Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	[OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:47:43 +0100

Message no. 1 In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.970814144147.11201B-
100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>, "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
rambled on about New Seattle Sourcebook?
>On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Michael Broadwater wrote:
>
>->At 08:44 AM 8/14/97 -0800, Skye Comstock wrote:
>
>}}snip "heated discussion"{{
>
>->
>->Didn't say I had. But then, I didn't say me of my city were the center of
>->the universe, either.
>->
>
>Well My city is the Hub of the universe :) (see the Boston entry in
>Target UCAS)

Nope sorry, have to disagree with everyone on this. London is. It's
the centre of time on this planet. Without England, America wouldn't
exist in the form it is now (neither would Australia - but don't tell
them that). Without England the rest of the world might still be
civilised, erm... I mean uncivilised <g>

So, seeing as Greenwich Mean Time is used to determine time across the
planet, it is obvious that London is the centre of the known universe.
Also, the English pound is the strongest currency on the market against
which the performance of all other currencies are judged... :) And the
Bank of England (in London) is where the home of the UK pound exists.
Also, we have the most incredibly stupid government in the history of
the world, yet another proof that London is the centre of the known
universe.

Zaphod Beeblebrox once attended a party here, lots of excellent scifi is
based here, which Hollywood has attempted to destroy by basing them in
America, ie War of the Worlds... (and others) and of course, James Bond,
and one of the largest sound stages in the world, and fish and chips
(greasy or otherwise), and warm beer, and men who wear skirts, and sheep
who are terrified, and a world recognised/attended sailing event, and
the world land speed record, and strange newspapers, and... Call of
Cthulhu, and Hitchcock, and... <etc>

So there. plbtplbtplbtplbt

:)

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk

From:	Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:07:15 PDT

Message no. 2 Avenger wrote:

>Nope sorry, have to disagree with everyone on this. London is. It's
>the centre of time on this planet. Without England, America wouldn't
>exist in the form it is now (neither would Australia - but don't tell
>them that). Without England the rest of the world might still be
>civilised, erm... I mean uncivilised <g>
>
>

Hey, ever notice that the English never left a country, (to my horribly
fragmented and unbelievably incomplete knowledge) until they were kicked
out?

Just thought I'd ask...

Green Dog

===========================================================
An upturned tortise is the nineth most pathetic thing in
the entire multiverse.
An upturned tortise that knows what is going to happen next
is, well, at least up there at number four.
--Small Gods

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From:	Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:10:14 PDT

Message no. 3 Avenger wrote:

>Also, the English pound is the strongest currency on the market against
>which the performance of all other currencies are judged... :) And the
>Bank of England (in London) is where the home of the UK pound exists.
>Also, we have the most incredibly stupid government in the history of
>the world, yet another proof that London is the centre of the known
>universe.
>
>Zaphod Beeblebrox once attended a party here, lots of excellent scifi
is
>based here, which Hollywood has attempted to destroy by basing them in
>America, ie War of the Worlds... (and others) and of course, James
Bond,
>and one of the largest sound stages in the world, and fish and chips
>(greasy or otherwise), and warm beer, and men who wear skirts, and
sheep
>who are terrified, and a world recognised/attended sailing event, and
>the world land speed record, and strange newspapers, and... Call of
>Cthulhu, and Hitchcock, and... <etc>
>
>So there. plbtplbtplbtplbt
>
Don't Forget Games-Workshop Games...8)
(I just LOVE warhammer 40K)
Green Dog

===========================================================
An upturned tortise is the nineth most pathetic thing in
the entire multiverse.
An upturned tortise that knows what is going to happen next
is, well, at least up there at number four.
--Small Gods

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From:	MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:47:12 -0400

Message no. 4 Avenger once dared to write,

<snipping the importance of England)
>Call of Cthulhu, and Hitchcock, and... <etc>
>
>So there. plbtplbtplbtplbt

Umm, wouldn't that be New England then? IIRC most of the stories are
set around fictional small Massachusetts towns.

- MC23, campaigner for Cthulhu for President -

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:57:51 +0100

Message no. 5 |Avenger wrote:
|
|>Nope sorry, have to disagree with everyone on this. London is. It's
|>the centre of time on this planet. Without England, America wouldn't
|>exist in the form it is now (neither would Australia - but don't tell
|>them that). Without England the rest of the world might still be
|>civilised, erm... I mean uncivilised <g>
|>
|>
|
|Hey, ever notice that the English never left a country, (to my horribly
|fragmented and unbelievably incomplete knowledge) until they were kicked
|out?
|
|Just thought I'd ask...

Hmmmmm....
Lets think on this for a moment....

India...... Where we kicked out, or did we leave voluntarily....
I think we were pushed, but not "kicked out".
[I'm not too good on history]

Australia.. I don't remember a war of independence down there...
Were we kicked out, or did we give them independece?

There are too many African countries to name....

Anyone know better? Or is the USA the only country we WERE seriously kicked
out of?

(Lets not forget that America constantly gets kicked out of places)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:58:28 +0100

Message no. 6 | Don't Forget Games-Workshop Games...8)
|(I just LOVE warhammer 40K)

Now that was below the belt!

Ref! REF!!!

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:08:09 -0400

Message no. 7 Spike once dared to write,

>(Lets not forget that America constantly gets kicked out of places)

Yeah, France.

Like that upsets me. Well, we ain't giving them their statue back
anyway so who cares. B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"Boy, I'm in a bad mood today! Everyone had better steer clear of me! I
hate EVERYBODY! As far as I'm concerned, everyone on the planet can just
drop dead. People are scum.
.....
WELL-L-L? DOESN'T ANYONE WANT TO CHEER ME UP?!?"
-Calvin, Calvin and Hobbes
I am MC23

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:14:15 +0100

Message no. 8 |<snipping the importance of England)
|>Call of Cthulhu, and Hitchcock, and... <etc>
|>
|>So there. plbtplbtplbtplbt
|
| Umm, wouldn't that be New England then? IIRC most of the stories are
|set around fictional small Massachusetts towns.

OK, so he got ONE thing wrong....

Not bad out of the entire list....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:13:04 -0500

Message no. 9 At 12:57 PM 8/15/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
#|Avenger wrote:
#|Hey, ever notice that the English never left a country, (to my horribly
#|fragmented and unbelievably incomplete knowledge) until they were kicked
#|out?
#Australia.. I don't remember a war of independence down there...
# Were we kicked out, or did we give them independece?
As far as I am aware, Australia is still part of the Commonwealth,
and is scheduled to become a republic in 2000.
This may have changed, the last I heard was back in '94.
Officially, the Governor General still has more power than the Aus. Govt.,
as s/he is the Queen's representative.

#Anyone know better? Or is the USA the only country we WERE seriously kicked
#out of?

