Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:31:14 GMT + 2:00
I my humblist apologies to those of you which had to read the
apparent reply messages from me. I only recieved the messages
recently (was on holiday). If any one is familiar with Pegasus Mail
please e-mail how to disable the reply, I canna find the option to
disable it.

Okay alls said and done. Here is a quicky rule that came up in a very
recent game, due to an extended debate with the major particpants it
was decided to throw it open to the floor and panel for comment.

Situation: Currently on our tails are 2 (minimum) werejaguars.
Through investigation we find that these creatures have an allergy to
<insert drum roll> oricalcum (sp?). After raiding an enchanters area
we ended with with about 2g of the stuff. As we had neither the time,
nor the equipment to smelt the stuff into a blade, we opted for the
next best thing we could think of

<Pause dialogue><Insert disclaimer> Please note: what follows is NOT
a prelude to the magic bullet debate but a question reguarding the
rules for modifing bullets
<Resume dialogue>

was to hollow out the tips of a couple bullets, smelt the oricalcum
down with some lead and insert the mixture into the bullets, hence
have a kind of hollow point bullet.

This is where the debate started. Does a) this modification effect
the accuracy of the bullet, b) effect the power c)actually worth the
effort and d) can the mage with an oricalcum allergy use magic
fingers and an enchanters kit to smelt the oricalcum down?
Additonally what skill is used to make the bullets.

After about an hour discussion (at 3 in the morning) we came up with
the following:
a) The accuracy of the bullet is not effected unless there is a
botched roll when making them
b) The power of the bullet is reduced by 2
c) In this case, YES, we barely survived the last encounter with them.
d) Unresolved: GM ruling NO as spell is an extention of the self
hence to uncomfortable to tamper with oricalcum.

The skill used is Weapon Build/Repair, base time=1 hr per bullet,
minimum equipment required is a penknife. Divide successes vs T#5
into time. Extra equipment allows reduction of T#.

Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 2
From: Jonathan Wright <jwrigh01@********.ca>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 15:13:14 -0400 (EDT)
On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Andre' Selmer wrote:

> Situation: Currently on our tails are 2 (minimum) werejaguars.
> Through investigation we find that these creatures have an allergy to
> <insert drum roll> oricalcum (sp?). After raiding an enchanters area
> we ended with with about 2g of the stuff. As we had neither the time,
> nor the equipment to smelt the stuff into a blade, we opted for the
> next best thing we could think of
> was to hollow out the tips of a couple bullets, smelt the oricalcum
> down with some lead and insert the mixture into the bullets, hence
> have a kind of hollow point bullet.
>
> This is where the debate started. Does a) this modification effect
> the accuracy of the bullet, b) effect the power c)actually worth the
> effort and d) can the mage with an oricalcum allergy use magic
> fingers and an enchanters kit to smelt the oricalcum down?
> Additonally what skill is used to make the bullets.


>
> After about an hour discussion (at 3 in the morning) we came up with
> the following:
> a) The accuracy of the bullet is not effected unless there is a
> botched roll when making them

Sounds good.

> b) The power of the bullet is reduced by 2

Sure, why not. Since the damage level is bumped up one level I remember
correctly this seems to maintain game balance.

> c) In this case, YES, we barely survived the last encounter with them.

Glad to hear it. :)

> d) Unresolved: GM ruling NO as spell is an extention of the self
> hence to uncomfortable to tamper with oricalcum.
>

Why not? In the Grimoire they mention using magic fingers to disarm
bombs (what could be more uncomfortable than a bomb that could blow any
minute?) It is a telekinetic effect, you pay the appropriate drain, etc.
you should get the full benefits of the spell!

> The skill used is Weapon Build/Repair, base time=1 hr per bullet,
> minimum equipment required is a penknife. Divide successes vs T#5
> into time. Extra equipment allows reduction of T#.

Minimum equipment is a pen knife? How did you smelt the ore mixture? Or
pour it into the hole you made?

