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Message no. 1
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:08:50 EST
On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 18:05:10 +1000 "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD"
<s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU> writes:
>> As a Shaman or an adept of some sort..Depending on the leanings of
>> the character...
>
>As a physical mage, with a lot of in-character restrictions on the
>types
>of spells allowed. A straight out phys. ad. can't do all the things
>that
>a jedi can. Mind control is in, damaging manipulations are out.
>

Be a little more specific. Exactly what kind of powers would a Jedi have?




>It'd have to be a GM decision every time the player wanted to learna
>new
>spell. Things like levitate, influence and suggestion are in.
>
>Outright Control Thoughts is for the dark side.... So's Spark.
>
>Then, in shadowrun playing a dark side jedi is possible..... though
>probably not a fun thing to do. You could play one tron between the
>'light' and the 'dark'.
>
>Hell, at least they wouldn't be outright pacifists; Luke kills enough
>faceless baddies in the movies.

Ahh...I've actually listened to why Obi-wan and Yoda couldn't go out and
save the galaxy, despite the fact that they were the two most powerful
Jedi Masters in existence (at the time, anyway). The reason being that
you get to the point that, if you follow the good half of the Force, you
become a pacifist. The reason that Yoda and Obi-wan had to seek out Luke
to destroy the Emperor and Darth Vader was that they were incapable of it
themselves-they simply could not kill. They were powerful enough, they
simply could not bring themselves to commit such an action. Luke could,
because he wasn't that far into their beliefs, he hadn't consigned
himself entirely to either side yet.



>
>Perhaps there should be a roleplaying flaw that any jedi knight has to
>have an attack of morals when facing a major enemy, and must try and
>redeem him. *grin*

Seriously, I could see giving a 'good' Jedi the Pacifist (or even 'Total
Pacifist') Flaw, while a dark Jedi would pick up Vindictive, or something
similar.



--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 2
From: Amper <amper@****.DATANET.HU>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:21:22 +0100
> Be a little more specific. Exactly what kind of powers would a Jedi have?

See the Star Wars-The Role Play, Second Edition. This wrote all the Jedi
Powers very good.
--
,--\/----\/----\/----\/----\/-,
l / l
l AmpeR by Hungary /_ l
l Programmer & RPG player / l
l amper@****.datanet.hu / l
l \/ l
l_/\/\__/\/\__/\/\__/\/\__/\/\l
Message no. 3
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:58:15 -0500
> Seriously, I could see giving a 'good' Jedi the Pacifist (or even 'Total
> Pacifist') Flaw, while a dark Jedi would pick up Vindictive, or something
> similar.

Hmm ... funny, for a pacifist, Obi Wan had no trouble lopping off that
dude's arm in the first flick! :-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"I just got to run SR again after a several month hiatus, and am I STOKED!"
Message no. 4
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:58:53 EST
On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:21:22 +0100 Amper <amper@****.datanet.hu> writes:
>> Be a little more specific. Exactly what kind of powers would a Jedi
>have?
>
>See the Star Wars-The Role Play, Second Edition. This wrote all the
>Jedi
>Powers very good.

I'll look into asking a friend of mine, since he plays/played the Star
Wars RPG.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 5
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:22:17 EST
On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:58:15 -0500 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>> Seriously, I could see giving a 'good' Jedi the Pacifist (or even
>'Total
>> Pacifist') Flaw, while a dark Jedi would pick up Vindictive, or
>something
>> similar.
>
>Hmm ... funny, for a pacifist, Obi Wan had no trouble lopping off that
>dude's arm in the first flick! :-)

But he didn't _kill_ him, which would have been necessary to save the
galaxy. And he was doing it in the defense of someone else (Luke).