I think the US was the MOST obvious country they were kicked from.
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:14:02 -0500

Message no. 10 At 08:08 AM 8/15/97 -0400, MC23 wrote:
#Spike once dared to write,
#
#>(Lets not forget that America constantly gets kicked out of places)
#
# Yeah, France.
#
# Like that upsets me. Well, we ain't giving them their statue back
#anyway so who cares. B>]#

Don't forget Vietnam
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:00:44 -0600

Message no. 11 Jaymz wrote:
|
| At 08:08 AM 8/15/97 -0400, MC23 wrote:
| #Spike once dared to write,
| #
| #>(Lets not forget that America constantly gets kicked out of places)
| #
| # Yeah, France.
| #
| # Like that upsets me. Well, we ain't giving them their statue back
| #anyway so who cares. B>]#
|
| Don't forget Vietnam

We kicked ourselves out of Vietnam, thank you very much. And this is
a comment on the inability of the politicians in charge at the time,
not those who served in that war.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."

From:	"Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:54:19 -0400

Message no. 12 On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Avenger wrote:

->In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.970814144147.11201B-
->100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>, "Steven A. Collins"
<scollins@**.UML.EDU>
->rambled on about New Seattle Sourcebook?
->>On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Michael Broadwater wrote:
->>
->>->At 08:44 AM 8/14/97 -0800, Skye Comstock wrote:
->>
->>}}snip "heated discussion"{{
->>
->>->
->>->Didn't say I had. But then, I didn't say me of my city were the center of
->>->the universe, either.
->>->
->>
->>Well My city is the Hub of the universe :) (see the Boston entry in
->>Target UCAS)
->
->America, ie War of the Worlds... (and others) and of course, James Bond,
->and one of the largest sound stages in the world, and fish and chips
->(greasy or otherwise), and warm beer, and men who wear skirts, and sheep
->who are terrified, and a world recognised/attended sailing event, and
->the world land speed record, and strange newspapers, and... Call of
->Cthulhu, and Hitchcock, and... <etc>
->
->So there. plbtplbtplbtplbt
Haaaaah !!!! got ya on this one. The town of Arkham that Lovecraft
wrote about was based on Salem Massachusetts:). CoC is based here in
Boston or at least it should be :) although I'm not terribly familiar
with the game. I've only played a few times and never owned the book
:).

From:	George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:27:40 -0400

Message no. 13 In a message dated 97-08-15 08:00:06 EDT, you write:

> Anyone know better? Or is the USA the only country we WERE seriously kicked
> out of?

Spike, yer fergeting Vietnam(The British had a brief stint there) and most
recently, Hong Kong(Say what you like, you were booted). To my mind, once the
Brits turned conquistador way back when, they've been kicked out more often
than not.

Wolfstar

From:	"Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:36:58 -0400

Message no. 14 On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Spike wrote:

->|Avenger wrote:
->|
->|>Nope sorry, have to disagree with everyone on this. London is. It's
->|>the centre of time on this planet. Without England, America wouldn't
->|>exist in the form it is now (neither would Australia - but don't tell
->|>them that). Without England the rest of the world might still be
->|>civilised, erm... I mean uncivilised <g>
->|>
->|>
->|
->|Hey, ever notice that the English never left a country, (to my horribly
->|fragmented and unbelievably incomplete knowledge) until they were kicked
->|out?
->|
->|Just thought I'd ask...
->
->Hmmmmm....
->Lets think on this for a moment....
->
->India...... Where we kicked out, or did we leave voluntarily....
-> I think we were pushed, but not "kicked out".
-> [I'm not too good on history]
->
->Australia.. I don't remember a war of independence down there...
-> Were we kicked out, or did we give them independece?
->
->There are too many African countries to name....
->
->Anyone know better? Or is the USA the only country we WERE seriously kicked
->out of?
->
->(Lets not forget that America constantly gets kicked out of places)

Well That depends on how far back in history you want to go and what
you mean by kicked out. You were kicked out of Scotland a few times.
You were kicked out of France. Obviously you were kicked out of the
US. Off hand I would call what happened in India getting kicked out.
You just didn't seem to fight it that hard. You mignt say the Germans
kicked you out of some of your North African Colonies during World War
2 but not really since they were not really natives or welcomed by
neighbors. I'm not too sure about your departure from China but you
may have been kicked out of there. But Pretty much everything else you
got tired of ruling and just gave up. Places such as Canada, South
Africa, Australia (which I believe is still technicaly part of
England) and Palastine/Israel.

From:	"Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:15:38 -0400

Message no. 15 On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Jaymz wrote:

->At 08:08 AM 8/15/97 -0400, MC23 wrote:
->#Spike once dared to write,
->#
->#>(Lets not forget that America constantly gets kicked out of places)
->#
-># Yeah, France.
->#
-># Like that upsets me. Well, we ain't giving them their statue back
->#anyway so who cares. B>]#
->
->
->Don't forget Vietnam

UMMMMM sorry to contradict you here but the US was NOT kicked out of
Vietnam. I'm not saying that we didn't loose the war, we did. We lost
a Political War. The North Vietnameese will to fight outstripped ours
and we left. We abandoned our allies and even refused to give them the
supplies they were promised for when two years later the North
Invaded. That's right South Vietnam didn't fall to the VC it fell to a
full scale Military Invasion. I seem to recall numbers like 40000
trucks and 8000 tanks but i'm not sure of these figures. Even at that
had we provided them with the supplies we promised it was likely they
could have fought off the attack. The Military War in fact was pretty
much won when we left. The VC were all but Eliminated and most of the
NVA regulars in the South had been killed. So we declared victory and
left.

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 22:27:23 +0100

Message no. 16 Jaymz said on 9:14/15 Aug 97...

> Don't forget Vietnam

Since you're Australian, perhaps I shouldn't need to point out that not
only the Americans got kicked out of there...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Our foreign policy is not a political issue."
--Harry S. Truman
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Fri, 15 Aug 1997 22:27:23 +0100

Message no. 17 Steven A. Collins said on 15:15/15 Aug 97...

> UMMMMM sorry to contradict you here but the US was NOT kicked out of
> Vietnam. I'm not saying that we didn't loose the war, we did. We lost
> a Political War.

In my book that counts as being kicked out too, except the Nixon
administration tried to save face by "Vietnamization" of the war.

> The North Vietnameese will to fight outstripped ours and we left. We
> abandoned our allies and even refused to give them the supplies they
> were promised for when two years later the North Invaded. That's right
> South Vietnam didn't fall to the VC it fell to a full scale Military
> Invasion.

By the 1970s, the VC (better: the NLF, as only the South Vietnamese
government and its allies called it the VC) _was_ North Vietnamese, even
though it originally started as a movement to make South Vietnam a
communist country, separate from North Vietnam. Its bad luck was that its
only way of doing this was to turn to the North for support.

> I seem to recall numbers like 40000 trucks and 8000 tanks but i'm not
> sure of these figures. Even at that had we provided them with the
> supplies we promised it was likely they could have fought off the
> attack.

The 1972 invasion got stopped because of the American Linebacker II bomber
offensive, which was one of the few real attempts at a full-scale bombing
campaign during the whole war, without major political restrictions; in
'75, the US talked about sending B-52s in aid of South Vietnam again, but
they never came. Whether such strikes could have _really_ turned the war
is debatable, but they could have seriously slowed down the NVA offensive.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Our foreign policy is not a political issue."
--Harry S. Truman
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	"MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:45:01 +1000

Message no. 18 > > Anyone know better? Or is the USA the only country we WERE seriously kicked
> > out of?
>
> Spike, yer fergeting Vietnam(The British had a brief stint there) and most
> recently, Hong Kong(Say what you like, you were booted). To my mind, once the
> Brits turned conquistador way back when, they've been kicked out more often
> than not.
>

Ummm, I believe that Vietman was a FRENCH colony before the Amercians
decided to go and have a war there.

