Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:51:45 -0600

Message no. 1 > I thought, given the art, they might have interest in making it a
> computer / simulation center game. FIT needs rules for their computer
> games too, yah know...

Of course, but those aren't necessarily the same as those for a boardgame.
Crimson Skies is a hex-based game so unless they're doing a hex-based game
on PC (which I doubt -- they're hardly flashy) many of the boardgame rules
simply wouldn't apply.
+++++++++++++++++++

They might very well still apply; how would the player know? The
animation / movement might be based on more "real world" physics, but that
"real world" could be "pixilated" into hexes for purpose of all combat
resolution; the computer could easily translate between the two. Or it
could just determine range / relative facing on the fly per RL physics,
but use the same EFFECTS as a hex game. Didn't Mike M. say that
"Assassin" would follow Shadowrun rules, where possible? Why wouldn't any
other game follow "paper rules"? It wouldn't have to, but having the
framework from a hex game would help the coders, I'd think.
From playing "Mechwarrior", my impresion was very much that the
computer was using Battle tech mech rules to track mech damage. It did
NOT seem to be using any of the "to hit" rules, though; hits seemed to go
were I aimed (except that even lazer "projectiles" moved so slow I had to
lead them), but there may have been some random factor.

Mongoose

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:13:03 +0100

Message no. 2 According to Mongoose, at 12:51 on 29 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> They might very well still apply; how would the player know?

If it's done right, the player wouldn't. But if you try things that are
certain to work in the boardgame but which always fail utterly in the
computer game, then you can find out the two don't use the exact same set
of rules.

> Why wouldn't any other game follow "paper rules"?

That's what I often wondered too, with computer games based on real :)
games. Often enough I've noticed they don't seem to do so, though.

Not that I'm saying this will or will not apply to Crimson Skies, though --
we'd have to see the actual computer game, should one appear, to make
that call.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Een beetje van jezelf en een beetje van magie.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	paool <paool@*******.NET>
Subject:	[OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:26:13 -0500

Message no. 3 Out of sheer boredom really, I decided to check out FASA for any updates, and I saw
that Crimson Skies came out December 10th. Has anybody seen it and/or picked it
up? What's the "official" opinion on it?

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:43:25 -0500

Message no. 4 paool wrote:
> Out of sheer boredom really, I decided to check out FASA for any updates,
> and I saw
> that Crimson Skies came out December 10th. Has anybody seen it and/or
> picked it
> up? What's the "official" opinion on it?
>
I've seen it and picked it up. As for "official" opinion, what do you
mean? I'll probably like it (haven't actually played it yet) - I like
the simultaneous movement and interceptor-like damage templates...

I believe that Microsoft now owns it (it was produced by FASA
Interactive which is now owned by MS). I doubt that any good will
come of that union.

James Ojaste

From:	Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:00:29 -0500

Message no. 5 > > Out of sheer boredom really, I decided to check out FASA for any updates,
> > and I saw
> > that Crimson Skies came out December 10th. Has anybody seen it and/or
> > picked it
> > up? What's the "official" opinion on it?

I've got it. I haven't found anyone to play yet, but based off of the
rules and comparing them to other games, I don't think it will fly
(pun intended). The movement system is too random (for the most part,
everyone writes down their move, then moves them, so you will have
difficulties intentionally out-maneuvering your opponents), plus you
can only fire in a straight line ahead of you, so these two will
combine into lots of random shooting, and just plain not facing the
right way. The damage resolution is based off of filling in a "grid"
of armor with the damage pattern of the particular weapon, which means
that you have to have photocopies of the ships...not a huge problem,
but it severely restricts the quick-play ability that, for example,
Battletech has.

All in all, it looks as if it could be fun for an evening where you
are willing to (for the most part), allow luck to determine who wins.
Strategy-wise, I see it lacking.

> I've seen it and picked it up. As for "official" opinion, what do you
> mean? I'll probably like it (haven't actually played it yet) - I like
> the simultaneous movement and interceptor-like damage templates...

Sorry, I disagree with the movement. The damage templates are nifty,
but as mentioned above, it makes just deciding to whip out a tech
Readout and play not-so-possible

> I believe that Microsoft now owns it (it was produced by FASA
> Interactive which is now owned by MS). I doubt that any good will
> come of that union.