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 6
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:16:20 -0500
Date: 30 Mar 97 Time: 14:08
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force

TO: L Canthros

> Ahh...I've actually listened to why Obi-wan and Yoda couldn't go
> out and save the galaxy, despite the fact that they were the two
> most powerful Jedi Masters in existence (at the time, anyway). The
> reason being that you get to the point that, if you follow the good
> half of the Force, you become a pacifist. The reason that Yoda and
> Obi-wan had to seek out Luke to destroy the Emperor and Darth Vader
> was that they were incapable of it themselves-they simply could not
> kill. They were powerful enough, they simply could not bring
> themselves to commit such an action. Luke could, because he wasn't
> that far into their beliefs, he hadn't consigned himself entirely
> to either side yet.

That's the theory proposed in the Black Fleet Crisis novels. It
didn't really "feel correct" to me. You know how some things just
evoke a reaction at a very basic level? :)

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

Thought for the day:
Advertising (n): the science of arresting the human
intelligence for long enough to get money from it.
-- Stephen Leacock.
Message no. 7
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:05:39 +1000
> >As a physical mage, with a lot of in-character restrictions on the
> >types
> >of spells allowed. A straight out phys. ad. can't do all the things
> >that
> >a jedi can. Mind control is in, damaging manipulations are out.
> >
>
> Be a little more specific. Exactly what kind of powers would a Jedi have?
>
Use the movies and the better novels as a guide.

Zahn's books are good, but I think the rest of them are filler, or worse.

> >Perhaps there should be a roleplaying flaw that any jedi knight has to
> >have an attack of morals when facing a major enemy, and must try and
> >redeem him. *grin*
>
> Seriously, I could see giving a 'good' Jedi the Pacifist (or even 'Total
> Pacifist') Flaw, while a dark Jedi would pick up Vindictive, or something
> similar.
>

Perhaps as a result of higher initiations.
Message no. 8
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:02:59 -0500
> >Hmm ... funny, for a pacifist, Obi Wan had no trouble lopping off that
> >dude's arm in the first flick! :-)
>
> But he didn't _kill_ him, which would have been necessary to save the
> galaxy. And he was doing it in the defense of someone else (Luke).

And of course he couldn't just use a Jedi Mind Trick to convince the guy to
go away?
Or maybe to make Luke and himself invisible?
Or put the two goons to sleep?

Geez ... these Jedi must be suckier than I thought! :-)

<IMO Obi-Wan's just an old dirty bastard! :-)>

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"I just got to run SR again after a several month hiatus, and am I STOKED!"
Message no. 9
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:12:43 EST
On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:05:39 +1000 "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD"
<s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU> writes:
>> >As a physical mage, with a lot of in-character restrictions on the
>> >types
>> >of spells allowed. A straight out phys. ad. can't do all the things
>> >that
>> >a jedi can. Mind control is in, damaging manipulations are out.
>> >
>>
>> Be a little more specific. Exactly what kind of powers would a Jedi
have?
>>
>Use the movies and the better novels as a guide.

Would you believe that I don't have that much time (between school, Boy
Scouts, and the list:) ?



>Zahn's books are good, but I think the rest of them are filler, or
>worse.

Wouldn't know, only read Zahn's novels.


>> >Perhaps there should be a roleplaying flaw that any jedi knight has
to
>> >have an attack of morals when facing a major enemy, and must try and
>> >redeem him. *grin*
>>
>> Seriously, I could see giving a 'good' Jedi the Pacifist (or even
'Total
>> Pacifist') Flaw, while a dark Jedi would pick up Vindictive, or
something
>> similar.
>>
>
>Perhaps as a result of higher initiations.
>

That would work.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 10
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:25:13 EST
On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:02:59 -0500 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>> >Hmm ... funny, for a pacifist, Obi Wan had no trouble lopping off
>that
>> >dude's arm in the first flick! :-)
>>
>> But he didn't _kill_ him, which would have been necessary to save
>the
>> galaxy. And he was doing it in the defense of someone else (Luke).
>
>And of course he couldn't just use a Jedi Mind Trick to convince the
>guy to go away?

Didn't have time.


>Or maybe to make Luke and himself invisible?

I don't think the Jedi can do that.


>Or put the two goons to sleep?

Didn't have time.


