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Message no. 1
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:56:23 EDT
In a message dated 7/28/00 12:02:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sinabian@********.net writes:

> Gods I miss that show! And I can't wait until the new movie comes out!
> (which they're finally showing the previews and this one looks like it
could
> blow the first one out of the water!...the other two would be easy to
> top...definitley not the best sequels in the world...)

Well let's check the score....the first movie's ending in and of itself
preculdes ANY other sequels, yet two were made, HL2 being the dirtiest peice
of trash the Sci-Fi industry has ever come out with, and HL3 being really
just irrelevant. Then there's the series, which though cool and expounding on
the Immortal condition more than the first slugfest...err...movie... was
STILL non-sensical becuase of the first. Yes the producers explain it away as
an "alternate HL timeline" but that makes about as much sense as the concepts
behind Quantum Leap....hey there's another possible SR adventure
premise....at any rate I do like Connor and Duncan together, I'd like to see
how they explain it away, and it seems the preview I saw has small snips from
the first movie...perhaps they actually found a logical way to connect the
whole messy franchise....naaah....

Syphon <~~~ doesn't even wanna mention the Highlander cartoon
Message no. 2
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:07:40 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: SyphonAC@***.com <SyphonAC@***.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, July 29, 2000 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1


>In a message dated 7/28/00 12:02:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>sinabian@********.net writes:
>
>> Gods I miss that show! And I can't wait until the new movie comes out!
>> (which they're finally showing the previews and this one looks like it
>could
>> blow the first one out of the water!...the other two would be easy to
>> top...definitley not the best sequels in the world...)
>
>Well let's check the score....the first movie's ending in and of itself
>preculdes ANY other sequels, yet two were made, HL2 being the dirtiest
peice
>of trash the Sci-Fi industry has ever come out with, and HL3 being really
>just irrelevant.

Highlander 3 reminded me of those rap songs where they just play the score
to someone else's hit and mumble something about how good they are over the
top, the theory being that the audience liked the song when it was original
so they'd like it again. Every single theme and plot piece from the first
was included, including the maniacal car drive with a freaked out passenger.
Very sad.

> Then there's the series, which though cool and expounding on
>the Immortal condition more than the first slugfest...err...movie... was
>STILL non-sensical becuase of the first. Yes the producers explain it away
as
>an "alternate HL timeline" but that makes about as much sense as the
concepts
>behind Quantum Leap....hey there's another possible SR adventure
>premise....at any rate I do like Connor and Duncan together, I'd like to
see
>how they explain it away, and it seems the preview I saw has small snips
from
>the first movie...perhaps they actually found a logical way to connect the
>whole messy franchise....naaah....
>

I always thought that the series was set before the movie, meaning that
Duncan was doomed to be an also-ran in the Gathering. If they set the new
sequel in the far past it could work, though no sequel could capture the
apocalyptic edge of the original.

>Syphon <~~~ doesn't even wanna mention the Highlander cartoon

There is one?
Message no. 3
From: Aristotle antithesis@**********.com
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:59:44 -0400
>>>Syphon said:
"Well let's check the score....the first movie's ending in and of itself
precludes ANY other sequels, yet two were made, HL2 being the dirtiest
piece of trash the Sci-Fi industry has ever come out with, and HL3 being
really just irrelevant.

Then there's the series, which though cool and expounding on the Immortal
condition more than the first slugfest...err...movie... was STILL
non-sensical because of the first. Yes the producers explain it away as an
"alternate HL timeline" but..."


>>>sfuller@******.com.au replied:
"I always thought that the series was set before the movie, meaning that
Duncan was doomed to be an also-ran in the Gathering."


>>>My response:
The way I always saw it is that the show was leading up to the time of the
first movie, the third movie happens after the second movie, and the
second movie happens after the third... and by that logic the new movie
would take place before the first movie.. dangit I'm confused.

Just my $0.02,
-- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle
Message no. 4
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 00:41:14 EDT
In a message dated 7/28/00 11:09:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sfuller@******.com.au writes:

> I always thought that the series was set before the movie, meaning that
> Duncan was doomed to be an also-ran in the Gathering. If they set the new
> sequel in the far past it could work, though no sequel could capture the
> apocalyptic edge of the original.
>
> >Syphon <~~~ doesn't even wanna mention the Highlander cartoon
>
> There is one?