Marty

From:	"MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:47:46 +1000

Message no. 19 > > Don't forget Vietnam
>
> Since you're Australian, perhaps I shouldn't need to point out that not
> only the Americans got kicked out of there...
>

Number of Servicemen??
Casualty Rate?

I could go on for hours about how good our SAS were supposed to have been
in Vietnam, but that'd just start another 'Mine is bigger than yours' thread.

Hell, we served in the Gulf (Oil) War, too..... The only difference is
that America won that one.

Marty

From:	Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:13:03 +0100

Message no. 20 In article <199708150607.XAA25575@***.hotmail.com>, Gabriel Sims
<grendel_22@*******.COM> rambled on endlessly about [OT] Centre of the
Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
>Avenger wrote:
>
>>Nope sorry, have to disagree with everyone on this. London is. It's
>>the centre of time on this planet. Without England, America wouldn't
>>exist in the form it is now (neither would Australia - but don't tell
>>them that). Without England the rest of the world might still be
>>civilised, erm... I mean uncivilised <g>
>>
>>
>
>Hey, ever notice that the English never left a country, (to my horribly
>fragmented and unbelievably incomplete knowledge) until they were kicked
>out?
>
>Just thought I'd ask...

Not entirely true, the Brits did leave several countries before they
were officially ejected, which is why we're still friendly with them.
The Americans of course, based upon a strong criminal element, were just
too much for the civilised Brit tea drinkers back then, I mean fancy
shoving a whole load into Boaston hardour.. tut tut. <g>

As for India, well, that was more a misunderstanding <g>

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk

From:	Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:16:13 +0100

Message no. 21 In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.970815135040.20813A-
100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>, "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
rambled on endlessly about [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New
Seattle Sourcebook?
<snippy>
>->the world land speed record, and strange newspapers, and... Call of
>->Cthulhu, and Hitchcock, and... <etc>
>->
>->So there. plbtplbtplbtplbt
> Haaaaah !!!! got ya on this one. The town of Arkham that Lovecraft
>wrote about was based on Salem Massachusetts:). CoC is based here in
>Boston or at least it should be :) although I'm not terribly familiar
>with the game. I've only played a few times and never owned the book
>:).

OK, so I got one thing wrong - sue me <g> ;-P

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk

From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 02:55:21 +0100

Message no. 22 In message <Pine.OSF.3.96.970815142818.20813C-
100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>, "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
>Well That depends on how far back in history you want to go and what
>you mean by kicked out. You were kicked out of Scotland a few times.

Do the Romans even count? :) Scotland's part of the United Kingdom
anyway...

>You were kicked out of France.

France took over us, we invaded France, we handed back everything except
the best wine regions, France retook those, we fought another hundred
years' war...

When was the last time French troops landed in Britain except by
accident? Compare to British troops fighting to liberate France.

Bad comparison...

>Obviously you were kicked out of the
>US.

With heavy French help, while we were busy fighting Bonaparte and
controlling a major empire :)

> Off hand I would call what happened in India getting kicked out.
>You just didn't seem to fight it that hard.

Why fight it? India wanted independence. Ditto Israel, ditto Malaya, in
fact most former British colonies. They wanted to be cut loose, they got
independence.

>But Pretty much everything else you
>got tired of ruling and just gave up. Places such as Canada, South
>Africa, Australia (which I believe is still technicaly part of
>England) and Palastine/Israel.

Not so much "got tired of ruling" as "released from colonial
servitude"
or whatever the modern phrase is.

Look at it this way; India, Australia, Pakistan and New Zealand are all
former colonies at ours. What's the worst antipathy we get? Losing
regularly at rugby and/or cricket to our ex-colonies. Now, does the US
enjoy any sporting links with - say - the Phillipines?

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:40:10 -0400

Message no. 23 George Metz once dared to write,

>In a message dated 97-08-15 08:00:06 EDT, you write:
>
>> Anyone know better? Or is the USA the only country we WERE seriously kicked
>> out of?
>
> Spike, yer fergeting Vietnam(The British had a brief stint there) and most
>recently, Hong Kong(Say what you like, you were booted). To my mind, once the
>Brits turned conquistador way back when, they've been kicked out more often
>than not.
>
> Wolfstar

Heh, heh. Britian can celebrate two lost colonies in the same week now,
America and Hong Kong. B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"Say what you mean, and say it mean!"
-Scraping Foetus off the Wheel, Ramrod

I am MC23

From:	Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:25:05 +1000

Message no. 24 > #|Hey, ever notice that the English never left a country, (to my horribly
> #|fragmented and unbelievably incomplete knowledge) until they were kicked
> #|out?
> #Australia.. I don't remember a war of independence down there...
> # Were we kicked out, or did we give them independece?

> As far as I am aware, Australia is still part of the Commonwealth,
> and is scheduled to become a republic in 2000.
> This may have changed, the last I heard was back in '94.

Heh. Not now we have a Coalition government. :(

(I think you're better off in the US than here right now. The Coalition
[can you believe we've got JOHN HOWARD for PM?] seems to be taking a
leaf out of Margaret Thatcher's book. :( )

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------

From:	George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 04:32:30 -0400

Message no. 25 In a message dated 97-08-15 22:10:09 EDT, you write:

> >Obviously you were kicked out of the
> >US.
>
> With heavy French help, while we were busy fighting Bonaparte and
> controlling a major empire :)

With the motto "History is written by the winners" firmly in my mind, I must
say this. You got kicked out by us with minor amounts of French help - and
that to just offset the Germans you brought in, if that much - and guerilla
warfare, which thoroughly confused the British army.

Wolfstar
"Where Paul Revere rode through the streets shouting, ' The British are--'"
"Weenies! At Fenway Park!"
--Television Ad for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Tourism Department (I'm
not kidding.)

From:	"Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:47:11 -0400

Message no. 26 On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Avenger wrote:

->In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.970815135040.20813A-
->> Haaaaah !!!! got ya on this one. The town of Arkham that Lovecraft
->>wrote about was based on Salem Massachusetts:). CoC is based here in
->>Boston or at least it should be :) although I'm not terribly familiar
->>with the game. I've only played a few times and never owned the book
->>:).
->
->OK, so I got one thing wrong - sue me <g> ;-P

You might want to think twice before you say that :). I am an American
after all, I might just take you seriously :).

what was the name of that Lawyer again :)

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:05:07 -0500

Message no. 27 At 02:27 PM 8/15/97 -0400, George Metz wrote:
#In a message dated 97-08-15 08:00:06 EDT, you write:
#
#> Anyone know better? Or is the USA the only country we WERE seriously kicked
#> out of?
#
# Spike, yer fergeting Vietnam(The British had a brief stint there) and most
#recently, Hong Kong(Say what you like, you were booted). To my mind, once the
#Brits turned conquistador way back when, they've been kicked out more often
#than not.

