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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:45:36 +0100
Mike Elkins said on 9:54/28 Jul 97...

> Yes, thats in the rules. However, having glass be opaque in the astral
> makes things so much more consistent that I use it as a house rule.

How does it make things more consistent? In one way, sure -- you can
say "all material objects are opaque in astral space," that's consistent.
Still, "materials that are transparent on the physical plane are also
transparent on the astral plane" is also consistent.

> I suggest (without much hope) that Steve considers it for SR3 as well.
> After all, what wavelength of light does astral space use to determine
> if something is transparent? Do you allow astral microscopes? Things
> just get silly.

Not really, IMHO. Astral space doesn't use light, so there's no trouble
with wavelengths etc. It appears to me that astral space, like totems, is
to some degree formed by peoples' ideas about it, but at the same time
it also forms those ideas. Since "everyone knows" glass is transparent
(because it is to the wavelengths of the light humans use to see), that's
what it is in astral space.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 2
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:34:04 -0500
-Reply

I wrote:
> Yes, thats in the rules. However, having glass
be opaque in the astral
> makes things so much more consistent that I
use it as a house rule.
Gurth Replied:
>How does it make things more consistent?
<snip>
>IMHO. Astral space doesn't use light,
>so there's no trouble with wavelengths etc.

But transparency is COMPLETELY a function of
the energy states of the molecules and the
frequency of the photons. Astral space doesn't
use light, it follows completely different rules.
For astral beings such as spirits, or spells to
have a limitation based on the peculularities of
human perception seems inconsistent to me.

>It appears to me that astral space, like totems,
>is to some degree formed by peoples' ideas
>about it, but at the same time it also forms
>those ideas.

In my interpretation, astral space is the place
where consciousness, thoughts, concepts,
dreams, magic and essence come from. Our
perceptions of it may be colored by our ideas,
and our ideas are its inhabitants, but its rules are
its own. If a thousand people start believing Elvis
lives in the astral, he will show up there
eventually. But there is a big difference between
discovering new pieces of astral space, adding
inhabitants etc. and imposing universal
limitations. Why should an ancient free spirit
care whether mankind can see through glass or
not?

So here is my simple, universal rule: solids are
opaque, gases are transparent, liquids are
somewhere inbetween. It's due to the
cohesiveness of their auras :)

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 3
From: Chuck Stevens <harmonix@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:27:09 -0700
----------
> From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 1997 6:34 AM
>

[SNIP]

>
> So here is my simple, universal rule: solids are
> opaque, gases are transparent, liquids are
> somewhere inbetween. It's due to the
> cohesiveness of their auras :)
>
> Double-Domed Mike

Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous liquid, rather
than a solid.

------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Stevens
harmonix@**.net

"If your god is so omnipotent,
why does he need my money?"
- Salmoneus
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:56:58 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-29 18:52:56 EDT, you write:

> > So here is my simple, universal rule: solids are
> > opaque, gases are transparent, liquids are
> > somewhere inbetween. It's due to the
> > cohesiveness of their auras :)
> >
> > Double-Domed Mike
>
> Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous liquid,

> rather
> than a solid.

<sigh...> Okay, as far as I'm concerned, if it don't make a splash when I put
my hand through it, it isn't liquid. Besides, in 1997 the majority of windows
are made of something other than pure glass. In Shadowrun I'd imagine windows
would be made of Lexan or something. At least high quality plexiglass.

Wolfstar
Message no. 5
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:40:04 +0100
|> So here is my simple, universal rule: solids are
|> opaque, gases are transparent, liquids are
|> somewhere inbetween. It's due to the
|> cohesiveness of their auras :)
|>
|> Double-Domed Mike
|
| Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous liquid,
| rather than a solid.

So THAT'S why glass is transparent.....

:)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 06:53:36 -0400
> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 6:40 AM

> | Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous
liquid,
> | rather than a solid.

> So THAT'S why glass is transparent.....

Die!

> :)

:)

> Andrew Halliwell

Justin :)
Message no. 7
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117" <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 18:11:11 -0500
You wrote:
> <sigh...> Okay, as far as I'm concerned, if it don't make a splash when I put
> my hand through it, it isn't liquid. Besides, in 1997 the majority of windows
> are made of something other than pure glass. In Shadowrun I'd imagine windows
> would be made of Lexan or something. At least high quality plexiglass.

All depends, since by 2050 the ingredients for plastics may be getting scarce
enough to make those expensive, whereas the ingredients for glass shouldn't
rise too much in price by then.

losthalo, worked in a factory that finished glass :)
Message no. 8
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:58:35 -0400
In a message dated 7/31/97 1:02:17 AM, you wrote:

>|> So here is my simple, universal rule: solids are
>|> opaque, gases are transparent, liquids are
>|> somewhere inbetween. It's due to the
>|> cohesiveness of their auras :)
>|>
>|> Double-Domed Mike
>|
>| Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous liquid,
>| rather than a solid.
>
>So THAT'S why glass is transparent.....
>
>:)

So what about tinted glass? (hehe- can't see the target sitting in the limo?
just switch to astral and draw a bead. +2 is better than blind fire <evil
grin

- Gabriel, The Angel of Death
"When in danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout"- Robert Heinlien
Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:26:04 +0100
|>So THAT'S why glass is transparent.....
|>
|>:)
|
|So what about tinted glass? (hehe- can't see the target sitting in the limo?
|just switch to astral and draw a bead. +2 is better than blind fire <evil
|grin

Simple. Impurities reduce visibility, and the tint IS an impurity, or even a
plasic coating on the glass....

Either way.... You can't see through it...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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