Perhaps...I always liked to think that perhaps Duncan's fate was to somehow
mystically become non-Immortal for doing something very good, thus fufilling
his wish to not be a part of the game, and that Connor wins anyways...rather
painted themselves into a nice big corner with the ending of the first movie.
Yes, there was a cartoon, and it featured a "Quentin MacLeod" fighting along
side a "Ramierz" who looked and dressed exactly as the one we know, against
an all-powerful Immortal ruler of a post-apocalyptic world. Think Mad Max,
but worse than the second movie. It ran as far as I know on USA sunday
mornings for awhile, but mercifully joined The Snorks and Go-Bots (kudos to
those who remember those ancient shows) in cartoon hell.

Syphon <~~~ who has just realized the term "offical Highlander canon"

can never exist
Message no. 5
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 00:48:23 EDT
In a message dated 7/29/00 12:00:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
antithesis@**********.com writes:

> >>>My response:
> The way I always saw it is that the show was leading up to the time of the
> first movie, the third movie happens after the second movie, and the
> second movie happens after the third... and by that logic the new movie
> would take place before the first movie.. dangit I'm confused.
>
> Just my $0.02,
> -- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle

See?! See?! IT DOESN'T WORK!! :)
Nah, it's a good thought, but there's one problem; in HL3 Connor's "son" is
not his biological son, but an adopted one becuase as I recall it's made
quite clear he cannot have children still, though apparently that is indeed
part of the Prize he won in the first movie. That doesn't neccesarily make
what you're saying wrong, it may just mean the producers were not thinking,
as seems to be par for their course. An amazing franchise....great writing
(barring HL2 and 3) but one that seems to have had NO foresight put into it.
Ah well. I hope this new one is good, and can finally clear up what's going
on....I'd almost at this point rather have a somewhat shoddy reason than no
reason at all.

Syphon
Message no. 6
From: Damian Sharp zadoc@***.neu.edu
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 01:53:35 -0400 (EDT)
On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 SyphonAC@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/28/00 12:02:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sinabian@********.net writes:
>
> > Gods I miss that show! And I can't wait until the new movie comes out!
> > (which they're finally showing the previews and this one looks like it
> could
> > blow the first one out of the water!...the other two would be easy to
> > top...definitley not the best sequels in the world...)
>
> Well let's check the score....the first movie's ending in and of itself
> preculdes ANY other sequels, yet two were made, HL2 being the dirtiest peice
> of trash the Sci-Fi industry has ever come out with, and HL3 being really
> just irrelevant. Then there's the series, which though cool and expounding on
> the Immortal condition more than the first slugfest...err...movie... was
> STILL non-sensical becuase of the first. Yes the producers explain it away as
> an "alternate HL timeline" but that makes about as much sense as the
concepts
> behind Quantum Leap....hey there's another possible SR adventure
> premise....at any rate I do like Connor and Duncan together, I'd like to see
> how they explain it away, and it seems the preview I saw has small snips from
> the first movie...perhaps they actually found a logical way to connect the
> whole messy franchise....naaah....

At least for the show, they said 'Yeah, we know the Movie ended in a
rather final way, but it's cool, so let's pretend it didn't.'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Student |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't speak Latin in front of the books"
Message no. 7
From: Damian Sharp zadoc@***.neu.edu
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 02:16:15 -0400 (EDT)
On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Aristotle wrote:

> >>>Syphon said:
> Then there's the series, which though cool and expounding on the Immortal
> condition more than the first slugfest...err...movie... was STILL
> non-sensical because of the first. Yes the producers explain it away as an
> "alternate HL timeline" but..."
>
> >>>sfuller@******.com.au replied:
> "I always thought that the series was set before the movie, meaning that
> Duncan was doomed to be an also-ran in the Gathering."
>
> >>>My response:
> The way I always saw it is that the show was leading up to the time of the
> first movie, the third movie happens after the second movie, and the
> second movie happens after the third... and by that logic the new movie
> would take place before the first movie.. dangit I'm confused.

