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Message no. 1
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:58:54 -0500
One of Dunkie's bequests was to an ork by the name of Robert Page. He
left him an ancient text that proved elves were not the only race to have
a unique language. Supposedly, this would have been a "Rosetta Stone" of
sorts for at least the orkish language, as well as those of dwarves,
trolls, windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen. Would this language have been
brought to light yet, 3 years later? I would assume that it would require
a fluent speaker of elven to translate (unless Dunky added something in a
more modern language). Any thoughts?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yeilding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend.
If you pardon, we will mend.
-
So good night unto you all.
Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.
-Puck "A Midsummer Night's Dream"
Message no. 2
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:13:33 +0000
> One of Dunkie's bequests was to an ork by the name of Robert Page. He
> left him an ancient text that proved elves were not the only race to have
> a unique language. Supposedly, this would have been a "Rosetta Stone" of
> sorts for at least the orkish language, as well as those of dwarves,
> trolls, windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen. Would this language have been
> brought to light yet, 3 years later? I would assume that it would require
> a fluent speaker of elven to translate (unless Dunky added something in a
> more modern language). Any thoughts?

In three years they should have been able to interpret the stone and
started to learn it unless the elfs have a different idea about and
wanna steal it :)

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 3
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:20:38 -0500
On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:58:54 -0500 Nexx <nexx@********.NET> writes:
>One of Dunkie's bequests was to an ork by the name of Robert Page. He
>left him an ancient text that proved elves were not the only race to
have
>a unique language. Supposedly, this would have been a "Rosetta Stone"
of
>sorts for at least the orkish language, as well as those of dwarves,
>trolls, windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen. Would this language have
been
>brought to light yet, 3 years later? I would assume that it would
require
>a fluent speaker of elven to translate (unless Dunky added something in
a
>more modern language). Any thoughts?
>
>***************
>Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
> aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
<SNIP Sig>

Actually, I think it'd be more interesting to have the work be in the
progress of being translated. (If someone fluent in Sperethiel was
helping, it would only matter if the text was duplicated in Sperethiel.)
You could have Robert Page's progress reported every once in a while on
the news. It would probably be particularly interesting for Ork PCs ...
For a good deal of time, Orkish may be primarily an academic language!
Now, compare that to just plopping down the language in 2060 and saying
it's a common language and anyone can learn it ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:14:26 EDT
In a message dated 8/29/98 7:01:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
nexx@********.NET writes:

> One of Dunkie's bequests was to an ork by the name of Robert Page. He
> left him an ancient text that proved elves were not the only race to have
> a unique language. Supposedly, this would have been a "Rosetta Stone" of
> sorts for at least the orkish language, as well as those of dwarves,
> trolls, windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen. Would this language have been
> brought to light yet, 3 years later? I would assume that it would require
> a fluent speaker of elven to translate (unless Dunky added something in a
> more modern language). Any thoughts?
>

Something we did here in the home games was this. Mr. Page, we made one of
the elders in control of the Ork Underground, studied the text for roughly 6
months or so, getting himself a pretty high up with skill in it (let's say a
6). He then turns around and makes a skillsoft out of it. Instead of selling
it, he made a total of 10 master copies of the same chip. These 10 he gave to
10 different people at the same time. He had a request of them however, they
needed to make two additional copies of this chip, and give them to two other
people. Those two people in return had to do the same thing also, and so on,
and so on.

Given that, the Ork language has begun to spread rather rapidly in Seattle and
amongst Orks and Trolls around the world.

You can even purchase should you choose to do so, but if you are an Ork or
Troll, as long as you accept the above request, you can get it for free.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 5
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:18:36 -0500
----------
> From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
> Something we did here in the home games was this. Mr. Page, we made one
of
> the elders in control of the Ork Underground, studied the text for
roughly 6
> months or so, getting himself a pretty high up with skill in it (let's
say a
> 6). He then turns around and makes a skillsoft out of it. Instead of
selling
> it, he made a total of 10 master copies of the same chip. These 10 he
gave to
> 10 different people at the same time. He had a request of them however,
they
> needed to make two additional copies of this chip, and give them to two
other
> people. Those two people in return had to do the same thing also, and
so on,
> and so on.

Unfortunately, a skillsoft is of about zero help to those of us who like
our essence the way it is, probably leaving many ork and troll magic users
to say something like "Speratemel rel timaan perest? Hellon Sperethiel,"
though perhaps not in those precise words.

Besides, why would trolls want to learn ork?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yeilding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend.
If you pardon, we will mend.
-
So good night unto you all.
Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.
-Puck "A Midsummer Night's Dream"
Message no. 6
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:30:23 EDT
In a message dated 8/29/98 9:21:14 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
nexx@********.NET writes:

> Unfortunately, a skillsoft is of about zero help to those of us who like
> our essence the way it is, probably leaving many ork and troll magic users
> to say something like "Speratemel rel timaan perest? Hellon Sperethiel,"
> though perhaps not in those precise words.

Umm, you can use a skillsoft to learn a skill though. And you can put it into
something to act as a translator.

> Besides, why would trolls want to learn ork?

Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a troll).

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 7
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:37:03 +0000
> > Besides, why would trolls want to learn ork?
>
> Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
> Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a troll).

So what is orc like anyway ? a bunch of weird grunts and moans sort
of like caveman speak or what ?

/Stefan


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:55:49 EDT
In a message dated 8/29/98 5:01:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nexx@********.NET
writes:

> One of Dunkie's bequests was to an ork by the name of Robert Page. He
> left him an ancient text that proved elves were not the only race to have
> a unique language. Supposedly, this would have been a "Rosetta Stone" of
> sorts for at least the orkish language, as well as those of dwarves,
> trolls, windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen. Would this language have been
> brought to light yet, 3 years later? I would assume that it would require
> a fluent speaker of elven to translate (unless Dunky added something in a
> more modern language). Any thoughts?

Even though it makes no mention of another language among the text, I would
assume the computers of 2060 could decode it quickly enough. Given that, it
would be pretty quickly disemmenated throughout Orc places. (Though probably
more through word of mouth than tech-reasons, the orc underground would not be
the most technological place IMO)
With the short lifespan/ high birth rate among Orcs, the orcish language may
actually become common soon enough (1 or 2 generations) maybe even replacing
City-speak. (anyone dealing with orcs would also learn it to try to impress
their "new friends", leading to lingua-softs and such)
Dunk of course could have taught such languages himself throughout the
years, as any of the Immortals could have (even the IBBC-immortal blackberry
cats) And why not try to help other races too? (The Trolls system of honor or
even bringing to light the Dwarves Book of Tommorow) Sure the others might
have been mad, but he could have leaked it through another (blame it on
Alamais, he has that thing with elves :-)
Message no. 9
From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:18:54 EDT
<<Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a troll).>>

How do you mean? I thought any race was able to learn Sperethiel.