Jon Wright
Message no. 3
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 09:01:20 GMT + 2:00
@ > The skill used is Weapon Build/Repair, base time=1 hr per bullet,
@ > minimum equipment required is a penknife. Divide successes vs T#5
@ > into time. Extra equipment allows reduction of T#.
@
@ Minimum equipment is a pen knife? How did you smelt the ore mixture? Or
@ pour it into the hole you made?

The minimum equipment required to chop the top, and hollow out
the bullet. Of course to smelt the ore mixture requirements are an
enchanters kit, one of those bullet making kits etc. That is really
dependent on what mixture you want to pour into the bullet tip.




Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 4
From: Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:23:23 -0700
Andre' Selmer wrote:
> Situation: Currently on our tails are 2 (minimum) werejaguars.
> Through investigation we find that these creatures have an allergy to
> <insert drum roll> oricalcum (sp?). After raiding an enchanters area
> we ended with with about 2g of the stuff. As we had neither the time,
> nor the equipment to smelt the stuff into a blade, we opted for the
> next best thing we could think of
>
> <Pause dialogue><Insert disclaimer> Please note: what follows is NOT
> a prelude to the magic bullet debate but a question reguarding the
> rules for modifing bullets
> <Resume dialogue>
>
> was to hollow out the tips of a couple bullets, smelt the oricalcum
> down with some lead and insert the mixture into the bullets, hence
> have a kind of hollow point bullet.
>
> This is where the debate started. Does a) this modification effect
> the accuracy of the bullet, b) effect the power c)actually worth the
> effort and d) can the mage with an oricalcum allergy use magic
> fingers and an enchanters kit to smelt the oricalcum down?
> Additonally what skill is used to make the bullets.
>
> After about an hour discussion (at 3 in the morning) we came up with
> the following:
> a) The accuracy of the bullet is not effected unless there is a
> botched roll when making them
> b) The power of the bullet is reduced by 2
> c) In this case, YES, we barely survived the last encounter with them.
> d) Unresolved: GM ruling NO as spell is an extention of the self
> hence to uncomfortable to tamper with oricalcum.
>
> The skill used is Weapon Build/Repair, base time=1 hr per bullet,
> minimum equipment required is a penknife. Divide successes vs T#5
> into time. Extra equipment allows reduction of T#.
>

Give me a couple of days and I'll have a page up for this little tid bit,
complete with digrams for some of the goodies involved. Bullet making is
very involved and is handled much to lightly in the rules at the moment.
It appears they have settled on only those munitions available from the
mass production houses of the megacorps and have ignored the neighborhood
gunsmith that most of us operating in the shade use.

Later.
Message no. 5
From: Larry <lomion@********.net>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:31:53 -0400
>This is where the debate started. Does a) this modification effect
>the accuracy of the bullet, b) effect the power c)actually worth the
>effort and d) can the mage with an oricalcum allergy use magic
>fingers and an enchanters kit to smelt the oricalcum down?
>Additonally what skill is used to make the bullets.
>
>After about an hour discussion (at 3 in the morning) we came up with
>the following:
>a) The accuracy of the bullet is not effected unless there is a
>botched roll when making them
I'd treat this like the silver bullet, contrary to the L0ne ranger thing I
belive that silver bullets are less accurate than standard (but I'm no
weaponsmith)



>b) The power of the bullet is reduced by 2
No problems here, though I'd question if the amount in the bullert is enough
to really affect them.
>c) In this case, YES, we barely survived the last encounter with them.
>d) Unresolved: GM ruling NO as spell is an extention of the self
>hence to uncomfortable to tamper with oricalcum.
The spell is magic, and since you can use magic to avoid an allergy for a
limited time (see Awakenings) I would allow the spell to be used. It's a
physical thing like an allergy to pollen or milk.