>
>Geez ... these Jedi must be suckier than I thought! :-)

Oh, I wouldn't say that. 'Sides, you don't have to be entirely on one
side or the other:)


>
><IMO Obi-Wan's just an old dirty bastard! :-)>

Might be:)



--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 11
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:45:35 -0500
At 04:16 PM 3/30/97 -0500, Shaun Sides wrote these timeless words:

>That's the theory proposed in the Black Fleet Crisis novels. It
>didn't really "feel correct" to me. You know how some things just
>evoke a reaction at a very basic level? :)
>
That whole series didn't quite feel right to me, so...:)

And I don't agree that obi was a pacifist... But killing the guy in the
bar would have been more than necessary... Once the thug was
incapacitated, the fighting was over... killing wasn't necessary...

>a chaoidh teabadaich,
>
And I still want to know what this mean...:]

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 12
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 02:00:03 -0500
At 08:25 PM 3/30/97 EST, L Canthros wrote these timeless words:

>>And of course he couldn't just use a Jedi Mind Trick to convince the
>>guy to go away?
>
>Didn't have time.
>
That, and the fact that the mind has to be a little bit open... you can't
completely change someone's mind, without completely Mind Controlling
him... and the Mind Trick that Obi used was actually a "Suggestion" type
power... He could place a thought in the mind, but not actually compell
him to do something without controlling the mind, which is strictly a Dark
Side power, subject to Dark Force points (Bad things, if you aren't
familiar with the SW RPG)

>>Or maybe to make Luke and himself invisible?
>
>I don't think the Jedi can do that.
>
Well... not really... They can do the "I'm not really here" trick, also
known as the S.E.P. field (Somebody Else's Problem) to avoid being noticed,
but you can't do that when the guy you want to hide from is trying to kill
you and looking right at you...

>>Or put the two goons to sleep?
>
>Didn't have time.
>
Once more, you are correct...

Jedi powers take some time to use, and simply put, Obi-Wan wasn't always a
nice guy...:]

>>Geez ... these Jedi must be suckier than I thought! :-)
>
>Oh, I wouldn't say that. 'Sides, you don't have to be entirely on one
>side or the other:)
>
Well, actually, you do... tehre isn't much middle ground... Once you hit
the dividing point between Good and Evil as a Jedi, you kinda have to
choose, or you will get dragged to the Darkside pretty quickly... Or you
will spend a LOT of time fighting off the Dark Side...

There are no Neutral Jedi... Other characters can be Neutral, sure... Han
Solo was definately a Neutral Character in the first movie, right up until
the end of the movie...

Anyways, i'll have more later...

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 13
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 13:55:04 +1000
> >a chaoidh teabadaich,
> >
> And I still want to know what this mean...:]
>

Looks either welsh or (gasp) Sperethiel.
Message no. 14
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 02:16:04 -0500
At 10:21 PM 3/30/97 +0100, Amper wrote these timeless words:
>> Be a little more specific. Exactly what kind of powers would a Jedi have?
>
>See the Star Wars-The Role Play, Second Edition. This wrote all the Jedi
>Powers very good.
>
I'm gonna make an effort, very soon, to convert the Jedi to SR...

Look for it either here, or in the TSS #3...:)

Bull-the-Star-Wars-fanatical-Ork-Decker
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 15
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:11:48 +1000
> > >a chaoidh teabadaich,
> > >
> > And I still want to know what this mean...:]
> >
> Looks either welsh or (gasp) Sperethiel.

*grin* Doesn't have enough Ls for Welsh. Must be Oirish. :)

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 16
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 07:57:15 -0500
Date: 31 Mar 97 Time: 1:45
Subject: Re: One w/ the Force

TO: Bull

> That whole series didn't quite feel right to me, so...:)
>
> And I don't agree that obi was a pacifist... But killing the guy in
> the bar would have been more than necessary... Once the thug was
> incapacitated, the fighting was over... killing wasn't necessary...

I thought that series was good, except the part about Luke. Didn't
care for it too much. Well, and the deal with the super users of the
Force that isn't really the Force was ... pushing it. :)

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

Thought for the day:
Bagpipes (n): an octopus wearing a kilt.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about One w/ the Force, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!