So you consider every time you have to move to a new residence because your
lease expires being booted?

--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:08:33 -0500

Message no. 28 At 03:15 PM 8/15/97 -0400, Steven A. Collins wrote:
#On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Jaymz wrote:
#
#->Don't forget Vietnam
#
#UMMMMM sorry to contradict you here but the US was NOT kicked out of
#Vietnam. I'm not saying that we didn't loose the war, we did.

I'm sorry, but losing a war to me means being kicked out
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:14:02 -0500

Message no. 29 At 10:27 PM 8/15/97 +0100, Gurth wrote:
#Jaymz said on 9:14/15 Aug 97...
#
#> Don't forget Vietnam
#
#Since you're Australian, perhaps I shouldn't need to point out that not
#only the Americans got kicked out of there...

Oh, I know, there were quite a few nations involved, including "obersvers"
from Australia.
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:33:20 -0500

Message no. 30 At 02:55 AM 8/16/97 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:
#Look at it this way; India, Australia, Pakistan and New Zealand are all
#former colonies at ours. What's the worst antipathy we get? Losing
#regularly at rugby and/or cricket to our ex-colonies. Now, does the US
#enjoy any sporting links with - say - the Phillipines?

and being called a Pom a lot
;)
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:42:17 -0500

Message no. 31 At 06:25 PM 8/16/97 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote:
#> #|Hey, ever notice that the English never left a country, (to my horribly
#> #|fragmented and unbelievably incomplete knowledge) until they were kicked
#> #|out?
#> #Australia.. I don't remember a war of independence down there...
#> # Were we kicked out, or did we give them independece?
#
#> As far as I am aware, Australia is still part of the Commonwealth,
#> and is scheduled to become a republic in 2000.
#> This may have changed, the last I heard was back in '94.
#
#Heh. Not now we have a Coalition government. :(
#
#(I think you're better off in the US than here right now. The Coalition
#[can you believe we've got JOHN HOWARD for PM?] seems to be taking a
#leaf out of Margaret Thatcher's book. :( )

I know, Short and Dumb as PM, how the hell did THAT happen?
Who voted for that shit?
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:29:24 +0100

Message no. 32 | Spike, yer fergeting Vietnam(The British had a brief stint there) and most
|recently, Hong Kong(Say what you like, you were booted). To my mind, once the
|Brits turned conquistador way back when, they've been kicked out more often
|than not.

Nahh, Hong Kong can't be called "kicked out", cos we knew the lease was
running out 100 years ago!

It's a bit like the Landlord telling you [100 years in advance] that when the
lease expires on your flat, you'll have to leave....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:42:53 +0100

Message no. 33 |Hell, we served in the Gulf (Oil) War, too..... The only difference is
|that America won that one.

No they didn't.
The ALLIES [The UN] won that one.
NOT the americans.

(I think more Brits died there from American "friendly fire" then actual
iraqi weapons...)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:01:11 -0500

Message no. 34 At 06:42 PM 8/16/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
#|Hell, we served in the Gulf (Oil) War, too..... The only difference is
#|that America won that one.
#
#No they didn't.
#The ALLIES [The UN] won that one.
#NOT the americans.
#
#(I think more Brits died there from American "friendly fire" then actual
#iraqi weapons...)

You didn't know, the US is covertly trying to kill off the british
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Josh Higham <jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 14:14:03 -0400

Message no. 35 On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Spike wrote:

> | Spike, yer fergeting Vietnam(The British had a brief stint there) and most
> |recently, Hong Kong(Say what you like, you were booted). To my mind, once the
> |Brits turned conquistador way back when, they've been kicked out more often
> |than not.
>
> Nahh, Hong Kong can't be called "kicked out", cos we knew the lease was
> running out 100 years ago!
>
> It's a bit like the Landlord telling you [100 years in advance] that when the
> lease expires on your flat, you'll have to leave....

Ok, since nobody else is going to do it, I'll do it:

SHUT UP!!!!! You have all (because this is a reply to everyone on the
"which country has the bigger penis" issue) just proven that yes, it can
and will happen everywhere. I could even put up with a little bit of
history, but this is just a big "You got kicked out of there" and "But
no, we left there willingly" and is not at all constructive. Take it
elsewhere, or start debating about who's gonna get kicked out of where in
2057.

Thanks.

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-*
Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
11904 Carlton Rd. 410A http://129.22.241.146/~jhigham/
Cleveland OH 44106 Anon ftp available at the same site

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:20:09 +0100

Message no. 36 |SHUT UP!!!!! You have all (because this is a reply to everyone on the
|"which country has the bigger penis" issue) just proven that yes, it can
|and will happen everywhere. I could even put up with a little bit of
|history, but this is just a big "You got kicked out of there" and "But
|no, we left there willingly" and is not at all constructive. Take it
|elsewhere, or start debating about who's gonna get kicked out of where in
|2057.

My,my,my...

What a temper we have....

FYI, topics go rambling of in unpredictable directions all the time!
Just because it's not STRICTLY shadowrun, doesn't mean some poeple on the
list aren't INTERESTED in it.

And what's so wrong with clearing up historical inaccuracies?

All I can say is, kindly remove the broom handle from your rectum.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 14:34:59 -0400

Message no. 37 In a message dated 97-08-16 08:02:19 EDT, you write:

> > Spike, yer fergeting Vietnam(The British had a brief stint there) and
most
> > recently, Hong Kong(Say what you like, you were booted). To my mind,
once > > the Brits turned conquistador way back when, they've been kicked
out more
> > often than not.
> >
>
> Ummm, I believe that Vietman was a FRENCH colony before the Amercians
> decided to go and have a war there.

It was, but the British had a similar situation there before we Americans
showed up.

Wolfstar

From:	Josh Higham <jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 14:38:58 -0400

Message no. 38 On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Spike wrote:

> |SHUT UP!!!!! You have all (because this is a reply to everyone on the
> |"which country has the bigger penis" issue) just proven that yes, it can
> |and will happen everywhere. I could even put up with a little bit of
> |history, but this is just a big "You got kicked out of there" and
"But
> |no, we left there willingly" and is not at all constructive. Take it
> |elsewhere, or start debating about who's gonna get kicked out of where in
> |2057.
>
> My,my,my...
>
> What a temper we have....

Sometimes. Yes.
>
> FYI, topics go rambling of in unpredictable directions all the time!
> Just because it's not STRICTLY shadowrun, doesn't mean some poeple on the
> list aren't INTERESTED in it.

Right, and I have no problem with the fact that a post is OT.
>
> And what's so wrong with clearing up historical inaccuracies?

Nothing. However, the majority of the posts that I have seen have had
little to do with clearing up historical inaccuracies, and more to do
with "well we didn't get kicked out of here" or "well, you guys got
kicked out of there" or whatever. Anyway, if people don't mind then I'll
ignore it, but it had, in my opinion, not produced anything worthwhile,
and that I why I would rather that it were moved to a privated
conversation.

> >
All I can say is, kindly remove the broom handle from your rectum. > --

Sorry, it's wedged pretty tightly.