Ouch, didn't realize that FA made it. So much for me buying any
suppliments.

-=SwiftOne=-

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:21:44 -0500

Message no. 6 Brett Borger wrote:
> I've got it. I haven't found anyone to play yet, but based off of the
> rules and comparing them to other games, I don't think it will fly
> (pun intended). The movement system is too random (for the most part,
> everyone writes down their move, then moves them, so you will have
> difficulties intentionally out-maneuvering your opponents), plus you
> can only fire in a straight line ahead of you, so these two will
> combine into lots of random shooting, and just plain not facing the
> right way. The damage resolution is based off of filling in a "grid"
>
Don't forget though that once you get behind somebody, you can
tail them - make them tell you where they'll be and then line up
your guns. Sure, it's not 100% accurate, but I like it. It works
a lot like an old game called Gladiator - trying to outthink your
opponent is the best part!

> of armor with the damage pattern of the particular weapon, which means
> that you have to have photocopies of the ships...not a huge problem,
> but it severely restricts the quick-play ability that, for example,
> Battletech has.
>
BT never interested me. The whole universe (and game) just jarred me.
Heavy Gear on the other hand... :-)

> All in all, it looks as if it could be fun for an evening where you
> are willing to (for the most part), allow luck to determine who wins.
> Strategy-wise, I see it lacking.
>
Strategy-wise? Don't you mean Tactics-wise?

> > I've seen it and picked it up. As for "official" opinion, what do you
> > mean? I'll probably like it (haven't actually played it yet) - I like
> > the simultaneous movement and interceptor-like damage templates...
>
> Sorry, I disagree with the movement. The damage templates are nifty,
> but as mentioned above, it makes just deciding to whip out a tech
> Readout and play not-so-possible
>
Well, just make sure that you've got an adequate stack of sheets.
When I get some spare time, I'll finish building my softcopies and
then I'll just print off a bunch...

> > I believe that Microsoft now owns it (it was produced by FASA
> > Interactive which is now owned by MS). I doubt that any good will
> > come of that union.
>
> Ouch, didn't realize that FA made it. So much for me buying any
> suppliments.
>
Well, I'll take a good long look at whatever they produce, but I'm
definitely going to be very cautious. This is really going to hurt
CS...

James Ojaste

From:	Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:43:27 -0700

Message no. 7 At 11:21 1/26/99 -0500, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:

>> Ouch, didn't realize that FA made it. So much for me buying any
>> suppliments.
>>
>Well, I'll take a good long look at whatever they produce, but I'm
>definitely going to be very cautious. This is really going to hurt
>CS...

FASA still has the license to produce supplements for CS, although FASA Int
(and therefore MS) owns the actual game. So CS supplements are still going
to come out -- due first is Wings over Manhattan. Sourcebook, maps, some
new characters and planes.

I haven't played CS yet, and haven't really read the rules, either. But the
maps are nice, and the cardboard figures are shoddy (Half the graphic ends
up still on the cardboard sheet after you punch it out -- I've started
gluing the planes back together so they look decent.

-Adam J

--
< http://shadowrun.html.com/tss / adamj@*********.html.com >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< "I know one thing, it's about damn time I got new entrance music.">
< -Mankind, 01/10/99 RAW is WAR. >

From:	Grifter13 <sids@*********.CA>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:45:34 -0800

Message no. 8 -----Original Message-----
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Crimson Skies

>FASA still has the license to produce supplements for CS, although FASA Int
>(and therefore MS) owns the actual game. So CS supplements are still going
>to come out -- due first is Wings over Manhattan. Sourcebook, maps, some
>new characters and planes.
>
>I haven't played CS yet, and haven't really read the rules, either. But the
>maps are nice, and the cardboard figures are shoddy (Half the graphic ends
>up still on the cardboard sheet after you punch it out -- I've started
>gluing the planes back together so they look decent.
>
>-Adam J

The shoddy cardboard cut out will make you want to buy the miniatures when
they come out. Plus the miniatures should be pretty cool.

Grifter13

Insert witty sig. line here, but please no ASCII art.

