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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:03:46 +0100
According to Scott Harrison, on 13-3-06 09:13 the word on the street was...

> Thank goodness this does not run on a Mac.

Even if it did, that doesn't require you to install the app, does it?
The fact that you're forced to download it if you look at their
Downloads page is another matter ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 2
From: jon.gilmour@*****.com (Jon Gilmour)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:43:53 -0500
On 3/13/06, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
>
> According to Scott Harrison, on 13-3-06 09:13 the word on the street
> was...
>
> > Thank goodness this does not run on a Mac.


I can stop trying if it would make everyone happy. I just thought it would
be cool to be able to play online, and I was just updating the group as to
where my research was going. But if its gonna be more bitching then anything
else then I can just let it lay.

-jon
Message no. 3
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:51:22 +0100
According to Jon Gilmour, on 13-3-06 17:43 the word on the street was...

> I can stop trying if it would make everyone happy. I just thought it would
> be cool to be able to play online, and I was just updating the group as to
> where my research was going. But if its gonna be more bitching then anything
> else then I can just let it lay.

Don't give up just because a few people point out negative qualities --
IME there are usually a lot more people in favor of something than
against it, but they're nowhere near as vocal :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:55:42 -0700
On 3/13/06, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Jon Gilmour, on 13-3-06 17:43 the word on the street was...
>
> > I can stop trying if it would make everyone happy. I just thought it would
> > be cool to be able to play online, and I was just updating the group as to
> > where my research was going. But if its gonna be more bitching then anything
> > else then I can just let it lay.
>
> Don't give up just because a few people point out negative qualities --
> IME there are usually a lot more people in favor of something than
> against it, but they're nowhere near as vocal :)

And to be fair, we bitch at everything ;) We're a pretty critical
bunch. Just because people are being critical of certain points
doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. Trust me, if it was a total crock
of an idea everyone would say so :)

Look at the software that's available, weigh your options (do you want
to try to include the linux users, or say to heck with it and go the
easier route of 100% Microsoft?), and then go for it.

--
-Graht
Message no. 5
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:59:03 +0100
On Mar 13, 2006, at 17:43 , Jon Gilmour wrote:

> On 3/13/06, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
>>
>> According to Scott Harrison, on 13-3-06 09:13 the word on the street
>> was...
>>
>>> Thank goodness this does not run on a Mac.
>
>
> I can stop trying if it would make everyone happy. I just thought
> it would
> be cool to be able to play online, and I was just updating the
> group as to
> where my research was going. But if its gonna be more bitching then
> anything
> else then I can just let it lay.
>

Do not stop trying. Ventrilo works on the Mac, and they are working
on a Linux client. There are just some applications that are not
very good, or are dangerous to run, etc. Thank goodness a lot of
them will not run on a Mac!

I would love to get into a group that is able to do this over the
web. I am in CET timezone (Central Europe) and therefore 6 hours
ahead of Eastern US. It will make it difficult to schedule games
unless they are on the weekend. Also, I would prefer to use a chat
client that exists on the Mac since it will mean I can actually use
it instead of attempting to brush the cobwebs off the Windows machine
and powering it up. Using Word documents for character sheets is not
my idea of fun, and I would prefer plain text, RTF, or PDF files.

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison
Message no. 6
From: jon.gilmour@*****.com (Jon Gilmour)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:13:43 -0500
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IHdpbGwgZ2V0IG5lZWRlZCBjb250YWN0IGluZm8sCmV0YywgZXRjLgo=From derek@***************.com
Mon Mar 13 17:23:25 2006
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:23:25 -0600
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
In-Reply-To: <5b28ea550603130913j4446bc32m128396be3dc0f481@****.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C03B06AD.4C35%derek@***************.com>

> Right now I am tempted to say go 100% MS and linux and mac
> can use virtual
PC or WINE. I really want to make it accessible to everyone,
> but if theres a
client out there that does it I can't seem to find its
> website. I am pretty
sure on ventrilos site they list a linux client btw (I
> could be wrong
though).

I'll look some more tonight, and worst case I will
> start a new thread with
the programs needed, and times listed. Then anyone
> interested and capable of
playing can "sign up" in that thread and I will get
> needed contact info,
etc, etc.


If you want a way to be able to give maps, other files, and have voice and
text chat capability, look into Haxial's KDX...it's what I used for an SR4
net game a while back, it worked fairly decent however, didn't have any kind
of whiteboard app...though, there are always things for roleplaying that're
designed specifically for that purpose....Hourglass comes to mind as one
that's mac and windows compatible, then there's webrpg and if memory serves
openrpg or something like that. Most of the online gaming tools are made
for D20, however, nothing says you've got to use them for anything other
than mapboarding.

--D--
Message no. 7
From: zealey@****.net.au (James Zealey)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:23:41 +1100
> Re: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
>
> I can stop trying if it would make everyone happy. I just thought it would
> be cool to be able to play online, and I was just updating the group as to
> where my research was going. But if its gonna be more bitching then anything
> else then I can just let it lay.
>
> -jon
>
It's called a critical analysis. The fact that I checked these programs
out with a fair amount of depth should tell you something - ie: That I'm
interested in this stuff, and that I hadn't seen those particular apps
before. I NEVER install something on my computer without checking it out
first. Keeps my machine lean and clean.
Message no. 8
From: read.nate@*****.com (Nate Read)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:37:52 -0500
On 3/13/06, Jon Gilmour <jon.gilmour@*****.com> wrote:

> I can stop trying if it would make everyone happy. I just thought it would
> be cool to be able to play online, and I was just updating the group as to
> where my research was going. But if its gonna be more bitching then anything
> else then I can just let it lay.
>
> -jon
>

It looks to me like the list members decided to research your
suggestion on their own and found it lacking. There have been plenty
of alternatives suggested with a better reputation and reviews.
There's no need to take it personally.

-Nate
Message no. 9
From: jon.gilmour@*****.com (Jon Gilmour)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:56:15 -0500
It looks to me like the list members decided to research your
suggestion on their own and found it lacking. There have been plenty
of alternatives suggested with a better reputation and reviews.
There's no need to take it personally.

-Nate


Yeah, sorry about that I was having a terrifically craptastic morning. But
they found it lacking before I had even a chance to fully investigate it
myself, and put forth my feelings on it. And I would say that the people
that made any kind of "research" on it only read some reviews and didn't try
installing it themselves in a contained invironment or checking it out
otherwise. Not that there is any problem with that, but I had plans to fully
check it out, I was just updating everyone as to where my reseach was going,
as I was pretty psyched about being able to play online.

So far most of the other suggestions have been lacking the main thing that
was even getting me to suggest that program, which is shared whiteboard.

But I agree.. I should have stewed on it before I fired back my whiney "I
quit" email. Thats what happens when I've been up way too long in the
morning without any coffee.
Message no. 10
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:16:06 -0700
On 3/13/06, Jon Gilmour <jon.gilmour@*****.com> wrote:
>
> So far most of the other suggestions have been lacking the main thing that
> was even getting me to suggest that program, which is shared whiteboard.

I looked pretty hard and the only good programs I could find were very
expensive.

Do you have a webcam? Make up and print out pieces of paper with
large grids with alpha along one axis and numbers along the other.
Mount the web cam on something so it's looking straight down at your
table. Put a grid under it and sketch out the map for the players and
then put markers where they are. They can tell you if they're going
from A1 to B4 or whatever via IM or voice (whichever you go with, tho
I recommend voice). Anyway, that's another option :) And the players
can even watch you roll dice for them (or they can hook up webcams if
they have them and you can watch them roll their dice).

--
-Graht
Message no. 11
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:37:41 +0100
According to Jon Gilmour, on 13-3-06 18:13 the word on the street was...

> Right now I am tempted to say go 100% MS and linux and mac can use virtual
> PC or WINE.

Virtual PC costs money, which is a bit of a drawback -- I wouldn't spend
US$129 to play in an on-line RPG, but if you already have it for other
purposes, this wouldn't be an issue. Wine is free, and runs on both
Power PC and Intel Macs, but AFAIK only the latter will be able to
actually run Windows programs with it (I did get it installed on my iMac
G5, but it didn't actually seem to work so I chucked it in the trash :)
Anyone running Linux on an x86 PC should be able to use Wine, though.

> I really want to make it accessible to everyone

My idea is that maybe you're going about this partly the wrong way. I'd
suggest first taking a broad look at what's out there in terms of useful
software, and then seeing who's interested in actually playing. Once you
have a group assembled, you can then choose software that will work for
all of them, which will reduce the hassle by quite a big margin, if you
ask me. This because if there are no (for example) Linux users in the
group, you won't have to look at Linux software at all ...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: jon.gilmour@*****.com (Jon Gilmour)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:31:44 -0500
On 3/14/06, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
>
> According to Jon Gilmour, on 13-3-06 18:13 the word on the street was...
>
> > Right now I am tempted to say go 100% MS and linux and mac can use
> virtual
> > PC or WINE.
>
> Virtual PC costs money, which is a bit of a drawback -- I wouldn't spend
> US$129 to play in an on-line RPG, but if you already have it for other
> purposes, this wouldn't be an issue. Wine is free, and runs on both
> Power PC and Intel Macs, but AFAIK only the latter will be able to
> actually run Windows programs with it (I did get it installed on my iMac
> G5, but it didn't actually seem to work so I chucked it in the trash :)
> Anyone running Linux on an x86 PC should be able to use Wine, though.
>
> > I really want to make it accessible to everyone
>
> My idea is that maybe you're going about this partly the wrong way. I'd
> suggest first taking a broad look at what's out there in terms of useful
> software, and then seeing who's interested in actually playing. Once you
> have a group assembled, you can then choose software that will work for
> all of them, which will reduce the hassle by quite a big margin, if you
> ask me. This because if there are no (for example) Linux users in the
> group, you won't have to look at Linux software at all ...


I definately know what your saying. I just wanted to make sure that all my
bases were covered before we set anything up, I'm just through like that.
I think that gametable program should be about pefect, multiplatform, chat
enabled, and full whiteboard.
Message no. 13
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:01:58 +0100
On Mar 14, 2006, at 13:31 , Jon Gilmour wrote:

> On 3/14/06, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
>>
>> According to Jon Gilmour, on 13-3-06 18:13 the word on the street
>> was...
>>
>>> Right now I am tempted to say go 100% MS and linux and mac can use
>> virtual
>>> PC or WINE.
>>
>> Virtual PC costs money, which is a bit of a drawback -- I wouldn't
>> spend
>> US$129 to play in an on-line RPG, but if you already have it for
>> other
>> purposes, this wouldn't be an issue. Wine is free, and runs on both
>> Power PC and Intel Macs, but AFAIK only the latter will be able to
>> actually run Windows programs with it (I did get it installed on
>> my iMac
>> G5, but it didn't actually seem to work so I chucked it in the
>> trash :)
>> Anyone running Linux on an x86 PC should be able to use Wine, though.
>>
>>> I really want to make it accessible to everyone
>>
>> My idea is that maybe you're going about this partly the wrong
>> way. I'd
>> suggest first taking a broad look at what's out there in terms of
>> useful
>> software, and then seeing who's interested in actually playing.
>> Once you
>> have a group assembled, you can then choose software that will
>> work for
>> all of them, which will reduce the hassle by quite a big margin,
>> if you
>> ask me. This because if there are no (for example) Linux users in the
>> group, you won't have to look at Linux software at all ...
>
>
> I definately know what your saying. I just wanted to make sure that
> all my
> bases were covered before we set anything up, I'm just through like
> that.
> I think that gametable program should be about pefect,
> multiplatform, chat
> enabled, and full whiteboard.


I have downloaded GameTable and would like to test it. Anyone want
to chat for a moment?

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison
Message no. 14
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:14:05 +0100
According to Scott Harrison, on 14-3-06 14:01 the word on the street was...

> I have downloaded GameTable and would like to test it. Anyone want
> to chat for a moment?

I'm about to download it, just to see what it is, exactly :) It's
unpacking the .zip as I type this ...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: davek@***.lonestar.org (David Kettler)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:14:10 +0000
On Tue, Mar 14, 2006 at 11:37:41AM +0100, Gurth wrote:
> According to Jon Gilmour, on 13-3-06 18:13 the word on the street was...
>
> >Right now I am tempted to say go 100% MS and linux and mac can use virtual
> >PC or WINE.
>
> Virtual PC costs money, which is a bit of a drawback -- I wouldn't spend
> US$129 to play in an on-line RPG, but if you already have it for other
> purposes, this wouldn't be an issue. Wine is free, and runs on both
> Power PC and Intel Macs, but AFAIK only the latter will be able to
> actually run Windows programs with it (I did get it installed on my iMac
> G5, but it didn't actually seem to work so I chucked it in the trash :)
> Anyone running Linux on an x86 PC should be able to use Wine, though.
>

What's with all this faith in wine? Have you ever actually used wine? It's not exactly
reliable. Getting an app to run at all is a challenge, and even if it does run there will
usually be a ton of bugs and missing features. About the only application I've ever run
under wine with complete success is minesweeper. I don't know, it's been years since I've
even tried using wine so maybe it's gotten better but my experience with it has not
exactly been positive.

Of course, gametable has a Linux client so that looks fine. It's ventrilo I would be
worried about...though they do claim to have a Linux client in development, who knows when
it will be out.

But I have the feeling I'm the only die-hard UNIX type here, so don't hold back too much
on my account.

--
Dave Kettler
davek@***.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Message no. 16
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:17:54 +0100
According to David Kettler, on 14-3-06 19:14 the word on the street was...

> What's with all this faith in wine? Have you ever actually used
> wine?

Only an old version, a couple of years ago on my old Linux PC. That
worked OK with simple programs, but not with anything reasonably
complicated; I kind of expect the current version to be more useful,
though I have no idea if it is :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: jon.gilmour@*****.com (Jon Gilmour)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:21:24 -0500
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bWUgYXQgaG9tZSBhdApqZ2lsbW91ckBnbWFpbC5jb20KFrom gurth@******.nl Tue Mar 14 18:26:49 2006
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:26:49 +0100
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
In-Reply-To: <5b28ea550603141021o3c7f6acci870d470a2ad6aceb@****.gmail.com>
References: <20060312170004.32D542050D@*****.dumpshock.com>
<4414A23C.3030301@****.net.au>
<77F76728-528B-4822-BD20-08D2C3765F9D@**********.com>
<44154382.6050102@******.nl>
<5b28ea550603130843x4e8189c4y389a76d8701dd12e@****.gmail.com>
<A10ED776-BF45-4EC6-9834-6B67C5C8F528@**********.com>
<5b28ea550603130913j4446bc32m128396be3dc0f481@****.gmail.com>
<44169CF5.2050907@******.nl>
<5b28ea550603140431q4fd310eakce2c66113172a8f2@****.gmail.com>
<AF0A6B9A-F5E4-4314-85B8-7F3623C504E5@**********.com>
<5b28ea550603141021o3c7f6acci870d470a2ad6aceb@****.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44170AE9.7070806@******.nl>

According to Jon Gilmour, on 14-3-06 19:21 the word on the street was...

> tonight around 8:30

Which time zone? 8:30 tonight is in just over an hour for me, and IIRC
for Scott as well, but 8:30 tonight in the Americas is the middle of the
night over here :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 18
From: jon.gilmour@*****.com (Jon Gilmour)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:35:36 -0500
err my bad, 8:30 EST UStime
its 1:34pm here.


On 3/14/06, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
>
> According to Jon Gilmour, on 14-3-06 19:21 the word on the street was...
>
> > tonight around 8:30
>
> Which time zone? 8:30 tonight is in just over an hour for me, and IIRC
> for Scott as well, but 8:30 tonight in the Americas is the middle of the
> night over here :)
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
> Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
> -> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
> -> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-
>
> GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
> M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
> Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
>
Message no. 19
From: read.nate@*****.com (Nate Read)
Subject: [OT] GCN (was Re: Online shadowrun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:25:52 -0500
>
> So far most of the other suggestions have been lacking the main thing that
> was even getting me to suggest that program, which is shared whiteboard.
>
> But I agree.. I should have stewed on it before I fired back my whiney "I
> quit" email. Thats what happens when I've been up way too long in the
> morning without any coffee.


It happens. No sweat. I'm looking forward to how GameTable works out
for your group. I'm already playing in a campaign around the same
time, otherwise I'd join you.

Good luck!

-Nate

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Thwap!