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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:34:24 -0700 (MST)
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Seth Fogarty wrote:
/
/ For certain types of emotional conditions (depression being the
/ most common one, but others), there is no viable way to cure it. In
/ these cases, it is often better to block the signal on a permanent
/ passes (Arthritis, chronic back pains, etc.)

Oh contrar monfrar.

Depression is very curable. In the treatment of depression it is sometimes
necessary to administer anti-depresants to stop a runaway chemical
imbalance. During the time that the patient is taking anti-depresants the
therapist can work with the patient to treat the cause(s) of their
depression. Once the cause(s) have been identified and the patient has
learned to deal with them the prescription for the anti-depressant is
discontinued.

You may be thinking of manic depression, where the patient suffers from
a permanent (in most cases) chemical imbalance that must be treated
with medicine (in addition to psychotherapy).

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 2
From: Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:54:53 -0500
David Buehrer wrote:
> / For certain types of emotional conditions (depression being the
> / most common one, but others), there is no viable way to cure it. In
> / these cases, it is often better to block the signal on a permanent
> / passes (Arthritis, chronic back pains, etc.)
>
> Oh contrar monfrar.
>
Eep! I believe you meant: "Au contraire, mon frere". Yikes. ;-)

> Depression is very curable. In the treatment of depression it is
> sometimes
[snip]
> You may be thinking of manic depression, where the patient suffers from
> a permanent (in most cases) chemical imbalance that must be treated
> with medicine (in addition to psychotherapy).
>
I don't know about you, but it looks like he was talking about
arthritis and chronic back pains being emotional?

James Ojaste
Message no. 3
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:06:12 EST
In a message dated 99-02-17 09:34:18 EST, you write:

> Oh contrar monfrar.
>
> Depression is very curable. In the treatment of depression it is sometimes
> necessary to administer anti-depresants to stop a runaway chemical
> imbalance. During the time that the patient is taking anti-depresants the
> therapist can work with the patient to treat the cause(s) of their
> depression. Once the cause(s) have been identified and the patient has
> learned to deal with them the prescription for the anti-depressant is
> discontinued.

As a former mental paitent, I have to dissagree with you. Some paitents never
get off thier medications. For some, there is a real problem with seritonin,
which leads to an interesting case where because of this chemical imbalance,
what would be a minior bummer to you becomes a catastrophe equivalent to the
end of the world to them. And yes, I am specificaly referring to DEPRESSION,
which was part of what I was diagnosed with. They also said I was Narcisstic
(which means I think I'm the reason for all life on the planet).... Can you
tell?
Message no. 4
From: Seth Fogarty aravthamis@*****.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:15:05 -0800 (PST)
---David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.carl.org> wrote:
>
> For the mere cost of a Thaum, Seth Fogarty wrote:
> /
> / For certain types of emotional conditions (depression being the
> / most common one, but others), there is no viable way to cure it. In
> / these cases, it is often better to block the signal on a permanent
> / passes (Arthritis, chronic back pains, etc.)
>
> Oh contrar monfrar.
>
> Depression is very curable. In the treatment of depression it is
sometimes
> necessary to administer anti-depresants to stop a runaway chemical
> imbalance. During the time that the patient is taking
anti-depresants the
> therapist can work with the patient to treat the cause(s) of their
> depression. Once the cause(s) have been identified and the patient
has
> learned to deal with them the prescription for the anti-depressant is
> discontinued.
>
> You may be thinking of manic depression, where the patient suffers
from
> a permanent (in most cases) chemical imbalance that must be treated
> with medicine (in addition to psychotherapy).
>
> -David B.
> --
> "Earn what you have been given."
> --
> email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
>
>
>
Ah! I was under the impression that certain depressions were chemical
imbalances :) Thankee much for the correction.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 5
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:19:02 +1000
>Ah! I was under the impression that certain depressions were chemical
>imbalances :) Thankee much for the correction.

They are - there are two types of depression. The first, 'reactive
depression' is depression for which there is an identifiable reason. The
second, 'clinical depression' is unreasoning depression caused by chemical
imbalances in the brain. This is the kind of depression that's generally
ONLY treatable by psychoactive compounds; therapy will do nothing because
there's no cause for it that therapy can treat.