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-*
Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
11904 Carlton Rd. 410A http://129.22.241.146/~jhigham/
Cleveland OH 44106 Anon ftp available at the same site

From:	George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 15:05:57 -0400

Message no. 39 In a message dated 97-08-16 12:15:20 EDT, you write:

> #recently, Hong Kong(Say what you like, you were booted). To my mind, once
the
> #Brits turned conquistador way back when, they've been kicked out more
often
> #than not.
>
> So you consider every time you have to move to a new residence because
your
> lease expires being booted?

In a way, yes. We've been leasing for about 10 years now, and every few
years we get booted. Besides, the change in the political climate alone is
grounds for considering it a boot.

Wolfstar

From:	George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 15:41:03 -0400

Message no. 40 In a message dated 97-08-16 14:09:06 EDT, you write:

> #No they didn't.
> #The ALLIES [The UN] won that one.
> #NOT the americans.

Actually, considering there was more American troops and equipment than
anything else over there....

> #(I think more Brits died there from American "friendly fire" then actual
> #iraqi weapons...)
>
> You didn't know, the US is covertly trying to kill off the british

Hardly. Just the ones who talk funny. =)

Wolfstar
"The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly
fire."
"Friendly fire, isn't."

From:	"MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:29:15 +1000

Message no. 41 > #> As far as I am aware, Australia is still part of the Commonwealth,
> #> and is scheduled to become a republic in 2000.
> #> This may have changed, the last I heard was back in '94.
> #
> #Heh. Not now we have a Coalition government. :(
> #
> #(I think you're better off in the US than here right now. The Coalition
> #[can you believe we've got JOHN HOWARD for PM?] seems to be taking a
> #leaf out of Margaret Thatcher's book. :( )
>
> I know, Short and Dumb as PM, how the hell did THAT happen?
> Who voted for that shit?

Everybody. Including friends of mine who have been unemployed since they
left highschool... They didn't like Keatings attitude, so they voted
themselves into poverty.

Prehaps I should draw some parallel to SR, just to bring it back On
Topic....

(Nah it's too difficult)

Marty

From:	"MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:30:15 +1000

Message no. 42 > No they didn't.
> The ALLIES [The UN] won that one.
> NOT the americans.
>
> (I think more Brits died there from American "friendly fire" then actual
> iraqi weapons...)

Hell, more _Amercians_ died by American FF than by enemy weapons. At
least they weren't discriminatory. *grin*

Marty

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 20:17:02 -0500

Message no. 43 At 09:29 AM 8/17/97 +1000, MARTIN E. GOTTHARD wrote:
#> #> As far as I am aware, Australia is still part of the Commonwealth,
#> #> and is scheduled to become a republic in 2000.
#> #> This may have changed, the last I heard was back in '94.
#> #
#> #Heh. Not now we have a Coalition government. :(
#> #
#> #(I think you're better off in the US than here right now. The Coalition
#> #[can you believe we've got JOHN HOWARD for PM?] seems to be taking a
#> #leaf out of Margaret Thatcher's book. :( )
#>
#> I know, Short and Dumb as PM, how the hell did THAT happen?
#> Who voted for that shit?
#
#Everybody. Including friends of mine who have been unemployed since they
#left highschool... They didn't like Keatings attitude, so they voted
#themselves into poverty.
I know in '93 unemployment was around 10%, what is it now?

#Prehaps I should draw some parallel to SR, just to bring it back On
#Topic....

Man, just imagine if Paul Keating was an IE
;)

--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:13:47 +0100

Message no. 44 Jaymz said on 11:14/16 Aug 97...

> Oh, I know, there were quite a few nations involved, including "obersvers"
> from Australia.

You can do quite some observing with two infantry battalions and two
squadrons of AFVs, IMHO... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Our foreign policy is not a political issue."
--Harry S. Truman
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:09:39 -0400

Message no. 45 In a message dated 97-08-16 21:13:28 EDT, you write:

> SHUT UP!!!!! You have all (because this is a reply to everyone on the
> "which country has the bigger penis" issue) just proven that yes, it can
> and will happen everywhere. I could even put up with a little bit of
> history, but this is just a big "You got kicked out of there" and
"But
> no, we left there willingly" and is not at all constructive. Take it
> elsewhere, or start debating about who's gonna get kicked out of where in
> 2057.

I'm trying to keep this a wee bit civil, but it's difficult. If the thread
REALLY bothers you that much, ignore it. It's clearly marked off-topic, so
you can delete without reading if you'd like.

In other words, BITE ME.

Wolfstar

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:10:02 +0100

Message no. 46 |> (I think more Brits died there from American "friendly fire" then actual
|> iraqi weapons...)
|
|Hell, more _Amercians_ died by American FF than by enemy weapons. At
|least they weren't discriminatory. *grin*

Nope.
Just utterly incompitent...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:28:05 -0400

Message no. 47 > Lets think on this for a moment....
>
> India...... Where we kicked out, or did we leave voluntarily....
> I think we were pushed, but not "kicked out".
> [I'm not too good on history]
>
> Australia.. I don't remember a war of independence down there...
> Were we kicked out, or did we give them independece?
>
> There are too many African countries to name....
>
> Anyone know better? Or is the USA the only country we WERE seriously
kicked
> out of?
>

Canada. England left peacefully when we were old enough to take care of
things ourselves. Although we officially haven't gotten rid of the queen
as figure head of the nation so I guess you can say we still have your
influence (not really but the govenor general is still picked by the queen
and he still has some powers here). Then again our two countries have been
very close... Canadian and UK troops fought side by side in the worldwars
(primarily to avoid fighting with US troops:that's a truth, not a bias).

From:	Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:36:38 -0400

Message no. 48 >. But Pretty much everything else you
> got tired of ruling and just gave up. Places such as Canada, South
> Africa, Australia (which I believe is still technicaly part of
> England) and Palastine/Israel.

Canada is in the exact same position as Australia. Except that they're
planning on getting rid of the queen as their figurehead... we just ignore
her.

From:	Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:35:27 +0100

Message no. 49 In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.970816102907.24250A-
100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>, "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
rambled on about [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle
Sourcebook?
>->
>->OK, so I got one thing wrong - sue me <g> ;-P
>
>You might want to think twice before you say that :). I am an American
>after all, I might just take you seriously :).
>
>what was the name of that Lawyer again :)

Yeah, but I live in the UK, and not even the lawyers in this country
understand the law, so an American hasn't got a hope in hell :)

So you can try <g> but expect it to take at least 40 years while the
solicitors find the relevant section in one of the millions of bylaws
and additions that are present in our legal system, and at least another
decade before the court reaches a decision, then another 20 years or so
for appeal, then of course theirs the European Court of Human Rights who
take great pleasure in overturning things just because they can. ;-P

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk

From:	Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Centre of the Universe - was re:New Seattle Sourcebook?
Date:	Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:59:25 -0500

Message no. 50 At 06:42 PM 8/16/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>|Hell, we served in the Gulf (Oil) War, too..... The only difference is
>|that America won that one.
>
>No they didn't.
>The ALLIES [The UN] won that one.
>NOT the americans.

The US is the UN. Without the US, the UN doesn't have a spine. Luckily,
we let it borrow ours every once in a while.