I thought it was First Movie, Third Movie, Second Movie in temporal order,
with the TV Show being the 'Alternate' world. Thus, Connor 'almost' wins
the Prize, since there's no 'active' Immortals, kills the formerly 'inert'
Immortals in the Third Movie, and then goes into the confusion some of us
acknowledge as the Second movie.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Student |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't speak Latin in front of the books"
Message no. 8
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:39:33 -0400
....at any rate I do like Connor and Duncan together, I'd like to see
>how they explain it away, and it seems the preview I saw has small snips
from
>the first movie...perhaps they actually found a logical way to connect the
>whole messy franchise....naaah....
>
>Syphon <~~~ doesn't even wanna mention the Highlander cartoon
>



Actually Connor and Duncan were together for the pilot episode of the series
and they didn't turn their backs on the whole film because in the first
couple of episodes introducing the Watchers, they actually make mention of
the Kurgan and Connor defeating him. I'd say what they did ignore was the
concept that Kurgan was the last. (which they also did for 3 but rather
poorly, saying that it was all an illusion cast by an immortal
sorcerer...::vomits:: Almost as bad as the whole friggin' Zeist idea!!!)
Message no. 9
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:48:54 -0400
>>Syphon <~~~ doesn't even wanna mention the Highlander cartoon
>
>There is one?
>
>
Unfortunately yes, and even the animation is cheezy! I didn't stick around
long enough to catch the supposed "plot" but it had a Ramirez (though I'm
not sure it's the same Ramirez) and it had Quentin MacLeod...::shakes his
head:: I don't even imagine that could work for a children's cartoon. What I
saw reminded me of a poorly-budgeted and not-very-well-thought-out G.I. Joe
ripoff...
Message no. 10
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:54:16 -0400
>The way I always saw it is that the show was leading up to the time of the
>first movie, the third movie happens after the second movie, and the
>second movie happens after the third... and by that logic the new movie
>would take place before the first movie.. dangit I'm confused.
>
>Just my $0.02,
>-- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle
>


You've got the lineup of the movies correct...but...

Here's the problem. The show is after the movie (or at least the second
season is...). When Duncan first meets Joe and discovers him to be a
Watcher, Joe shows him a database of the Watchers' information and points
out the fight between Connor and Kurgan. Not the first one...the one where
Connor took his head. "Believe me, Connor did the world a favor when he took
HIS head!" (not sure that's an exact quote but I know it's close...)
Message no. 11
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:56:55 -0400
The Snorks and Go-Bots (kudos to
>those who remember those ancient shows) in cartoon hell.
>
>Syphon <~~~ who has just realized the term "offical Highlander canon"
> can never exist
>


How could anyone ever forget the Snorks and GoBots? Though I got to see
blessed few GoBots episodes (they were the Beta to Transformers' VHS) and of
course the Snorks were basically smurfs with snorkles coming out of their
heads...


And now you know...
Message no. 12
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:00:53 -0400
>Ah well. I hope this new one is good, and can finally clear up what's going
>on....I'd almost at this point rather have a somewhat shoddy reason than no
>reason at all.
>
>Syphon
>
>


Their first and biggest mistake was underestimating the potential for the
immortal concept. I don't think they expected to make it past the first
movie so they gave the story a definite end. Then, as always, Hollywood
wanted more. Enter Highlander 2. Now somewhere along the lines (before 2?
not sure...) came the series, and the guy who came up with the idea did it
right there. He just ignored the last 5 minutes of the movie... "Okay,
Kurgan wasn't the last. He didn't need to be for there to have been the
great climactic <sp?!?> fight at the end. The game continues..." The
movies on the other hand, who did what they bloody well pleased (the guy - I
can't think of his name - was never pleased with the whole Zeist thing, and
you can even buy "renegade" versions of the film where every mention of the
planet is omitted...), blew it!
Message no. 13
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:25:33 EDT
In a message dated 7/31/00 11:10:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sinabian@********.net writes:

> Now somewhere along the lines (before 2?
> not sure...) came the series, and the guy who came up with the idea did it
> right there. He just ignored the last 5 minutes of the movie...

Yes, but actually the first two movies were before the series, the thrid
during it's run...so that's why the third is better than the second...they
wanted to try and connect it to the series
Message no. 14
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:32:54 -0400
>during it's run...so that's why the third is better than the second...they
>wanted to try and connect it to the series
>
>
>

That and the complete and total lack of mention of any lame alien planets
with cheezy names...::grinz::
Message no. 15
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:46:27 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: James Mick <sinabian@********.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1


>Their first and biggest mistake was underestimating the potential for the
>immortal concept. I don't think they expected to make it past the first
>movie so they gave the story a definite end.