Lady Jestyr

Quantum physics is God's way of saying "Ha! Solve THAT!"
jestyr@*******.com.au | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr
Message no. 6
From: Dvixen dvixen@****.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:07:38 -0800
>> Depression is very curable. In the treatment of depression it is
>> sometimes
>[snip]
>> You may be thinking of manic depression, where the patient suffers from
>> a permanent (in most cases) chemical imbalance that must be treated
>> with medicine (in addition to psychotherapy).
>>
>I don't know about you, but it looks like he was talking about
>arthritis and chronic back pains being emotional?

I'm not 100% sure that is what was meant, but however....

They certainly can lead to emotional problems.

Imagine having everything you do affected by a loss of range of motion, or
a complete inability to perform certain tasks. Typing is a good example of
something people with arthritis have troubles with typing, using a remote
control - depending on the effected area, of course... Or not being able to
sit, stand or lie down for more than 10 minutes at a time, due to chronic
back trouble. Lifting that 2L bottle of Coke becomes a really stupid
annoying thing to have to ask someone else to do. (What??? You can't lift a
2L bottle of Coke??? You can't open a pack of cigarettes?)

With both of these, forgetting you have them by taking medications is just
not possible, and that is a frustration on their own, some back pains can
be healed by excercise, some never. Medications that relieve the symptoms
often have adverse side effects. Some painkillers can cause ulcers, some
prescription meds causing reflux (upset stomach) Relieve the main problem,
cause some others. I got to the point that I wasn't willing to deal with
the side effects of chronic back pain meds, and I deal (sometimes VERY
poorly) with the pain.

Arthritis... there is no easy healing, and there is nothing that will
provide complete 100% all the time relief. There is a new medication on the
market that *is* coming close, but it's not available on the open market
yet, (not apporved for prescriptions) Using this medications for other
conditions is being closely investigated, as it has almost *NO* side
effects. One of the test patients was thrilled when one day she realised
she *forgot* she has Arthritis, which she had been living with on a daliy
basis for about 20 years. But other patients did have side effects. :/

Physical problems, yes, but they certainly do have an emotional effect. ;)

obSR - I imagine in the world of 2060, that arthritis and such chronic
probelms are much easier to treat, for arthritis I would imagine some sort
of .... transplant/implant of what the joints are missing, Cyberware might
not be in general use of the population for increased strength etc, but in
a small enough amount, it could quite easily solve some problems that
cannot be fixed using conventional (by our standards) methods.

Imagine someone with chronic muscle problems having muscle augmentations,
or replacements, or a toxin filter for the muscles to get rid of waste that
could be causing the pain.... Strengthen bones prone to breaking using bone
lacing....

--
Dvixen - dvixen@********.com - dvixen@****.com
Herkimer's Lair - http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair
"What's your sign?" - "Trespassers will be shot."
Comments/Questions accepted, flames dropped into the abyss.
Message no. 7
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 99 23:06:38 -0500
Once upon a time, Lady Jestyr wrote;

>They are - there are two types of depression. The first, 'reactive
>depression' is depression for which there is an identifiable reason. The
>second, 'clinical depression' is unreasoning depression caused by chemical
>imbalances in the brain. This is the kind of depression that's generally
>ONLY treatable by psychoactive compounds; therapy will do nothing because
>there's no cause for it that therapy can treat.

I will also add that bipolar disorder (manic depression) can also be
subdivided by which swing has a greater effect so it can be disguised as
another form of depression. Many doctors will diagnose depressed youths
as bipolar as a safety net diagnosis (mania expresses itself more with
age). While Lithium is the standard treatment for bipolar disorders
doctors will often prescribe an antidepressant along with Lithium (if it
was prescribed at all). This is due to the fact that Lithium only has an
effect on bipolar disorders and some schizophrenia and must be ingested
in near toxic levels to work.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle
- G.I.Joe

I am MC23
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:21:05 +1000
Dvixen writes:
> >I don't know about you, but it looks like he was talking about
> >arthritis and chronic back pains being emotional?
>
> I'm not 100% sure that is what was meant, but however....

I'd imagine he was talking about cases of psychosomatic "injuries".
Conditions of pain and disability where it is purely imaginary. Arthritis
would not fall into that category at all due to the physical symptoms.

> obSR - I imagine in the world of 2060, that arthritis and such chronic
> probelms are much easier to treat, for arthritis I would imagine some sort
> of .... transplant/implant of what the joints are missing, Cyberware might
> not be in general use of the population for increased strength etc, but in
> a small enough amount, it could quite easily solve some problems that
> cannot be fixed using conventional (by our standards) methods.
>
> Imagine someone with chronic muscle problems having muscle augmentations,
> or replacements, or a toxin filter for the muscles to get rid of
> waste that
> could be causing the pain.... Strengthen bones prone to breaking
> using bone
> lacing....