>The skill used is Weapon Build/Repair, base time=1 hr per bullet,
>minimum equipment required is a penknife. Divide successes vs T#5
>into time. Extra equipment allows reduction of T#.
Agree here, Firearm B/R though I'd make it a little tougher since your using
a magical substance. Also 1 question, don't you have to enchant the bullets
to make it work, and doesn't it say somewehere that enchanted weapons
(Weapon Foci) cannot be missile weapons or projectiles? that they have to
stay in contact with the user?

P.S. Why not just use mana barrier's or Astral static to screw with them?
If they're Dual nattured the Static should make their sense all screwed up,
better yet set up wards
to block them in an area and make your stand they'd have to attack the
wards to get at you, I'm assuming they're dual natured of course.
Larry Sica
lomion@**.cybernex.net
http://www2.cybernex.net/~lomion
-----------------------------------------------
"I see the eyes but not the tears
This is my affliction"
>From "Eyes that last I saw in tears", T.S. Eliot
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Valerie A Olson <volson@********.ca>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 18:34:44 -0400 (EDT)
On Wed, 10 Apr 1996, Russ Myrick wrote:

> Andre' Selmer wrote:
> >
> > was to hollow out the tips of a couple bullets, smelt the oricalcum
> > down with some lead and insert the mixture into the bullets, hence
> > have a kind of hollow point bullet.
> >
> > This is where the debate started. Does a) this modification effect
> > the accuracy of the bullet, b) effect the power c)actually worth the
> > effort and d) can the mage with an oricalcum allergy use magic
> > fingers and an enchanters kit to smelt the oricalcum down?
> > Additonally what skill is used to make the bullets.
> >
> > After about an hour discussion (at 3 in the morning) we came up with
> > the following:
> > a) The accuracy of the bullet is not effected unless there is a
> > botched roll when making them
> > b) The power of the bullet is reduced by 2
> > c) In this case, YES, we barely survived the last encounter with them.
> > d) Unresolved: GM ruling NO as spell is an extention of the self
> > hence to uncomfortable to tamper with oricalcum.
> >
> > The skill used is Weapon Build/Repair, base time=1 hr per bullet,
> > minimum equipment required is a penknife. Divide successes vs T#5
> > into time. Extra equipment allows reduction of T#.
> >
>
}}}Actually I've just gotta ask, why fiddle-fart around with the
hollowing out of bullets, when its soooooo easy to just re-fill a shotgun
cartridge? Wonderful things those shotguns,need to shoot something with
silver? Fill a few shotgun cartridges with silver earings. Need to use
that Oricalcum ofensively? Ditto with the sh/gun cartridge, Quick clean
and neat, eh?

The ROO-MAN.
Message no. 7
From: Paul@********.demon.co.uk (Paul Jonathan Adam)
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 00:14:38 GMT
Andre' Selmer wrote:
> Situation: Currently on our tails are 2 (minimum) werejaguars.
> Through investigation we find that these creatures have an allergy to
> <insert drum roll> oricalcum (sp?).

> <Pause dialogue><Insert disclaimer> Please note: what follows is NOT
> a prelude to the magic bullet debate but a question reguarding the
> rules for modifing bullets

> This is where the debate started. Does a) this modification effect
> the accuracy of the bullet, b) effect the power c)actually worth the
> effort and d) can the mage with an oricalcum allergy use magic
> fingers and an enchanters kit to smelt the oricalcum down?
> Additonally what skill is used to make the bullets.

> After about an hour discussion (at 3 in the morning) we came up with
> the following:
> a) The accuracy of the bullet is not effected unless there is a
> botched roll when making them

Not true. Even a scratch down the side of the bullet can noticeably affect
accuracy. Believe it or not, bullet quality is important. If you gouge out
a cavity by hand, you'll make the bullet eccentric about its axis of
rotation, it'll yaw in flight, and lose a lot of accuracy.

> b) The power of the bullet is reduced by 2

Might be increased. The original "Dum-Dum" bullet (developed at the Dum-Dum
Arsenal, India, in the late 1800s) was a normal .303 rifle bullet with the
gilding-metal jacket cut along its length on each quadrant. Compare how
effective hollowpoints are next to FMJ ammo.

