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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Jeff Perrin <jperrin@*********.net>
Subject: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:08:59 -0400
Hairy Smurf wrote:
>
> At 15:17 6/17/96 +0200, you wrote:
> >everybody's on vacation here? Or I'm unwired, now?
> >
> >Bye, P.
> >Paolo Marcucci
>
> Don't know. Everyone still seems to be on the lists. Majordomo is responding
> and sending messages. Guess everybody is asleep. ????????

how about this for a discussion topic...
Otaku (I haven't been able to get a copy of Virtual Realities 2.0 and it will
be about a week or 2 before it arrives). What are they, how do they affect
game balance, and how to convince them to jackout and bath once and awhile?

--
Luc aka BobW

EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME!
BUT THE CORPSE STILL HAS THE FLOOR!!
--Kevin Spacey as Lloyd in The Ref (1994)
Message no. 2
From: "Dr. Bolthy von Schotz" <bolthy@**.com>
Subject: Re: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:54:22 -0500 (CDT)
On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Jeff Perrin wrote:

> Hairy Smurf wrote:
> >
> > At 15:17 6/17/96 +0200, you wrote:
> > >everybody's on vacation here? Or I'm unwired, now?
> > >
> > >Bye, P.
> > >Paolo Marcucci
> >
> > Don't know. Everyone still seems to be on the lists. Majordomo is responding
> > and sending messages. Guess everybody is asleep. ????????
>
> how about this for a discussion topic...
> Otaku (I haven't been able to get a copy of Virtual Realities 2.0 and it will
> be about a week or 2 before it arrives). What are they, how do they affect
> game balance, and how to convince them to jackout and bath once and awhile?
>

I'd say that under the given rules, they skew game balance a little bit.
I think that it can easily be remedied, though. I can offer my
suggestions if you like.



|\ /\ |\ | |\
|/ \/ | \ |\ | \
|\ /\ | |/ \ |
|/ / \ | | \|

http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bolthy
"Remember: Heaven is Blue. Tomorrow, the world."
-Head of the Blue Meanies
Message no. 3
From: Stephen Delear <shadow@***.com>
Subject: Re: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 00:46:21 -0500 (CDT)
On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Jeff Perrin wrote:

> Hairy Smurf wrote:
> >
> > At 15:17 6/17/96 +0200, you wrote:
> > >everybody's on vacation here? Or I'm unwired, now?
> > >
> > >Bye, P.
> > >Paolo Marcucci
> >
> > Don't know. Everyone still seems to be on the lists. Majordomo is responding
> > and sending messages. Guess everybody is asleep. ????????
>
> how about this for a discussion topic...
> Otaku (I haven't been able to get a copy of Virtual Realities 2.0 and it will
> be about a week or 2 before it arrives). What are they, how do they affect
> game balance, and how to convince them to jackout and bath once and awhile?


Ok here are the Otaku short and simple: Otaku don't need decks they do
need datajacks however. I'd send you the rules but then FASA would
probably jump all over me for copyright (besides the Matrix rules in VR
2.0 are so different from those in 1.0 to qualify as a completely
different system, for example the color rating of a node no longer has
any bearing on the number of successes you need to preform a system
operation). What I've been wondering though is do Otaku download data
directly into there brain and what effect dose a Medic complex form have
on them. I'd also think that becouse of the special nature of there
interface Black Ice damage would be handled like any other ice except for
filling up the physical instead of mental damage track (if not black IC
gets really nasty against Otaku with a body stats of 1 which is about
average for the group).

So dose any one want to see my in character explanation or the Otaku?

Stephen


>
> --
> Luc aka BobW
>
> EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME!
> BUT THE CORPSE STILL HAS THE FLOOR!!
> --Kevin Spacey as Lloyd in The Ref (1994)
>
Message no. 4
From: Jeff Perrin <jperrin@*********.net>
Subject: Re: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 06:38:10 -0400
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz wrote:
> I'd say that under the given rules, they skew game balance a little bit.
> I think that it can easily be remedied, though. I can offer my
> suggestions if you like.

what is your solution to the otaku being overpowered?

--
Luc aka BobW

EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME!
BUT THE CORPSE STILL HAS THE FLOOR!!
--Kevin Spacey as Lloyd in The Ref (1994)
Message no. 5
From: Jeff Perrin <jperrin@*********.net>
Subject: Re: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:18:58 -0400
Stephen Delear wrote:
> So dose any one want to see my in character explanation or the Otaku?