There's very little other reason why such implants would be created. Some
cyberware is used for enhancements, but a lot more cyberware is clearly
developed to work around injuries and disabilities, with perhaps other uses
coming down the track. Cybereyes/ears/limbs are an obvious candidate, as is
bone lacing. There would also be a lot of cyber/bioware out there that would
be purely medical and not listed. Imagine a bioware thyriod gland (NOT the
superthyroid) that produced insulin for diabetics.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 9
From: Seth Fogarty aravthamis@*****.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:30:57 -0800 (PST)
---Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.com> wrote:
>
> Dvixen writes:
> > >I don't know about you, but it looks like he was talking about
> > >arthritis and chronic back pains being emotional?
> >
> > I'm not 100% sure that is what was meant, but however....
>
> I'd imagine he was talking about cases of psychosomatic "injuries".
> Conditions of pain and disability where it is purely imaginary.
Arthritis
> would not fall into that category at all due to the physical symptoms.
>
> > obSR - I imagine in the world of 2060, that arthritis and such
chronic
> > probelms are much easier to treat, for arthritis I would imagine
some sort
> > of .... transplant/implant of what the joints are missing,
Cyberware might
> > not be in general use of the population for increased strength
etc, but in
> > a small enough amount, it could quite easily solve some problems
that
> > cannot be fixed using conventional (by our standards) methods.
> >
> > Imagine someone with chronic muscle problems having muscle
augmentations,
> > or replacements, or a toxin filter for the muscles to get rid of
> > waste that
> > could be causing the pain.... Strengthen bones prone to breaking
> > using bone
> > lacing....
>
> There's very little other reason why such implants would be created.
Some
> cyberware is used for enhancements, but a lot more cyberware is
clearly
> developed to work around injuries and disabilities, with perhaps
other uses
> coming down the track. Cybereyes/ears/limbs are an obvious
candidate, as is
> bone lacing. There would also be a lot of cyber/bioware out there
that would
> be purely medical and not listed. Imagine a bioware thyriod gland
(NOT the
> superthyroid) that produced insulin for diabetics.
>
> --
> .sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
>
>
Oh dear. Um, I was actually using an extended metaphor, comparing pain
to chemical emotional stimuli. Arithritis would be compared to
chronic, non-clinical, depression... it isn't a psychosomatic pain,
it's very real, but tehre's no real way to cure it. it isn't a
chemical imbalance, it's a very real emotion, but there's no known way
to cure it.

Hm. after reading that, I think I came off sounding like chemical
imbalances that cause depression/bipolar aren't big things...didn't
mean too. They are. but, anyways..hope this clarifies.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 10
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:41:27 EST
In a message dated 99-02-17 23:27:08 EST, you write:

> There's very little other reason why such implants would be created. Some
> cyberware is used for enhancements, but a lot more cyberware is clearly
> developed to work around injuries and disabilities, with perhaps other uses
> coming down the track. Cybereyes/ears/limbs are an obvious candidate, as is
> bone lacing. There would also be a lot of cyber/bioware out there that
would
> be purely medical and not listed. Imagine a bioware thyriod gland (NOT the
> superthyroid) that produced insulin for diabetics.
>

That truly would be a real nifty piece of bio engineering, since its the
PANCREAS that produces insulin, not the thyroid. I know, I had to take
thyroid supplelments when I was growing up. the worst part about it was the
fact that the Dr alway had a zillion different blood tests he had to take
before each visit, and his lab had just about THE most incopetent lab tech's
ever. Net result... a very severe dislike of needles.

Which has one benifit.... at least I'll never be getting into stuff like
Herion.
Message no. 11
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:54:29 -0600
From: Dvixen
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 10:08 PM

>obSR - I imagine in the world of 2060, that arthritis and such
>chronic probelms are much easier to treat, for arthritis I would
>imagine some sort of .... transplant/implant of what the joints
>are missing...

I'm willing to bet that the precursors to a lot of bioware was meant for
this. I can't imagine that Enhanced Articulation wasn't originally designed
to deal with arthritis; the additional benefits came later. A lot of the
enhanced glands probably started life as projects to relieve/cure/combat
glandular disorders, and were later enhanced into the more useful (to
shadowrunners, anyway) items found in SHADOWTECH.