Rasputin-the-no-fancy-middle-name-in-dashes-right-now-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Message no. 51 at 02:10 PM 8/17/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>|> (I think more Brits died there from American "friendly fire" then
actual
>|> iraqi weapons...)
>|
>|Hell, more _Amercians_ died by American FF than by enemy weapons. At
>|least they weren't discriminatory. *grin*
>
>Nope.
>Just utterly incompitent...

Yeah, that's it. America just doesn't have any good soldiers. We suck. I
notice all you ever hear about is American friendly fire casualties.
Probably because we don't suppress the media, and let that information out.
British soldiers are great! They can do no wrong! Who cares if they
can't win a fight without the US's help!

Opps, sorry. Falkland Islands. Almost forgot about _that_. We (the US)
may fight over a nickle a gallon for gas, but we've never really been as
hard up on sheep as the UK has.

Rasputin-the-no-fancy-middle-name-in-dashes-right-now-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Message no. 52 In a message dated 97-08-20 10:04:08 EDT, you write:

<< Yeah, that's it. America just doesn't have any good soldiers. We suck.
I
notice all you ever hear about is American friendly fire casualties.
Probably because we don't suppress the media, and let that information out.
British soldiers are great! They can do no wrong! Who cares if they
can't win a fight without the US's help! >>

Guys, lets not go there.

-Bandit

Message no. 53 In message <3.0.32.19970820085924.009a9780@********>, Michael Broadwater
<mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM> writes
>The US is the UN. Without the US, the UN doesn't have a spine. Luckily,
>we let it borrow ours every once in a while.

Hence the UN success at stabilising Cambodia... oh, no Americans there,
so it didn't happen. (Think it's bad now? Should have seen it five years
ago)

Or four years of peacekeeping in Bosnia. "No, we can't send US soldiers
into a peacekeeping mission, they might get hurt..."

How about Somalia? "Feeding starving people? Who cares about that? Let's
go arrest some local warlord and shoot lots of civilians!"

And that's only this decade.

Remember, if there isn't a US flag flying then the American news
networks don't cover it, and if it wasn't reported in Milwaukee then it
never happened.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 54 In message <3.0.32.19970820090403.009cc8f0@********>, Michael Broadwater
<mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM> writes
>Yeah, that's it. America just doesn't have any good soldiers. We suck.

Sad to say that's true, unless the 101st Airborne is a sad exception to
the rest of the US military.

>I
>notice all you ever hear about is American friendly fire casualties.
>Probably because we don't suppress the media, and let that information out.

Also because they're so alarmingly frequent.

The fact remains: casualties from US fire proved to be the biggest risk
for Coalition forces. Sort of hard to hide, even if you wanted to.

> British soldiers are great! They can do no wrong!

Well, they manage to confine their enthusiasm to killing the enemy,
rather than each other or allied forces. We also tend to fight less
often, with greater success.

>Who cares if they
>can't win a fight without the US's help!

See below.

>Opps, sorry. Falkland Islands. Almost forgot about _that_. We (the US)
>may fight over a nickle a gallon for gas, but we've never really been as
>hard up on sheep as the UK has.

No: you just declared war on some Iranian students, then retreated
before even getting to Tehran let alone firing a shot (Eagle Claw, 1979)

Then you launched an all-out invasion of a Carribean island, managing
again to lose more men to accidents than to the "hordes of Cuban
advisors" that were the justification for the action (Grenada, 1983).

Also 1983, the US decides to intervene in the Lebanon. In a tense and
volatile situation, the US decides not to issue the Embassy guards live
ammunition, leaving them standing helplessly by as nearly 300 Marines
die in a single van-bombing. (Someone who tried a similar attack on the
British Embassy suffered a severe case of 9mm to the forehead and lost
interest...) The US retaliates by bombing the surrounding hills (losing
several aircraft for no gain), and then sends a forty-year-old
battleship to shell the same hills: killing farmers and chewing up
landscape for no discernible result.

The US then launched a mass attack on Libya in 1986. While the carrier
groups in the Gulf of Sirte acquitted themselves well, the USAF F-111s
managed to lose two aircraft in the course of missing most of their
targets (just why was it necessary to even _use_ F-111s? The two
carriers were doing just fine by themselves...)

Praying Mantis, 1988, and the US Navy captures an Iranian minelayer in
the Persian Gulf; in retaliation, half the Iranian Navy gets sunk or
crippled. Neatly done.

1989, and to show the US Navy's not foolproof either they shoot down a
"diving, attacking F-14" that was actually a climbing Airbus A320, in
the middle of an ICAO air lane, squawking Mode III. Did I mention that
the USS Vincennes had previously violated Iranian waters and made an
unprovoked attack on Pasdaran speedboats? About as many mistakes as it's
possible to make in one day. What does the Pentagon do? Give the Captain
a medal.

Oh, let's not forget Panama. F-117s flying all the way from the US to
bomb a field because their attack computers didn't work. A company of
troops sent to clear a building of suspected snipers, being fallen into
three ranks _in that building's car park_ while the company CO gave them
an inspirational speech (eyewitness testimony from a US Army engineer).

Do I even need to mention Somalia?

What was Britain doing in the same timeframe? Policing Northern Ireland
(despite the best efforts of NORAID), securing the Sultanate of Oman,
retaking the Falklands, patrolling the borders of Belize against
Guatemalan incursions, maintaining the Armilla Patrol, and ensuring (1)
that every British-escorted aid convoy in Bosnia reached its destination
intact, (2) that when the UN finally moved decisively against the Serbs,
any Serb artillery piece opening fire within a dozen miles of Sarajevo
suffered a short sharp shower of shells.

Mind you, since the US wasn't around for most of those little incidents,
you might not have heard about them.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 55 At 07:19 PM 8/20/97 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>In message <3.0.32.19970820085924.009a9780@********>, Michael Broadwater
><mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM> writes
>>The US is the UN. Without the US, the UN doesn't have a spine. Luckily,
>>we let it borrow ours every once in a while.
>
<snip of incidents>

Yep, and lord knows the British are better than us about being nice. Where
were all your troops during this? When did they leave? Before, after,
same time? When did they go? How many personnel did you send? An equal
number? Anywhere near an equal number? Some significant percentage? How
much was US, how much was all others combined?

Got answers for those?

Rasputin-the-no-fancy-middle-name-in-dashes-right-now-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Message no. 56 In message <3.0.32.19970820161721.00991a20@********>, Michael Broadwater
<mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM> writes
>At 07:19 PM 8/20/97 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>>In message <3.0.32.19970820085924.009a9780@********>, Michael Broadwater
>><mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM> writes

>Yep, and lord knows the British are better than us about being nice. Where
>were all your troops during this? When did they leave? Before, after,
>same time? When did they go? How many personnel did you send? An equal
>number? Anywhere near an equal number? Some significant percentage? How
>much was US, how much was all others combined?

Cambodia, a company of Royal Engineers spent some months training local
EOD crews, plus numerous civilian mine specialists (several of whom were
kidnapped and, probably, murdered). No US involvement other than
civilian volunteers.

Somalia, no British involvement requested.

