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Message no. 1
From: ROGER PERRY smithsguild@*******.com
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 02:50:44 GMT
>
>Subject: History of giving the finger.
>
>Isn't history more fun when you know something about it?
> _
> > > > /'_/)
> > > > ,/_ /
> > > > / /
> > > > /'_'/' '/'__'/','/'
> > > > /'/ / / / /_\
> > > > ('( ' ' _ \
> > > > \ |
> > > > \ ' /
> > > > '\' \ _./'
> > > > \ \
> >>>> \ \> > >
>
> Giving the Finger
>
>Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory
>over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured
>English soldiers. Without the middle finger it would be impossible to
>draw the renowned English longbow and therefore be incapable of fighting
>in the future. This famous weapon was made of the native English Yew
>tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew"
>(or "pluck yew")
>
>Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset
and
>began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated
>French, saying, "See, we can still pluck yew! "PLUCK YEW!"
>
>Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say, the difficult consonant
>cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodental fricative
>'F', and thus the words often used in conjunction with the
>one-finger-salute are mistakenly thought to have something to do with an
>intimate encounter.
>
>It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows used with the
>longbow that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird".
>
>And yew thought yew knew everything.

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Message no. 2
From: Simon Fuller sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:09:58 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: ROGER PERRY <smithsguild@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>; SR-2060@*******.com
<SR-2060@*******.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 12:52 PM
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...


>>
>>Subject: History of giving the finger.
>>
>>Isn't history more fun when you know something about it?
>> _
>> > > > /'_/)
>> > > > ,/_ /
>> > > > / /
>> > > > /'_'/' '/'__'/','/'
>> > > > /'/ / / / /_\
>> > > > ('( ' ' _ \
>> > > > \ |
>> > > > \ ' /
>> > > > '\' \ _./'
>> > > > \ \
>> >>>> \ \> > >
>>
>> Giving the Finger
>>
>>Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory
>>over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured
>>English soldiers. Without the middle finger it would be impossible to
>>draw the renowned English longbow and therefore be incapable of fighting
>>in the future. This famous weapon was made of the native English Yew
>>tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew"
>>(or "pluck yew")
>>
>>Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset
>and
>>began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated
>>French, saying, "See, we can still pluck yew! "PLUCK YEW!"
>>
>>Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say, the difficult consonant
>>cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodental fricative
>>'F', and thus the words often used in conjunction with the
>>one-finger-salute are mistakenly thought to have something to do with an
>>intimate encounter.
>>
>>It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows used with the
>>longbow that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird".
>>
>>And yew thought yew knew everything.
>
Well I do know this is bullshit. The English used to raise their first TWO
fingers, which were used to draw their bowstrings. This is known by various
names as the forks or the two-ups. It was fairly common in Australia too
before US culture crushed it. The historical reference is right, though. As
for the 'pluck yew' line, come on! For one thing they were still saying Ye
and Thou back then. For another, the "F" word wasn't known until last
century or so. Giving the bird is even worse, you can't actually believe any
of this can you?
Message no. 3
From: Phil pames@*****.net
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:43:01 -0600
At 04:09 PM 3/29/2000 +1000, Simon Fuller wrote:
>
>and Thou back then. For another, the "F" word wasn't known until last
>century or so. Giving the bird is even worse, you can't actually believe any
>of this can you?


The F word, and related, have been around since at least Chaucer, if not
before. Just an FYI.
Gotta love those Anglo Saxon Monosyllables.

Phil
Message no. 4
From: Phil pames@*****.net
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:55:14 -0600
At 04:09 PM 3/29/2000 +1000, Simon Fuller wrote:
>
>and Thou back then. For another, the "F" word wasn't known until last
>century or so. Giving the bird is even worse, you can't actually believe any
>of this can you?


The F word, and related, have been around since at least Chaucer, if not
before. Just an FYI.
Gotta love those Anglo Saxon Monosyllables. But please, not on the list?
Which part of left field did this come from, anyway?

Phil
Stupid Enter key.
Message no. 5
From: ROGER PERRY smithsguild@*******.com
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:17:22 GMT
"Simon Fuller" wrote:
<SNIP>
"Bullshit"
<snip>
and I replied... Yes, but entertainingly packaged and not without
worth...

"if it's not the complete truth, it should have been" Life and Times of
Judge Roy Bean (probably misquoted as well- sigh) :)

Lilblue

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ SR3++ h+ b++ (b--) ?B UB+ IE RN+ W+ ma++ ad+++ dk++
m+(t+ o+ d+ e---) gm+ M- P-(*P)


-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
G!>GOT d? s:++ a36 C+ !U ?P ?L ?E W+(++) ?N ?o K- w ?O !M-- !V PS+
PE(PE+) Y+ PGP t++ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+ DI+>DI++++ D++ G e(*e) h----
r+++ !y++++(**)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------



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Message no. 6
From: GuayII@***.com GuayII@***.com
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:17:24 EST
In a message dated Wed, 29 Mar 2000 4:50:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, Phil
<pames@*****.net> writes:

> At 04:09 PM 3/29/2000 +1000, Simon Fuller wrote:
> >
> >and Thou back then. For another, the "F" word wasn't known until last
> >century or so. Giving the bird is even worse, you can't actually believe any
> >of this can you?
>
>
> The F word, and related, have been around since at least Chaucer, if not
> before. Just an FYI.
> Gotta love those Anglo Saxon Monosyllables.

