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Message no. 1
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Optional character generation systems
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:52:40 GMT
On Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:09:35 -0700, David Buehrer wrote:

> Mon goose wrote:
>
> / On a different note, I'm very suprised that FASA has never put a
> / increasing cost on higher stts, etc at character creation, IE a 6
> / costing more than twice what a 3 does. This was very well done in
> / "Earthdawns" character Gen system. Something like using the 100 point
> / build system (probably with more points), but with things like
> / attributes, skills, and spells costing thier SQUARE of thier rating, or
> / some other progressive amount.
>
> That would be most excellent. Any chance you've figured out how to
> do it? :)

CORPS handles this rather well, using-- as you say-- the square of the stat
level you are trying to obtain (or the difference between it and the one
previous, for purposes of increasing stats during gameplay-- skills, magic,
and tech would follow a similar route).

Level Cost to Cost to
Buy Raise by 1
(L) (L^2) (Lx2)+1
===========================
1 1 3
2 4 5
3 9 7
4 16 9
5 25 11
6 36 13
7 49 15
8 64 17
9 81 19
10 100 21
11 etc. etc.

eg: To raise a stat or skill from 4 to 5 during gameplay would cost the
equivalent of 9 points (just slightly more that the cost to raise
skills/stats using the current SR rules).

Players would then start with approximately 250 points to spend (spending
no more than 150 on either skills, stats, magic, etc). A revised tech
chart would need to be created. As an option, magic spells could be
"improved" just like skills, instead of being "re-learned" at a higher
level. Of course, all this only makes sense to you if you are familiar
with the SR Companion rules for character generation.

Another nice character development system-- although it has it's share of
"nay-sayers"-- is the one used in Traveller. In it, characters begin at a
certain age and improve their pregame stats and skills in 4 year chunks
(Traveller uses a random method but nothing would stop you from picking the
improvements yourself). Along the way would be random events that could
possibly change your character's destiny during the generation process,
prior to actually starting gameplay. This type of system works well to
mimic natural improvement over the course of a character's natural lifetime
(up to the point of being introduced into the campaign), rather than the
*sudden* manifestation of a 36 year-old Merc with nothing but combat
skills.

Such a system for Shadowrun might even begin with characters generating
base stats at age 15, along with certain default skills (languages,
hobbies, education, maybe a bit of athletics/climbing, etc.). The
characters would then receive 25 points per year of pregame time, up to age
25. After that, points would be given out at a rate of only 10 per year
(to represent the increasing difficulty of improving one's self when you
get older). To prevent munchkins from developing super-powerful 80
year-old combat monsters, characters would begin to make random checks for
stat or skill degradation (eg: Wayne Gretzky isn't as fast or agile as he
used to be). As an alternative, being "Young" could constitute a very
expensive Flaw, while characters over the age of 25 would have to spend a
lot of their points on an "Old & Wise" Edge.

I just whipped this up in the last ten minutes so please excuse any glaring
errors. If anyone wants to run with this idea, please keep me informed :)



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";
ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

Mano au mano, the "Professor"
would kick MacGyver's ass.
Message no. 2
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional character generation systems
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 06:27:52 -0800
James Lindsay wrote:

> Another nice character development system-- although it has it's share of
> "nay-sayers"-- is the one used in Traveller. In it, characters begin at a
> certain age and improve their pregame stats and skills in 4 year chunks

Just for the sake of completeness - and I'm sure everyone already knows
this -
Cyberpunk 2020 offers a "Lifepath" with various incidents, good and bad,
that
a character might have encoutnered during his or her early years. Most
tend to
be role-playing devices (eg, the character lost a girlfriend, or made
friends
with a datajock) although a few are striaght up rewards (+$500).

Rolemaster (the new edition) also offers character and vocational
packages, which
are almost entirely skill-oriented (occasionally they result in a piece
of equipment).
I think RM designed them more in mind of quick-stepping a character
through several
levels, since RM tends to be lethal at lower levels.

A lot of GMs (in all games) offer bonus points for good character
backgrounds. I
suppose it's always a case of what you consider good, as I've seen some
pretty
hammy-yet-thoroughly-described backgrounds....


-Matt

-----------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl
Message no. 3
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Optional character generation systems
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:05:09 GMT
On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 06:27:52 -0800, Matb wrote:

> James Lindsay wrote:
>
> > Another nice character development system-- although it has it's share of
> > "nay-sayers"-- is the one used in Traveller. In it, characters begin
at a
> > certain age and improve their pregame stats and skills in 4 year chunks
>
> Just for the sake of completeness - and I'm sure everyone already knows
> this - Cyberpunk 2020 offers a "Lifepath" with various incidents, good and
> bad, that a character might have encoutnered during his or her early years.
> Most tend to be role-playing devices (eg, the character lost a girlfriend,
> or made friends with a datajock) although a few are striaght up rewards
> (+$500).

One of the *best* features of CP2020. Instead of asking Shadowrun's
"Twenty Questions", it spreads this info out over the character generation
process (just like in real life).

> A lot of GMs (in all games) offer bonus points for good character
> backgrounds. I suppose it's always a case of what you consider good, as I've
> seen some pretty hammy-yet-thoroughly-described backgrounds....

Strange that you mention that, since CORPS gives you character actual build
points based on how thorough your background is (1 point per 100 words, up
to 5 points max-- +/- a few points depending on the quality of the actual
"content").



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";
ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

Mano au mano, the "Professor"
would kick MacGyver's ass.
Message no. 4
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional character generation systems
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:36:34 -0800
At 5:05 PM +0000 2/23/98, James Lindsay wrote:

>> > Another nice character development system-- although it has it's share of
>> > "nay-sayers"-- is the one used in Traveller. In it, characters
begin at a
>> > certain age and improve their pregame stats and skills in 4 year chunks

Yeah, and the best part of Traveller is that you could die during character
generation. That always cracked me up to no end. Realistic, yes, fun to
have a few characters die before you actually got to play the game, um, no.

As far as the CP2020 lifepath rules go (a great tool for new players or
players with writer's block) you can find updated ones in RTal's Champions:
New Millennim game. I'd recommend a copy for every gaming group. The're
great for adding quick color to NPC's, too.

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@*********.com)
Photography/Design
Oakland, California
http://www.lowephoto.com.

"The logic of worldly sucess rests on a fallacy: the strange error that our
perfection depends upon the thought and opinions and applause of other men."

-Thomas Merton
Message no. 5
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Optional character generation systems
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:46:13 GMT
On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:36:34 -0800, David R. Lowe wrote:

> At 5:05 PM +0000 2/23/98, James Lindsay wrote:
>
> >> > Another nice character development system-- although it has it's share
of
> >> > "nay-sayers"-- is the one used in Traveller. In it,
characters begin at a
> >> > certain age and improve their pregame stats and skills in 4 year chunks
>
> Yeah, and the best part of Traveller is that you could die during character
> generation. That always cracked me up to no end. Realistic, yes, fun to
> have a few characters die before you actually got to play the game, um, no.

That "rule" quickly got surpassed by the premature "mustering out"
rule
instead. So, no, you no longer die during character generation in
Traveller :)





James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";
ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

Mano au mano, the "Professor"
would kick MacGyver's ass.
Message no. 6
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional character generation systems
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:26:37 -0800
At 2:46 AM +0000 2/24/98, James Lindsay wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:36:34 -0800, David R. Lowe wrote:
>
>> At 5:05 PM +0000 2/23/98, James Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> >> > Another nice character development system-- although it has it's
>>share of
>> >> > "nay-sayers"-- is the one used in Traveller. In it,
characters
>>begin at a
>> >> > certain age and improve their pregame stats and skills in 4 year
chu=
nks
>>
>> Yeah, and the best part of Traveller is that you could die during charact=
er
>> generation. That always cracked me up to no end. Realistic, yes, fun to
>> have a few characters die before you actually got to play the game, um, n=
o.
>
>That "rule" quickly got surpassed by the premature "mustering out"
rule
>instead. So, no, you no longer die during character generation in
>Traveller :)

Just to show you my "gaming age", after I posted that, I pulled out the
little black Traveller box with the little black books just to refresh my
memory. Sigh, I feel old. I've got the first ed. Champions around here
somewhereŠ

D.



David R. Lowe (dlowe@*********.com)
Photography/Design
Oakland, California
http://www.lowephoto.com.

"The logic of worldly sucess rests on a fallacy: the strange error that our
perfection depends upon the thought and opinions and applause of other men."

-Thomas Merton
Message no. 7
From: Kristling Ravenwing <kristling@*******.CROSSWINDS.NET>
Subject: Re: Optional character generation systems
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:32:09 -0500
----------
> From: David R. Lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
> At 2:46 AM +0000 2/24/98, James Lindsay wrote:
> >On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:36:34 -0800, David R. Lowe wrote:
> >
> >> At 5:05 PM +0000 2/23/98, James Lindsay wrote:
> >>
> >> >> > Another nice character development system-- although it has
it's
> >>share of
> >> >> > "nay-sayers"-- is the one used in Traveller. In it,
characters
> >>begin at a
> >> >> > certain age and improve their pregame stats and skills in 4
year
chunks
> >>
> >> Yeah, and the best part of Traveller is that you could die during
character
> >> generation. That always cracked me up to no end. Realistic, yes, fun to
> >> have a few characters die before you actually got to play the game, um,
no.
> >
> >That "rule" quickly got surpassed by the premature "mustering
out" rule
> >instead. So, no, you no longer die during character generation in
> >Traveller :)
>
> Just to show you my "gaming age", after I posted that, I pulled out the
> little black Traveller box with the little black books just to refresh my
> memory. Sigh, I feel old. I've got the first ed. Champions around here
> somewhere
Gee, can you tell me how it was back when there were aliments, unca' David?
Huh, huh?!
<hurries into his carp- proof cave, puts up the "open" sign>
Message no. 8
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Optional character generation systems
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:41:18 GMT
On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:26:37 -0800, David R. Lowe wrote:

> At 2:46 AM +0000 2/24/98, James Lindsay wrote:
>
> >That "rule" quickly got surpassed by the premature "mustering
out" rule
> >instead. So, no, you no longer die during character generation in
> >Traveller :)
>
> Just to show you my "gaming age", after I posted that, I pulled out the
> little black Traveller box with the little black books just to refresh my
> memory. Sigh, I feel old. I've got the first ed. Champions around here
> somewhere

Got an untarnished copy of the original Star Fleet Battles boxed set in my
bookcase myself :)



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";
ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

Mano au mano, the "Professor"
would kick MacGyver's ass.
Message no. 9
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional character generation systems
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:59:51 -0500
>> Sigh, I feel old. I've got the first ed. Champions around here
>> somewhere
>
>Got an untarnished copy of the original Star Fleet Battles boxed set in
>my bookcase myself :)

I gave away my copy of "Chainmail" a number of years ago. Never
actually played it... (this was TSR's first product, for those of you who
don't know RPG pre-history)

Double-Domed Mike

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