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From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Open-ended Tests
Date:	Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:32:18 -0700

Message no. 1 Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 9:12/30 Oct 97...
|
| > Wouldn't it be easier to have both sides roll vs a base TN of 4? The
| > sneaker roles his stealth vs a 4. The perciever rolls his
| > intelligence vs a 4 modified by vision, the sneaker's movement
| > (reverse the walking/running modifiers) and concealment modifiers.
| > Whoever gets the most successes "wins".
|
| That's more or less the standard SR rule, and I don't think either is
| easier than the other.

The standard SR rule is that the sneaker's base TN is the perceiver's
intelligence and the perceiver's base TN is the sneaker's stealth.

[snip: misinterpretation]

| What I use as a house rule is to roll the STealth dice
| utnil there are no more sixes, and note the highest roll. Then that's the
| base TN for the Perception test. I'm not great at statistics so I don't
| know how the relation between number of Stealth dice and number of
| Perception dice affects the probabilities here, but it seems well
| enough balanced to me.

It would seem that luck would play a much greater role with this.
For example Sam (who's sneaking up on Fred) rolls his stealth, which
is one die, and ends up with a 15 (6+6+3). Fred has an intelligence
of 6, but he odds of him spotting Sam are practically nill (about
5%). That's not right, IMO.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Open-ended Tests
Date:	Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:17:42 +0100

Message no. 2 David Buehrer said on 7:32/31 Oct 97...

> | That's more or less the standard SR rule, and I don't think either is
> | easier than the other.
>
> The standard SR rule is that the sneaker's base TN is the perceiver's
> intelligence and the perceiver's base TN is the sneaker's stealth.

Notice I said "more or less". Since SRII doesn't address the use of
Stealth skill (although it's logical to make it an opposed test with
Perception, as most people do), the Companion has rules that do exactly
what you said: base TN 4, and Stealth successes add to the TN for the
Perception test.

> | What I use as a house rule is to roll the STealth dice
> | utnil there are no more sixes, and note the highest roll. Then that's the
> | base TN for the Perception test. I'm not great at statistics so I don't
> | know how the relation between number of Stealth dice and number of
> | Perception dice affects the probabilities here, but it seems well
> | enough balanced to me.
>
> It would seem that luck would play a much greater role with this.
> For example Sam (who's sneaking up on Fred) rolls his stealth, which
> is one die, and ends up with a 15 (6+6+3). Fred has an intelligence
> of 6, but he odds of him spotting Sam are practically nill (about
> 5%). That's not right, IMO.

No, but the chance that Sam rolls a 15 isn't high either. Under normal
circumstances (i.e. with average rolls on both sides), Fred will spot Sam,
which is also what happens using the rules from the Companion. However,
like you said my house rule figures in luck as well as skill; now you
should trust in luck alone, but it can always come in handy. Whereas using
the BTB rule, Sam theoretically has a chance of sneaking up on Fred, but
it is very slim indeed -- since Fred's TN will never be above 5.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
'K moest kloppen want de bel doet het niet.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Open-ended Tests
Date:	Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:03:18 -0700

Message no. 3 Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 7:32/31 Oct 97...
|
| > | What I use as a house rule is to roll the STealth dice
| > | utnil there are no more sixes, and note the highest roll. Then that's the
| > | base TN for the Perception test. I'm not great at statistics so I don't
| > | know how the relation between number of Stealth dice and number of
| > | Perception dice affects the probabilities here, but it seems well
| > | enough balanced to me.
| >
| > It would seem that luck would play a much greater role with this.
| > For example Sam (who's sneaking up on Fred) rolls his stealth, which
| > is one die, and ends up with a 15 (6+6+3). Fred has an intelligence
| > of 6, but he odds of him spotting Sam are practically nill (about
| > 5%). That's not right, IMO.
|
| No, but the chance that Sam rolls a 15 isn't high either. Under normal
| circumstances (i.e. with average rolls on both sides), Fred will spot Sam,
| which is also what happens using the rules from the Companion. However,
| like you said my house rule figures in luck as well as skill; now you
| should trust in luck alone, but it can always come in handy. Whereas using
| the BTB rule, Sam theoretically has a chance of sneaking up on Fred, but
| it is very slim indeed -- since Fred's TN will never be above 5.

I guess it comes down to a matter of taste then :)

Live long and Shadowrun often,
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."

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