I think it is more that the whole plot of the movie made it self-enclosed.
The story was about a race of immortals who have reached their apocalypse in
modern (15 years ago) days. There are only a few left, and they are driven
to fight eachother almost against their will. The last one standing will
gain omnisciense and the ability to grow old and sow the oats and other
stuff. It just plain wouldn't have worked if they left in a caveat in case
they wanted a sequel.
Star Wars has now opened the way for a sequel that is really a prequel, and
it doesn't even have to include any of the original cast. Mr Lambert is
getting a bit old to be an immortal anyway, and Mr Connery would be too
expensive.
Message no. 16
From: Andrew Gryphon webmaster@*********.com
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 02:17:04 -0500
on 8/1/00 9:56 AM, James Mick at sinabian@********.net e-scribed:

> How could anyone ever forget the Snorks and GoBots? Though I got to see
> blessed few GoBots episodes (they were the Beta to Transformers' VHS) and of
> course the Snorks were basically smurfs with snorkles coming out of their
> heads...

Oh, come on! Gobots were the WinDOS to Transformers Macintosh! The way they
transformed was pathetic (like 2 flips) and the names: Leader-1 and Cy-Kill?

--
Andrew Gryphon
http://www.Wyrmworks.com
Taking Role-Playing to the next level
Message no. 17
From: Andrew Gryphon webmaster@*********.com
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 02:24:08 -0500
on 7/28/00 11:48 PM, SyphonAC@***.com at SyphonAC@***.com e-scribed:

> See?! See?! IT DOESN'T WORK!! :)
> Nah, it's a good thought, but there's one problem; in HL3 Connor's "son" is
> not his biological son, but an adopted one becuase as I recall it's made
> quite clear he cannot have children still, though apparently that is indeed
> part of the Prize he won in the first movie. That doesn't neccesarily make
> what you're saying wrong, it may just mean the producers were not thinking,
> as seems to be par for their course. An amazing franchise....great writing
> (barring HL2 and 3) but one that seems to have had NO foresight put into it.
> Ah well. I hope this new one is good, and can finally clear up what's going
> on....I'd almost at this point rather have a somewhat shoddy reason than no
> reason at all.

Since I've never seen any but the first movie (deliberately avoided the
cartoon & just never got around to the others), I'd use the 1st movie as the
basis of my rules, although I'm saving Bull's "Real" rules.

--
Andrew Gryphon
http://www.Wyrmworks.com
Taking Role-Playing to the next level
Message no. 18
From: Bull bull@***********.com
Subject: [OT] Highlander Shadowrun Rules v0.1
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 00:51:37 -0400
At 02:24 AM 8/3/00 -0500, Andrew Gryphon wrote:
>
>Since I've never seen any but the first movie (deliberately avoided the
>cartoon & just never got around to the others), I'd use the 1st movie as the
>basis of my rules, although I'm saving Bull's "Real" rules.
>
To be honest, I've seen all 3 movies, though it's been quite a while since
I saw H3 (I did pick up the H1&2 Director's Cuts ina 2-pack recently).
I've seen MOST of the Highlander TV series at one point or another (Though
it's been awhile since I've really watched it, so a lot of it is a bit
fuzzy), and I never watched the lame-ass cartoon :]

However, I'm mostly using bits from H1 and the TV series for my rules,
outside of a few of the "poosible theories" that my Watcher character posed
in the Intro part of the rules. In fact, that's the biggest reason I made
them pseudo-Adepts, was because of H1 (and a little bit of H3): The deer
scene (Yeah yeah, I know Conner hadn't killed anyone yet to gain any
powers... Byte me :)) which I'd interperate to be boosted attribute:
quickness, and the whole Sorcery aspect that H3 added into the mix (Can you
say Magician's Path Adept? :))

<shurg> It's very much a compilation of stuff, and unfortunately, as I
(and a few others :)) have said before.,.. The whole Highlander series was
never very good about continuity. It's one thing to have the Movies and
Series contradict each other, but... Even the series will contraditc
itself a bit from Episode to episode.

<shrug>

Bull


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