Steel Katana
Message no. 10
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:34:02 -0500
----------
> From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>

> <<Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
> Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a
troll).>>
>
> How do you mean? I thought any race was able to learn Sperethiel.

It has to do with the shape of a troll's mouth and teeth. Their speech is
often fairly inflectionless to the human ear, and must be downright
atrocious when speaking a more musical language than English, like
Sperethiel or Welsh.

Ork, I imagine, is more guttural language.... not grunts and such like
someone suggested, but relying more on the back of the throat than
delicate tongue-waving for speech. I suspect a troll speaking Sperethiel
is likely to cut up his tongue pretty well on his tusks until he gets used
to it <g>
Message no. 11
From: Franck <jptheria@*********.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:29:35 -0500
><<Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
>Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a troll).>>
>
>How do you mean? I thought any race was able to learn Sperethiel.

Think about it. Who knows Sperethiel? Mostly elves from the Tirs. With
their smug arrogance, do you think they'll teach "a mere troll" such a
language?

So trolls could learn it in theory, but in practice they would have a tough
time doing so. Better make an airtight background for how your character
got to know it.

(BTW, this applies also to Orks, Dwarves and Humans.)
Message no. 12
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:36:24 -0500
><<Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn
>unlike Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel
>when you are a troll).>>
>
>How do you mean? I thought any race was able to learn Sperethiel.

Sperethiel is a very complex and subtle language; even most of the elves of
the world don't speak it, according to some of the sourcebooks. The key
word there, though, is subtle. An ork or a troll can take lessons, but
because of their different dentation (in the case of a troll, *really*
different dentation), they can't get the subtle inflections and such down
properly. Ergo, most orks and trolls don't even try.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 13
From: "Dr. Faust" <apocrytha@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:43:40 -0500
Nexx wrote:

> ----------
> > From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
>
> > <<Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
> > Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a
> troll).>>
> >
> > How do you mean? I thought any race was able to learn Sperethiel.
>
> It has to do with the shape of a troll's mouth and teeth. Their speech is
> often fairly inflectionless to the human ear, and must be downright
> atrocious when speaking a more musical language than English, like
> Sperethiel or Welsh.
>
> Ork, I imagine, is more guttural language.... not grunts and such like
> someone suggested, but relying more on the back of the throat than
> delicate tongue-waving for speech. I suspect a troll speaking Sperethiel
> is likely to cut up his tongue pretty well on his tusks until he gets used
> to it <g>

Spetheriel is Celtic, Orkish is probally going to be Germanic. Germanic
Languages in general (with the exception of English for the most part since
thats old Anglo-Saxon and Latin and Greek mixed togethered and is alot less
gutteral) because they are more gutteral.

--
"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."
Message no. 14
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:57:27 -0500
On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:14:26 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 8/29/98 7:01:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
<SNIP>
>Something we did here in the home games was this. Mr. Page, we made one
of
>the elders in control of the Ork Underground, studied the text for
roughly 6
>months or so, getting himself a pretty high up with skill in it (let's
say a
>6). He then turns around and makes a skillsoft out of it. Instead of
selling
>it, he made a total of 10 master copies of the same chip. These 10 he
gave to
>10 different people at the same time. He had a request of them however,
they
>needed to make two additional copies of this chip, and give them to two
other
>people. Those two people in return had to do the same thing also, and
so on,
>and so on.

Oh no! Say it ain't so! A chain chip??? ARGH!!! You guys really ARE
evil, you know that??? ;)

<SNIP>
>-Herc
>------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

Mechanic and creator of the evil Chain Chip (TM) :P~

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 15
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:23:14 -0500
On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:55:49 EDT Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
writes:
<SNIP>
>Even though it makes no mention of another language among the text, I
would
>assume the computers of 2060 could decode it quickly enough. Given that,
it
>would be pretty quickly disemmenated throughout Orc places. (Though
probably
>more through word of mouth than tech-reasons, the orc underground would
not be
>the most technological place IMO)

A computer can't go *POOF* and translate a language. Even with the
proposed Quatum Computers, there are limits on the computer's
capabilities. It all depends on the basis of the language and how easily
it relates to other languages. I mean, for example, does phrase x
represent a concept, a word, a person, or even a letter? Can you
possibly imagine what it would be like trying to decipher the Kanji (sp?)
if there were no people living who understood it and no similar alphabet?
It'd be damn near impossible if not impossible!

<SNIP>
> Dunk of course could have taught such languages himself throughout
the
>years, as any of the Immortals could have (even the IBBC-immortal
blackberry
>cats) And why not try to help other races too? (The Trolls system of
honor or
>even bringing to light the Dwarves Book of Tommorow) Sure the others
might
>have been mad, but he could have leaked it through another (blame it on
>Alamais, he has that thing with elves :-)

This gave me an idea but by the time I got through ranting about the
assumed miracle workings of the computer, I forgot ... damn ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 16
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 01:17:06 -0700
>Unfortunately, a skillsoft is of about zero help to those of us who like
>our essence the way it is, probably leaving many ork and troll magic users
>to say something like "Speratemel rel timaan perest? Hellon Sperethiel,"
>though perhaps not in those precise words.
>

Its of no use to them, until thier chipped chum takes the time to teach
them the language.
Sheesh, you think all de cybered folks is good for is da killin an da
maimin, and mages gots nothig to loin from demz?

Mongoose, the elven ork and walking skillsoft
Message no. 17
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:17:25 EDT
In a message dated 8/29/98 9:37:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
casanova@***.passagen.se writes:

> > Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
> > Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a
troll)
> .
>
> So what is orc like anyway ? a bunch of weird grunts and moans sort
> of like caveman speak or what ?
>
Maybe yes, maybe no, I see it as being a lingo on the Earthdawn common tongue,
which, IIRC, is a off-shoot of the dwarven languages.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

P.S. casanova, your emailer is overriding the list addy.
Message no. 18
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:21:42 EDT
In a message dated 8/29/98 10:19:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Chocobo219@***.COM writes:

> <<Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
> Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a
troll).>
> >
>
> How do you mean? I thought any race was able to learn Sperethiel.

