to refer to an
>overly flashy, not overly efficient, usually way too large to be
>practical "Dirty Harry" type of gun.

Interesting definition, but Jett's is the more accurate. That's the
definition of "Saturday night special" I've seen bandied about for the last
20 years or so.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 9
From: Death Imp <leprekhorn@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 00:52:05 PDT
>Dark Poet--
>
>>M-16
>>Desert Eagle
>>.750 Nitro Express
>>9mm Baretta
>>.38 Saturday Night Special
>>Thompsan Sub-machinegun
>
> M-16 = assault rifle. 8M damage, 20 round magazines standard.
> Desert Eagle = What caliber? Never mind. All the pistol
caliber=
>s
>fall in the Heavy Pistol category. 9M. Ammo capacity varies due to
>different calibers. SA.
> 9mm Beretta = Heavy Pistol. 15 rounds. 9M. SA.
>
> .38 Saturday Night Special = DOES NOT EXIST! NO SUCH WEAPON!
>
> .38 caliber revolver = Light Pistol. 6L. 6 shots. SA.
> Thomson Submachinegun = SMG damage, SMG range. 20 or 50 round
>magazines available.
> .750 Nitro Express = This is a rifle round. Use Ranger Arms
SM-=
>3
>stats or Walther WA-2000 stats.
>
>Shadowmage =
>


The Desert Eagle actually has a larger calibre, so Dam could 10M, with
+1 recoil and reduced ammo capacity, say about 10 - 12 rounds.

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Message no. 10
From: Christopher Kelly <data_haven@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 01:07:48 -0700
Death Imp wrote:

> The Desert Eagle actually has a larger calibre, so Dam could 10M, with
> +1 recoil and reduced ammo capacity, say about 10 - 12 rounds.

To be precise, the Desert Eagle comes in three flavors of
magnum. .357 which shoots relatively straight & makes a big hole; .41
which shoots less straight & makes an even bigger hole; or .44 which
won't hit anything beyond thirty or forty feet with any kind of
accuracy, but will completely remove any limb it is fired at.
Or if you're not the magnum type, they also make <my personal
fave> the .50 caliber which will hit anything the size of a barn and
blow a hole roughly the size of Nebraska.
With that in mind, Dmg could vary between 9M & 10M quite
realistically.

--Data Haven

Resident "Firearms aficionado" (Read:Gun Nut)
Message no. 11
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:47:06 -0400
Tarek didst sayeth:

> M-16 = assault rifle. 8M damage, 20 round magazines standard.
> Desert Eagle = What caliber? Never mind. All the pistol calibers
>fall in the Heavy Pistol category. 9M. Ammo capacity varies due to
>different calibers. SA.

Don't forget the heavy weapon recoil...if any handgunb deserves it, I'd say
the 0.50AE does.

> 9mm Beretta = Heavy Pistol. 15 rounds. 9M. SA.


Light pistol. 6L...17 rounds. I'm basing this on the fact that the clone
of the 93R which is a 9mm, the 200ST is a light pistol.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 12
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:21:34 EDT
In a message dated 9/1/98 0:18:16 AM AST, data_haven@*********.COM writes:

> Actually, we use the term "Saturday Night Special" to refer to an overly
> flashy, not overly efficient, usually way too large to be practical
> "Dirty Harry" type of gun.
>

In the streets the term Saturday Night Special refers to small caliber ( .22,
.25, .32 and some would add .38) easy to conceal, cheap to buy pistols of
questionable reliable. Some even call "zip guns" which are homemade as
Saturday Night Specials.
Message no. 13
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:12:32 -0400
Jett--

>Saturday Night Special is a term used for, I believe, a very cheap
>handgun bought on the streets.

Not in .38 Special. <g> All the guns I know of in that caliber ru=
n
around $300 - $400.
You want cheap, you go for the Raven Arms .25 caliber. $150 bucks=
,
at most. In Shadowrun terms, this one does 3L damage, 7 shots. It's a
blinkin' holdout pistol. Due to its size, I'd probably call it an SS. And=

it's pretty much useless as a defense gun unless you get *real* lucky.
Or you can try the little .22 Long Rifle revolver. $120, 5 shots,=

SS, 3L damage. It's really small, though, less than three long.
There are really badly made handguns out on the market, in Third
World countries. These tend to explode when fired, and otherwise
malfunction a lot.

Shadowmage
Message no. 14
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:12:30 -0400
Duncan--

>Light pistol. 6L...17 rounds. I'm basing this on the fact that the
>clone of the 93R which is a 9mm, the 200ST is a light pistol.

It always struck me that Shadowrun pistol damages are based on th=
e
IPSC definitions of "major" and "minor" classes. The 9mm is one of the
fe=
w
rounds that can straddle that boundary, given that you can load up the 9m=
m
safely and make the "major" class.
Still, I suppose that 9mm is generally considered a "minor" class=

round, therefore 6L would be appropriate.

Shadowmage
Message no. 15
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:12:31 -0400
D. Imp--

>The Desert Eagle actually has a larger calibre, so Dam could 10M, with
>+1 recoil and reduced ammo capacity, say about 10 - 12 rounds.

Try more like 7+1. 7 rounds in the magazine and one in the chambe=
r.
I couldn't fit more than that into the .50 AE version I had, and the .357=

and .44 magnum versions aren't that different.
All right, I see the point about 10M damage. Recoil *is* a
sumbitch, too. Even considering how heavy the gun was, the .50 AE had one=

heck of a kick.

Shadowmage
Message no. 16
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:12:33 -0400
D. Ghost--

>In which it'd have the above stats ... except revolvers are SS not SA.

Details, details. <g>

Shadowmage
Message no. 17
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:16:37 -0700
> In the streets the term Saturday Night Special refers to small caliber ( .22,
> .25, .32 and some would add .38) easy to conceal, cheap to buy pistols of
> questionable reliable. Some even call "zip guns" which are homemade as
> Saturday Night Specials.

Thus the term .38 Special...

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 18
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Old Guns
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:28:25 +0000
> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:16:37 -0700
> From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
> Subject: Re: Old Guns


> > In the streets the term Saturday Night Special refers to small caliber ( .22,
> > .25, .32 and some would add .38) easy to conceal, cheap to buy pistols of
> > questionable reliable. Some even call "zip guns" which are homemade as
> > Saturday Night Specials.
>
> Thus the term .38 Special...
>

Nice try, but historicly incorrect. The ".38 Special" is the designation for a
more powerful .38 caliber pistol round introduced at the begining of the
twentith century (c. 1905). It represented a major improvement over existing
.38 cartridges in both power and accuracy. The .38 Special propelled a 158
grain bullet at 870 feet per second. The .38 Colt New Police (150 grains at
695 fps) was typcal of the existing .38 cartridges. The "Special" designation
being an advertising or marketing affectation, like adding the letters "GT"
to an automobile name.

In the 1930s an new cartridge was developed using an lengthen .38 Special
case. It was the .357 Magnum (158 gr at 1430 fps). Pistols chambered for .357
Magnum can safely fire .38 special ammunition. The reverse is not the case.

The term "Saturday Night Special" is the creation of the American press for a
class of guns that does not exist. Much the same way "Assault Weapon" is used
today by the media to cover eveything from the Browning High Power to M-16 and
AK-47 look a likes. The term sounds good but is meaningless.





David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
******************************************************
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve niether liberty or
safety.
Ben Franklin

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Old Guns, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!