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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jason Lantrip)
Subject: [OT] in defense of the devil
Date: Fri Sep 14 11:15:00 2001
On Friday, September 14, 2001 7:45 AM, Jonathan [SMTP:jhogan@**********.nf.net]
wrote:
> That's what makes me sick. So I'm sorry if I'm bashing your bloodthirst but
> I hate war and I hate violence. And violence only begets more violence. It
> has NEVER solved anything, in most cases its only made it worse.

I'm not exactly a fan of war and violence myself, but I can guarantee you that
I am capable of fighting with or without weapons and have some basic ideas of
combat tactics. I would never initiate an attack on someone, but...you know
what? I'm more than capable of defending myself and my own. And that's exactly
what we're talking about here.

We're not talking about just invading a foreign country, we're talking about
invading a place whose government harbors (and trains) terrorists. We're
talking about a government who has "threatened retaliation by 'other means'" if
they're attacked, yet they deny that they support terrorism.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010914/ts/att
ack_afghan_dc_2.html <-- There's the link, by the way.

Let me ask you this: If violence is not an answer to this situation, how will
it be resolved?

>From my point of view, no retaliation would mean that we have rolled over and
accepted terror and terrorism as our masters. Should we do whatever these
people want because we're in fear of what they might do to our families, our
friends?

I'm not talking about nationalities, here. I'm not talking about religions. I'm
just talking about people. For people who abhor war to be able to live the
lives that they wish to lead, there must be those who are willing to use
violence to *prevent* more violence.

There must be soldiers, to protect your families and ways of life.

There must be policemen, willing to put their lives on the line to stop
criminals who are willing to use violence to get what they want.
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mark Abbott)
Subject: [OT] in defense of the devil
Date: Fri Sep 14 11:30:01 2001
>On Friday, September 14, 2001 7:45 AM, Jonathan
>[SMTP:jhogan@**********.nf.net]
>wrote:
>> That's what makes me sick. So I'm sorry if I'm bashing your bloodthirst but
>> I hate war and I hate violence. And violence only begets more violence. It
>> has NEVER solved anything, in most cases its only made it worse.

The Allied invasion of Europe didn't end the holocaust then? I too hate
war and I too hate violence, but sometimes they are, nevertheless, the only
available choices. Your position takes a moral high ground which, while it
sounds good, ignores the basic realities of human nature.

Mark
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: [OT] in defense of the devil
Date: Fri Sep 14 12:55:01 2001
> The Allied invasion of Europe didn't end the holocaust then?

It ended a terrible war. But the holocaust is still felt even today. The
actions commited against the Jewish people during that time will be burned
into peoples memories for as long as history can be remembered.

> I too hate
> war and I too hate violence, but sometimes they are, nevertheless, the
only
> available choices. Your position takes a moral high ground which, while
it
> sounds good, ignores the basic realities of human nature.
>
> Mark
>

Eh there are always choices other than violence and hatred. They might not
be pretty or seem the most appealing but they do exist. :)

In any case like everyone else here I have my own beliefs and way of looking
at situations. Are they any more wrong or right than anyone elses? No I
think not. They differ but then again I am not you or they...be a pretty
boring place if we all shared views and beliefs no? ;)

Further Reading

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!