The problem is still racism with the language, and the fact that the elves
want the language to be not taught to certain peoples so that they can retain
some sembleance of purity.

Ah, but most of the people who know Sperethiel are either snobs or elves, and
most of them who know the language won't teach it to an ork or troll, though I
did have one the runner's in the group teach it to several metas on several
occassions though.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 19
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:30:48 EDT
In a message dated 8/29/98 11:26:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> He then turns around and makes a skillsoft out of it. Instead of
> selling
> >it, he made a total of 10 master copies of the same chip. These 10 he
> gave to
> >10 different people at the same time. He had a request of them however,
> they
> >needed to make two additional copies of this chip, and give them to two
> other
> >people. Those two people in return had to do the same thing also, and
> so on,
> >and so on.
>
> Oh no! Say it ain't so! A chain chip??? ARGH!!! You guys really ARE
> evil, you know that??? ;)

Yes, the objective was to disseminate the information on the chips as fast as
possible so that the language would spread relatively quickly before any of
the elves moved in to keep the Orks from learning of the heritage at the same
time also.

K and I made the book more than just the language, it is also a lore book,
containing tales of Ork peoples, the Skypirates, and other things.

They also mention the discrimination shown by the Elves when they closed off
their cities when many nations were at war with some enemy and were losing.
The Ork, other tribes ran for sanctuary, and found none in the elven cities.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

> <SNIP>
> >-Herc
> >------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> Mechanic and creator of the evil Chain Chip (TM) :P~
Message no. 20
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:34:15 EDT
In a message dated 8/29/98 11:28:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:55:49 EDT Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
> writes:
> <SNIP>
> >Even though it makes no mention of another language among the text, I
> would
> >assume the computers of 2060 could decode it quickly enough. Given that,
> it
> >would be pretty quickly disemmenated throughout Orc places. (Though
> probably
> >more through word of mouth than tech-reasons, the orc underground would
> not be
> >the most technological place IMO)
>
> A computer can't go *POOF* and translate a language. Even with the
> proposed Quatum Computers, there are limits on the computer's
> capabilities. It all depends on the basis of the language and how easily
> it relates to other languages. I mean, for example, does phrase x
> represent a concept, a word, a person, or even a letter? Can you
> possibly imagine what it would be like trying to decipher the Kanji (sp?)
> if there were no people living who understood it and no similar alphabet?
> It'd be damn near impossible if not impossible!

Umm, with the assistance of a tailor-made variation on Translate, the base
letters of the alphabet could have been made, and the remainder of the
translation would have been done by hand. I don't see Mr. Page putting it
onto computer as this would allow for deckers to make changes to basic
meanings of words and phrases that would screw a lot of things up.

> <SNIP>
> > Dunk of course could have taught such languages himself throughout
> the
> >years, as any of the Immortals could have (even the IBBC-immortal
> blackberry
> >cats) And why not try to help other races too? (The Trolls system of
> honor or
> >even bringing to light the Dwarves Book of Tommorow) Sure the others
> might
> >have been mad, but he could have leaked it through another (blame it on
> >Alamais, he has that thing with elves :-)
>
> This gave me an idea but by the time I got through ranting about the
> assumed miracle workings of the computer, I forgot ... damn ...

Yep, you did.

I can see Mr. Page being both heavily guarded and living deep within the
domains of the Ork Underground in Seattle.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 21
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:58:07 -0600
Dr. Faust wrote:
/
/ Spetheriel is Celtic, Orkish is probally going to be Germanic. Germanic
/ Languages in general (with the exception of English for the most part since
/ thats old Anglo-Saxon and Latin and Greek mixed togethered and is alot less
/ gutteral) because they are more gutteral.

Spetheriel is not Celtic. It is a completely seperate language that
predates modern languages by many millenia. It is the elish language
from Earthdawn.

The original orkish would not be germanic. It might be the root for
germanic languages tho <shrug>.

BTW, your reply-to field is overiding the list.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 22
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:16:28 -0400
David Buehrer wrote:

> Spetheriel is not Celtic. It is a completely seperate language that
> predates modern languages by many millenia. It is the elish language
> from Earthdawn.
>

Then perhaps Celtic derived from Sperethiel. But I agree that the
closest human language to Sper is Celtic, seeing as well, Tir Na Nog is
there, etc.
Likewise, I can see Orkish being compared to Germanic, as a gutteral
influence would be evident. To add to the list, I could also see
Dwarvish language, if there is one, perhaps tied to Russian? SOmehow, I
can see Siberian dwarves...


--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 23
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:49:44 -0500
On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:34:15 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 8/29/98 11:28:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>> On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:55:49 EDT Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
>> writes:
>> <SNIP>
>> >Even though it makes no mention of another language among the text, I
would
>> >assume the computers of 2060 could decode it quickly enough. Given
that, it
>> >would be pretty quickly disemmenated throughout Orc places. (Though
^^^
Btw, michael, in SR it's Ork. Lord of the Rings (I think) it's Orc. The
difference is copyright infringement. :)

>> >probably
>> >more through word of mouth than tech-reasons, the orc underground
would not >> >be
>> >the most technological place IMO)

<SNIP Computer.Rant>
>Umm, with the assistance of a tailor-made variation on Translate, the
base
>letters of the alphabet could have been made, and the remainder of the
>translation would have been done by hand. I don't see Mr. Page putting
it
>onto computer as this would allow for deckers to make changes to basic
>meanings of words and phrases that would screw a lot of things up.

Uhm.... Even the Translate spell in Awakenings requires that someone (the
target) know the language being translated be present. Therefore, what
makes you think that the Translate spell you propose is possible? The
Drain code would unbelievable! (Afterall, the spell would have to seek
out someone who knew the language in question and that may mean a global
mind probe or the equivelent of Postcognition going back 10,000+ years!
[isn't it 16,000?])

>> <SNIP>
>> > Dunk of course could have taught such languages himself throughout
the
>> >years, as any of the Immortals could have (even the IBBC-immortal
>> >blackberry
>> >cats) And why not try to help other races too? (The Trolls system of
honor
>> >or
>> >even bringing to light the Dwarves Book of Tommorow) Sure the others
might
>> >have been mad, but he could have leaked it through another (blame it
on
>> >Alamais, he has that thing with elves :-)

>> This gave me an idea but by the time I got through ranting about the
>> assumed miracle workings of the computer, I forgot ... damn ...