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:03:46 +0100

Message no. 9 According to paool, at 9:26 on 26 Jan 99, the word on
the street was...

> Out of sheer boredom really, I decided to check out FASA for any updates, and I saw
> that Crimson Skies came out December 10th. Has anybody seen it and/or picked it
> up? What's the "official" opinion on it?

I haven't bought it (yet :) but I did play a demo with pre-production
counters a few months ago. From that, I'd say it's at least an interesting
game, not just because of the setting but also with the way the rules for
maneuvering and combat work. It'scertainly not one where you can easily
line up your aircraft behind the enemy and shoot them out of the sky...
I'd say it's worth checking out, at any rate.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And that's as far as the conversation went.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Jon Szeto <JonSzeto@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:44:33 EST

Message no. 10 paool <paool@*******.NET> wrote,

> Out of sheer boredom really, I decided to check out FASA for any updates,
and I saw
> that Crimson Skies came out December 10th. Has anybody seen it and/or
picked it
> up? What's the "official" opinion on it?

I don't know about an "official" opinion, but I can give you a
"freelance" opinion. :-)

I've played Crimson Skies a few times, and I quite like it. I wouldn't
agree with Brett's opinion that it lacks strategy --- rather, it
requires a different kind of tactical thinking than the chess-like
mentality that most miniatures games (like BattleTech) tend to
encourage. (Which, in a way, is kind of more "realistic" for an air
combat simulation; things happen so quickly that intuition is just as
important as strategy.)

Nor would I say that it restricts quick-play ability. I've played some
impromptu scenarios where we just grabbed a couple of planes, a couple
of mapsheets and just jumped right in. Sure, you have to have the plane
sheets photocopied in advance, but pretty much the same's true with
BattleTech too.

My only gripe is that I don't like that it only uses a single ten-sided
dice to resolve rolls --- the resulting probability curve is too flat
for my tastes. But that's IMO.

"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA> wrote,

> I believe that Microsoft now owns it (it was produced by FASA
> Interactive which is now owned by MS). I doubt that any good will
> come of that union.

Yes, technically FASA Interactive (FI) owns the rights to Crimson Skies,
which means Micro$oft owns CS. CS was originally supposed to be a
computer game, but in the process of development, they decided that what
they were working on would fly better (no pun intended) as a miniatures
game.

And don't knock the buyout simply because Micro$oft was involved. From a
freelancer's point of view, I'm looking at it with guarded optimism.
Since M$ owns FI and the license for computer games based off of FASA
products, some of those M$ millions might trickle down to FASA. Which
means that I may actually get paid on time for once, and FASA may find
another novel publisher that actually PROMOTES FASA novels (or at least
doesn't obstruct the development the way ROC does).

Of course, this could all be wishful thinking.

-- Jon

From:	Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:47:29 EST

Message no. 11 In a message dated 1/26/1999 8:49:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
JonSzeto@***.COM writes:

> Out of sheer boredom really, I decided to check out FASA for any updates,
> and I saw
> > that Crimson Skies came out December 10th. Has anybody seen it and/or
> picked it
> > up? What's the "official" opinion on it?

The local Game Preserve here has two copies of the darn thing, it looks
interesting, and perhaps K and I will chip in and get it just to see what it's
like (and perhaps even to get a couple of ideas perhaps for a SR game or two).

-Herc

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:25:05 -0500

Message no. 12 Jon Szeto wrote:
> > I believe that Microsoft now owns it (it was produced by FASA
> > Interactive which is now owned by MS). I doubt that any good will
> > come of that union.
>
> Yes, technically FASA Interactive (FI) owns the rights to Crimson Skies,
> which means Micro$oft owns CS. CS was originally supposed to be a
> computer game, but in the process of development, they decided that what
> they were working on would fly better (no pun intended) as a miniatures
> game.
>
Why they didn't just "sell" it to FASA at that point is questionable -
FI's focus is supposed to be computer games, ne?

> And don't knock the buyout simply because Micro$oft was involved. From a
>
Hoo, that's a rich one. ;-)
MS buyouts have never done anyone but MS any good. They buy off a
competitor, roll a couple of features into their flagship, then kill
off the original product. How this would work with a board game has
me curious, I'll admit.

