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Message no. 1
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 05:03:06 -0500
Okay, this is the last one of these I'm sending out... I swear.

There is a drawback to anyone who decides to try and lead one of the online
communities in some manner or form. They are then the figureheads who are
attacked the easiest.

I keep having memories of Dvixen being literally cornered in emails on a
conversational level because those people that were doing so decided that
since she was the most "aggressively vocal of the group", that she should be
the target. I've seen this many times over the last few years. Combine
that with her own natural emotional flare... and you'd have the recipe for
emotional disasters even.

I have seen Dvixen and Adam both take actions in other forums that I'm
fairly certain they'd rather not have had to do so. IRC in particular. But
any and all of those situations they were forced into by other individuals
because those individuals came into the community, didn't take the time to
listen for a bit and just start tearing at things.

Not always, but it has happened.

I've also been in IRC (continuing example) when individuals have come into
that forum and performed things that are just not "socially acceptable
behavior" in the average public location. If those actions had taken place
at a party I was attending for instance, I may have likely thrown the
person(s) out the door myself for their being a shit or worse. I have also
seen however admins in IRC take specific actions based upon nothing more
than the reason of "they were a twonk" and that seemed to be enough.

Guess what. That is still their right to do so. IRC has different degrees
of "netiquette" than ShadowRN or the Forums or Bulldrek. And if a person
comes into that community, and they don't take the time to figure out the
ropes/social mores' then they will suffer the retributions/retaliations of
that community.

I am not saying I agree with it or their actions. But I am saying that they
have the rights to those actions.

People become "leaders" of communities through a variety of means. They are
almost always in some manner "political" in their development. Some people
have naturally high charisma/public expression and convince, coerce,
contrive or simply take the command. Some people are voted into that
position by the current members of the community body. Other people are
assigned by the other "leaders" of the community in question.

The Online Communities that are Shadowrun based are NO different than any
other structures of social organization that already exist. The medium by
which their members interact may be different, but even that excuse is
vanishing with time.

What is sad is when people say "there needs to be a change", but the change
is almost always in some relation to "how it was in the past". Here's a
clue, if I had the "Cluebat" from work, I'd be bapping people quite hard all
over the place. We can't go back to the past. ShadowRN of today will
*NEVER* be like it was last year or three years ago or ten years ago. It is
far larger than it has ever been (a respectable 600+ members counting the
invis and digesters). It is made up of a wide variety of individuals...
obviously the most of whom have decided to simply join the list and "lurk"
(though I personally am unafraid of 1000 posts a day, there are others who
would be... and if the Lurkers all delurked.. it would cause an email
avalanche of nearly epic proportions).

I personally wish more "Lurkers" would come out of "lurk mode" on a
more
daily basis. I wish they would decide to become active members of the
community. Then maybe there would be even more people that I (or someone
else) could try and get involved and/or help them develop their own passion
for the game.

It is what we have in common,yes?

The Game.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)
THREEH.COM (www.threeh.com)
Message no. 2
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:02:13 -0500
Once upon a time, NeoJudas wrote;

>(though I personally am unafraid of 1000 posts a day, there are others who
>would be... and if the Lurkers all delurked.. it would cause an email
>avalanche of nearly epic proportions).

You know I got hit once by a bouncing spam that sent me around 1250
copies of itself. I really don't think you have any idea of what you are
asking for. The download time (and purge time of said messages) took
forever. Let me guess, you have one of those jobs where you can get paid
to sit around and read which is a very unrealistic expectation to hold
for other people.
In today's day and age we already have an information overload.
There is just too much information out there to digest. If we had that
many posts here I would find the list useless. Just sorting through the
subjects is time consuming and many useful posts would never be found as
they would be lost in the sea of posts.

-MC23, who has become more of a sleeper than a lurker on this list-

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 3
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 00:09:47 -0500
On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 05:03:06 -0500 "NeoJudas"
<neojudas@******************.com> writes:
> I have seen Dvixen and Adam both take actions in other forums that
> I'm
> fairly certain they'd rather not have had to do so. IRC in
> particular. But
> any and all of those situations they were forced into by other
> individuals
> because those individuals came into the community, didn't take the
> time to
> listen for a bit and just start tearing at things.
>

The thing is with the list and IRC (as I said elsewhere, I don't really
visit Dumpshock much anymore)...
it sometimes seems like they don't "enjoy" Shadowrun. They (the people
that run teh list, control the IRC channel through the Fastjack and run
the Dumpshock site) don't really seem to participate as much as coming in
on "meta" topics.
This is a generality of course, they have plenty of knowledge of SR, and
discuss it occasionally when a topic comes up, but usually in a manner
designed to end the conversation. They also placed themselves in a
position in charge. I appreciate the work put into the list, and the site
and such, and I thank them for it. But they don't seem to enjoy
Shadowrun...
(and, no, it's not because Wrestling comes up and I don't watch wrestling
:-)




> The Online Communities that are Shadowrun based are NO different
> than any
> other structures of social organization that already exist. The
> medium by
> which their members interact may be different, but even that excuse
> is
> vanishing with time.
>

But, the problem in my mind, is that the "clique" for want of a better
term (the old guard? is that better?) aren't down and dirty with the rest
of us. They're more the Q&A types (unless Tim Tams come up...)

it's getting late, and my head has hurt all day, so I'll send now before
I REALLY start rambling :-)


Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

________________________________________________________________
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Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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Message no. 4
From: Dvixen dvixen@****.com
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:19:45 -0800
> But, the problem in my mind, is that the "clique" for want of a better
> term (the old guard? is that better?) aren't down and dirty
> with the rest
> of us. They're more the Q&A types (unless Tim Tams come up...)

Tim Tams? :D
Message no. 5
From: Paul Collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:10:56 +1100
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dvixen" <dvixen@****.com>


> > But, the problem in my mind, is that the "clique" for want of a better
> > term (the old guard? is that better?) aren't down and dirty
> > with the rest
> > of us. They're more the Q&A types (unless Tim Tams come up...)
>
> Tim Tams? :D
>
Possibly one of the best biscuts invented. Chocolate, squished between
biscuts, smothered in chocolate. Even usable as a straw for coffee (So I'm
told, I don't drink the stuff myself) My wife says it's the ultimate
munchie food.

She also says that she'll send you some Dvixen, if you want.

Annachie
------------------------------------------------

-----Well, I use the word man in an as broad as possible sense because we
all know God made man in his own image. It would be a sad look out for
Christians around the globe if God looked anything like you, Baldrick.
-----Blackadder
Message no. 6
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:22:58 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Collins <paulcollins@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)



>> Tim Tams? :D
>>
>Possibly one of the best biscuts invented. Chocolate, squished between
>biscuts, smothered in chocolate. Even usable as a straw for coffee (So
I'm
>told, I don't drink the stuff myself) My wife says it's the ultimate
>munchie food.
>
>She also says that she'll send you some Dvixen, if you want.
>
>Annachie


Possibly? Is the surface of the sun possibly hot? Words can not convey the
taste, which is more than just chocolate. I'd love the recipe for making the
creamy chocolatey stuff in the middle, which is worth eating on it's own.
And if you don't drink coffee (and quite frankly sucking it through a Tim
Tam would change your mind on the subject) then any hot milky drink will do.
Forget vegemite, it seems every third foreign visitor raves about them, and
there is a Brit singer, whos name escapes me, who has them sent by the
boxload to England for her.
Dvixen, I say this in all sincerity, if you turn down this offer for
anything less than the possibility that you really pissed Annachie off at
some time and have reason to suspect broken glass hidden in the biscuits,
you are definitely mad.

Just in case: Biscuit=Cookie :)
Message no. 7
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:41:35 -0500
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:10:56 +1100 "Paul Collins"
<paulcollins@*******.com> writes:
> From: "Dvixen" <dvixen@****.com>
> > Tim Tams? :D
> >
> Possibly one of the best biscuts invented.
<snipping Evil Cookies>

Oh, she knows, she's just being E-Ville.
:-)


Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Message no. 8
From: Dvixen dvixen@****.com
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:30:35 -0800
> >> Tim Tams? :D

> >Possibly one of the best biscuts invented. Chocolate,
> squished between
> >biscuts, smothered in chocolate. Even usable as a straw for
> coffee (So
> I'm
> >told, I don't drink the stuff myself) My wife says it's the ultimate
> >munchie food.
> >
> >She also says that she'll send you some Dvixen, if you want.

(btw, that was me perking up at the mention of Tim Tams, shoulda been
more specific)

> Dvixen, I say this in all sincerity, if you turn down this offer for
> anything less than the possibility that you really pissed
> Annachie off at
> some time and have reason to suspect broken glass hidden in
> the biscuits,
> you are definitely mad.

Actually, at GenCon I had chance to have some, but has to turn it down.
:( I'm seriously allergic to coconut, and guess what was inside?

[obsr] How much does everyone think our current day fave munchies
(chocolates, chips, etc) have changed in 2061? How much nerps or soy is
in a Tim Tam, anyhows?
Message no. 9
From: Jeff Long jalong8@****.com
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 17:03:48 -0600
From: "Simon and Fiona" <sfuller@******.com.au>

> >> Tim Tams? :D
> >>
> >Possibly one of the best biscuts invented. <Snip>
>
> Possibly? Is the surface of the sun possibly hot? Words can not convey the
> taste, which is more than just chocolate. <Snip, snip>

They can't that good, can they? ;)

Jalong1
Message no. 10
From: Mark C Farrington alareth@*********.net
Subject: Online Communities (the Drawbacks)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:45:47 -0500
> How much nerps or soy is
> in a Tim Tam, anyhows?


Am I missing something? When did nerps become a dietary suppliment?

Alareth

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.