Other enhancements probably started life the same way; I'm willing to bet
that reaction enhancers started life as a means of bypassing spinal damage,
for instance.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 12
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:08:50 +1000
Starrngr writes:
> That truly would be a real nifty piece of bio engineering, since its the
> PANCREAS that produces insulin, not the thyroid. I know, I had to take
> thyroid supplelments when I was growing up. the worst part about
> it was the
> fact that the Dr alway had a zillion different blood tests he had to take
> before each visit, and his lab had just about THE most incopetent
> lab tech's
> ever. Net result... a very severe dislike of needles.

You sure?? *shrug* I dunno... I'm not diabetic, I don't know any diabetics
personally, and I'm not really interested. But I did believe that it was the
thyroid gland that produced insulin.

Hmm... yep, it's the pancreas that produces insulin. So what does the
thyroid gland do that got me mixed up? Hmm... growth hormones (was that your
problem, Star?), bodily function regulators, including heart beat (which is
why there's the super-thyroid gland in SR). Ah, here it is... iodine! It
creates radioactive iodine as a self-regulator, and problems with
over-active thyroid glands (which are serious health problems, apparently)
can be treated with radioactive iodine.

And to link it all back in... an over active thyroid gland can cause severe
depression! :)

So, for the ObSR: are runners with superthyroid glands more likely to be
depressed?

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 13
From: Fhaolan arkemp@*****.ca
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:27:45 -0800
At 05:08 PM 2/18/99 +1000, you wrote:
>Starrngr writes:
>You sure?? *shrug* I dunno... I'm not diabetic, I don't know any diabetics
>personally, and I'm not really interested. But I did believe that it was the
>thyroid gland that produced insulin.
>
>Hmm... yep, it's the pancreas that produces insulin. So what does the
>thyroid gland do that got me mixed up? Hmm... growth hormones (was that your
>problem, Star?), bodily function regulators, including heart beat (which is
>why there's the super-thyroid gland in SR). Ah, here it is... iodine! It
>creates radioactive iodine as a self-regulator, and problems with
>over-active thyroid glands (which are serious health problems, apparently)
>can be treated with radioactive iodine.
>
>And to link it all back in... an over active thyroid gland can cause severe
>depression! :)
>
>So, for the ObSR: are runners with superthyroid glands more likely to be
>depressed?

I can confirm that over-active and under-active thyroids can produce
serious heath problems, including accelerated 'aging' well as other
irregular metabolism problems. Depression is common with over-active
thyroid, while manic-like behavior is just as common from under-active
thyroid. For some strange reason, thyroid malfunctions are far, far more
common with women than men. Thyroid conditions are usually hereditary as well.

People who take thyroid medication for malfunctioning thyroids tend to get
easily depressed as well, because the exact balance of the medication is
very, very delicate, and the doctors tend to err on the side of over-abundance.

Also, if the thyroid completely dies, the symptoms are almost identical to
Altimers (sp?), and can be very easily mis-diagnosed as that, or simply as
senility, depending on how old the patient is.

-Fhaolan, who inherited his under-active thyroid problem from his mother,
who got it from her mother, and so on, and so on, back at least seven
generations according to the records.
Message no. 14
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 04:08:48 EST
In a message dated 99-02-18 02:09:43 EST, you write:

> Hmm... yep, it's the pancreas that produces insulin. So what does the
> thyroid gland do that got me mixed up? Hmm... growth hormones (was that
your
> problem, Star?), bodily function regulators, including heart beat (which is
> why there's the super-thyroid gland in SR). Ah, here it is... iodine! It
> creates radioactive iodine as a self-regulator, and problems with
> over-active thyroid glands (which are serious health problems, apparently)
> can be treated with radioactive iodine.
>
> And to link it all back in... an over active thyroid gland can cause severe
> depression! :)
>
> So, for the ObSR: are runners with superthyroid glands more likely to be
> depressed?

Yes, it was. I was thyroid deficient. Interesting that its a OVER active
thyroid that causes depression. I would have thought it to be the other way
around, since the shadow talk on that page describes users of the HT to be
more like Hyper than depressed.

I'm finding all of this to be real interesting from a RL point of view now....
Was thyroid deficent, (And still am shorter than the average) I WAS hyper
active at times as a kid, and for a great many years suffered from chronic
depression.

Darn SCARY, if you ask me.

ANYWAY, getting back to the ObSR: Like I said, based on the shadow talk in the
book, the HT is described as making one more hyper, rather than depressed. In
fact, most of the symptoms associated with Depression can be found as a side
effect of Cybermancy! I guess the spirit gets real bummed out that its gotta
hang around with this chunk o hamburger that doesnt seem to know when it
should just lay down and die.....
Message no. 15
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 99 08:40:50 -0500
Once upon a time, Robert Watkins wrote;

>So, for the ObSR: are runners with superthyroid glands more likely to be
>depressed?

There's a cause for cyberpsychosis.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 16
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:16:07 +1000
MC23 writes:
> Once upon a time, Robert Watkins wrote;
>
> >So, for the ObSR: are runners with superthyroid glands more likely to be
> >depressed?
>
> There's a cause for cyberpsychosis.

No it's not... the superthyroid is bioware. Now back off on the
cyberpsychosis stuff, which has absolutely no basis in modern medicine (and
we know a fair bit about implants, these days), or I'll find a suitable carp
to thawp you with. :)

(To GridSec: WHY isn't the cyberpsychosis thread banned like the w**dch*ck
thread?)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 17
From: Trunks Ryuko kawaii@********.org
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:30:06 -0500 (EST)
On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Robert Watkins wrote:

> MC23 writes:
> > Once upon a time, Robert Watkins wrote;
> >
> > >So, for the ObSR: are runners with superthyroid glands more likely to be
> > >depressed?
> >
> > There's a cause for cyberpsychosis.
>
> No it's not... the superthyroid is bioware. Now back off on the
> cyberpsychosis stuff, which has absolutely no basis in modern medicine (and
> we know a fair bit about implants, these days), or I'll find a suitable carp
> to thawp you with. :)



Actually, there is a basis for cyberpsychosis. First off, modern medicine
shouldn't be brought into this until you can point out when cyber/implants
is used to for augmentation.

Consider the following scenerio:

Yoiu just got wired 3 and cyber eyes, the whole 9 yards. You move faster,
see more, hear more, can kill a whole platton without breaking a sweat,
etc. Psychologically, don't you think that there might be a case made for
a superiority complex, amongst other psychosises? It would make sense that
for most with these enhancements, a detachment from "normal" people would
be normal. I mean, you *ARE* better, faster, deadiler than the average
joe. It would be like the white wolf vamp mentality. they are just cattle,
pieces of meat.

-kawaii
Message no. 18
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:49:18 +0100
Trunks Ryuko schrieb:
>
> On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> > MC23 writes:
> > > Once upon a time, Robert Watkins wrote;
> > >
> > > >So, for the ObSR: are runners with superthyroid glands more likely to
be
> > > >depressed?
> > >
> > > There's a cause for cyberpsychosis.
> >
> > No it's not... the superthyroid is bioware. Now back off on the
> > cyberpsychosis stuff, which has absolutely no basis in modern medicine (and
> > we know a fair bit about implants, these days), or I'll find a suitable carp
> > to thawp you with. :)
>
> Actually, there is a basis for cyberpsychosis. First off, modern medicine
> shouldn't be brought into this until you can point out when cyber/implants
> is used to for augmentation.
>
> Consider the following scenerio:
>
> Yoiu just got wired 3 and cyber eyes, the whole 9 yards. You move faster,
> see more, hear more, can kill a whole platton without breaking a sweat,
> etc. Psychologically, don't you think that there might be a case made for
> a superiority complex, amongst other psychosises? It would make sense that
> for most with these enhancements, a detachment from "normal" people would
> be normal. I mean, you *ARE* better, faster, deadiler than the average
> joe. It would be like the white wolf vamp mentality. they are just cattle,
> pieces of meat.

Sounds like the goody olde cyberpsychos out of Cyberpunk...
"Those ...others are so feeble ...they break so easily..."

Hold on boy, we WILL take care for you!
;o)
--
__________________________________________
---> Steadfast
Selfproclaimed protector of Gerber
BABY's
Mmwahahahahaar...
"I have 'grosse bumm' in my Pocket!
Yes, a real 'GROSSE BUUMM'!"
German translation for Savalette Guardian.
__________________________________________
And so it came to happen that XXX wrote in reply to XXX:
Message no. 19
From: Tim Kerby drekhead@***.net
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:53:33 -0500
On 19 Feb 99, at 9:16, Robert Watkins wrote:

> (To GridSec: WHY isn't the cyberpsychosis thread banned like the
> w**dch*ck thread?)

Because it's not anymore annoying that the IE or Earthdawn crossover
threads.

--

================================================================ - Tim Kerby -
drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 20
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:26:19 -0700 (MST)
Robert Watkins wrote:
/
/ (To GridSec: WHY isn't the cyberpsychosis thread banned like the w**dch*ck
/ thread?)

um... er... well, ya see... ah..

Adam?

Have fun,
Play nice,
-David Buehrer, your friendly neighborhood GridSec Assistant :)
--
dbuehrer@******.carl.org, ShadowRN GridSec: Nice Guy Division
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Message no. 21
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:01:30 -0700
At 07:26 2/19/99 -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
>Robert Watkins wrote:
>/
>/ (To GridSec: WHY isn't the cyberpsychosis thread banned like the w**dch*ck
>/ thread?)
>
>um... er... well, ya see... ah..
>
>Adam?

I've never honestly seen the need to have it be one of the discouraged
threads. Maybe it's just because I'm not all that interested in it, so I
tend to only skim the messages when it does come up.. <grin>

Let's face it. I trust you guys to play fair and have fun on the list. :-)

-Adam J
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Message no. 22
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:03:45 -0600
:Actually, there is a basis for cyberpsychosis. First off, modern medicine
:shouldn't be brought into this until you can point out when
cyber/implants
:is used to for augmentation.

The reason Modern medicaine can't really be used is because supposed
cyberware mental problems (I refuse to use the C****P******** word) -
which partly result in social penalties - is because those problems are
related to ESSENCE LOSS. You can get the same amount of implants as
deltware, and have much less trouble. Essence does not exist, ot at
least, causes no observed problems re/implants, in todays world.


:Consider the following scenerio:
:
:Yoiu just got wired 3 and cyber eyes, the whole 9 yards. You move faster,
:see more, hear more, can kill a whole platton without breaking a sweat,
:etc. Psychologically, don't you think that there might be a case made for
:a superiority complex, amongst other psychosises? It would make sense
that
:for most with these enhancements, a detachment from "normal" people would
:be normal. I mean, you *ARE* better, faster, deadiler than the average
:joe. It would be like the white wolf vamp mentality. they are just
cattle,
:pieces of meat.

That's jetwash. A physical adept or troll is similarly dangerous, but
runs no mentioned risk of psychosis. Of course, there is no enforced risk
of psychosis for cyber-users either, so the whole "psycho samurai" concept
is outside of cannon, IMO.
Again, you could get just as much cyber, as deltaware, and loose less
essence, while being as deadly. The impact on the persons mental state is
from the essence loss, if anything- not from the cyber they use.

Mongoose
Message no. 23
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: [OT] Emotional Conditions
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 03:35:30 +0100
And so it came to happen that Mongoose wrote:
<snip>
> That's jetwash. A physical adept or troll is similarly dangerous, but
> runs no mentioned risk of psychosis. Of course, there is no enforced risk
> of psychosis for cyber-users either, so the whole "psycho samurai" concept
> is outside of cannon, IMO.
> Again, you could get just as much cyber, as deltaware, and loose less
> essence, while being as deadly. The impact on the persons mental state is
> from the essence loss, if anything- not from the cyber they use.

Sigh. again another one has discovered one of the flaws of the gamesystem.
FASA supports essence loss as negative on socialskills as shown as a
possible malus for cybered dudes (somewere on page 93 SR3rd.). Note that
they did not write cyberessence loss, so a sucked out victim of a vampire
should also have those mali. But that they did not write in there
explicitly. And take a look on it, the conclusion that a Sam with heavy
cyber is more an irratant than someone without is not that far IMO. But the
system is based soleley on essence loss of the cybered dude not on something
different, maybe something like a 'power-level' of the cyberware should be
figured in. The whole concept of bad habbits or odd behavior has nothing to
do with how many cyberware you have intus, aka how inhuman you truly are,
but how much essence you have paid for it. So a Delta ware Sam with full
body replacement, encephalon II and Booster II is actually more human per
rules than the Sam who got it all in normal grade but only has Smartlink II,
Booster II, Datajack, handrazors and the full eyepackage. That does sound
like jetwash IMO.


--
__________________________________________
---> Steadfast
Selfproclaimed protector of Gerber
BABY's
Mmwahahahahaar...
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German translation for Savalette Guardian.
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