>Yep, you did.
>
>I can see Mr. Page being both heavily guarded and living deep within the
>domains of the Ork Underground in Seattle.
>
>-Herc
>------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

No I remember. Do you think an Ork can summon an Ancestor spirit that
knows Orkish?

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 24
From: "Dr. Faust" <apocrytha@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:06:31 -0500
Jett wrote:

> David Buehrer wrote:
>
> > Spetheriel is not Celtic. It is a completely seperate language that
> > predates modern languages by many millenia. It is the elish language
> > from Earthdawn.
> >
>
> Then perhaps Celtic derived from Sperethiel. But I agree that the
> closest human language to Sper is Celtic, seeing as well, Tir Na Nog is
> there, etc.
> Likewise, I can see Orkish being compared to Germanic, as a gutteral
> influence would be evident. To add to the list, I could also see
> Dwarvish language, if there is one, perhaps tied to Russian? SOmehow, I
> can see Siberian dwarves...
>
> --Jett
>
> <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
>
> "I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
> occasional advice or insult."
> --Jett, on being an NPC
>
> Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!
>
> http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm

If Dwarvish was more like Russian then it'd be more Slavic which I can see
little Dwarves talking in Russian.

--
"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death
may die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."
Message no. 25
From: Michael Coleman <mscoleman@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:00:27 -0500
> > <<Just because it sounds cool and is something anyone can learn unlike
> > Sperethiel (it's a bummer trying to learn Sperethiel when you are a
> troll).>
> > >
> >
> > How do you mean? I thought any race was able to learn Sperethiel.
>
> The problem is still racism with the language, and the fact that the elves
> want the language to be not taught to certain peoples so that
> they can retain
> some sembleance of purity.
>
> Ah, but most of the people who know Sperethiel are either snobs
> or elves, and
> most of them who know the language won't teach it to an ork or
> troll, though I
> did have one the runner's in the group teach it to several metas
> on several
> occassions though.
>
> -Herc
> ------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

I wonder how pure Sperethiel can stay in the coming years. I am pretty sure
Sperethiel does not have words for modern terms, like "matrix", "dimethyl
sulfoxide (DMSO)", "Datajack", etc. It will probably be sucking up forgien
terms all over the place. I have not heard about a Sperethiel purity
convention like the French have or the Russian before the break up of the
USSR.

Mike
Message no. 26
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:22:54 EDT
In a message dated 8/30/98 2:59:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mscoleman@********.NET writes:

> I wonder how pure Sperethiel can stay in the coming years. I am pretty sure
> Sperethiel does not have words for modern terms, like "matrix",
"dimethyl
> sulfoxide (DMSO)", "Datajack", etc. It will probably be sucking up
forgien
> terms all over the place. I have not heard about a Sperethiel purity
> convention like the French have or the Russian before the break up of the
> USSR.

A character of mine actually has Sperethiel/ Tarislarian, which I would say
is the slang used in that neighborhood.
Message no. 27
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:26:31 EDT
In a message dated 8/30/98 1:54:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dghost@****.COM
writes:

> No I remember. Do you think an Ork can summon an Ancestor spirit that
> knows Orkish?
As long as he knows such an ancestor exists, and has some links to him, sure
why not?
I was thinking of having a Jackalman group in Egypt that had reformed som
ehint of their ED society from contacting an ancestor whose tomb they found.
It could work other ways also, as I said in another post, I liked the Troll
Society (the honor system and such) and would like to see a resurgence of
suchMaybe that is what the Troll kingdom of the Black Forest is working on?
Message no. 28
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:54:50 +0100
Jett said on 16:16/30 Aug 98,...

> Dwarvish language, if there is one, perhaps tied to Russian?

Probably more like Ukranian, seeing how Barsaive is in the
Ukraine.

--
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 29
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:33:11 -0400
At 06:58 PM 8/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>One of Dunkie's bequests was to an ork by the name of Robert Page. He
>left him an ancient text that proved elves were not the only race to have
>a unique language. Supposedly, this would have been a "Rosetta Stone" of
>sorts for at least the orkish language, as well as those of dwarves,
>trolls, windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen. Would this language have been

Um, what? Nothing is mentioned there about dwarves, trolls or the ED and
not SR races of windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen.

>brought to light yet, 3 years later? I would assume that it would require
>a fluent speaker of elven to translate (unless Dunky added something in a
>more modern language). Any thoughts?

Okay, the mention doesn't say it's a Rosetta Stone to my knowledge. It
merely proves that the orks had their own language. This ancient text
might not have more than a few sentences and phrases in a different
language and there might not be notes as to what those sentences mean. And
if it did, it would be insufficient to use to create an entire orkish
language.

It is my opinion that too much is being read into this particular piece of
SR info. But as usual, your mileage may vary.

Erik J.
Message no. 30
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:46:39 -0500
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> At 06:58 PM 8/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >One of Dunkie's bequests was to an ork by the name of Robert Page. He
> >left him an ancient text that proved elves were not the only race to
have
> >a unique language. Supposedly, this would have been a "Rosetta Stone"
of
> >sorts for at least the orkish language, as well as those of dwarves,
> >trolls, windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen. Would this language have
been
>
> Um, what? Nothing is mentioned there about dwarves, trolls or the ED
and
> not SR races of windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen.

The second part was my own embellishment, actually, and I freely admit to
that.

> >brought to light yet, 3 years later? I would assume that it would
require
> >a fluent speaker of elven to translate (unless Dunky added something in
a
> >more modern language). Any thoughts?
>
> Okay, the mention doesn't say it's a Rosetta Stone to my knowledge. It
> merely proves that the orks had their own language. This ancient text
> might not have more than a few sentences and phrases in a different
> language and there might not be notes as to what those sentences mean.
And
> if it did, it would be insufficient to use to create an entire orkish
> language.

hbjnrdnidfsio;lkj. There. I wrote something in orkish. It exists, that
proves that its orkish. That's essentially what you're arguing.

In order to prove that something is a language (and not an elaborate
cypher), its going to take more than a few sentences, and its going to
have to be compared to at least one other language. A computer can run
the brute-force comparisons, but the other things are going to require
skilled linguists. If Dunky really wanted to prove that such a language
existed (and you also have to take into account Dunkie's general policy of
revealing the 4th world to people), he would have made sure that it was
not only incontrovertible proof (that even the racists would have a hard
time dismissing), but that it was usable.


********
Pope Nexx Many-Scars
aka Rev. Mark Hall
* * *
"I'd like to live long enough to be there the day they stick you head on a
pike, as a reminder to the next ten generations that some favours come
with a price too high to pay. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave,
like this."
- Vir Cotto
Message no. 31
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:26:11 -0400
At 02:46 PM 8/31/98 -0500, you wrote:

>> Um, what? Nothing is mentioned there about dwarves, trolls or the ED
>and
>> not SR races of windlings, t'skrang and obsidimen.
>
>The second part was my own embellishment, actually, and I freely admit to
>that.

Okay. Got no problem, per se, with House Rules and embellishments as long
as they are indicated as such. Gotcha.

>> Okay, the mention doesn't say it's a Rosetta Stone to my knowledge. It
>> merely proves that the orks had their own language. This ancient text
>> might not have more than a few sentences and phrases in a different
>> language and there might not be notes as to what those sentences mean.
>And
>> if it did, it would be insufficient to use to create an entire orkish
>> language.
>
>hbjnrdnidfsio;lkj. There. I wrote something in orkish. It exists, that
>proves that its orkish. That's essentially what you're arguing.

Largely. I'm thinking more along the lines of perhaps a several line
paragraph perhaps, or a bit of transcribed dialogue, enough that it would
clearly have a basic structure and that is is clearly a full language and
not a cypher. But not enough dialogue to be an orkish language manual.

>In order to prove that something is a language (and not an elaborate
>cypher), its going to take more than a few sentences, and its going to
>have to be compared to at least one other language. A computer can run
>the brute-force comparisons, but the other things are going to require
>skilled linguists.

True. I'm just not of the opinion that there would be enough to learn the
full language. Enough to prove the existence of such a language (which
would then cause debate amongst scholars as to it's roots and if it was an
orkish language, where have all the orks been the last several thousand
years...). But not enough for anyone to learn orkish from the ancient text.

But I'll agree that skilled linguists are going to be required and their
work takes time, hard work and inspiration.

>If Dunky really wanted to prove that such a language
>existed (and you also have to take into account Dunkie's general policy of
>revealing the 4th world to people), he would have made sure that it was
>not only incontrovertible proof (that even the racists would have a hard
>time dismissing), but that it was usable.

Well, I think we all know how blind hatred is, so racists wouldn't care how
much "proof" was presented to them.

Actually given the Big D's stance on revealing the Fourth Age, I would
suspect that the text is at the minimum strongly suggestive, if not
incontrovertible. But I don't see him automatically giving the entire
language away; I'm not convinced that he would give them something usable.
Useful, yes. Usable, maybe. Remember that even the Big D wanted the
humans to work for their achievements, he wasn't too keen on simply
*giving* away the goodies.

I could see the text providing proof of an ancient language and perhaps
some clues as to where more information might be found. Perhaps it's a
description of an ancient library that's been buried for a few millenia or
something. Once properly translated, it could potentially lead people to
this library. Of course, nearly all the books are either rotted away or
turn to dust with a touch...except perhaps for a single book with metal
pages that would then provide a true key to an orkish language. This is
obviously non-canon on my part, but it strikes me as something inline with
the Big D's modus operandi.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 32
From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:49:54 EDT
<< Of course, nearly all the books are either rotted away or
turn to dust with a touch...except perhaps for a single book with metal
pages that would then provide a true key to an orkish language.>>

Well if one does GM true to Earthdawn being the 4th World, then I doubt the
books would be crumbling. This is an entirely different idea all together, but
the Atlantean organization could very well find the remains of Thera's
library. Admittedly, bot as good as the Library of Throal. I'm going off the
top of my head hear about the names, I''ve decided to be lazy and not take a
look at my Earthdawn books.
Message no. 33
From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:56:28 EDT
Sorry about the break, I pressed the wrong button.

<< Of course, nearly all the books are either rotted away or
turn to dust with a touch...except perhaps for a single book with metal
pages that would then provide a true key to an orkish language.>>

Well if one does GM true to Earthdawn being the 4th World, then I doubt the
books would be crumbling. This is an entirely different idea all together, but
the Atlantean organization could very well find the remains of Thera's
library. Admittedly, bot as good as the Library of Throal. I'm going off the
top of my head hear about the names, I''ve decided to be lazy and not take a
look at my Earthdawn books.
The books in both libraries would be protected, at least the important ones.
Now I've never thought of this before, but could the Therans or Dwarves have
used True Wood as a way for protecting books, as in writing on it?


Steel Katana
-Still waiting for Verjigorm to fess up to Big D's assasination
Message no. 34
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:23:17 -0400
At 06:56 PM 8/31/98 EDT, you wrote:

><< Of course, nearly all the books are either rotted away or
>turn to dust with a touch...except perhaps for a single book with metal
>pages that would then provide a true key to an orkish language.>>
>
> Well if one does GM true to Earthdawn being the 4th World, then I
doubt >the books would be crumbling.

Um, why? True Wood and magical protective spells would likely be pointless
in an age in which there is no magic, i.e., the Fifth World. I would think
that their protections would fail once the magic level dropped to far...at
that point they are on their own and books have this really annoying
tendency to rot and otherwise fall apart, and it doesn't take long for that
process to start.

I'm not actually that big a fan of ED/SR crossover stuff despite my earlier
idea (referenced above) but I'd be more than willing to let people find an
ancient Fourth Age library only to have the books all fall apart at a
touch...that tragic, so close but yet so far thing...kinda like what
happens to Mulder in the X-Files on a number of occassions, he has proof
then it slips, sometimes literally, right through his fingers.

>-Still waiting for Verjigorm to fess up to Big D's assasination

Not gonna happen dude. Read "The Dragonheart Trilogy" to find out why.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 35
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:12:13 EDT
In a message dated 8/31/98 12:49:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nexx@********.NET writes:

> If Dunky really wanted to prove that such a language
> existed (and you also have to take into account Dunkie's general policy of
> revealing the 4th world to people), he would have made sure that it was
> not only incontrovertible proof (that even the racists would have a hard
> time dismissing), but that it was usable.
After thinking a little more, it also really doesn't say that Robert Page is
from the ork inderground (sorta implies that with the "from below" part, but
still)
I think he may have been an ork that Dunk just wanted to inspire, perhaps he
was losing faith.
Message no. 36
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:14:01 -0500
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> >hbjnrdnidfsio;lkj. There. I wrote something in orkish. It exists,
that
> >proves that its orkish. That's essentially what you're arguing.
>
> Largely. I'm thinking more along the lines of perhaps a several line
> paragraph perhaps, or a bit of transcribed dialogue, enough that it
would
> clearly have a basic structure and that is is clearly a full language
and
> not a cypher. But not enough dialogue to be an orkish language manual.