I am interested (as should be expected since I'm the one trying to start the
discussion on otaku :)).

--
Luc aka BobW

EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME!
BUT THE CORPSE STILL HAS THE FLOOR!!
--Kevin Spacey as Lloyd in The Ref (1994)
Message no. 6
From: "Dr. Bolthy von Schotz" <bolthy@**.com>
Subject: Re: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 03:52:37 -0500 (CDT)
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Stephen Delear wrote:

>
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Jeff Perrin wrote:
>
> > Hairy Smurf wrote:
> > >
> > > At 15:17 6/17/96 +0200, you wrote:
> > > >everybody's on vacation here? Or I'm unwired, now?
> > > >
> > > >Bye, P.
> > > >Paolo Marcucci
> > >
> > > Don't know. Everyone still seems to be on the lists. Majordomo is
responding
> > > and sending messages. Guess everybody is asleep. ????????
> >
> > how about this for a discussion topic...
> > Otaku (I haven't been able to get a copy of Virtual Realities 2.0 and it will
> > be about a week or 2 before it arrives). What are they, how do they affect
> > game balance, and how to convince them to jackout and bath once and awhile?
>
>
> Ok here are the Otaku short and simple: Otaku don't need decks they do
> need datajacks however. I'd send you the rules but then FASA would
> probably jump all over me for copyright (besides the Matrix rules in VR
> 2.0 are so different from those in 1.0 to qualify as a completely
> different system, for example the color rating of a node no longer has
> any bearing on the number of successes you need to preform a system
> operation). What I've been wondering though is do Otaku download data
> directly into there brain and what effect dose a Medic complex form have
> on them. I'd also think that becouse of the special nature of there

I've wondered the same thing about downloading. I jsut resolved it
myself by having my Otaku just put his little laptop or whatever in the
connection between himself and the matrix so he has something to download
to. However, one of my friends pointed out that the fact that an Otaku
has an I/O speed seems to imply that they can download to their brain...

As for Medic, I'd say it doesn't work. Too powerful, and wouldn't seem
to make sense to me...




|\ /\ |\ | |\
|/ \/ | \ |\ | \
|\ /\ | |/ \ |
|/ / \ | | \|

http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bolthy
"Remember: Heaven is Blue. Tomorrow, the world."
-Head of the Blue Meanies
Message no. 7
From: "Dr. Bolthy von Schotz" <bolthy@**.COM>
Subject: Re: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:41:33 -0500 (CDT)
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Jeff Perrin wrote:

> Dr. Bolthy von Schotz wrote:
> > I'd say that under the given rules, they skew game balance a little bit.
> > I think that it can easily be remedied, though. I can offer my
> > suggestions if you like.
>
> what is your solution to the otaku being overpowered?
>

I think the number one thing that they don't say explicitly in the rules,
which I think GMs should impliment is having Otaku actually roll to see
if they can make their complex form. In the rules they give, itseems
like all they have to do is pump karma into it. I don't recall what the
official programming rules are, but for Otaku I was thinking a target
number equal to twice the CF rating (kinda like with mages) would be
reasonable.

Otherwise, most of my ideas aren't really houserules, just ways to treat
the Otaku in the campaign:

It takes a couple of months minimum to program a compex form. That's
uninterupted work. I was able to have my otaku code stuff out pretty
easily, but then, I was GMing most of the time, and I was pretty lax
about that. Runners always had time between shadowruns to spend a couple
of months dinking around. However, this all assumes that Corp X doesn't
decide to come and visit them, or deckers raid one of their bank
accounts, etc. Remember, shadowrunners don't live in a void. Stuff happens.

One of the people in my group (we co-gm'ed... in theory at least) felt
that Otaku were too powerful, but he never put anything in his adventures
that would challenge a normal decker. I've never GM'ed a non-Otaku under
2.0, but in 1.0 I remember that the deckers were always able to get past
Matrix security. It took a little longer than an Otaku, but they had
enough of an edge to make it through almost anything.

This whole thing reminds me of the whole AD&D "psionicists are too
powerful" argument. It's always seemed to me that people would only play
psionicists because there would be no one who could stop them. As soon
as you modified your campaign setting to allow for them and balance them
out, they'd get all bent out of shape. Seems like the same thing with
Otaku. You need to adapt your campaign so that life isn't easy for
Otaku. I mean, I always wondered "why aren't there any other Otaku?" or
"why doesn't a megacorp have a semi-autonomous knowbot out hunting down
otaku, me in particular?", etc.

Also, Otaku have the major disadvantage of taking damage to their meat
body in either stun or physical form. That's no small thing. If they
hit just a high rating Attack IC, they're hosed. And if some corp goons
trace him back to his place, unplug him from his wall socket, he's even
more hosed because he's taken damage from just normal decking, and he
takes damage when you unplug him like that. You better hope your
chummers are guarding your body...


One last thing, is that you need to limit the skills an Otaku can get in
some way... I know I abused the skills rules in a major way. My 16 year
old otaku was a crack shot with a gun, an expert martial artist, an above
average street doc, and a competent rigger. AND no one in the group
thought he could be stopped in the Matrix.

Sorry if I'm rambling, but I just woke up.



|\ /\ |\ | |\
|/ \/ | \ |\ | \
|\ /\ | |/ \ |
|/ / \ | | \|

http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bolthy
"Remember: Heaven is Blue. Tomorrow, the world."
-Head of the Blue Meanies
Message no. 8
From: Droopy <droopy@**.net>
Subject: Re: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 21:25:23 -0400
>> operation). What I've been wondering though is do Otaku download data
>> directly into there brain and what effect dose a Medic complex form have
>> on them. I'd also think that becouse of the special nature of there
>
>I've wondered the same thing about downloading. I jsut resolved it
>myself by having my Otaku just put his little laptop or whatever in the
>connection between himself and the matrix so he has something to download
>to. However, one of my friends pointed out that the fact that an Otaku
>has an I/O speed seems to imply that they can download to their brain...

That or perhaps they transfer the data through themselves to a local storage
device. The I/O rating is just for transfers as well as calling up
programs. Otaku deck naked, but I'd think that they'd have to have some
sort of conventional storage system.


--Droopy
Message no. 9
From: Stephen Delear <shadow@***.com>
Subject: Re: Otaku (was Re: The list?)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 01:34:16 -0500 (CDT)
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Dr. Bolthy von Schotz wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Stephen Delear wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Jeff Perrin wrote:
> >
> > > Hairy Smurf wrote:
> > > >
> > > > At 15:17 6/17/96 +0200, you wrote:
> > > > >everybody's on vacation here? Or I'm unwired, now?
> > > > >
> > > > >Bye, P.
> > > > >Paolo Marcucci
> > > >
> > > > Don't know. Everyone still seems to be on the lists. Majordomo is
responding
> > > > and sending messages. Guess everybody is asleep. ????????
> > >
> > > how about this for a discussion topic...
> > > Otaku (I haven't been able to get a copy of Virtual Realities 2.0 and it
will
> > > be about a week or 2 before it arrives). What are they, how do they affect

> > > game balance, and how to convince them to jackout and bath once and awhile?
> >
> >
> > Ok here are the Otaku short and simple: Otaku don't need decks they do
> > need datajacks however. I'd send you the rules but then FASA would
> > probably jump all over me for copyright (besides the Matrix rules in VR
> > 2.0 are so different from those in 1.0 to qualify as a completely
> > different system, for example the color rating of a node no longer has
> > any bearing on the number of successes you need to preform a system
> > operation). What I've been wondering though is do Otaku download data
> > directly into there brain and what effect dose a Medic complex form have
> > on them. I'd also think that becouse of the special nature of there
>
> I've wondered the same thing about downloading. I jsut resolved it
> myself by having my Otaku just put his little laptop or whatever in the
> connection between himself and the matrix so he has something to download
> to. However, one of my friends pointed out that the fact that an Otaku
> has an I/O speed seems to imply that they can download to their brain...
>
> As for Medic, I'd say it doesn't work. Too powerful, and wouldn't seem
> to make sense to me...
>

Actually I would say that the Otaku only think they're taking drain which
translates into actually taking drain (meaning mental damage in this
case), the Medic program however would interupt the bio-feedback loop so
they no longer think they have the drain. Of course since black ice dose
stun damage by frying the brain it wouldn't work against no-lethal ice
becouse that is actuall and not imagined damage.

Stephen

>
>
>
> |\ /\ |\ | |\
> |/ \/ | \ |\ | \
> |\ /\ | |/ \ |
> |/ / \ | | \|
>
> http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bolthy
> "Remember: Heaven is Blue. Tomorrow, the world."
> -Head of the Blue Meanies
>
>

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