> The skill used is Weapon Build/Repair, base time=1 hr per bullet,
> minimum equipment required is a penknife. Divide successes vs T#5
> into time. Extra equipment allows reduction of T#.

With a penknife, you're looking at some seriously knackered bullets :(
Cutting gilding-metal and lead isn't easy to do precisely, and precision
matters. Also, a messy bullet nose will quite likely cause your weapon
to misfeed - stoppages galore. Finally, some bullets have steel (or in
some cases tungsten) penetrators in the nose. Cutting those with a penknife
is a losing prospect. (NATO SS109 and US M855 5.56mm ball ammo, for example).

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 8
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:09:50 GMT + 2:00
@ }}}Actually I've just gotta ask, why fiddle-fart around with the
@ hollowing out of bullets, when its soooooo easy to just re-fill a shotgun
@ cartridge? Wonderful things those shotguns,need to shoot something with
@ silver? Fill a few shotgun cartridges with silver earings. Need to use
@ that Oricalcum ofensively? Ditto with the sh/gun cartridge, Quick clean
@ and neat, eh?

Um, good idea, two minor problems
1) Where is the nearest Shotgun dealer in the middle of the
Amazonian Rain Forest (ie we didn't bring one)
2) Would you prefer having about 10 shots with a heavy pistol
(remeber 2 were-jaguars) or a once off with a shotgun.



Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 9
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 17:58:25 +1030
>}}}Actually I've just gotta ask, why fiddle-fart around with the
>hollowing out of bullets, when its soooooo easy to just re-fill a shotgun
>cartridge? Wonderful things those shotguns,need to shoot something with
>silver? Fill a few shotgun cartridges with silver earings. Need to use
>that Oricalcum ofensively? Ditto with the sh/gun cartridge, Quick clean
>and neat, eh?

They had two grams of Orichalcum... they want to fill more than one
bullet.


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 10
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 11:45:09 GMT + 2:00
@ >The skill used is Weapon Build/Repair, base time=1 hr per bullet,
@ >minimum equipment required is a penknife. Divide successes vs T#5
@ >into time. Extra equipment allows reduction of T#.
@ Agree here, Firearm B/R though I'd make it a little tougher since your using
@ a magical substance.

After reading the comments by Paul I agree the numbers should be
more difficult but not for the reasons of magical nature of the
substance, I'll get the mage with the enchanting skill to melt the
substance down et al.

@ Also 1 question, don't you have to enchant the bullets
@ to make it work, and doesn't it say somewehere that enchanted weapons
@ (Weapon Foci) cannot be missile weapons or projectiles? that they have to
@ stay in contact with the user?

Okay, I mentioned that this was not the precursor to the magic
bullet debate, but I'll explian our reasons. Oricalcum by itself is a
material just plastic, metal, stone. It acts as a virgin talisma for
magic (I could be wrong, I a'int a mage). We don't care about its
magical properties, all we want are a couple of bullets that have a
small quantity of oricalcum in them so that the werejaguars cannot
regenerate the wounds that we inflict upon them, ie it gives us a
chance kill the critters before we run our of ammunition.


@ P.S. Why not just use mana barrier's or Astral static to screw with them?
@ If they're Dual nattured the Static should make their sense all screwed up,
@ better yet set up wards
@ to block them in an area and make your stand they'd have to attack the
@ wards to get at you, I'm assuming they're dual natured of course.

Even if they are dual natured, they still can rely on their
physical sences. In a jungle various odours such as gun oil, boot
polish, rubber, gun powder etc are slightly out of place and hence
are fairly easy to follow. Secondly, although we might be fairly
good, several town based characters trekking through the jungle leave
and awful amount of destruction behind them as chop their way through
(figuratively). The second problem is the I don't think that you can
set up a mobile ward (save prehaps in a van). Running through the
jungle with a half conscious mage, ain't worth the trouble of the
ward, and as for backing up and making a stand! Shudder! We don't
want to stand still, we have a very strict timetable to adhere to,
otherwise we miss out trip out of the Jungle. If we stand, it is
entirely probable that there were jaguars will wait untill more
reinforcments come.













Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 11
From: Valerie A Olson <volson@********.ca>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:32:22 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Andre' Selmer wrote:

> @ }}}Actually I've just gotta ask, why fiddle-fart around with the
> @ hollowing out of bullets, when its soooooo easy to just re-fill a shotgun
> @ cartridge? Wonderful things those shotguns,need to shoot something with
> @ silver? Fill a few shotgun cartridges with silver earings. Need to use
> @ that Oricalcum ofensively? Ditto with the sh/gun cartridge, Quick clean
> @ and neat, eh?
>
> Um, good idea, two minor problems
> 1) Where is the nearest Shotgun dealer in the middle of the
> Amazonian Rain Forest (ie we didn't bring one)
> 2) Would you prefer having about 10 shots with a heavy pistol
> (remeber 2 were-jaguars) or a once off with a shotgun.
>
>
>
}}}}}O.K. two good points, yup, can't argue with that, nope, nope, nope.
However! Assumeing that one did have a sh/gun (I don't leave home without
mine!) and that one was firing solids and not shot, wouldnt the solid
slug be easier to manipulate i.e. hollow out a bit and add the Oricalcum,
with out losing velocity or accuracy? I mean isn't a soli shotgun slug
still shaped like a cylinder,? with a flat top? Just asking.

The ROO-MAN.>
Message no. 12
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 09:52:24 -0500
> I mean isn't a soli shotgun slug
>still shaped like a cylinder,? with a flat top? Just asking.
>
> The ROO-MAN.>
I'm not an authority on guns, but, at a guess, I'd say no. It doesn't make
since to fire something with the aerodynamic qualitys of a brick.

Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"You only need two things in this world. WD40 to make things go, and duct
tape to make them stop."
Message no. 13
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 09:01:45 -0600 (MDT)
Mike Broadwater wrote:
|
|> I mean isn't a soli shotgun slug
|>still shaped like a cylinder,? with a flat top? Just asking.
|>
|> The ROO-MAN.>
|I'm not an authority on guns, but, at a guess, I'd say no. It doesn't make
|since to fire something with the aerodynamic qualitys of a brick.

I'm no authority either but I do know that shotguns can fire slugs, balls
and shot (which can be made out of just about anything, including rubber).

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 14
From: Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:15:23 -0700
Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:

> Not true. Even a scratch down the side of the bullet can noticeably
> affect accuracy. Believe it or not, bullet quality is important. If you
> gouge out a cavity by hand, you'll make the bullet eccentric about its
> axis of rotation, it'll yaw in flight, and lose a lot of accuracy.
>
> Might be increased. The original "Dum-Dum" bullet (developed at the
> Dum-Dum Arsenal, India, in the late 1800s) was a normal .303 rifle
> bullet with the gilding-metal jacket cut along its length on each
> quadrant. Compare how effective hollowpoints are next to FMJ ammo.
>
> With a penknife, you're looking at some seriously knackered bullets :(
> Cutting gilding-metal and lead isn't easy to do precisely, and
> precision matters. Also, a messy bullet nose will quite likely cause
> your weapon to misfeed - stoppages galore. Finally, some bullets have
> steel (or in some cases tungsten) penetrators in the nose. Cutting
> those with a penknife is a losing prospect. (NATO SS109 and US M855
> 5.56mm ball ammo, for example).
> Good points. Any good runner is not going to use ball or FMJ ammo. Their
wide spread use is only a result of the Geneva Conventions and not
because of their effectiveness -- JHP & ESBT all the way!
Message no. 15
From: Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 06:37:11 -0700
Valerie A Olson wrote:
> }}}Actually I've just gotta ask, why fiddle-fart around with the
> hollowing out of bullets, when its soooooo easy to just re-fill a shotgun
> cartridge? Wonderful things those shotguns,need to shoot something with
> silver? Fill a few shotgun cartridges with silver earings. Need to use
> that Oricalcum ofensively? Ditto with the sh/gun cartridge, Quick clean
> and neat, eh?
>

It's fine in theory. Reality is you rip out the inside of the barrel in
just 4 or 5 shots filled with dimes, silver earings, etc. Jewelry has a
high nickel content these days.

The last time I talked to my jeweler about silver wire for some fetishes,
he informed me the best on the wholesale market with out custom smelting
(expensive) is 14% Silver, 27% Nickel, 59% base metals (aluminum, lead,
etc., Not real good for lycanthrop nixing and very hard on shotgun
barrels.

Also Shotguns have terrible penetration over 5m. A half way decent flak
vest from the 60's will stop 12ga 3in. magnums, loaded with 00 buck shot,
at 4m.
Message no. 16
From: Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 11:07:43 -0700
Valerie A Olson wrote:
> }}}}}O.K. two good points, yup, can't argue with that, nope, nope,
> nope.
> However! Assumeing that one did have a sh/gun (I don't leave home
> without mine!) and that one was firing solids and not shot, wouldnt the
> solid slug be easier to manipulate i.e. hollow out a bit and add the
> Oricalcum, with out losing velocity or accuracy? I mean isn't a soli
> shotgun slug still shaped like a cylinder,? with a flat top? Just
> asking.

No, the center of gravity has changed, therefore the flight
characteristics have changed; and unless the lead around the oric. core
is swedged to the core, it will be loose -- resulting in a wobbly flight.
Message no. 17
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 16:41:17 GMT
> > I mean isn't a soli shotgun slug
> >still shaped like a cylinder,? with a flat top? Just asking.
> > The ROO-MAN.>

> I'm not an authority on guns, but, at a guess, I'd say no. It doesn't make
> since to fire something with the aerodynamic qualitys of a brick.
> Mike Broadwater

If your effective range is only about 70-100 yards, it's no problem at
all. For the lowish velocity of shotgun slug, the flat nose doesn't
make much of a difference at the ranges where you could actually hit
something...

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 18
From: Valerie A Olson <volson@********.ca>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:40:48 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Russ Myrick wrote:

> Valerie A Olson wrote:
> > }}}Actually I've just gotta ask, why fiddle-fart around with the
> > hollowing out of bullets, when its soooooo easy to just re-fill a shotgun
> > cartridge? Wonderful things those shotguns,need to shoot something with
> > silver? Fill a few shotgun cartridges with silver earings. Need to use
> > that Oricalcum ofensively? Ditto with the sh/gun cartridge, Quick clean
> > and neat, eh?
> >
>
> It's fine in theory. Reality is you rip out the inside of the barrel in
> just 4 or 5 shots filled with dimes, silver earings, etc. Jewelry has a
> high nickel content these days.
>
> The last time I talked to my jeweler about silver wire for some fetishes,
> he informed me the best on the wholesale market with out custom smelting
> (expensive) is 14% Silver, 27% Nickel, 59% base metals (aluminum, lead,
> etc., Not real good for lycanthrop nixing and very hard on shotgun
> barrels.
>
> Also Shotguns have terrible penetration over 5m. A half way decent flak
> vest from the 60's will stop 12ga 3in. magnums, loaded with 00 buck shot,
> at 4m.
>
>
}}Granted,firing shot, is next to useless against any type of
armour,solid slugs rip! Imean a Mossberg CMDT on burst will do like 13D.
The ROO-MAN.>
Message no. 19
From: Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
Subject: Re: Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:34:31 -0700
Valerie A Olson wrote:
> }}Granted,firing shot, is next to useless against any type of
> armour,solid slugs rip! Imean a Mossberg CMDT on burst will do like
> 13D.

Penetration against kevlar is even worse, but the blunt trauma is WHOOSH
much greater.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Oops! Sorry 'bout reply messages but onto SR, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!