It's been around for hundreds of years. Originally, the F word meant exactly what it does
today. Over the years, the meaning changed approximately 6 times, until it came back to
the originally meaning (and what it means today). One of my anthropology professors once
went through the history of the word "f**k. I wish I could remember more, but this
was 5 years ago.

Cash
Message no. 7
From: Logan Graves logan1@********.net
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:42:21 -0500
In our last episode, GuayII@***.com wrote:
>
> It's been around for hundreds of years. Originally, the F word meant exactly what it
does today. Over the years, the meaning changed approximately 6 times, until it came back
to the originally meaning (and what it means today). One of my anthropology professors
once went through the history of the word "f**k. I wish I could remember more, but
this was 5 years ago.

(Thought I'd better post this before GRIDSEC gets wind & shuts the topic
down...)

Right, Cash. It was originally an acceptable word, meaning just what it does
today. The earliest recorded usage is in a 1598 dictionary.

It's NOT from a police blotter abbreviation: "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge."
Likewise it's NOT an abbreviation for: "Fornication Under Consent of the King."

Most etymologists agree that it comes from the Latin (for the same) 'futuere'
which is akin to the Old German 'ficken' or 'fucken' meaning "to strike or to
penetrate" with a then slang meaning "to copulate." This German word is
also
related to the Latin words for 'pugilist, puncture, & prick' all through the
rootword, 'pug,' which goes back to prehistoric times.

The word became more rare during the 18th century when human experience began to
be disguised behind a "veil of decency." The last recording of it (then) was a
1785 "Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue," but the entry appeared as
"f**k."

This put the word out of circulation (although DH Lawrence, James Joyce, & Henry
Miller tried to bring it back) until a 1960 court case, granting Grove Press in
the US the right to print it legally. (The book was DH Lawrence's "Lady
Chatterly's Lover" originally from 1928, but with the word omitted in that ed.)

--Fenris
________________________________________________Logan@************.virtualAve.net
(>) Clean minds, clean thoughts....No dirty thoughts, not
any more...Pure as snow...Clean as a cheerleader, fresh out of the
showe- CLEAN THOUGHTS! GOOD THOUGHTS! "Mother,I need more bleach!"
(>) Raven
Message no. 8
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:09:06 -0500
From: "Phil" <pames@*****.net>
> At 04:09 PM 3/29/2000 +1000, Simon Fuller wrote:
> >and Thou back then. For another, the "F" word wasn't known until last
> >century or so. Giving the bird is even worse, you can't actually believe
any
> >of this can you?
>
> The F word, and related, have been around since at least Chaucer, if not
> before. Just an FYI.
> Gotta love those Anglo Saxon Monosyllables.

The obscenity f*** is a very old word, first recorded in English in the 15th
century. Age has not dimmed its shock value, even though it is seen in print
much more often now than in the past. Its first known occurrence, in a poem
entitled "Flen flyys" written sometime before 1500, is in code, illustrating
the unacceptability of the word even then. The poem, composed in a mixture
of Latin and English, satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England,
with the title taken from the first words of the poem, "Flen, flyys, and
freris," that is, "fleas, flies, and friars." The line that contains f***
reads "Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk." The Latin words
"Non
sunt in coeli, quia" mean "they [the friars] are not in heaven, since." The
code "gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk" is easily broken by simply writing the
preceding letter in the alphabet. As we decode, we must watch for
differences in the alphabet and in spelling between then and now. For g
write f; for x, v (used for u and v); d, c; b, a; o, n; v, t; xx, vv (which
equals w); k, i; x, v; z, y; t, s; p, o; g, f; i, h; f, e; m, l; and for k,
i. This yields "fvccant [a fake Latin form] vvivys of heli." The whole thus
reads in translation: "They are not in heaven because they f*** wives of Ely
[a town near Cambridge]."

Just an FYI. ;)
Message no. 9
From: Spike spike1@*******.co.uk
Subject: [OT] Completely Off Topic...
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:07:08 +0100 (BST)
> Well I do know this is bullshit. The English used to raise their first TWO
> fingers, which were used to draw their bowstrings. This is known by various
> names as the forks or the two-ups. It was fairly common in Australia too
> before US culture crushed it. The historical reference is right, though. As
> for the 'pluck yew' line, come on! For one thing they were still saying Ye
> and Thou back then. For another, the "F" word wasn't known until last
> century or so. Giving the bird is even worse, you can't actually believe any
> of this can you?
>
>

I agree with you about the "pluck yew" thing, but are you seriously saying
an old anglo-saxon word like "fuck" didn't exist 2 hundred years ago???
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spike1@*******.co,uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
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