Well, for one thing, I think its a lot more fun if it turns out to be
enough to create a language... imagine some characters in the Underground,
hearing two orks speaking to each other in a language no one has ever
heard of planning... what? Make it important in the run and you've got
some real fun. What do your characters do when everyone is speaking a
language they don't know and can't get chips for?

OTOH, I don't think it would be an Intro to Conversational Orkish
textbook. I think that there would likely be enough that you could
establish a very basic vocabulary and get a good idea of the rules of
grammar (perhaps its some sort of racism, but I don't see Ork as being a
horribly complex language grammatically). A lot of things would have to
be improvised as time went on. After all, Elvish grew and aged in the
downcycle, but the Ork language would be raw, and not have words for a lot
of things we take for granted (electricity, for example)

> >If Dunky really wanted to prove that such a language
> >existed (and you also have to take into account Dunkie's general policy
of
> >revealing the 4th world to people), he would have made sure that it was
> >not only incontrovertible proof (that even the racists would have a
hard
> >time dismissing), but that it was usable.
>
> Well, I think we all know how blind hatred is, so racists wouldn't care
how
> much "proof" was presented to them.

True. But its fun to watch them try to scramble for ways to justify their
ignorance (which are usually flimsy enough you can shoot them down again,
making them scramble for more reasons...)

> Useful, yes. Usable, maybe. Remember that even the Big D wanted the
> humans to work for their achievements, he wasn't too keen on simply
> *giving* away the goodies.

True. But he also didn't like the degree of secrecy that he was forced to
live under. Maybe dead, he decided to give everyone the talon (like
offering the First Key of Power to whichever Elven nation revealed the
full history of its leaders first... if that's not flipping them off from
beyond the grave, I don't know what is).

> I could see the text providing proof of an ancient language and perhaps
> some clues as to where more information might be found. Perhaps it's a
> description of an ancient library that's been buried for a few millenia
or
> something. Once properly translated, it could potentially lead people
to
> this library.

Now this I like. It provides the opportunity for the language to become
known, but it also provides a lot of running opportunities. Trust me, it
is very much fun to take runners into a dungeon crawl... especially if you
do something like put a Hive or even one of the Enemy down there
(Jarendale had a library, right? <g>)

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yeilding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend.
If you pardon, we will mend.
-
So good night unto you all.
Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.
-Puck "A Midsummer Night's Dream"
Message no. 37
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:55:52 -0500
On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:23:17 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>At 06:56 PM 8/31/98 EDT, you wrote:
>><< Of course, nearly all the books are either rotted away or
>>turn to dust with a touch...except perhaps for a single book with metal
>>pages that would then provide a true key to an orkish language.>>

>> Well if one does GM true to Earthdawn being the 4th World, then I
doubt
>>the books would be crumbling.

>Um, why? True Wood and magical protective spells would likely be
pointless
>in an age in which there is no magic, i.e., the Fifth World. I would
think
>that their protections would fail once the magic level dropped to
far...at
>that point they are on their own and books have this really annoying
>tendency to rot and otherwise fall apart, and it doesn't take long for
that
>process to start.

Well, if Dunk had the book, then it could have been protected. Not
magicly, but rather like in an airsealed vault. That would help it
survive this long (Though the pages might be brittle.) Hmmm... I gather
from the info in Dunk's will (about other gifts) that any magical
enchantments the book had would still be intact. I wonder if in the
Sixth World the book is starting to rejuvinate ... Hmmm ... other nifty
effects? Built in Translate spell? (would be easier to do in the 4th
world by someone who knows the language than in the Sixth by someone who
doesn't)

<SNIP>
>Erik J.
<SNIP Sig>

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 38
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 02:36:27 -0700
Nexx wrote:

> > >hbjnrdnidfsio;lkj. There. I wrote something in orkish. It exists,
> > > that
> > >proves that its orkish. That's essentially what you're arguing.

Though I don't have PoaD in front of me, wasn't the effort not so much
to create an Ork language, but to prove that here had been one
historically? (IE, a 'language like Sperethiel' -- one that they could
claim for historical reasons.)


- Matt

------------------------------------
GridSec: SRCard / Freedonian Research Assistant / BABY #92
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 39
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:10:00 -0500
>>-Still waiting for Verjigorm to fess up to Big D's assasination
>
>Not gonna happen dude. Read "The Dragonheart Trilogy" to find out why.

Stupid Question Dept.: Who's Verjigorm? I'm really not up on all the
dragons out there....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 40
From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:34:25 EDT
In a message dated 8/31/98 4:26:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> >-Still waiting for Verjigorm to fess up to Big D's assasination
>
> Not gonna happen dude. Read "The Dragonheart Trilogy" to find out why.

It was a joke... oh man...<shakes head from side to side>

Steel Katana
Message no. 41
From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:59:01 EDT
In a message dated 8/31/98 7:35:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> >>-Still waiting for Verjigorm to fess up to Big D's assasination
> >
> >Not gonna happen dude. Read "The Dragonheart Trilogy" to find out
why.
>
> Stupid Question Dept.: Who's Verjigorm? I'm really not up on all the
> dragons out there....

Don't worry about it, not only was that a joke, but its from Earthdawn.
Verjigorm was the Horror who hunted Great Dragons. Horrors are dark creatures
that surface when the Magic cycle is high enough.

Steel Katana
Message no. 42
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:36:11 EDT
In a message dated 8/31/98 8:26:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Chocobo219@***.COM writes:

> Horrors are dark creatures
> that surface when the Magic cycle is high enough.
or when W**dCh**ks threaten to overrun the RNworld, they do have a good side
too ya know.
Message no. 43
From: Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:37:11 -0400
On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:59:01 EDT Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM> writes:

>Don't worry about it, not only was that a joke, but its from Earthdawn.
>Verjigorm was the Horror who hunted Great Dragons. Horrors are dark
creatures
>that surface when the Magic cycle is high enough.