Bosnia, one reinforced battalion, plus REME, medical and RE support
(approximately 2000 men) arrived at Vitez in 1991 and are still there
(Sky News just showed our Warriors seizing a police headquarters where
Serb rebels had been stockpiling arms). Plus a standing naval patrol in
the Adriatic, and RAF aircraft operating from Aviano. No US involvement
other than air patrols until the peace accord was signed in 1995.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 57 Michael Broadwater said on 16:17/20 Aug 97...

> Yep, and lord knows the British are better than us about being nice. Where
> were all your troops during this? When did they leave? Before, after,
> same time? When did they go? How many personnel did you send? An equal
> number? Anywhere near an equal number? Some significant percentage? How
> much was US, how much was all others combined?
>
> Got answers for those?

It looks to me like Paul is trying to say that the Americans tend to send
troops in large numbers so they effectively overwhelm the opposition by
weight of numbers rather than by skill. At any rate, the US _can_ send
more troops than most other countries simply because its population is so
much larger.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Looking over the edge...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 58 |>Nope.
|>Just utterly incompitent...
|
|Yeah, that's it. America just doesn't have any good soldiers. We suck. I
|notice all you ever hear about is American friendly fire casualties.
|Probably because we don't suppress the media, and let that information out.
| British soldiers are great! They can do no wrong! Who cares if they
|can't win a fight without the US's help!
|
|Opps, sorry. Falkland Islands. Almost forgot about _that_. We (the US)
|may fight over a nickle a gallon for gas, but we've never really been as
|hard up on sheep as the UK has.

We managed quite nicely in WWII without your help thankyouverymuch!
When did the war start again?

And what the fuck is all this bullshit about "Can't win a fight without US
help"?????

I think you ought to do a bit more research, (and not by reading the
national enquirer).

The brits still have some of the best military tech. (The radio systems for
example beat the US version hands down, and that's almost obsolete by
commercial standards)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 59 |In a message dated 97-08-20 10:04:08 EDT, you write:
|
|<< Yeah, that's it. America just doesn't have any good soldiers. We suck.
| I
| notice all you ever hear about is American friendly fire casualties.
| Probably because we don't suppress the media, and let that information out.
| British soldiers are great! They can do no wrong! Who cares if they
| can't win a fight without the US's help! >>
|
|Guys, lets not go there.

Too late!
I've already flamed him back!

What a lamebrained thing to say...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 60 In a message dated 97-08-21 08:04:58 EDT, you write:

<< Too late!
I've already flamed him back!

What a lamebrained thing to say... >>

Gee, thanks.

Try and keep the peace and see what happens. It is obvious the gentleman is
just trying to start something. No sense in adding fuel to the fire.

Though I have to admit, those who are arguing for the british have well
organized points.

-Bandit

Message no. 61 At 07:19 PM 8/20/97 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:
#Remember, if there isn't a US flag flying then the American news
#networks don't cover it, and if it wasn't reported in Milwaukee then it
#never happened.

So, Milwaukee is the centre of the unviverse?

--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

Message no. 62 on 20.08.97 mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM wrote:

m> >No they didn't.
m> >The ALLIES [The UN] won that one.
m> >NOT the americans.
m>
m> The US is the UN. Without the US, the UN doesn't have a spine. Luckily,
m> we let it borrow ours every once in a while.

Yeah, the USA are the UN. Right. Sure. Certainly...
Just because some country plays emperor in the UN doesn't mean it's the
only player.

Tobias
## CrossPoint v3.1 R ##

Message no. 63 on 20.08.97 mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM wrote:

m> >|Hell, more _Amercians_ died by American FF than by enemy weapons. At
m> >|least they weren't discriminatory. *grin*
m> >
m> >Nope.
m> >Just utterly incompitent...
m>
m> Yeah, that's it. America just doesn't have any good soldiers.

If you kill more of your own people as the enemy, there's something wrong
with your security. Or what?

m> We suck.

You said *that* !

m> I
m> notice all you ever hear about is American friendly fire casualties.
m> Probably because we don't suppress the media, and let that information out.

ROTFL!! The USA don't suppress the media? You don't believe that, do you?

m> British soldiers are great! They can do no wrong! Who cares if they
m> can't win a fight without the US's help!

I just don't get what's so great about being able to kill people
efficently. Oh, yeah: Nobody said British soldiers were great.
(When did the UK ask for the USA's help, anyway?)

Tobias

P.S.: No need to tell me the Bundeswehr sucks. They're just for
entertainment.

## CrossPoint v3.1 R ##

Message no. 64 In a message dated 97-08-23 04:54:24 EDT, you write:

> m> The US is the UN. Without the US, the UN doesn't have a spine.
Luckily,
> m> we let it borrow ours every once in a while.
>
> Yeah, the USA are the UN. Right. Sure. Certainly...
> Just because some country plays emperor in the UN doesn't mean it's the
> only player.

Y'know, it's funny. Popular conspiracy theory in the States has the UN
trying to take over the US, not vice versa.

Wolfstar

Message no. 65 In message <970823051108_-833295870@*******.mail.aol.com>, George Metz
<W0lfstar@***.COM> writes
> Y'know, it's funny. Popular conspiracy theory in the States has the UN
>trying to take over the US, not vice versa.

I know, I know. The New World Order and their black helicopters full of
North Korean and Iranian death commandos, who will kill all the menfolk
and round up the women into "recreation camps, and someone who had The
Proof Of All This was aboard TWA Flight 800 when it was shot down, and
Kennedy was going to pull the US out of the United Nations in 1963
except the NWO hired Jimmy Hoffa to stand on the grassy knoll with a
rifle...

Conspiracy theorists... the best comedy available for free anywhere.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 66 George Metz wrote:
>
> Y'know, it's funny. Popular conspiracy theory in the States has the UN
> trying to take over the US, not vice versa.
>
> Wolfstar

I lived in a community in New Mexico for a while that was _extremely
conservative_. There were 97 churches in a town of twelve thousand out
in the desert, and if the place had been in New England, I would have
said it was Arkham from Lovecraft's work.

They were heavily entrenched in conspiracy theories out there,this being
the greatest gripe among them. They wanted the US out of the UN (not
sure they could rationally justify it).

Then this whole thread got my mind going on our ridiculous militia
groups, which naturally lead my mind to Alamos 20K and the Humanis pc
etc. But my question is, are there any serious terrorist groups working
on the other side of the fence...don't have my stuff with me, but aside
from Tir Na Nog, I can't think of any IE, ork, or other meta based
terrorist groups.

Are there any in the Fasa books that I'm not thinking of?

For what it's worth I have created several metahuman supremacist groups
with their various splinter groups.

Anyway, I have to stop my mouth now...

Jim

Message no. 67 > Then this whole thread got my mind going on our ridiculous militia
> groups, which naturally lead my mind to Alamos 20K and the Humanis pc
> etc. But my question is, are there any serious terrorist groups working
> on the other side of the fence...don't have my stuff with me, but aside
> from Tir Na Nog, I can't think of any IE, ork, or other meta based
> terrorist groups.
>
> Are there any in the Fasa books that I'm not thinking of?
Well, there's a reference to an orc and troll group called
"The Sons of Sauron".

