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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Tzeentch)
Subject: [OT] Balkanization
Date: Thu Apr 19 02:20:01 2001
> Well, I meant /today,/ but your point stands. :)

I'm not sure I follow. Are you seriously making the statement that the
various metahuman "homelands" are just as logical as say, human lands??

>Precisely. I'm thinking primarily of the behaviour of European countries
>like Czechoslovakia [now the Czech Republic and Slovakia] and everyone's
>favourites, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Moldova, Bosnia,
>Croatia, Slovenia, etc. And I'll grant that the Balkans are a...well, a
>"goat rodeo," to coin a phrase, but the rest of Europe has not - when
viewed
>the long way - had the most stable national borders in the world. And, as
>you say, once Balkanisation begins, it seldom ends; division leads to
>division.

Pointing to the the....well...Balkans as an example to support balkanization
is pretty funny considering the word was coined BECAUSE of that area. Now,
if you used the history of german fiefdoms that has more weight. But I think
you have to agree that in Shadowrun all the countries are broken up simply
because well...thats how it was done in cyberpunk fiction.


Kenneth
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."
*Seize the day, put no trust in tomorrow.*
- Horace, Odes
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (abortion_engine)
Subject: [OT] Balkanization
Date: Thu Apr 19 16:40:01 2001
From: "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net>
> > Well, I meant /today,/ but your point stands. :)
>
> I'm not sure I follow. Are you seriously making the statement that the
> various metahuman "homelands" are just as logical as say, human lands??

I don't think that the difference between political divisions and racial
divisions is so great as to make it unlikely for metahuman separatist groups
to be as likely as human ones. [What a sentance that is.]

> >Precisely. I'm thinking primarily of the behaviour of European countries
> >like Czechoslovakia [now the Czech Republic and Slovakia] and everyone's
> >favourites, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Moldova, Bosnia,
> >Croatia, Slovenia, etc. And I'll grant that the Balkans are a...well, a
> >"goat rodeo," to coin a phrase, but the rest of Europe has not - when
> viewed
> >the long way - had the most stable national borders in the world. And, as
> >you say, once Balkanisation begins, it seldom ends; division leads to
> >division.
>
> Pointing to the the....well...Balkans as an example to support
balkanization
> is pretty funny considering the word was coined BECAUSE of that area. Now,
> if you used the history of german fiefdoms that has more weight. But I
think
> you have to agree that in Shadowrun all the countries are broken up simply
> because well...thats how it was done in cyberpunk fiction.

Well, I use it because, when discussing balkanisation, /nothing/ carries
more weight that the Balkans themselves, since, as you say, the word was
coined because of that area. I don't see how an older, less appropriate
example would have "more weight."

I certainly agree that the internal divisions of SR's political history are
caused by its cyberpunk roots. However, I don't think it should necessarily
be left to that. After all, we all know that magic in Shadowrun exists
because someone wanted to cross AD&D with Cyberpunk, but we don't just write
off every argument regarding Shadowrun magic to that reason, neh?

Further Reading

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!