> freelancer's point of view, I'm looking at it with guarded optimism.
>
Heh. I generally look at things with cynical optimism. It's not the
easiest viewpoint to wrap your perceptions around, but it tends to be
pretty darn accurate at times... :-)

> Since M$ owns FI and the license for computer games based off of FASA
> products, some of those M$ millions might trickle down to FASA. Which
> means that I may actually get paid on time for once, and FASA may find
> another novel publisher that actually PROMOTES FASA novels (or at least
> doesn't obstruct the development the way ROC does).
>
Well, I'm sure that FASA got a big chunk of change for the sale, and
I'm glad that FASA has money to spend. I'm just not happy with the
people they sold it to. MS obviously bought FI for Mechwarrior -
how much attention do you think they're going to pay to anything else?

Then one day MS will start selling games with such "features" as
non-random dice, rules that spontaneously explode every few seconds
and minis that won't fit on that big hexmap you just bought last
year... :-)

James Ojaste

From:	Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:46:12 -0500

Message no. 13 > Don't forget though that once you get behind somebody, you can
> tail them - make them tell you where they'll be and then line up
> your guns. Sure, it's not 100% accurate, but I like it. It works
> a lot like an old game called Gladiator - trying to outthink your
> opponent is the best part!

Okay, as I said I haven't played beyond flying in a few circles to
test movement, so I may be blowing hot air here, but I'm arrogant, and
I accept that :)

I'd say tailing was a great tactical concept for the game, except that
tailing only gives you a little advantage..you learn if they are going
left or right, maybe how many hexes. You then have to guess where
they will go and try to continue to tail them. Since air maps have no
terrain, I hope you are a good guesser. Add to this that if you
manage to stay in a straight line with them, you still are probably
not lined up behind them and facing the same way, so so much for
tailing again. It's a good concept, but I think the movement would
end up being a lot of semi-random moves, spiraling about until one
person gets lucker than the other. Realistic, maybe, but not too
fun.

> > of armor with the damage pattern of the particular weapon, which means
> > that you have to have photocopies of the ships...not a huge problem,
> > but it severely restricts the quick-play ability that, for example,
> > Battletech has.
> >
> BT never interested me. The whole universe (and game) just jarred me.
> Heavy Gear on the other hand... :-)

I mentioned it because Battletech is the flagship of FASA. CS is
obviously an attempt to create another game with the same sort of
appeal.

> > Sorry, I disagree with the movement. The damage templates are nifty,
> > but as mentioned above, it makes just deciding to whip out a tech
> > Readout and play not-so-possible
> >
> Well, just make sure that you've got an adequate stack of sheets.
> When I get some spare time, I'll finish building my softcopies and
> then I'll just print off a bunch...

I can grab a 3025 tech readout and a sheet of paper and have the
working stats for 12 Mechs in 15 minutes. CS will involve
more...overhead. I don't think it will affect the FUN of the game,
but I think it will affect the SUCCESS of the game, long term.
Younger audiences have a harder time getting to copiers, and even for
we old-timers, it sucks to discover that you are one Raven copy short
of your fleet.

> Well, I'll take a good long look at whatever they produce, but I'm
> definitely going to be very cautious. This is really going to hurt
> CS...

In the interests of keeping the OS cease-fire I'll shall rejoice
silently :)

-=SwiftOne=-

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:11:01 +0100

Message no. 14 According to Ojaste,James [NCR], at 10:25 on 27 Jan 99, the word on
the street was...

> Then one day MS will start selling games with such "features" as
> non-random dice

Unless I'm mistaken, Citadel (i.e. Games Workshop) has done that already --
IIRC about ten years ago they sold a set of "Chaos dice" that were D6's
with the word "Chaos" stamped on all six sides...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And that's as far as the conversation went.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Mark A Shieh <SHODAN+@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:04:42 -0500

Message no. 15 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
> > Don't forget though that once you get behind somebody, you can
> > tail them - make them tell you where they'll be and then line up
> > your guns. Sure, it's not 100% accurate, but I like it. It works
> > a lot like an old game called Gladiator - trying to outthink your
> > opponent is the best part!
>
> Okay, as I said I haven't played beyond flying in a few circles to
> test movement, so I may be blowing hot air here, but I'm arrogant, and
> I accept that :)

[snip review of "realistic but dull" tailing]

What have you been playing, a 1 on 1 dogfight? That sounds
dull no matter what system you use. The smallest game that my friends
have played was a 3 v 3 fight, and they seem to prefer 6 v 6 or more
specialized missions. Also, try a mission where the goal isn't to
blow up the other side and limp off the map, it may appeal to you
more. (It sounds like you or a friend already has the rules)

> > > of armor with the damage pattern of the particular weapon, which means
> > > that you have to have photocopies of the ships...not a huge problem,
> > > but it severely restricts the quick-play ability that, for example,
> > > Battletech has.
> > >
> > BT never interested me. The whole universe (and game) just jarred me.
> > Heavy Gear on the other hand... :-)
>
> I mentioned it because Battletech is the flagship of FASA. CS is
> obviously an attempt to create another game with the same sort of
> appeal.

One of the frequently cited "problems" of Heavy Gear is the
inability for a large gear to beat up a smaller gear in combat. gears
are relatively well-armed and poorly armored, so they work best
travelling in squads. A bunch of BT players complained about this for
a while, until they rearranged their tactics. It sounds like CS may
have the same problem of scale.

Mark

From:	Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:09:10 -0600

Message no. 16 :> > Sorry, I disagree with the movement. The damage templates are nifty,
:> > but as mentioned above, it makes just deciding to whip out a tech
:> > Readout and play not-so-possible
:> >
:> Well, just make sure that you've got an adequate stack of sheets.
:> When I get some spare time, I'll finish building my softcopies and
:> then I'll just print off a bunch...

That also sounds like the kind of thing perfectly suited to scanning.
Heck, you could even scan them and use them on your laptop while gaming.
Did somebody mention patterned damage templates? Even better- running a
paint program, you could paste those right in, if you had them saved as
poperly sized images! That would work pretty good for B-Tech also.
Or is this re-inventing the wheel? There are probably more
sophisticated ways to do it, and I guess this doesn't solve the problem
for many people, since you need a scanner and a laptop.

Mongoose

Visit http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/5072/srmnvbr.htm - get
your text from the Vortex!

From:	Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject:	Re: [OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:21:19 -0500

Message no. 17 On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Mongoose wrote:

> :> Well, just make sure that you've got an adequate stack of sheets.
> :> When I get some spare time, I'll finish building my softcopies and
> :> then I'll just print off a bunch...
>
>
> That also sounds like the kind of thing perfectly suited to scanning.
> Heck, you could even scan them and use them on your laptop while gaming.
> Did somebody mention patterned damage templates? Even better- running a
> paint program, you could paste those right in, if you had them saved as
> poperly sized images! That would work pretty good for B-Tech also.
> Or is this re-inventing the wheel? There are probably more
> sophisticated ways to do it, and I guess this doesn't solve the problem
> for many people, since you need a scanner and a laptop.
>

One of those more sophisticated (and better IMHO) ways of handling it is
by picking up the program on the Crimsons Skies site. One of the play
testers wrote it and it does a very good job of allowing you to customize
a plane, what weaponry it is carrying, who the pilot is and printing up a
"character" sheet with that information just like the ones from the book.
It's great for when you have the problem of needing two more sheets of a
particular plane to play (everywhere we game has at least one computer and
a printer).

As for the game itself. Well, I have been enjoying it more than I ever
thought I would enjoy a minatures/ strategy board game. It's easy to learn
and the concepts are not exactly difficult (shoot down the other side).
Thus, it is easy to play with people who are unfamiliar with the game and
has served us well when we have to many missing PCs to role play.

Kama

From:	Bull bull@*******.net
Subject:	[OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Thu, 24 Jun 1999 05:24:40 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 18 Hey, anyone know if there's anything on the web for Crimson Skies,
especially a mailing list? This game kicks much ass, even if it does
recycle a LOT of old Renegade Legion stuff :] I gota copy so I could
learn to demo it at Origins, and just about my whole game group is hooked
(I'm picking up and painting a handful of planes on Friday :)).

BTW, if you're going to be at Origins, come check out Crimson Skies at the
FASA booth, and for heavens sake, sign up for the RPG tourney!!! :]

BTW, is James Ojaste still around here? I saw he has a homebaked RPG set
up for CS... Kinda cool :] We're thinking of combining it with an RPG,
and using the SR rules...

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."

From:	Naughty Jonny naughty@********.com.au
Subject:	[OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:19:00 +1000

Message no. 19 Bull wrote:

> Hey, anyone know if there's anything on the web for Crimson Skies,
> especially a mailing list? This game kicks much ass, even if it does
> recycle a LOT of old Renegade Legion stuff :] I gota copy so I could
> learn to demo it at Origins, and just about my whole game group is hooked
> (I'm picking up and painting a handful of planes on Friday :)).

Normally lives at www.crimsonskies.com, although it wasn't up when I
looked just now. Alternatively, there is the crimson skies page on the
fasa site.

Jon.

From:	DataHaven datahaven@************.com
Subject:	[OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:49:29 -0700

Message no. 20 I run the Crimsonskies Webring, as well as the mailing list. You can
find them at:
www.griffingames.com/csring.html
and
www.griffingames.com/cslist.html

Enjoy the ride!

DataHaven

Bull wrote:
>
> Hey, anyone know if there's anything on the web for Crimson Skies,
> especially a mailing list? This game kicks much ass, even if it does
> recycle a LOT of old Renegade Legion stuff :] I gota copy so I could
> learn to demo it at Origins, and just about my whole game group is hooked
> (I'm picking up and painting a handful of planes on Friday :)).
>
> BTW, if you're going to be at Origins, come check out Crimson Skies at the
> FASA booth, and for heavens sake, sign up for the RPG tourney!!! :]
>
> BTW, is James Ojaste still around here? I saw he has a homebaked RPG set
> up for CS... Kinda cool :] We're thinking of combining it with an RPG,
> and using the SR rules...
>
> Bull
> --
> Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
> bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
> http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
> ICQ: 35931890
> ======================================================> =
> = Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss!
Got any Fours? > = >
======================================================>
> "Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
> -- Greg Proops, "Vs."

From:	Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject:	[OT] Crimson Skies
Date:	Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:05:05 -0400

Message no. 21 Bull [mailto:bull@*******.net]
> Hey, anyone know if there's anything on the web for Crimson Skies,
> especially a mailing list? This game kicks much ass, even if it does
> recycle a LOT of old Renegade Legion stuff :] I gota copy so I could
> learn to demo it at Origins, and just about my whole game
> group is hooked
> (I'm picking up and painting a handful of planes on Friday :)).

There's a CS webring... The main reason I haven't joined is that I haven't
really done a lot with CS or MN since I wrote the thing. If anybody wishes
to sign my petition to officially add another 8 hours to every day, let me
know. :-)

(Snagged from a later post and blatantly C&P'd here, the webring info is
at http://www.griffingames.com/csring.html - best viewed with Internet
Explorer, I'd guess, since it doesn't look pretty in my preferred NS4.6)

> BTW, is James Ojaste still around here? I saw he has a
> homebaked RPG set
> up for CS... Kinda cool :] We're thinking of combining it
> with an RPG,
> and using the SR rules...

Yeah, I'm still around (if barely)! I'm not getting a lot of time to
read ShadowRN, but I do what I can...

I specifically decided *not* to use the SR rules, btw, for a few reasons.
First off, I wanted to use the same stats as the board game so that
they could interconnect neatly (when a character hops into a plane, pull
out the CS box and away you go).

Second, while SR is cinematic, it just doesn't have that pulp feel (at
least to me) - the rules are too complex. Combat in SR tends to be more
strategic than heart-pounding.

Third, and most importantly, I had a couple of cool ideas that I wanted
to try out. :-) Keen observers will note the dual damage tracks nicked
from SR, the Raises nicked from L5R, the attributes obviously copied
from CS (duh), along with a few ideas of my own (that I think turned out
quite well, to be modest ;-) ).

If I Were To Start Over, The Thing I Would Do Differently Would Be:
simplify. It's still too complex.

James Ojaste

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer