Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Tue May 15 23:20:00 2001
So, how do you all feel about using adept improved abilities for skills
other than listed? For example, I'm thinking about taking imp. abil.
Electronics, by viewing it as my character can visualize the flow of the
actual electrons and pathways. And if so, how would you classify it cost
wise: .5 like the combat skills, or .25/die like athletics, stealth, etc...


Dave
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Wed May 16 11:45:07 2001
caelric@****.com writes:

> So, how do you all feel about using adept improved abilities for skills
> other than listed? For example, I'm thinking about taking imp. abil.
> Electronics, by viewing it as my character can visualize the flow of the
> actual electrons and pathways. And if so, how would you classify it cost
> wise: .5 like the combat skills, or .25/die like athletics, stealth, etc...

Um, I wouldn't really think that ability in the physical realms, which tends
to be what Adepts are good at. They used to be called Physical Adepts for
just that reason.

OTOH, to answer the second part of your question, I would give it a _higher_
cost than any of the listed skills, simply because it was so out of the
ordinary and unconventional. Perhaps 0.75 points per point.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GE d- s++:-- a24 C++ US++>+++ P+ L++>+++ E- W+>++ N++ o@ K- w+(--) O-@
M-- V- PS+ PE(-) Y+>++ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X++>+++ R+(++) !tv(--) b+ DI+++@
D G+ e++>++++$ h(*) r++ y-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wolfchild)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Wed May 16 14:20:00 2001
>> So, how do you all feel about using adept improved abilities for skills
>> other than listed? For example, I'm thinking about taking imp. abil.
>> Electronics, by viewing it as my character can visualize the flow of
>> the actual electrons and pathways. And if so, how would you classify
>> it cost wise: .5 like the combat skills, or .25/die like athletics,
>> stealth, etc...
>
> Um, I wouldn't really think that ability in the physical realms, which
> tends to be what Adepts are good at. They used to be called Physical
> Adepts for just that reason.

I disagree. The Electronics skill isn't really any more or less physical
than, say, the Pistols skill. Both skills are largely mental processes
that require only limited physical activity. The only arguement I can see
against an Electronics Imp. Ability is that it defaults to Intelligence
rather than one of the physical attributes. Then again, physads are able
to improve the Gunnery and Launch Weapons skills which also default to
Intelligence.

Personally, I allow physads to improve any skill except knowledge and
social skills. This allows for physad mechanics, physad artists, physad
musicians, physad paramedics, etc. All Imp. Ability skills that aren't
explicitly listed somewhere in a SR book are given a cost of .5 per die.

Of course I have also allowed weapon foci surgical instruments to improve
a doctor's skill in the operating room so I guess YMMV.



Wolfchild - "Life ain't easy for a troll named Sue."
--
"Quin tu istanc orationem hinc veterem atque|"Let us spend one day as
antiquam amoves?" -Plautus, Miles Gloriosus|deliberately as Nature. . .
--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--|and not be thrown off the
"There are nights when the wolves are silent|track by every nutshell and
and only the moon howls." -George Carlin |mosquito's wing that falls on
Wolfchild <nathan.olsen@*******.msus.edu> |the rails." -H.D.Thoreau
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Wed May 16 22:35:00 2001
<snipt!(TM)>
> > Um, I wouldn't really think that ability in the
physical realms, which tends to be what Adepts are
good at. They used to be called Physical Adepts for
just that reason.
>
> I disagree. The Electronics skill isn't really any
more or less physical than, say, the Pistols skill.
Both skills are largely mental processes that require
only limited physical activity. The only arguement I
can see against an Electronics Imp. Ability is that it
defaults to Intelligence rather than one of the
physical attributes. Then again, physads are able to
improve the Gunnery and Launch Weapons skills which
also default to Intelligence.
>
> Personally, I allow physads to improve any skill
except knowledge and social skills. This allows for
physad mechanics, physad artists, physad musicians,
physad paramedics, etc. All Imp. Ability skills that
aren't explicitly listed somewhere in a SR book are
given a cost of .5 per die.
>
> Of course I have also allowed weapon foci surgical
instruments to improve a doctor's skill in the
operating room so I guess YMMV.
> Wolfchild - "Life ain't easy for a troll named Sue."

I like this, Wolfchild...uh, not the weapon foci
thing, but the rest. :)

This really brings adepts in line with the gameworld
data you find in Awakenings - and as that's my
favourite SR book ever, well...:)

Seriously, if you haven't already, Damion (or you
haven't for a while), read what it says there on
adepts, then see if you're still against expanded the
Improved Ability power.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @*****.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Patrick Goodman)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Wed May 16 23:25:01 2001
From: caelric@****.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 10:21 PM

> So, how do you all feel about using adept improved abilities for skills
> other than listed? For example, I'm thinking about taking imp. abil.
> Electronics, by viewing it as my character can visualize the flow of the
> actual electrons and pathways. And if so, how would you classify it cost
> wise: .5 like the combat skills, or .25/die like athletics,
> stealth, etc...

I'm all for it. In fact, it bothers me somewhat that they didn't include
things like this in MAGIC IN THE SHADOWS.

I allow this in my games, and typically charge .25/die, with the normal
limits of how much you can buy of any given power.
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Patrick Goodman)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Wed May 16 23:30:01 2001
From: Damion Milliken
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 10:49 AM

> > So, how do you all feel about using adept improved abilities for skills
> > other than listed? For example, I'm thinking about taking imp. abil.
> > Electronics, by viewing it as my character can visualize the flow of the
> > actual electrons and pathways.
>
> Um, I wouldn't really think that ability in the physical realms,
> which tends to be what Adepts are good at.

Only because that's all anybody ever seems to use them for. Magic is about
more than combat and shit.

> They used to be called Physical Adepts for just that reason.

One of the reasons for *not* calling them Physical Adepts now, instead
calling them simply "adepts", is to try and get away from this limited view.
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Patrick Goodman)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Wed May 16 23:30:07 2001
From: Wolfchild
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:24 PM

> Personally, I allow physads to improve any skill except knowledge and
> social skills. This allows for physad mechanics, physad artists, physad
> musicians, physad paramedics, etc.

Ladies and genetlemen, we have a winner! This is exactly what I'm talking
about. They mention that these things exist, but they don't provide guidance
for how to do it on a consistent basis.

> All Imp. Ability skills that aren't
> explicitly listed somewhere in a SR book are given a cost of .5 per die.

I might have to go to this cost; your reasoning makes some sense to me.

> Of course I have also allowed weapon foci surgical instruments to improve
> a doctor's skill in the operating room so I guess YMMV.

Oooooooh! I *like* it! I never considered that...and me, with a magical
doctor in my posse of NPCs....
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Thu May 17 00:10:01 2001
[Rand Ratinac] writes:

> Seriously, if you haven't already, Damion (or you haven't for a while),
> read what it says there on adepts, then see if you're still against
> expanded the Improved Ability power.

Oh yeah, very good point. Adept Electrical Engineers and Electricians
should be quite possible.

I'll have to stop recalling _old_ SR stuff. I remember saying that I needed
to reread the SR3 core books a while back (something similar prompted this,
I believe). Maybe I _actually_ should. <grin>

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GE d- s++:-- a24 C++ US++>+++ P+ L++>+++ E- W+>++ N++ o@ K- w+(--) O-@
M-- V- PS+ PE(-) Y+>++ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X++>+++ R+(++) !tv(--) b+ DI+++@
D G+ e++>++++$ h(*) r++ y-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lady Jestyr)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Thu May 17 03:00:01 2001
At 01:48 AM 17/05/01 +1000, Damion Milliken wrote:

>> So, how do you all feel about using adept improved abilities for skills
>> other than listed? For example, I'm thinking about taking imp. abil.
>> Electronics, by viewing it as my character can visualize the flow of the
>> actual electrons and pathways. And if so, how would you classify it cost
>> wise: .5 like the combat skills, or .25/die like athletics, stealth,
etc...
>
>Um, I wouldn't really think that ability in the physical realms, which tends
>to be what Adepts are good at. They used to be called Physical Adepts for
>just that reason.

But they can get Centering for Technical skills when they initiate, IIRC,
thus implying that their magic can be bent towards enhancing technical
skills. If they can use Centering for it, why can't they get Imp. Ability
for it too?

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Thu May 17 03:10:01 2001
On Thu, 17 May 2001 17:04:14 +1000 Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*********.html.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> But they can get Centering for Technical skills when they initiate,
> IIRC,
> thus implying that their magic can be bent towards enhancing
> technical
> skills. If they can use Centering for it, why can't they get Imp.
> Ability
> for it too?

Becaused that would be consistent or something ... we don't want that ...
;)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Hahns Shin)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Sat May 19 01:35:01 2001
> But they can get Centering for Technical skills when they initiate,
IIRC,
> thus implying that their magic can be bent towards enhancing
technical
> skills. If they can use Centering for it, why can't they get Imp.
Ability
> for it too?
>
> Lady Jestyr
> ~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~
*tips hat* Lady Jestyr, that is the BEST argument for having Imp.
Ability in other skills that I've seen. I still probably won't allow
it in my campaign (knowing that my players are just looking to abuse
it), but it is enough of a justification in my mind to allow it for
NPCs. Of course, in our group, we have a player that had a Music Adept
(improved ability in her music skills, some improved senses and astral
perception), but this was supported by references and literature (and
the fact that she was just so darn cool). Even thinking about improved
Electronics or Build/Repair skills makes me think of the "Natural
Mechanical Genius" ability in good ol' TMNT: After the Bomb. Natural
Mechanical Geniuses can fix anything, but the "fixed" item immediately
becomes broken again after leaving the presence of the character, who
naturally assumes that the owner was abusing the said item.

I can see the counterargument, though: Centering is merely a focusing
of the mind to ignore outside distractions given the task at hand,
making it sort of a mystic meditation skill rather than actually
"improving" an ability. But if this is the case, then why not let ALL
magically actives use alternative forms of Centering?

Hahns Shin, MS II
Budding cybersurgeon
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Sat May 19 11:50:01 2001
> I can see the counterargument, though: Centering is merely a focusing
> of the mind to ignore outside distractions given the task at hand,
> making it sort of a mystic meditation skill rather than actually
> "improving" an ability. But if this is the case, then why not let ALL
> magically actives use alternative forms of Centering?
> Hahns Shin, MS II

Game balance; Adepts get to take Centering many more times because they
can't take Shielding, Reflecting, Quickening, Summoning, Possession, or
Anchoring. Gotta give 'em something else to play with.

====-Boondocker

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Other Adept Imp. Abilities?
Date: Sat May 19 14:40:00 2001
On Sat, 19 May 2001 08:54:34 -0700 (PDT) BD <l3oondocker@*****.com>
writes:
<SNIP>
> Game balance; Adepts get to take Centering many more times because
> they
> can't take Shielding, Reflecting, Quickening, Summoning, Possession,
> or
> Anchoring. Gotta give 'em something else to play with.

You mean Invoking, not Summoning... ;) "Oh my god! I have to iniate in
order summon? Even as a summoner? what the hell am I supposed to do until
then?" :)

Hmmm ... I just realized Enhanced Centering isn't an adept power anymore
... oh well. :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Other Adept Imp. Abilities?, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.