<Matt's first mini-rant>

And that, thankfully, won't happen anytime soon thanks to FASAMike and
Jak Koke. The Horrors tried to get through early, but they were stopped
thanks to a...well, whole bunch of stuff that'd be spoiling the Dragon
Heart trilogy. Far be it from me to keep people from reading books for
themselves.

Did you know that actually I liked SR/ED crossovers? That was before I
actually read Earthdawn. Great game. But the thought of them keeping up
with the Horrors and turning SR into something resembling a WW
game...blech. Though I still have a fondness for IE as the occasional
plot device.

<end Matt's first mini-rant>

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
***********************************
"Of course, not to assume there are *no* Horrors running around my SR
world..."

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Message no. 44
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:11:35 +0100
And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>>-Still waiting for Verjigorm to fess up to Big D's assasination
|>
|>Not gonna happen dude. Read "The Dragonheart Trilogy" to find out why.
|
|Stupid Question Dept.: Who's Verjigorm? I'm really not up on all the
|dragons out there....

Say that in front of a Dragon, and you're toast....
Verjigorm is the dragons REAL mortal enemy. He's a big'n'nasty horror
capable of "re-naming" dragons, and turning them into evil tristed things
that will do his bidding....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 45
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:52:16 -0500
>|Stupid Question Dept.: Who's Verjigorm? I'm really not up on all the
>|dragons out there....
>
>Say that in front of a Dragon, and you're toast....

Thus, Stupid Question Dept.... <g>

>Verjigorm is the dragons REAL mortal enemy. He's a big'n'nasty horror
>capable of "re-naming" dragons, and turning them into evil tristed things
>that will do his bidding....

This would be a bad thing, yes....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 46
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:08:26 -0400
Matt T Ork wrote:
>
> -Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
> ***********************************
> "Of course, not to assume there are *no* Horrors running around my SR
> world..."

Heh.. The major antagonist in my last campaign was a wraith (minor
Horror) with some extra power and intelligence and an overdeveloped sense
of grandeur. It called itself the Reaper. It was running a sizable chunk
of Seattle's political underbelly, and had its fingers extended into other
major cities. One of the PC's was actually a double-agent, an initiate in
the Reaper's magical group, and was trying like hell to figure out how to
kill it without setting off the cortex bomb in her head.

Of course, the Reaper's goals were simple:
1.) Accumulate as much power as possible;
2.) Stop the other Horrors from entering the world. (Why share?)

Made for some good plot hooks (_Harlequin's Back_ blended right into the
arc, though the players hated it for other reasons), and a pervasive sense
of paranoia over the whole campaign, since the other PC's had figured out
early that there were loyalties divided. Even *before* one of the other
PC's started learning blood magic from a Horror-construct, and the Draco
Foundation started keeping tabs on them, and they found out that Excalibur
was Purifier, and... >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley (My next campaign is low-level for a reason...)
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 47
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:57:59 EDT
In a message dated 8/31/98 6:51:28 PM AST, Chocobo219@***.COM writes:

> Well if one does GM true to Earthdawn being the 4th World, then I
> doubt the
> books would be crumbling. This is an entirely different idea all together,
> but
> the Atlantean organization could very well find the remains of Thera's
> library. Admittedly, bot as good as the Library of Throal. I'm going off
the
> top of my head hear about the names, I''ve decided to be lazy and not take
a
> look at my Earthdawn books.
>

I don't play Earthdawn. These libraries are detailed in Earthdawn?
Message no. 48
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:06:52 PDT
>From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
>Subject: Re: Ork Language

>> Unfortunately, a skillsoft is of about zero help to those of us who
like
>> our essence the way it is, probably leaving many ork and troll magic
users
>> to say something like "Speratemel rel timaan perest? Hellon
Sperethiel,"
>> though perhaps not in those precise words.
>Umm, you can use a skillsoft to learn a skill though. And you can put
it into
>something to act as a translator.

Not a flame, but, I disagree.. Skillsoft's give you the raw data,
like you knew it.. In order to LEARN a skill, you need something that
can present that information in a format where you can understand the
data.. I can stare at a programming language I've never seen before,
but without something to learn it from, I'm only going to get marginal
knowledge of it from the raw data..


---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 49
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:25:13 -0400
On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Thomas Charron wrote:

->>From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
->>Subject: Re: Ork Language
->
<Snip skillsoft idea for language>
->
-> Not a flame, but, I disagree.. Skillsoft's give you the raw data,
->like you knew it.. In order to LEARN a skill, you need something that
->can present that information in a format where you can understand the
->data.. I can stare at a programming language I've never seen before,
->but without something to learn it from, I'm only going to get marginal
->knowledge of it from the raw data..

Whoa. Brainstorm(fart, depending on point of view).
Datasofts are pure data.
Linguasofts make you an instant native speaker.
Activesofts make you an instant master (or whatever).
Knowsofts make you a scientist (doctor, whatever).

What about Instructsofts? A chip who's purpose is to teach a
character something in the shortest period of time possible?
Game terms: Karma must be present still to purchase skill
(consider it a calm, open mind) but the costs are half normal. Of course,
the chips themselves would be expensive as hell. And you can only learn
the skill at the rating the chip is at.
Armed COmbat instructsoft Rating 5 would be useless to anyone
other than a character with Armed combat 4 (since a 3 wouldn't be able to
follow as well and a 5 or better would already know it). Expensive
one-shot usage should make up for the incredible benefits gained. How
about MPx500 Nuyen for costs and make the MP equal to a skillsoft of equal
rating * 2 (to reflect the teaching programming).
Thoughts?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 50
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:23:22 -0400
At 10:34 PM 8/31/98 EDT, you wrote:

>> >-Still waiting for Verjigorm to fess up to Big D's assasination
>>
>> Not gonna happen dude. Read "The Dragonheart Trilogy" to find out
why.
>
>It was a joke... oh man...<shakes head from side to side>

Next time, put a smiley or some other notifier when you are
joking...otherwise you get people taking you seriously. A simple :-) or
j/k is all that's needed.

Besides, there are plenty of folks who haven't read that Trilogy nor do
they know what happened.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 51
From: "Christopher M. Coulter" <kamikaze@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:10:02 +0000
> Not a flame, but, I disagree.. Skillsoft's give you the raw data,
> like you knew it.. In order to LEARN a skill, you need something that
> can present that information in a format where you can understand the
> data.. I can stare at a programming language I've never seen before,
> but without something to learn it from, I'm only going to get marginal
> knowledge of it from the raw data..

Learning it from skillsoft is like having a book in your head. If
it's a math skillsoft, you have a bunch of formulas that don't mean
jack. If it's a language one, you have the from Whatever to English
book in your head and would need to know where to look in order to
get know that some Mideastern Troll called you a wussie. For that
type of processing, you would need to be a real good student of the
chip. At least that's my view on it.

Christopher M. Coulter
Message no. 52
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:14:42 -0400
Dhl9@***.COM wrote:
> In a message dated 8/31/98 6:51:28 PM AST, Chocobo219@***.COM writes:
>
> > Well if one does GM true to Earthdawn being the 4th World, then I
> > doubt the
> > books would be crumbling. This is an entirely different idea all together,
> > but
> > the Atlantean organization could very well find the remains of Thera's
> > library. Admittedly, bot as good as the Library of Throal. I'm going off
> the
> > top of my head hear about the names, I''ve decided to be lazy and not take
> a
> > look at my Earthdawn books.
> >
>
> I don't play Earthdawn. These libraries are detailed in Earthdawn?

Sort of. Many of the Earthdawn sourcebooks are fictionalized under the
cover of "manuscripts in the Library of Throal," just as Shadowrun
sourcebooks are "postings to the Shadowland BBS." Adventurers scribble
their notes in the margins... There's even a major character, Merrox, who
acts as the analogue of Captain Chaos.

However, it would *not* be true that the Library of Throal is superior to
the Library of Thera. Thera, the island, is more-or-less the "world
capital" of the mid-Fourth-World, and its library and scholars are
legendary. Throal is just a rebellious dwarven kingdom governing a minor
province, Barsaive, which can be considered the Seattle of Earthdawn.
It's not the totality of the game world, but almost all of FASA's action
happens there.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 53
From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:03:17 EDT
In a message dated 9/1/98 8:59:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Dhl9@***.COM
writes:

> I don't play Earthdawn. These libraries are detailed in Earthdawn?
>

Well, almost all of the Earthdawn sourcebooks with adventure hooks and
information about races and adepts are made in the form of entries to the
Library of Throal.

Steel Katana
Message no. 54
From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:07:45 EDT
In a message dated 9/1/98 9:23:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> Next time, put a smiley or some other notifier when you are
> joking...otherwise you get people taking you seriously. A simple :-) or
> j/k is all that's needed.

Welp, sorry about that. I just thought it was obvious. From now on I'll use
notifiers.

Steel Katana
Message no. 55
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:24:13 -0400
On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Christopher M. Coulter wrote:

->> Not a flame, but, I disagree.. Skillsoft's give you the raw data,
->> like you knew it.. In order to LEARN a skill, you need something that
->> can present that information in a format where you can understand the
->> data.. I can stare at a programming language I've never seen before,
->> but without something to learn it from, I'm only going to get marginal
->> knowledge of it from the raw data..
->
->Learning it from skillsoft is like having a book in your head. If
->it's a math skillsoft, you have a bunch of formulas that don't mean
->jack. If it's a language one, you have the from Whatever to English
->book in your head and would need to know where to look in order to
->get know that some Mideastern Troll called you a wussie. For that
->type of processing, you would need to be a real good student of the
->chip. At least that's my view on it.

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with the former. According to
what I read of skillwires (which aren't used by linguasofts, but bear with
me) regardless of a character's actual skill, the skillwire'd skill
plugged into the link (or loaded into headware memory) is used, even if
the natural skill is higher.
How can this be interpreted for linguasofts? (Or the other
'softs?) Anything plugged into the softlink/headware memory, is
automaticaaly considered "natural". You can't learn it because you
already know it (at least, as long as it's plugged in). The only
exception would be a Datasoft, which is just pure data anyways.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 56
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:15:09 PDT
>From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
>Subject: Re: Ork Language

> What about Instructsofts? A chip who's purpose is to teach a
>character something in the shortest period of time possible?
> Game terms: Karma must be present still to purchase skill
>(consider it a calm, open mind) but the costs are half normal. Of
course,
>the chips themselves would be expensive as hell. And you can only
learn
>the skill at the rating the chip is at.

Hrm.. Ok, I'm REALLY going out on a limb, as I'm at work and can't
look this up, but doesn't BBB3 say somewhere that when using a
Skillsoft, you can't use any of your other skills? I would think that
this would mean that Intrucsofts wouldn't TECHNICALLY work.. But heck,
I'm surethere's some Deltaware that's been modified slightly to allow
it.. Hell, I'm sure they could make some sort of 'Upload to your brain'
functionality.. ;-P OOhh.. Hold on.. I'm drooling.. (PonderPonder)
That'd be evil.. 'Suddenly, the 25 Str Orc has Unarmed Combat 10
downloaded to his brian..'..

OK!! EVERYONE!! ALL TOGETHER NOW!! ;-P

munchmunchmunchmunch OOOOOOhhhhhh
munchmunchmunchmunchIIIIEEEEE!!!!!

(Repeate add nausium...)


---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 57
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:30:27 PDT
>From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
>Subject: Re: Ork Language

> Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with the former. According to
>what I read of skillwires (which aren't used by linguasofts, but bear
with
>me) regardless of a character's actual skill, the skillwire'd skill
>plugged into the link (or loaded into headware memory) is used, even if
>the natural skill is higher.

Hrm.. That's a good reason why you DON'T learn anything from
skillsofts.. Your mind couldn;t really learn what it thought it already
knew, and it uses the chip for memory to access the skill, so when you
where done you wouldn;t have a clue..


---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 58
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ork Language
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:11:45 EDT
In a message dated 9/1/98 10:12:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sfeley@***.NET
writes:

> However, it would *not* be true that the Library of Throal is superior to
> the Library of Thera. Thera, the island, is more-or-less the "world
> capital" of the mid-Fourth-World, and its library and scholars are
> legendary. Throal is just a rebellious dwarven kingdom governing a minor
> province, Barsaive, which can be considered the Seattle of Earthdawn.
> It's not the totality of the game world, but almost all of FASA's action
> happens there.
Note also in case anyone missed it) that in "and so it came to pass" they
mentioned that the Atlantean Foundation has already ransacked Thera (the real
island). Sine Alachia (from ED0 is the head, she has probably already sacked
anything in Barsaive as well.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Ork Language, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

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Thwap!