I think that qualifies... but that's the only one AFAIK

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost

Message no. 68 In a message dated 97-08-23 13:02:39 EDT, you write:

> Then this whole thread got my mind going on our ridiculous militia
> groups, which naturally lead my mind to Alamos 20K and the Humanis pc
> etc. But my question is, are there any serious terrorist groups working
> on the other side of the fence...don't have my stuff with me, but aside
> from Tir Na Nog, I can't think of any IE, ork, or other meta based
> terrorist groups

Orks First, any of the Humanis Policlub variants for each of the metaraces,
etc, have fun with paranoia and your imagination.

AirWisp

Message no. 69 In a message dated 97-08-23 11:17:22 EDT, you write:

> I know, I know. The New World Order and their black helicopters full of
> North Korean and Iranian death commandos, who will kill all the menfolk
> and round up the women into "recreation camps, and someone who had The
> Proof Of All This was aboard TWA Flight 800 when it was shot down, and
> Kennedy was going to pull the US out of the United Nations in 1963
> except the NWO hired Jimmy Hoffa to stand on the grassy knoll with a
> rifle...
>
> Conspiracy theorists... the best comedy available for free anywhere.

While true, I begin to start worrying about it when rational people start
thinking about this and seeing the patterns.... I'm not alarmist or anything,
but there are a few whacked out things going on. Ah well.

Wolfstar

Message no. 70 In a message dated 97-08-23 13:02:41 EDT, you write:

> I lived in a community in New Mexico for a while that was _extremely
> conservative_. There were 97 churches in a town of twelve thousand out
> in the desert, and if the place had been in New England, I would have
> said it was Arkham from Lovecraft's work.

Cthulhu meets the Apache? =)

> They were heavily entrenched in conspiracy theories out there,this being
> the greatest gripe among them. They wanted the US out of the UN (not
> sure they could rationally justify it).

Personally, I think the US should get kicked out of the UN, we haven't payed
dues to them in years.

> Then this whole thread got my mind going on our ridiculous militia

Militia groups aren't ridiculous, they're Constitutionally required. In fact,
if you're between the ages of 17 and 45, you are technically part of the
Militia - the reason behind the draft. If you've ever wondered why the
government doesn't just bust the militia groups, it's because they aren't
doing anything illegal.

> groups, which naturally lead my mind to Alamos 20K and the Humanis pc
> etc. But my question is, are there any serious terrorist groups working
> on the other side of the fence...don't have my stuff with me, but aside
> from Tir Na Nog, I can't think of any IE, ork, or other meta based
> terrorist groups.

I don't see any reason why not, but supremacist groups amongst the very poor
are a relatively rare occurence. Usually, they are started by the middle
class when they see a racial group taking their "rights" away. The Orks and
Trolls don't have rights to lose. More than likely you'll find Elven
Supremacist groups, and Ork/Troll "freedom fighter" groups, but not likely to
be vice versa. Dwarves are more likely to throw in with the Orks & Trolls
than be neo-nazi's.

> Are there any in the Fasa books that I'm not thinking of?

Not that I'm aware of.

Wolfstar

Message no. 71 on 23.08.97 W0lfstar@***.COM wrote:

W> > Yeah, the USA are the UN. Right. Sure. Certainly...
W> > Just because some country plays emperor in the UN doesn't mean it's the
W> > only player.
W>
W> Y'know, it's funny. Popular conspiracy theory in the States has the UN
W> trying to take over the US, not vice versa.

<chuckel> I like that. Wasn't there a group who was telling people there
was a German invasion happening, when BMW build thier first factory in the
USA?

P.S.:Is paranoia a national sport over there?

Message no. 72 On 27 Aug 97 at 12:17, Tobias Berghoff wrote:

> P.S.:Is paranoia a national sport over there?

No, and I hate to say it, but we just have more stupidity per capita
than the rest of the world. Certain states (which I will not name)
are complete embarrassments. I work in technical support, and I know
when I get a call from someone in these states that it will be
trouble, and I am usually right.
And unfortunately, I was born and have family in one of them. At
least I was smart enough to leave.

(Please don't flame me for the above. It is an opinion, and I am
grumpy after talking to three of the nippleheads in a row...)

--

===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
Ethernet (n): something used to catch the etherbunny

----------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 73 At 12:17 PM 8/27/97 GMT, Tobias Berghoff wrote:
#<chuckel> I like that. Wasn't there a group who was telling people there
#was a German invasion happening, when BMW build thier first factory in the
#USA?
#
#P.S.:Is paranoia a national sport over there?

actually, it is self-centered half-rightedness
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

Message no. 74 In a message dated 97-08-27 13:14:49 EDT, Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE writes:

> W> Y'know, it's funny. Popular conspiracy theory in the States has the UN
> W> trying to take over the US, not vice versa.
>
> <chuckel> I like that. Wasn't there a group who was telling people there
> was a German invasion happening, when BMW build thier first factory in the
> USA?
>
> P.S.:Is paranoia a national sport over there?
>
Not a national sport, but definitely something beyond a pastime, IMHO.
Enough of one to create numerous movies on the subject, the latest of which
is doing very well in the box office.
-K

Message no. 75 In a message dated 97-08-27 13:27:20 EDT, drekhead@***.NET writes:

> No, and I hate to say it, but we just have more stupidity per capita
> than the rest of the world. Certain states (which I will not name)
> are complete embarrassments. I work in technical support, and I know
> when I get a call from someone in these states that it will be
> trouble, and I am usually right.
> And unfortunately, I was born and have family in one of them. At
> least I was smart enough to leave.
>
> (Please don't flame me for the above. It is an opinion, and I am
> grumpy after talking to three of the nippleheads in a row...)
>
Okay, I'll bite this one...which states. The one I am in is pretty infamous,
but it doesn't quite go as far as Idaho or the Dakotas... (grin)
-K

Message no. 76 On 27 Aug 97 at 20:27, J. Keith Henry wrote:

> In a message dated 97-08-27 13:27:20 EDT, drekhead@***.NET writes:
>
> > Certain states (which I will not name) are complete embarrassments. I work in
technical support, and I know
> > And unfortunately, I was born and have family in one of them. At
> > least I was smart enough to leave.
> >
> > (Please don't flame me for the above. It is an opinion, and I am
> > grumpy after talking to three of the nippleheads in a row...)
> >
> Okay, I'll bite this one...which states. The one I am in is pretty
> infamous, but it doesn't quite go as far as Idaho or the Dakotas...
> (grin) -K

Well, the one I was born in that I mentioned (and smartly left as an
infant) is Mississippi. Complete waste. A nuke could hit it and
nobody would know.
The others I'll just leave alone....

--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 77 on 27.08.97 drekhead@***.NET wrote:

d> > P.S.:Is paranoia a national sport over there?
d>
d> No, and I hate to say it, but we just have more stupidity per capita
d> than the rest of the world.

As you admit it, it can't be that bad, can it? :)

d> Certain states (which I will not name)
d> are complete embarrassments. I work in technical support, and I know
d> when I get a call from someone in these states that it will be
d> trouble, and I am usually right.

Well, you have that everywhere in the world. I could tell you storys about
stupid customers....

Tobias

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer